Ireland Vs Scotland - Injurymageddan vs Resurgence

First topic message reminder :

UPDATED - Ireland 29 Man Squad Announced:

Hooker- Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
Props- David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,

Second Row- Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Henderson, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner
Backrow - Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, James Coughlan,

Scrumhalf - Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Flyhalf- Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,

Centre- Brian O'Driscoll, Keith Earls, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Wings- Craig Gilroy, Fergus McFadden, Luke Fitzgerald,
FullBack- Rob Kearney, Robin Henshaw

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So with Darcy now out, where will Deccie be forced to go? I think we all realize he will go with ROG and use the Darcy injury as even more excuse to stay with a “wise” old head at outhalf. Below I put in what I believe Deccie will put down as the starting line-up and below that my selection. Just to clarify, either team is capable of beating Scotland as we all know that we can show up and randomly, erraticly beat nearly anyone, but I believe my team has the benefit of win or lose being a team that starts to prove out whether the young players we all have such hopes for can do a job for us.

Deccie (Total Starting Caps, 663, 363 Backs, 300 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 McFadden (16)
13 Earls (36)
12 O’Driscoll (122)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 ROG (127)
9 Murray (16)
8 Heaslip (54)
7 SOB (24)
6 POM (11)
5 Ryan (25)
4 DOC (92)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Kilcoyne (4)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Court (29), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 Henderson (2), 20 Henry (6), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 Fitz (49)
Bench Caps: 162

Me (Total Starting Caps, 394, 207 Backs, 187 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)


16 Cronin (24), 17 Kilcoyne (4), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 DOC (92), 20 Heaslip (54), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 McFadden (16)
Bench Caps: 242

So only the 12 Warriors then!

I thought Heathcote would have made the bench to allow Weir to play for Glasgow against Ulster and I'm surprised that Cross is at 3, I'd be amazed if he outscrums the other props in training as he certainly doesn't manage to do it in matches.

Yes, no surpises there, really.

Dunbar and even Heathcote being added would have been warranted but were long shots in both cases. Let's stick with the Meatball and the Squashed Goblin for now - the former played well against the Dragons last week and the latter played well in, uh, 2009.

Lovely to see Welsh back and with Low on the bench too, that's a front row with real impact, potentially.

Happy that Barclay, McArthur, Dunbar etc are with Glasgow – their replacements in the Scotland team don’t massively compromise on quality (Evans aside) and it means Glasgow have a strong team.

Agreed RDW - I posted this on the other thread too, but I think this means that against Ulster, Glasgow can put out the following XV:

15 Peter Murchie
14 Rory Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 DTH van der Merwe
10 Scott Wight
9 Niko Matawalu

1 Gordon Reid
2 Pat MacArthur
3 Ed Kalman
4 Tim Swinson
5 Tom Ryder
6 Josh Strauss
7 John Barclay
8 Ryan Wilson (captain)

I'd be very happy with that indeed, all things considered. Crazy how much quality Glasgow has at the moment.

No real surprises from Scott Johnson. He's gone for continuity which makes sense. Denton is lucky to be there, and I thought that MacArthur may have shaded Hall with Dunbar ahead of Evans, but those are only bench issues. The XV is as expected.

Come on Geoff Cross!!

Geoff Cross has always surprised me when he has played for Scotland, and if he does well on Sunday I’ll never have been so surprised! He’s barely looked interested for Edinburgh all season.

The Beeb reckon Jackson will start at 10 and Marshall at 12 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21519953

If that's the case, we need Rhubard, Matty Scott and Schlong to have big, big games. The Ulster boys are good but they'll both be making their debuts.

Oh god, I'm getting excited again. Its catching...

Jacko vs Jacko... Who will win?

You should have seen him in the 1st half against Cardiff last Friday. He made it very clear that his priority was not to get injured, thus shirking any sort of rucking or tackling responsibility.

I agree though, some of his best performances have been in a Scotland jersey (debut aside) and last season he was a better bet than Murray in the scrum. He's also (usually) a workhorse in the loose, and he made an impact in that regard against Italy was a couple of robust carries.

I don't like the idea of him facing Court though. Court's scrummaging is hugely improved and he could make a mess. Beattie will need to perform the same magic tricks at the base of the scrum as he did against England and just get it out of there.

The Scotsman are reporting that rather than Luke Marshall at 12, Ireland will go for convicted murderer Luke Mitchell - that really would be a controversial selection!

Pat_Mustard wrote:The Scotsman are reporting that rather than Luke Marshall at 12, Ireland will go for convicted murderer Luke Mitchell - that really would be a controversial selection!

Scottish rugby journalism at its finest as always!

funnyExiledScot wrote:You should have seen him in the 1st half against Cardiff last Friday. He made it very clear that his priority was not to get injured, thus shirking any sort of rucking or tackling responsibility.

I agree though, some of his best performances have been in a Scotland jersey (debut aside) and last season he was a better bet than Murray in the scrum. He's also (usually) a workhorse in the loose, and he made an impact in that regard against Italy was a couple of robust carries.

I don't like the idea of him facing Court though. Court's scrummaging is hugely improved and he could make a mess. Beattie will need to perform the same magic tricks at the base of the scrum as he did against England and just get it out of there.

Yes, I agree with that - thankfully we've got both 20 stones of dedicated Doric tighthead on the bench in Low and another good option in Welsh who has played a couple of times this season on the tight as well.

I just hope that with Low and Welsh on the bench we don't see something daft, like Grant getting injured and Low coming on at loosehead.

Maybe I'm just too used to the Robinson/Hadden days....

funnyExiledScot wrote:I just hope that with Low and Welsh on the bench we don't see something daft, like Grant getting injured and Low coming on at loosehead.

Maybe I'm just too used to the Robinson/Hadden days....

If it was Hadden, then intuitively he'd move Hamilton to scrum half, Pyrgos to loosehead and put in the Squashed Goblin as our main lineout jumper. Sorted. It all made sense in Captain Haddock's head - a warm, happy, lonely place to be.

Well Dickinson not being used is a big step (although he's actually been playing some decent stuff for Sale recently).

When is Kidney going to roll the dice and name his team?

nickj wrote:

If that's the case, we need Rhubard, Matty Scott and Schlong to have big, big games. The Ulster boys are good but they'll both be making their debuts.

In the history of rugby I'm yet to see an occasion where a Scottish team has given a player anything other than an armchair ride on their debut. Twelvetrees being the obvious example!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

nickj wrote:

If that's the case, we need Rhubard, Matty Scott and Schlong to have big, big games. The Ulster boys are good but they'll both be making their debuts.

In the history of rugby I'm yet to see an occasion where a Scottish team has given a player anything other than an armchair ride on their debut. Twelvetrees being the obvious example!

This is simply not true, look at the debut that was given to Heathcote!

Heathcote's debut was more a hospital stretcher ride to the morgue!

Leaked team is confirmed.

Ireland: 15-9 Rob Kearney, Craig Gilroy, BOD, Luke Marshall, Keith Earls, Paddy Jackson, Conor Murray; 1-8 Tom Court, Rory Best, Mike Ross, DOC, Donncha Ryan, POM, SOB, Jamie Heaslip. Subs: Sean Cronin, Dave Kilcoyne, Deccie Fitz, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Eoin Reddan, ROG, Luke Fitz

About as brave as Deccie could possibly have been.

We need to be wary of the back row and the front row but otherwise Laidlaw needs to start dropping bombs on Earls and Gilroy and Harley needs to squish the newbies in his channel early. It will be a cracker.

Best of luck to both teams.

Well, well, well. Good spot UIG. Strong team. I hope we don't miss having a true 7 in the squad.

POM could make a real nuisance of himself, unless Kelly's got his game boots on.

Agreed - this has the makings of a cracking match.

That Irish backline has been picked to play some rugby, as has the Scotland backline, so there should be some tries in this one.

I worry about the Irish front row against ours, but if Paddy Jackson gets his kicking from hand even slightly wrong then I think our back three will cause Ireland some problems.

I still think Ireland will win, I think they will shade the breakdown and contact area, but there's plenty to hope for from a Scottish perspective.

My biggest worry is if Ireland play like they did vs Wales in the WC, i.e. try and bash through Scotland they'll get chopped all day by Bob, Kellybrows, Ford etc...

And the Scottish bench is probably better than Ireland's too (although Ireland's bench could be awesome, but Deccie doesn't know how to use one...)

Ireland will be the favourites for this one but here's hoping that Scotland can produce a performance to back up the last game, fingers crossed.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Leaked team is confirmed.

Ireland: 15-9 Rob Kearney, Craig Gilroy, BOD, Luke Marshall, Keith Earls, Paddy Jackson, Conor Murray; 1-8 Tom Court, Rory Best, Mike Ross, DOC, Donncha Ryan, POM, SOB, Jamie Heaslip. Subs: Sean Cronin, Dave Kilcoyne, Deccie Fitz, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Eoin Reddan, ROG, Luke Fitz

I'm certainly no fan of Deccie but in a way I think this dispels the myth that he is ultra-conservative in his team selection.

Thought it might have been a good idea to play McFadden though just in case PJ's kicking goes to pot.

Jacksons kicking was awful in the autumn, I worry for Ireland's chances if it becomes an arm wrestle, they need another goal kicker on the pitch.

I am hopeful for Scotland. the italy win should have given them some belief and confidence and we are close to our best team As ever breakdown will be key - and hopefully the ginger tackle monster will boss things

theslosty wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Leaked team is confirmed.

Ireland: 15-9 Rob Kearney, Craig Gilroy, BOD, Luke Marshall, Keith Earls, Paddy Jackson, Conor Murray; 1-8 Tom Court, Rory Best, Mike Ross, DOC, Donncha Ryan, POM, SOB, Jamie Heaslip. Subs: Sean Cronin, Dave Kilcoyne, Deccie Fitz, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Eoin Reddan, ROG, Luke Fitz

I'm certainly no fan of Deccie but in a way I think this dispels the myth that he is ultra-conservative in his team selection.

Thought it might have been a good idea to play McFadden though just in case PJ's kicking goes to pot.

I kind of do too.

Is Chris Henry injured?

Glas a du wrote:Is Chris Henry injured?

Yep, for 4-6 weeks so won't be back for the remaining games.

That's a big blow.

Been away for a bit, so apologies for my absence.

I reckon that's as strong a team as we could field. Cross isn't as good in the scrum as Reverand Murray but he didn't disgrace himself in the Autumn. I would expect him to do ok.

I think this is a game we can win. It's not often I approach a game against the Irish with that confidecne but if we can front up like we did against the Italian pack, and starve the Irish backs of good ball I reckon we'll win it.

Kearney also has to be careful that his clearing kicks find touch. He won't want Hogg, Visser and Maitland running the ball back through open play.

It's a big game for Harley too. He'll be used to playing a lot of the Irish contingent in the pro 12 but he really needs to bring the pain on Sunday.

Glas a du wrote:That's a big blow.

He wasn't starting anyway although he should have been - and as an impact sub, well I'm always sceptical about how much of an impact a fetcher type 7 can have in the last 20 minutes. Its a blow but not a big one, it would have been a big blow if he was a starter.

Not much talk about this game from Scottish posters...

I cannae get a word in sideways on the Irish thread on the match!

Radge - you mean our paddy brethren like a bit of chat? Well, I never...

I am excited about this match. It's not often that two teams genuinely don't have any true feel for how good they currently are but it seems that's exactly what we've got here. Scotland because we need to back up a good previous performance with the same personnel and no excuses; Ireland because they have talented kids in pivotal positions, an aging talisman and come off the back of snapping a cherished home winning streak against an old enemy they thought that they had the game to put away.

I think that the team who wins this may end up second in the 6N table. There's a lot at stake. This is an era defining game for Scotland. Are we turning a corner? If we can put Ireland away, it will look much more as though the answer is 'yes'.

I'm struggling at work with the excitement. I hate this feeling that we might just be on the cusp of greatness and we'll play well and really make Ireland struggle on Sunday, but then I get worried and can see us withering and receding into nervous and error strewn rugby.

It's a bit like the French, I just don't know what Scotland will turn up!

Radge - here's the thing, and there no getting away from it:

Now, when we don't know which Scotland will turn up, the choice is between a good team and an average team. Previously, it was either a poor team or an average team.

Compare Chunk, Parks, Morrisoon, Walker, Danielli, Jones, Southwell and Lawson to Grant, Heathcote, Scott, Dunbar, Maitland, Visser and Hogg. Cream will rise to the top. It's not just a few positions where the step up in quality is discernible - it's at least half the team. The amusing thing as always with this tournament is that other country's fans don't acknowledge your team's abilities until you've played and beaten them.

I like the fact that other fans don't know whom Hogg and Harley are. They certainly will know at the end of the match. People are seriously missing the point about the tries we scored in the Italy match - the significant thing is actually that 2 years ago, we didn't have the players with the ability to have scored them.

To my mind there is no doubt that scotland have the better talent in many positions than Ireland ( albeit young inexperienced and unproven), same as there is little doubt that Scotland seem to have of late forgotton how to play as a team and are clearly fragile in cohesiveness and confidence.

If Scotland play to their potential they will win and win well, if they lose confidence they will be well beaten. At this level the mental side of the game makes a huge difference.

George Carlin wrote:Radge - here's the thing, and there no getting away from it:

Now, when we don't know which Scotland will turn up, the choice is between a good team and an average team. Previously, it was either a poor team or an average team.

Compare Chunk, Parks, Morrisoon, Walker, Danielli, Jones, Southwell and Lawson to Grant, Heathcote, Scott, Dunbar, Maitland, Visser and Hogg. Cream will rise to the top. It's not just a few positions where the step up in quality is discernible - it's at least half the team. The amusing thing as always with this tournament is that other country's fans don't acknowledge your team's abilities until you've played and beaten them.

I like the fact that other fans don't know whom Hogg and Harley are. They certainly will know at the end of the match. People are seriously missing the point about the tries we scored in the Italy match - the significant thing is actually that 2 years ago, we didn't have the players with the ability to have scored them.

Really good comparision George. I have no doubt that Scotland are on the way up. They have some excellent young talent coming through.

Saying that, I really was a fan of Chunk!

Do Ireland have a ginger tackle monster? We do

Ah TJ we've got the Ginger Tackle Monster too, his name is Paddy Jackson...

Well he is a day walker. Beyond that I think that's where the similarities end.

Paddy is 5ft11 and just over 13 st, whereas Harley is 6ft6 and just shy of 17st.

Ginger yes.... monster no

My head says that we'll lose this one. I think the Irish breakdown skills, choke tackle etc. will give them too much quality ball, and make no mistake, Kidney has picked an exciting backline that is coming to play some rugby.

Still, we've good a half decent chance this time, and I haven't said that against Ireland for a while.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Glas a du wrote:That's a big blow.

I'm always sceptical about how much of an impact a fetcher type 7 can have in the last 20 minutes. Its a blow but not a big one, it would have been a big blow if he was a starter.

Leinster used to use Jennings that way in their Heineken Cup winning season. Start McLaughlin, O'Brien and Heaslip and then bring on Jennings with 20 minutes to go.

TJ is a confident one bless his tartan socks

Im looking forward to it now Kidney has given youth a fling at 10 and 12. It may blow up on him but id rather lose with two pups learning their trade then a 36year old legend who is miles past his best.

Hopefully Kidneys brave selections will galvanise Ireland. If it is dry and Jackson does not have an absolute disaster from the kicking tee i think we will win by more than 5 points. We have a little bit more quality in the back division.

We played well v Wales and looked good defensively when we had 15 on the pitch. England was an error strewn naive performance in the rain. England did a job on us and really shut down our carriers. Not sure Scotland could replicate the job they did.

Scotland 19-27 Ireland

Unlike yourself FES my head says we'll win this one. Ireland will be a force at the breakdown but Heaslip looked dodgey in their last outing, they'll miss Healy, especialy in the loose and they'll be without MacArthy.

Loosing D'Arcy might be a blessing in disguise but if our backs front up defensively there is no reason why we can't beat this injury Ravaged Ireland who are without their 1st choice Locks, their 1st choice fly half, their 1st choice Blindside, their first choice loosie and their first choice wingers.

If we can't win at home under these cirumstances Scotland are in far greater trouble than any of us realize.

We are also missing some important players though: Euan Murray, Ross Rennie and Chris Cusiter - Rennie in particular.

I also think Hamilton is once again the wrong selection for this game. Tim Swinson would be ideal to counter the Irish at the breakdown.

I agree we miss Rennie, but Harley was excellent against Italy and Brown played well too. I actually struggle to think how Rennie or Barclay could muscle their way into this current pack.

I certainly wouldn't be enclined to drop Harley or Brown.

Murray is a loss but Cross played ok in the Scrums in the AI's and I think will make more of a nusence of himself at the breakdown with his higher work rate than.

Cusiter is a bit "meh" for me. Laidlaw was man of the match last week and played his part in everything the Scottish Backs and pack did well.

Ireland on the otherhand missing POC, Healy, Sexton and Ferris, Zebo and Bowe are all much harder to replace and not feel the effects.

Team Injured:

01 Cian Healy
02
03
04 Mike McCarthy
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Chris Henry
08
09
10 Jonny Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13
14 Tommy Bowe
15

Thats the bones of a good Irish team.