Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by oldshanker Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:56 am

First topic message reminder :

I agree Digs - what I was commenting on was not their lack of invention, but their lack of cohesion. They did not get the basics right, the least a back has to do is commit his opposite number, which becomes more important against the 'drift' defence, and then follow up and support. This was not happening yesterday, apart from Chris ashton on occasions.

I have not seen Goode play in his club matches, but on a number of occasions, he caught the ball deep, began to run, hesitated and then was caught without any support. I can't remember ever seeing Ben Foden caught like that. It is yet another sign of a lack of cohesion in the backs.

Of course, this probably is all due to the fact they are a relatively new squad and should come together the more they play together. But on the face of it, I think yesterday was a fair showing against a team that in my opinion is still there to be taken and will possibly only get one win in this series.

by mystiroakey Mon 01 Apr 2013, 12:52 pm

Sorry I thought You were Geordies...

Google tells me your Mackem's thumbsup

by Diggers Mon 01 Apr 2013, 6:55 pm

Just been offered two seats in a box at Stamford Bridge next week to see Di Canios first match in charge. I guess I should wear some kind of third reich merchandise to show my support for our new leader, handily Id imagine its for sale at the ground through the John Terry stall.
Got to go as haven't seen the boys this season and a box is a bit of a treat and will take the wife, but can't see anything other than a pasting to be honest.

by pedro Mon 01 Apr 2013, 9:44 pm

If he stretches his arm it's probably not to shake your hand..

by incontinentia Mon 01 Apr 2013, 10:59 pm

pedro wrote:If he stretches his arm it's probably not to shake your hand..

high 5?

by SmithersJones Tue 02 Apr 2013, 4:43 pm

Why are people so up in arms about DiCanio's political views? It's not like he's going to ban Jews from the SoL, or gas disabled Newcastle fans is it?

by Diggers Tue 02 Apr 2013, 4:47 pm

I really dont see the need for Newcastle fans to be disabled before they are gassed.

by incontinentia Tue 02 Apr 2013, 5:02 pm

Perhaps Paolo will annex Newcastle before unveiling his final solution to the Manchester problem.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Apr 2013, 5:28 pm

SmithersJones wrote:Why are people so up in arms about DiCanio's political views? It's not like he's going to ban Jews from the SoL, or gas disabled Newcastle fans is it?

Quite.

Diggers wrote:I really dont see the need for Newcastle fans to be disabled before they are gassed.

by kwinigolfer Tue 02 Apr 2013, 5:33 pm

This will all end in tears.
If DiCanio is divisive coming in, how do they expect him to galvanise a team of habitual underperformers? Can't see the Championship will hold his attention and then where will Sunderland be??
Good Lord.
Len Shackleton and Bob Stokoe rolling in their graves.

by Diggers Tue 02 Apr 2013, 7:17 pm

I agree with you Kwini, can't see any long term joy. I actually do think MON had to go, just seemed to have lost his motivation and I really couldn't see where the next result was coming from.
Re the point relating to Di Canios politics they aren't really relevant but historically Sunderland has very strong socialist ties as the mines and ship yards and their unions were a huge part of the clubs history. All a long time ago but some people care about that sort of thing. I'm more bothered that he seems like a rambling nutter who is a complete loose cannon. The part of the press conference when he said he would work 26 hours a day as more than 24 were needed. Give me strength.

by JAS Tue 02 Apr 2013, 10:19 pm

I'm not so sure Sunderland have got it right on both counts. Man U could easily and justifiably (on todays criteria) have sacked SAF 2 years into his Man U tenure. Nobody would have batted an eyelid and the whole of the last 20 odd years would have been very very different in the premiership.

Di Canio is definitely a loose cannon but to be fair he did do a good job at Swindon. Having said that Swindon to Sunderland is a huge step up in terms of expectation and the amount of scrutiny he will encounter. He could end up doing a great job but I suspect it will all come to a calamitous end.

The whole political thing is media mischief making...what business is it of anyone? We live in a supposedly free democracy where people are entitled to their views....does that only apply as long as everyone agrees with what the media decree is acceptable? As for Milliband...why is it even news that he's resigned as a Director of Sunderland...who paid to get that story promoted then??

by pedro Tue 02 Apr 2013, 11:32 pm

We all know that it's political correct to be a communist, but not a fascist. Di Canio doesn't care, kudos to him for that. However: footballer's (and golfer's!) religious and political views are best kept at home!

by Roller_Coaster Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:41 am

I like PDiC's managerial ethos and the football, commitment and discipline he demands. However, I think lower league footballers will be easier to take along than the kinds of attitudes more prevalent in the top flight.

Political views shouldn't come into it from a professional perspective, it is a free country, but relatively extreme views allied to a refusal to clarify to the media and the subsequent sh*tstorm they are manufacturing could hamper anything they want to achieve on the field.

The resignation of Milliband, however, is IMO purely to garner the Union support he didn't have in the leadership election for his inevitable return to politics after a couple of years helping Piers Morgan as a PA (or whatever it is that the slimy little so and so has slunk off to do).

If it works then Sunderland could move forward (might even become a top 15 club... Run

) but joking aside I think he'll struggle to get his own way in the top flight and so they will. As a QPR fan I am hoping for miracles anyway so I hope he takes over at Villa/Wigan/Reading simultaneously as well as Sunderland. Even then I think we're too bad to stay up!

by lorus59 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:32 am

I think Sunderland's main problem is the lack of quality in the squad. How many of these players would be wanted by other Premier League clubs? Not many is my guess.

by Roller_Coaster Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:52 am

Maybe (somewhat ironically given Sunderland's position) the keepers. Mignolet and Westwood are pretty good I think. Adam Johnson has talent (if he bothered to try consistently) and possibly Sessegnon. McLean has looked useful (if not good) and when I've seen him he does seem to put the required shift in

I like Wickham and Graham up front, but agree that PL teams probably wouldn't want them. Maybe Wickham in a couple of years, but not now.

IMO nobody above 12th would want any of them though. Pretty poor out of a full squad

by gaelgowfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 12:35 pm

Is the judge who dealt with the Tevez case a Man City fan, I wonder?

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 12:37 pm

I'm amazed Milliband gets more grief for resigning, he had to and he'd done good work for Sunderland with the local community when he was there, than PDC gets for being a pretty blatant fascist and having tattoos paying homage to a man who was in cahoots with one of the most evil men in history.
I find that a bit bizarre.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 12:49 pm

Re the squad, nobody picked Sunderland to go down at the start of the season, hindsight is a wonderful thing I guess.

by McLaren Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:06 pm

Heres the thing about beliefs, you do of course have a right to hold them but you do not have a right to have them respected. Even the mildest form of fascism is unacceptable in terms of treating your fellow men in a humane fashion.

I dont care who you are or what you have been appointed to do but if you hold such cruel beliefs - as fascism - you should be given as much grief as possible over them. I include not being given a job in this.

by Roller_Coaster Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:18 pm

I don't think I've seen Milliband get too much grief over it but I haven't read widely on it tbh. I just think he's only resigned to serve himself and not for the stated reasons. Pure opinion on my part.

Nor do I sypathise with PDiC's political views if he is of the facist persuasion. Although if he were truely facist it is totally incongruous for him to be against immigration into Italy whilst being an immigrant in the UK. Sporting a Mussolini tattoo however is IMO plain stupidity and I don't care about the folly of youth (if he was young when he got it?), he is supposed to be an intelligent man and if he couldn't see (at any age) that that gesture could only be divisive then more fool him.

If Sunderland tank, go down, lose fans etc he'll get abused and ultimately booted. Similarly if they stay up, play better and do well fickle fans will chant his name and claim never to have been in the camp that said anytrhing bad about him.

It is all a bit bizarre - but only in the spotlight because of Sunderlands (current) PL position.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:26 pm

How could be possible not resign, his position was untenable especially considering what a horlicks Sunderlands PR team had made of the while thing . I seriously doubt it has anything to do with winning the sympathies of the unions , that ship has well and truly sailed and if anything he has moved close to the centre of the party as his brother had gone left.
As much as anything he has resigned from a lot of boards he was on to go and do his new job in the States so I suspect it was going to happen anyway.
I really don't think on this instance any kind of blame or self interest can be held against Milliband.

by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:30 pm

At Chelsea
At Newcastle
Home: Everton
At Villa
Home: Stoke
Home: Saints
At Tottenham

Can't realistically expect them to get much more than 1 pt on the road, 5 pts at home if they're lucky?

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:35 pm

The Newcastle game is wide open , they are in trouble as well and all form goes our if the window for a derby , that's a massive game.
I think maybe 8-9 points is possible and would be enough, but highly unlikely, especially considering we have won just 2 points in 24.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:42 pm

McLaren wrote:Heres the thing about beliefs, you do of course have a right to hold them but you do not have a right to have them respected. Even the mildest form of fascism is unacceptable in terms of treating your fellow men in a humane fashion.

I dont care who you are or what you have been appointed to do but if you hold such cruel beliefs - as fascism - you should be given as much grief as possible over them. I include not being given a job in this.

Ironically, I'd class the bleating and shouting that DiCanio shouldn't get anywhere near a job with Sunderland somewhat fascistic. Where were the bleeding liberal journalists a few years ago when he took over at Swindon? Nowhere and I'd suggest that lack of interest back then means they have no ground to stand on now.

I'm sure Voltaire would be raising his eyebrows somewhat at the idiotic responses we've seen on this.

by super_realist Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:50 pm

Didn't Capello praise Franco?

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:03 pm

At least none if then have come out in support of Fat Dave, not that would be extreme views.

by super_realist Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:14 pm

Fat Franky Lampard declared himself a Tory.

by mystiroakey Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:23 pm

Lampard fat -lulz

by McLaren Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:42 pm

Frank Lampard signs children's book deal

I sh1t you not.

by Roller_Coaster Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:44 pm

Newcastle game is wide open (and Geordies not exactly setting the world alight) possibly 6 at home.

ie - way more than my struggling idiots will gather in their remaining debacles

by Roller_Coaster Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:45 pm

"Frank Lampard signs Children's book?"

"Deal!"

by raycastleunited Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

lorus59 wrote:I think Sunderland's main problem is the lack of quality in the squad. How many of these players would be wanted by other Premier League clubs? Not many is my guess.

History shows that a perceived lack of quality isn't necessarily that important, look at West Brom and Swansea. If they were performing well a lot of teams would snap them up.

The QPR squad is packed with quality, with loads of players who would not look out of place at a top six club, yet the performances are consistently a shambles. Arsenal would love to have a keeper like Julio Cesar, strikers like Remy and Zamora. I'd even go so far as to say that they could do with Bosingwa and Fabio when they bother to play. I would have added Samba to this list, but not after Monday night's comical defending. picard

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:37 pm

Seems harsh to judge Lamps for just writing a book rather than for being judged on how good the book is. And trust me not everyone can write kids books, Ice read far more than Id ever want to and the good ones are obvious to adults and kids.
Maybe his are pants but at least judge the book not the fact he's written one.

by super_realist Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:04 pm

Sure it will be ghost written, even though Lampard is one of the brighter footballers. Most will never have read a book, far less written one.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:11 pm

As far as I can gather its definitely not ghost written, all his own work.
It's a bit dumb to assume just because someone plays football they can't have other abilities Super.

by super_realist Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:24 pm

I wasn't necesarily saying that Diggers, sounds easy to write a childrens book, but probably more difficult than writing for adults. Sure he's had a considerable amount of help though. Talented footballer, but unlikely to be able to write a book of publishable standard straight off the bat though

by SmithersJones Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:27 pm

There are precedents for celebrity children's book authors with no previous writing experience. Fergie springs to mind, with Budgie the Helicopter.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:32 pm

Who knows how many drafts he did , he has plenty of time on his side.
Maybe he had some help but I don't see why he should be damned from the outset pretty much just because he is a footballer. He is also apparently incredibly driven and ambitious so I doubt he'd do anything they would leave him open to ridicule.
Posh Spice was a pop star but has made a massive success of her clothing line, sure the name helps but apparently again she's very hands on and the clothes are critically acclaimed.
We slag off dolites for doing nothing but also have a pop at these sorts of people who are investing energy on a lot of different things. It's not like Lampard needs the cash and very few kids books make much money.
A bit of slack needs to be cut sometimes I think.

by mystiroakey Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:39 pm

Yep for sure diggs

by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:51 pm

If Lampard's effort gets one more child to read one more book it's worthwhile . . . .

Meanwhile, looks like DiCanio's every utterance digs a deeper hole for him.
Shouldn't he just stfu and starting managing a football team?
Good luck to him, if only because it would be sad to see Sunders back in the Championship. 40,000 fans don't deserve it even if the club's management maybe does.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 4:58 pm

To be fair Kwini Short has done pretty well so far. Bruce had to go, the fans hated him as a Geordie and we played carp football with him, but he had a good run. For me MON had to walk as well, sometimes despite everything looking like a good fit things just don't work out. Also the board has made huge efforts to integrate the club with the community and that's to be commended.
The only real error is Di Canio for me, but I guess from a footballing perspective we need to also cut him some slack.
Also the championship isn't the end of the world, being a Premier League club is a tad overrated I think.

by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 5:28 pm

Digs,
Certainly wouldn't quibble with appointment of Bruce or O'neill but seriously question whether making the decision now makes any sense, regardless of new manager.

But the bigger picture is Sunderland and entering its seventh decade as a nearly team - I first saw them in the fifties, Stan Anderson and Charlie Hurley, possibly a young Montgomery but can't be sure.
And that was after the Shack era and the best team that money could buy - or not.

Apart from the Wembley miracle, there's forty or fifty thousand fans, generation after generation, who've been promised so much only to see so little delivered.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 5:42 pm

An awful lot of clubs you can say that about though. We have never been a fashionable club for decades, always hard to get big names to Wearside.
It's not like Bruce or Keane or MON haven't had money to spend, as did Reid before them. Just hasn't worked out.
Right now lets face it the EPL is two leagues anyway , can't really see how we could ever crack the top 6 without risking going bust. Sad but true.

by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 5:46 pm

True enough, but most of the second-rate Prem clubs have half Sunders' fan base.

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 5:57 pm

Aye, its tough being a Mackem.

by JAS Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:41 pm

Diggers wrote: can't really see how we could ever crack the top 6 without risking going bust. Sad but true.

The sad state of the game now Diggs...Leeds tried it and look what happened to them. In Europe Dortmund and Fiorentina amongst others have been dragged through the administration mire after investing to compete at the highest level and missing the boat. Last but not least my beloved Rangers have been humbled over stretching themselves trying to gain a seat at the top table of European football. Football is now grotesquely distorted by finance. Sunderland, like Rangers have a huge fanbase but TV revenue now dwarfs gate receipts and merchandising so a big fanbase has become a bit irrelevant. NO team, anywhere in Europe now can scale the heights and become a fixture at the top unless they belong to one of the big leagues AND have an Oligarchial benefactor. At least Sunderland have 1 of the 2

by Hibbz Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:04 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Digs,
Certainly wouldn't quibble with appointment of Bruce or O'neill but seriously question whether making the decision now makes any sense, regardless of new manager.

But the bigger picture is Sunderland and entering its seventh decade as a nearly team - I first saw them in the fifties, Stan Anderson and Charlie Hurley, possibly a young Montgomery but can't be sure.
And that was after the Shack era and the best team that money could buy - or not.

Apart from the Wembley miracle, there's forty or fifty thousand fans, generation after generation, who've been promised so much only to see so little delivered.

Behave Kwini their fans are about as die hard as the Geordies. This
North East hotbed crap is a myth. Have a look at Sunderland's average
gate when they haven't been in the top league. From early eighties to
late nineties with a couple of exceptions they were below 20,000.
Compare that to Man City when they were crap. Or even Forest who despite
being pony for years now always average the same give or take.

by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:53 pm

Well, let's just say their upsides is considerably greater than most.
(Very surprised Middlesboro's gates have been so pitiful - another change coming up there you'd think.)

by mystiroakey Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:56 pm

Forrest are on a good run. Its not all about the PL..

by Diggers Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:08 pm

Since the SOL opened in 97 I doubt we have averaged much below 30k a season whatever league we were in.
Boro have always had crap crowds its true, Sunderland and Newcastle don't drop off in the same way.
Most crowds in the 80's were dropping , especially in the lower leagues. Sunderland would still always be near the top end of crowds of whatever division they were in.

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