It's a worry isn't it?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Seems to be a bad year for legends in their own fields............

Armstrong highly respected...............and now this guy embraced by the Athletic community.......

Always happens in threes............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never suggested it was.........

DAVE667 wrote:There's a number of issues to contend with. We can't overlook the dubious nature of the SA legal system, you have the crime itself, the implied history of domestic incidents but then you have Oscar's star status coupled with his "disability" tag.

Is this going to be another OJ three ring circus?

Seanusarrilius wrote:Maybe Dave, but remember she was a star in her own right. I think he will be convicted if he is guilty (which reports suggest he is).

DAVE667 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Maybe Dave, but remember she was a star in her own right. I think he will be convicted if he is guilty (which reports suggest he is).

Was she? You'll have to forgive my ignorance but I'd never heard of her (along with a huge chunk of the other 7 billion people on the planet I've never heard of)

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Has South Africa really moved on........I know of a few people over here who fled their mansions because of the shoot and grab that's going on in places like Johannesbourg......Sons and daughters that have been sent over here because of the deteriorating situation.

Always a problem when the inmates take over the asylum......George Orwell was very astute..

Why we screwed up in Libya, Iraq and how we could again in Syria...

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Our banks were opened up to EU and IMF scrutiny. If that happened to the British banks they would look just as bad or worse. How much of the RBS does the government own again? Because of Britain's size it has been able to hide the problems more easily. That and a bit of quantitive easing because Britain controls it's own currency. Irish wages on average are still a lot higher than British wages.

If Britain was in the pink I would gladly accept your statement but it isn't.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Our banks were opened up to EU and IMF scrutiny. If that happened to the British banks they would look just as bad or worse. How much of the RBS does the government own again? Because of Britain's size it has been able to hide the problems more easily. That and a bit of quantitive easing because Britain controls it's own currency. Irish wages on average are still a lot higher than British wages.

If Britain was in the pink I would gladly accept your statement but it isn't.

You went cap in hand to the EU, and even then had to crack on before the deal was ratified you were so desperate. UK banks haven't been 'opened up' because they haven't needed to be. Ireland went on a massive asset buyback programme which has practically bankrupted the country whereas the UK went with the bail-out option.

Irish wages aren't higher on a PPP basis and the country is suffering a re-emergence of pre ‘Celtic-tiger’ brain drain, which’ll further hamper the economy’s attempt to arrest and then reverse the continued technical recession, especially as unemployment continues to increase qoq (now 13.5%) compared to qoq decreases in the UK (now 7.7%) for a year now. Our housing market is also largely recovered, having pushed past pre-recession levels in some areas, whereas Ireland’s is so fooked developments are being bulldozed and real estate can’t be given away.

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Our banks were opened up to EU and IMF scrutiny. If that happened to the British banks they would look just as bad or worse. How much of the RBS does the government own again? Because of Britain's size it has been able to hide the problems more easily. That and a bit of quantitive easing because Britain controls it's own currency. Irish wages on average are still a lot higher than British wages.

If Britain was in the pink I would gladly accept your statement but it isn't.

You went cap in hand to the EU, and even then had to crack on before the deal was ratified you were so desperate. UK banks haven't been 'opened up' because they haven't needed to be. Ireland went on a massive asset buyback programme which has practically bankrupted the country whereas the UK went with the bail-out option.

Irish wages aren't higher on a PPP basis and the country is suffering a re-emergence of pre ‘Celtic-tiger’ brain drain, which’ll further hamper the economy’s attempt to arrest and then reverse the continued technical recession, especially as unemployment continues to increase qoq (now 13.5%) compared to qoq decreases in the UK (now 7.7%) for a year now. Our housing market is also largely recovered, having pushed past pre-recession levels in some areas, whereas Ireland’s is so fooked developments are being bulldozed and real estate can’t be given away.

Funny I remember the British government falling over itself to lend Ireland €7 billion because they were so afraid of the toxic debt they had in Ireland going down the drain.

If you think the British banks are not serious over stretched with bad debt you are deluded. Where's the liquidity?

As for Irish wages they are far higher than British wages. Have a look at this wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by_monthly_average_wage

A google search will provide any amount of evidence you need that the wages and standard of living are higher in Ireland than in the UK.


The brain drain argument is strange as Ireland is still a leading destination for high tech companies. Think of the global high tech leaders and most will be in Ireland.........Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc etc. Add to that Ireland is the pharmaceutical manufacturing capital of Europe. Ireland has been the 2nd biggest producer of software in the world after America, I'm not sure on the status of this right now.


Our property/construction sector was destroyed by a rogue bank that infiltrated it's way into just about every financial institution in Ireland. The government bailed them out even though they were a purely private bank. That was the mistake but things are coming around. A debt deal has been arranged to stretch out repayments. Moody's upped Ireland's credit rating yesterday.

DAVE667 wrote:Don't think he's been bailed has he? I thought it was simply put back til tomorrow therefore they'd be keeping him in custody surely?

jimdig wrote:I live in Ireland. It's sh1t.

seanmichaels wrote:

Strongy, would love to hear your thought's on the #irish governments corporation tax policy? The big banks didn't go there for the view.

superflyweight wrote:To quote Alan Partridge:

"I think the Irish are going through a major image change. I mean, the old image of Leprechauns, shamrock, Guinness, horses running through council estates, toothless simpletons, people with eyebrows on their cheeks, badly tarmacced drives – in this country, men in platform shoes being arrested for bombings, lots of rocks, and Beamish. I think people are saying “yes, there’s more to Ireland than this”. A good slogan for the tourist board – “Dere’s more to Oireland dan dis.”

Rowley wrote:Thought you'd be happy of the responses Dave, 40 responses is more than every Bradley Pryce/Peter Jackson thread you've ever done, or indeed every thread I have ever written, apart from when I have whored myself for the populist vote and done a Lennox Lewis thread.

Strongback wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

Strongy, would love to hear your thought's on the #irish governments corporation tax policy? The big banks didn't go there for the view.

It's been proven that in Germany and France multinational companies pay way less that 10% corporation tax.

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Our banks were opened up to EU and IMF scrutiny. If that happened to the British banks they would look just as bad or worse. How much of the RBS does the government own again? Because of Britain's size it has been able to hide the problems more easily. That and a bit of quantitive easing because Britain controls it's own currency. Irish wages on average are still a lot higher than British wages.

If Britain was in the pink I would gladly accept your statement but it isn't.

You went cap in hand to the EU, and even then had to crack on before the deal was ratified you were so desperate. UK banks haven't been 'opened up' because they haven't needed to be. Ireland went on a massive asset buyback programme which has practically bankrupted the country whereas the UK went with the bail-out option.

Irish wages aren't higher on a PPP basis and the country is suffering a re-emergence of pre ‘Celtic-tiger’ brain drain, which’ll further hamper the economy’s attempt to arrest and then reverse the continued technical recession, especially as unemployment continues to increase qoq (now 13.5%) compared to qoq decreases in the UK (now 7.7%) for a year now. Our housing market is also largely recovered, having pushed past pre-recession levels in some areas, whereas Ireland’s is so fooked developments are being bulldozed and real estate can’t be given away.

Funny I remember the British government falling over itself to lend Ireland €7 billion because they were so afraid of the toxic debt they had in Ireland going down the drain. We lent money because your economy was in the sh!t and we were exposed to it, that doesn’t remotely support your argument.

If you think the British banks are not serious over stretched with bad debt you are deluded. Where's the liquidity? Never said they were in ship-shape, liquidity is improving (look at consistent lending growth) but poor because they’re rebuilding balance sheets and absurdly risk-averse (needs stronger action from the gov’t), but let’s not make out they’re in worse shape than the Irish banks! Absolute nonsense.

As for Irish wages they are far higher than British wages. Have a look at this wiki page. Did you miss the bit about PPP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by_monthly_average_wage

A google search will provide any amount of evidence you need that the wages and standard of living are higher in Ireland than in the UK. First google search I did last night actually didn’t. And in response to your riposte to jimdig who testifies to the difficulty of Irish life at the moment, of course it’s ok if you’ve got a nice cushy job. That’d be like me saying the whole of England is fine because there’s still bucket loads of people in London earning a packet. Our swanky over-priced restaurants are full to the brim every night of the week and need booking weeks in advance but what relevance is that to all the people in the regions that are struggling to get by??! An unemployment rate of 13.5% does not evidence everything being fine and dandy in Ireland.


The brain drain argument is strange as Ireland is still a leading destination for high tech companies. Think of the global high tech leaders and most will be in Ireland.........Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc etc. Add to that Ireland is the pharmaceutical manufacturing capital of Europe. Ireland has been the 2nd biggest producer of software in the world after America, I'm not sure on the status of this right now. ‘was’, when it was riding that gravy train. And if UK halved it’s corporation tax rates over-night they’d all move here. But we wouldn’t because our economy would be fooked.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irelands-brain-drain-at-record-level---one-Irish-person-leaves-home-every-five-minutes-171769131.html

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irelands-brain-drain-uses-up-their-quota-of-US-Canadian-and-Australian-visas-158086355.html


Our property/construction sector was destroyed by a rogue bank that infiltrated it's way into just about every financial institution in Ireland. The government bailed them out even though they were a purely private bank. That was the mistake but things are coming around. A debt deal has been arranged to stretch out repayments. Moody's upped Ireland's credit rating yesterday.

Personally I hate credit rating agencies and think they got off scott-free for being one of the principle causes of the global recession, however since you mentioned it every single one has Ireland significantly worse than the UK, what does that say about the view of the strength of the Irish economy compared to the UK? It says people think it is less capable of paying back it’s debt, hard to put a positive spin on that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/apr/30/credit-ratings-country-fitch-moodys-standard slightly old article but things have only improved slightly since then and I can’t find another table that so succinctly compares all ratings on all countries.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:Nothing cheap about those statements. American is trillions of dollars in debt and Obama still has his cap in his hand.

Ironic statement coming from an Irishman.....

Our banks were opened up to EU and IMF scrutiny. If that happened to the British banks they would look just as bad or worse. How much of the RBS does the government own again? Because of Britain's size it has been able to hide the problems more easily. That and a bit of quantitive easing because Britain controls it's own currency. Irish wages on average are still a lot higher than British wages.

If Britain was in the pink I would gladly accept your statement but it isn't.

You went cap in hand to the EU, and even then had to crack on before the deal was ratified you were so desperate. UK banks haven't been 'opened up' because they haven't needed to be. Ireland went on a massive asset buyback programme which has practically bankrupted the country whereas the UK went with the bail-out option.

Irish wages aren't higher on a PPP basis and the country is suffering a re-emergence of pre ‘Celtic-tiger’ brain drain, which’ll further hamper the economy’s attempt to arrest and then reverse the continued technical recession, especially as unemployment continues to increase qoq (now 13.5%) compared to qoq decreases in the UK (now 7.7%) for a year now. Our housing market is also largely recovered, having pushed past pre-recession levels in some areas, whereas Ireland’s is so fooked developments are being bulldozed and real estate can’t be given away.

Funny I remember the British government falling over itself to lend Ireland €7 billion because they were so afraid of the toxic debt they had in Ireland going down the drain. We lent money because your economy was in the sh!t and we were exposed to it, that doesn’t remotely support your argument.

If you think the British banks are not serious over stretched with bad debt you are deluded. Where's the liquidity? Never said they were in ship-shape, liquidity is improving (look at consistent lending growth) but poor because they’re rebuilding balance sheets and absurdly risk-averse (needs stronger action from the gov’t), but let’s not make out they’re in worse shape than the Irish banks! Absolute nonsense.

As for Irish wages they are far higher than British wages. Have a look at this wiki page. Did you miss the bit about PPP?

No I didn't. The wages are far higher in Ireland as the wiki page states. That's what I said. As you mentioned PPP throw up some figures that prove the British public have more spending power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by_monthly_average_wage

A google search will provide any amount of evidence you need that the wages and standard of living are higher in Ireland than in the UK. First google search I did last night actually didn’t. And in response to your riposte to jimdig who testifies to the difficulty of Irish life at the moment, of course it’s ok if you’ve got a nice cushy job. That’d be like me saying the whole of England is fine because there’s still bucket loads of people in London earning a packet. Our swanky over-priced restaurants are full to the brim every night of the week and need booking weeks in advance but what relevance is that to all the people in the regions that are struggling to get by??! An unemployment rate of 13.5% does not evidence everything being fine and dandy in Ireland.


The brain drain argument is strange as Ireland is still a leading destination for high tech companies. Think of the global high tech leaders and most will be in Ireland.........Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc etc. Add to that Ireland is the pharmaceutical manufacturing capital of Europe. Ireland has been the 2nd biggest producer of software in the world after America, I'm not sure on the status of this right now. ‘was’, when it was riding that gravy train. And if UK halved it’s corporation tax rates over-night they’d all move here. But we wouldn’t because our economy would be fooked.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irelands-brain-drain-at-record-level---one-Irish-person-leaves-home-every-five-minutes-171769131.html

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irelands-brain-drain-uses-up-their-quota-of-US-Canadian-and-Australian-visas-158086355.htmlr


Anybody with a good job and brains isn't going to find a better standard of living than they have in Ireland by emigrating.

Middle class people in Ireland have a good standard of living and quality of life. That doesn't seem to be the case for middle class British people, that is according to this Telegraph article from a few months ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9659949/UK-facing-middle-class-brain-drain-as-professionals-seek-better-lives-abroad.html


Our property/construction sector was destroyed by a rogue bank that infiltrated it's way into just about every financial institution in Ireland. The government bailed them out even though they were a purely private bank. That was the mistake but things are coming around. A debt deal has been arranged to stretch out repayments. Moody's upped Ireland's credit rating yesterday.

Personally I hate credit rating agencies and think they got off scott-free for being one of the principle causes of the global recession, however since you mentioned it every single one has Ireland significantly worse than the UK, what does that say about the view of the strength of the Irish economy compared to the UK? It says people think it is less capable of paying back it’s debt, hard to put a positive spin on that.

Ireland's credit rating is going in the right direction. Ireland got chewed up by Europe as a small country. Britain was not part of the single currency and hid their problems. Looking under the hood would show enormous exposure to credit debt.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/apr/30/credit-ratings-country-fitch-moodys-standard slightly old article but things have only improved slightly since then and I can’t find another table that so succinctly compares all ratings on all countries.

3 days ago Standard and Poor's increased Ireland's outlook from negative to stable.