If you had choice....

First topic message reminder :

If you had a choice, which single part of Murray's game would you change and how would it make his Grand Slam dream come true ?

The poll reflects posters opinions so far, please feel free to inform me of any add ons or re-wording you think should go on the list.

Its multi choice, so you choose as many as you wish, but try to think which are or is the most important and try to restrict your choices to 1 or 2 picks.
You will be able to change your vote too, if something alters your opinion later.

Might be interesting to see how this pans out.

Jubbahey wrote:Well, that was quite unexpected, Murray losing in that way, but its stumped this articles pretence of finding just what makes his game unreliable.

Didnt see the match so can't comment, but the score doesn't look good on paper, seems like this consistency thing and his 1st serve went out the window.

Just what this brings to the table in terms of reasons for his quick demise at the hands of Belucci is debatable, but something is wrong when he plays like this, didn't look even close, anyone see the match ?

Hi Jubba,

I only caught glimpses of the match but there are some interesting comments on this thread

Solerina

So what do you peeps think now, having gone hot/cold/hot to beat Malisse in a rather unconvincing manner.

Bouts of flair, mixed with periods of complete madness, how do you see your selections now ?

Yep, if that match proved anything, he definetly needs the handlebar, and fast.

So...only 7% were right! Murray needs a better FH. Once/if he has that, he will have he confidence and mental mindset to win a slam.

Murray is strong mentally. he had done very well already without having a deadly weapon.

Tenez, his forehand is not that deficient he can do a lot of damage with the shot. In 2009 when he surged to #2 in the world he was ripping the flat forehand. Is the forehand as good Rafa, Del Po, or Fed; no it isn't but Murray has other areas and other weapons better than those guys. To me he is the least poised and resilient of all the current greats of the game. He has a great tournament and then a tough loss and goes into the tank. After the AO he lost straight sets, in back to back matches against 2 players not even ranked in the top 100. This to me shows that he suffered too much mentally and hadn't let go of the grandslam final loss to Djoko. You don't go from grandslam finalist to getting straight setted twice in a row by guys not ranked in the top 100 in next week because you all of sudden forget how to play or because you haven't deficient technical ability.

Agree with socal.

If he has one problem (technical wise) it's that first serve!

Still to erratic, when it's on he usually plays well and wins.

Because his second serve again is not the best then it's critical that he gets it right.

Sometimes I think that he is spoilt for choice by having a variety of other shots which can confuse him at times, but a lot of players would probably "die" to have that luxury.

Tenez wrote:So...only 7% were right! Murray needs a better FH. Once/if he has that, he will have he confidence and mental mindset to win a slam.

Murray is strong mentally. he had done very well already without having a deadly weapon.

Have to disagree about him being strong mentally. I think it's his biggest weakness. He's got a lot of fight when he wants to, but mentally, once he's gone thats it.

Sportslover, King Beer, a perfect example of the difference is when Djokovic lost a double break lead in the first set of his final with Nadal at Madrid. The crowd was against him, he had just blown a double break lead which is virtually unheard of on the ATP. He promptly rebroke Nadal two service games later and took the set. Could you imagine Andy murray giving up a two break advantage to Nadal and still keeping it together mentally to win the match? I know he has come back from 2 sets down before against Gasquet at wimby, but he is too up and down, and too easily rattled.

Agree,

How many times has Murray gone a double break down and just thrown the set, lost it 6-1 and regrouped? You'll find it's alot.

I like Murray, he's British and i'll support him, but for me he lacks the mental toughness to ever win a GS. He needs a tough coach around him that will take him by the scruff of the neck and kick that petulant side out of his game.

King Beer, I am bit more positive I think Andy will win a slam or two. But only, only if he can develop maturity and mental toughness that we haven't seen him replicate. He gets tight, he gets too upset when things don't go his way. Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are better than Murray because they are better competitors and match players. Andy Murray has weapons. One of the top 5 backhands in the game and one of the top 5 returns in the game. He has great feel at net. He is blazing fast and over 6'3 in height. His first serve can top a 130mph. Yes his second serve is weaker than it should be and his forehand should be more consistent. But name a grandslam champion in the past that hasn't had some weaknesses to his game? Who has more shots Andy murray or michael chang? Who has more power Andy murray or Mats Wilander? Connors dominated the game and he was 5 foot ten and had some of the ugliest strokes in history. But the guy was a pitbull. Andy needs discipline and maturity, a big name disciplinarian coach will help him a great deal. When Andy yells at the box, just once I'd like his coach to yell back "Shut up and play"

How can someone who has beaten Nadal twice in slams semis, at a relatively young age, can be called wanting on the mental side? He has also beaten all other top players convincingly at times....and that, let;s be honest, without a big weapon!

Had Murray had a FH, he would have beaten Nadal at the last O2 semi and certainly woudl have taken a set in the last 2 slam finals he played.

You know you have a weak FH when Nadal chooses to play your FH more often than your BH...which he did at the O2.

Tenez wrote:How can someone who has beaten Nadal twice in slams semis, at a relatively young age, can be called wanting on the mental side? He has also beaten all other top players convincingly at times....and that, let;s be honest, without a big weapon!

Had Murray had a FH, he would have beaten Nadal at the last O2 semi and certainly woudl have taken a set in the last 2 slam finals he played.

You know you have a weak FH when Nadal chooses to play your FH more often than your BH...which he did at the O2.

How can a player with no weapons beat Nadal twice in a grandslam? Maybe Nadal played Andy's forehand because his backhand is so strong. Murray is currently #3 in the ATP in break percentage. Return of serve is probably as important a weapon as you can have in tennis. He also hits a fair number of aces and gets good mph on the serve, the second serve I admit is a little poor but he tends to hit that serve worse when he is not there mentally or lacking in confidence. Tenez, please answer this one question, (and not with another question which is how you usually answer questions) how do you explain murray's post australia swoons? Did all of sudden after a single week Andy lose his technical ability or could his post Australia swoon have been mainly psychological?

Hi all - difficult to fathom isn't it ! Didn't see the game against Malisse yesterday, but the score of 6-2, 2-6, 6-3 is all too familiar.

Were his winning sets of -2 & -3 actually closer than the scores suggest ?

Or was he relatively comfortable and went into one of his mid-match (-set) meltdowns ? How did 1st % vary throughout ?

On a side note, considering Djoko's current form perhaps Murray should realise he has no reason to feel bad about the AO final...

Exiled, Andy should never feel bad about any loss, nor should any top pro. You just forget the loss and work on getting better next time. A tennis player has to really focus on the very immediate future, and when I say immediate I mean like the next shot he is about to hit. Yes you want to work on areas that need improving or new tactics against players that give you trouble. The most important point or shot for a tennis player is the one you are currently playing, nothing else really exists. You need to have a thick skin and short term memory. Not that you don't work on mistakes or technical flaws you just shouldn't dwell on the score or history, or big losses. Nor should you get to high on yourself when things go well either.

Hi Socal - I couldn't agree more. Looking at his performances after the last two AO finals though he clearly does. And arguably during his performance in those finals.

He's very close to winning a GS, little doubt, and I really hope he does.

Perhaps if he logs onto 606v2 we could become his virtual coaching team ? For a small % of winnings of course

exiledscotinwhales wrote:

Perhaps if he logs onto 606v2 we could become his virtual coaching team ?

Now that's an excellent idea

Solerina

Tenez wrote:How can someone who has beaten Nadal twice in slams semis, at a relatively young age, can be called wanting on the mental side? He has also beaten all other top players convincingly at times....and that, let;s be honest, without a big weapon!

Had Murray had a FH, he would have beaten Nadal at the last O2 semi and certainly woudl have taken a set in the last 2 slam finals he played.

You know you have a weak FH when Nadal chooses to play your FH more often than your BH...which he did at the O2.

I have to agree with Tenez on this point, if Murray had had a far better FH and the confidence to go with it, he would have beaten Roddick at Wimbledon in that semi-final and gone to the final with much more attitude and determination.

I think we have to be careful not to make "Mental weakness" a byword for everything that includes eg: loss of focus....loss of confidence....loss of concentration...loss of willpower....loss of courage and some others probably.

For me, Murray weakness is his ability to throw focus out the window, and if anything proves this, it was his comment about the last set and his aces against Malisse...""I hit three aces in the last game because I focused right from the beginning," said Murray. "It makes life much easier for myself."

Lesson learnt ???..probably not !

Exiled, as far as I remember, his 1st serve was 50% and win % was 35.

The first set was good from Murray, except for a service loss, but he broke back quickly and again. Lost the will to live in the 2nd - all over the place, UE's breaking all known world records into oblivion, then wakes up a bit 3rd set, loses focus again but manages to hold it together, until the last 3 games really and he went into overdrive and closed the match out like it was a stroll down a country lane.

Ran away with it in the end, which he is/was/can be capable of all the time.

Jubba - worryingly that could be a generic description of a lot of AM's wins.. & also if you strike out everything from "...and he went into overdrive..." his losses as well !!!

Exiled, that's why I think it is so difficult to pin down exactly what is wrong with Murrays game.

From a statistical point of view, his losses are riddled with breakdowns of concentration, yet his wins have the same affliction, but less of them. Occasionally, he remains focused for a whole match and plays brilliantly.

Is this a sign of complete Mental Weakness or just a certain part of his mental processes ?

I've often talked about focus and it seems to me that he allows himself to shift the direction of his focus more to the peripheral areas, like the spectators or the camera's or his entourage instead of towards his game plan.

I don't think its a strategical weakness or a weakness of his courage but more a kind of "Mind Forever Voyaging" that comes down to earth now and again.

Maybe that is more a sign of genius ?

I actually think that many of Murray losses are actually atributed to physical form which of course he does his best to dissimulate.

His loss to Wawrinka at the USO was clearly a case of his physics going down. He even says it to his box: "I am done!".

Same applies to his IW and Miami losses. He says first that his moving wasn;t good...then to dissimulate that talks about mental weakness but clearly Murray wasn;t panicked cause he knew that when his legs woudl be fine, he could give Nadal a run for his money....even with an aching elbow.


Murray is strong mentally but he as a few niggling injuries which prevents him to play his best, essentially because his game is very dependant of his physical form...like Nadal and Djoko to some extend.

Tenez, you keep mentioning Djokovic as having injury and durability problems but you fail to mention that the man has had very incredible durability over the course of the last 4 or 5 seasons. Maybe the best on the tour.

2010-91 matches
2009-97 matches (led the ATp tour)
2008-81 matches
2007-86 matches

We are talking about a player who over the last 4 seasons has averaged 88.5 matches a season. Doesn't sound like someone who is injury prone in my book. I know you see your own boisterous declarations of personal opinion as facts, but Novak has been one of the most durable guys on tour and he plays a very physical game all the same.

socal

The last year or so had been OK for him but prior to that he was prone to getting MTO's for differing reasons.

He would have completed the bulk of these matches as your figures prove but didn't pick up a lot of silverware in the process.

As of now he looks a different player and long may it continue for his fans and tennis in general.

Sportslover, Djokovic is a guy who really takes care of himself and he understands how important his health his. He isn't macho, if he doesn't feel right he will call the trainer, if the trainer can't help he will pull out regardless of the situation. And in my book this is smart. Many fans may like the idea of the injured player fighting through the pain to finish the match. But tennis is an individual sport you can't rely on teammates you are your own team. And Novak realizing his career is a marathon is sensitive to the little niggling injury, he pulls the plug if something minor happens that could turn into something major. This season he has played 33 matches with less than one third of the season completed, and he has withdrawn from two tournaments for rest and health purpose. In my opinion that is smart, he knows how to pace himself and if he isn't feeling right he isn't going to push himself to the point of physical breakdown to win a match or a tournament.

Hey you lot, this is a Murray thread, get yo bad-asses off me manor.

Well, what a delightful return to all things normal with our lad Andy!

Good serving, good returning, good running, good netplay good overheads and good forehands and backhands.

Was he focused or fit ?

You decide, change your poll selection accordingly.

He was both focused & fit!

Good performance and let's hope he can do it again tomorrow against Mayer.

You can do it Andy keep focused 8)

Without trying to put a spanner in the works, but how do you think Murray should handle Djokovic and which part of his game must he use to overcome Djoko to reach the final ?

Jubbahey wrote:Without trying to put a spanner in the works, but how do you think Murray should handle Djokovic and which part of his game must he use to overcome Djoko to reach the final ?

I don't know Jubba....he's got to go out there and play his best tennis and believe in himself......then he'll have a chance of winning.

I won't be able to watch the match as I'm going out to dinner, then clubbing lol, so will miss Andy and Eurovision!

Enjoy the match everyone.......come on Andy!

Solerina

Jubbahey wrote:Without trying to put a spanner in the works, but how do you think Murray should handle Djokovic and which part of his game must he use to overcome Djoko to reach the final ?

He will need to get that first serve in for a start. If that's not firing he may as well go home.

In addition, I think he should seriously consider purchasing a shotgun, a black Mercedes and some shades, and just taking him down with a drive-by. Much easier than keeping the first serve percentages high anyways...

Jubbahey wrote:Without trying to put a spanner in the works, but how do you think Murray should handle Djokovic and which part of his game must he use to overcome Djoko to reach the final ?

Cut out the long rallies, get that first serve firing, use some exquisite drop shots and job done.

Failing which spike Novaks drinks bottles. 8)

I have to agree with the 1st serve, if it falls below 55% then he'll have trouble getting a set off Novak.

Sol, why should missing the Eurovision be as good as watching Murray, albeit for the fun factor of watching an outdated, so far removed from mainstream music, self-indulgent, insipid extravaganza. Well alright, its a bit of fun and I'll be watching it at some point, just to see Jedward make a fool of themselves and Blue to get "Nil-Point"...ho ho ho.

Not looking good so far... 1-6 after the first set !

Just saw first set stats -

Murray - 1st Serve 60%, winning 50% of those
Murray - 2nd Serve wins 0% (ZERO !!!)

Its a tough ask, but at least he's serving for the 2nd set now.

Whoosh, rocket BH and 2nd set to Murray, who'd have thought that after the 1st set.

Well done ANDY - as you said earlier Jubba - "FOCUS !!!!!!!!!"

Its amazing what concentration can do for you.

69% 1sr serve in
73% 1st serve win
15 winners

Now that's better Andy, thats what you can do on a normal boring day at work.

Well that's an interesting stat I hadn't seen before:

Andy 1st serve % that Djoko did NOT return >>

1st set - 17%
2nd set - 57%

Suggests he's upped his service game a fair bit. WHY ????

Maybe slowed it down a tad to get more accuracy ??

I dot not like Murray's body language right now, sulking extraordinaire every time he loses a point.

wish he could stop doing it.

I dont know.....stops moaning, starts focusing, wins a break.

Surely he can see it now ???

Looking good ! Got the break....

0-40 oh my god, can he come back from this

Er... no !

yes he can, break back !!!!!

this is such a high quality match, should have been the final.

Jeez - come on ! Just a couple of good first serves....

djokovic just too complete.

Can Andy hold serve to play in a tie break ?? serving to stay in the match when he was serving to win.

I reckon Novak will break and seal one of his best wins on clay.

but i'm just a pessimist at heart.

Stunning shot to go 40-30 !