Ireland Vs Scotland - Injurymageddan vs Resurgence

by wolfball Fri 15 Feb 2013, 5:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

UPDATED - Ireland 29 Man Squad Announced:

Hooker- Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
Props- David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,

Second Row- Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Henderson, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner
Backrow - Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, James Coughlan,

Scrumhalf - Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Flyhalf- Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,

Centre- Brian O'Driscoll, Keith Earls, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Wings- Craig Gilroy, Fergus McFadden, Luke Fitzgerald,
FullBack- Rob Kearney, Robin Henshaw

-------------------------
So with Darcy now out, where will Deccie be forced to go? I think we all realize he will go with ROG and use the Darcy injury as even more excuse to stay with a “wise” old head at outhalf. Below I put in what I believe Deccie will put down as the starting line-up and below that my selection. Just to clarify, either team is capable of beating Scotland as we all know that we can show up and randomly, erraticly beat nearly anyone, but I believe my team has the benefit of win or lose being a team that starts to prove out whether the young players we all have such hopes for can do a job for us.

Deccie (Total Starting Caps, 663, 363 Backs, 300 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 McFadden (16)
13 Earls (36)
12 O’Driscoll (122)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 ROG (127)
9 Murray (16)
8 Heaslip (54)
7 SOB (24)
6 POM (11)
5 Ryan (25)
4 DOC (92)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Kilcoyne (4)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Court (29), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 Henderson (2), 20 Henry (6), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 Fitz (49)
Bench Caps: 162

Me (Total Starting Caps, 394, 207 Backs, 187 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Kilcoyne (4), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 DOC (92), 20 Heaslip (54), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 McFadden (16)
Bench Caps: 242

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri 22 Feb 2013, 1:48 pm

red_stag wrote:Team Injured:

01 Cian Healy
02
03
04 Mike McCarthy
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Chris Henry
08
09
10 Jonny Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13
14 Tommy Bowe
15

Thats the bones of a good Irish team.

Getting your excuses in early Staggy!! Wink

by red_stag Fri 22 Feb 2013, 1:55 pm

Radge, please its called building up your arsenal when it comes to post match gloating

For the record I think we'll win by a score.

And yes by "a score" I do mean "by twenty" Very Happy

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:00 pm

I'm gonna be boring and sit on the fence with this one. Although I do think that leaving the Scotland bench pretty much the same was a mistake on Johnson's part, we have some great talent in Glasgow at the moment!

As it stands, Scotland SHOULD win... This doesn't mean they will...

Tactical release for the pro12 perhaps?

by red_stag Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:06 pm

Am I the only one who wasn't impressed by Scotland against Italy.

They were second best in territory. They were second best in possession. They were second best at the set piece.

The only difference between that and the England game was that Italy missed a lot of tackles which allowed Scotland to run in a few breakaway tries.

Italy travelling away are a different animal than in Rome.

by **RDW** Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:09 pm

red_stag wrote:

They were second best in territory. They were second best in possession.

Only once we were 20 points up - refer to the first game of the championship between Ireland and Wales for a similar example

red_stag wrote:
They were second best at the set piece.

Were you watching a different game?? Scrum was more than solid and, yes we had a couple of lost lineouts, but it was generally solid if unspectacular. Italy lost a few too and we certainly weren't second best!

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

red_stag wrote:Am I the only one who wasn't impressed by Scotland against Italy.

They were second best in territory. They were second best in possession. They were second best at the set piece.

The only difference between that and the England game was that Italy missed a lot of tackles which allowed Scotland to run in a few breakaway tries.

Italy travelling away are a different animal than in Rome.

I guess we'll see this weekend if that's 100% true or not.

We're under no delusions stag, we know our team is far from the finished product, but they won by taking advantage of Italy's weaknesses. So it's still a win at the end of the day.

by dublin_dave Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

not sure stag. I think this is the most promising Scottish side in quite a while.

Italy struggle to perform consistently granted but the Scots played well and were impressive. I thought defensively they were poor v England but its early days for them under Scott Johnson. They will tighten up in that respect.

I would worry if this was a 5pm Saturday match as the atmosphere would be a notch or two above what it will be on Sunday. No doubt the infamous Murrayfield/Gorgie mist and rain will appear while the sun is splitting the stones in the rest of the city

Think we will nick it in a good game.

by UlstermaninGlasgow Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:12 pm

Weather shouldn't be much of a problem, 4 degrees and cloudy, although some snow expected on Sat...

by **RDW** Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:13 pm

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Weather shouldn't be much of a problem, 4 degrees and cloudy, although some snow expected on Sat...

If there are two nations that should be used to playing in bad weather it is Scotland and Ireland!

by UlstermaninGlasgow Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:16 pm

I'm not honestly sure anymore... Look at Ireland in their last game. Couldn't change their dry weather plan into a more risk-reducing one. Same with Scotland, they play off high tempo counterattack, not something that wet weather is conducive to... I reckon dry, Scotland win, wet, Ireland grind something out...

by funnyExiledScot Fri 22 Feb 2013, 2:21 pm

red_stag wrote:Team Injured:

01 Cian Healy
02
03
04 Mike McCarthy
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Chris Henry
08
09
10 Jonny Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13
14 Tommy Bowe
15

Thats the bones of a good Irish team.

Oh, I thought we were talking about 1st XV players injured. In which case for Scotland you can add to the three I mentioned earlier Nick De Luca and Tommy Seymour (all only just coming back from injury), Ali Strokosch, Jamie Farndale, Chris Fusaro, Joe Ansbro and Rory Lamont.

1.
2.
3.Murray
4.
5.
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Fusaro
9. Cusiter
10.
11. Farndale
12. Ansbro
13. NDL
14. Seymour
15. Lamont

Bones of a good team there.

by GLove39 Sat 23 Feb 2013, 10:22 pm

Was at the captains run today, boys looking good. And 'uncle' Scott Johnson, as he insisted on being called, was in a tip top mood! Real positive vibes from the camp, happy yet focused. All bodes well for tomorrow...

by Glas a du Sun 24 Feb 2013, 8:17 am

Come on the Jocks!

by geoff998rugby Sun 24 Feb 2013, 8:58 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
red_stag wrote:Team Injured:

01 Cian Healy
02
03
04 Mike McCarthy
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Chris Henry
08
09
10 Jonny Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13
14 Tommy Bowe
15

Thats the bones of a good Irish team.

Oh, I thought we were talking about 1st XV players injured. In which case for Scotland you can add to the three I mentioned earlier Nick De Luca and Tommy Seymour (all only just coming back from injury), Ali Strokosch, Jamie Farndale, Chris Fusaro, Joe Ansbro and Rory Lamont.

1.
2.
3.Murray
4.
5.
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Fusaro
9. Cusiter
10.
11. Farndale
12. Ansbro
13. NDL
14. Seymour
15. Lamont

Bones of a good team there.

Not comparing like with like most of the Scottish players listed would not make the first XV, nearly all of the Irish players listed would

by **George Carlin** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 9:58 am

geoff998rugby wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
red_stag wrote:Team Injured:

01 Cian Healy
02
03
04 Mike McCarthy
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Stephen Ferris
07 Chris Henry
08
09
10 Jonny Sexton
11 Simon Zebo
12 Gordon Darcy
13
14 Tommy Bowe
15

Thats the bones of a good Irish team.

Oh, I thought we were talking about 1st XV players injured. In which case for Scotland you can add to the three I mentioned earlier Nick De Luca and Tommy Seymour (all only just coming back from injury), Ali Strokosch, Jamie Farndale, Chris Fusaro, Joe Ansbro and Rory Lamont.

1.
2.
3.Murray
4.
5.
6. Strokosch
7. Rennie
8. Fusaro
9. Cusiter
10.
11. Farndale
12. Ansbro
13. NDL
14. Seymour
15. Lamont

Bones of a good team there.

Not comparing like with like most of the Scottish players listed would not make the first XV, nearly all of the Irish players listed would

That's completely subjective Geoff and (regarding the Scottish team) I would go so far as to generalise that comment is simply not correct. It's also not our complete list of injured players by any means. I think the point is that neither side can claim to be entirely unaffected by injury.

by geoff998rugby Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:06 am

Simple question what is Scotland's best XV

Ireland's best XV would contain 7 of those listed - I dont think Scotland are missing anything like 7 of the first XV - 2/3 at most

by **RDW** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:10 am

Some good home truths from Dean Ryan

Scotland forwards coach Dean Ryan played party-pooper on the eve of Scotland’s Six Nations match against Ireland at Murrayfield, as he poured cold water yesterday on the celebrations that followed the unexpectedly easy 34-10 win over Italy two weeks ago.

“I am astounded at the rollercoaster that Scotland goes on,” said the former Gloucester coach with genuine surprise in his voice.

“We won one game against Italy and suddenly we are at the dawning of a new era and everything else. You guys [the media] have got a  responsibility in that. I’ve never been on a rollercoaster like it.

“Two games ago we got bumped by England. Three games ago we lost to Tonga. That’s were this squad is. I’m not trying to pretend anything else. We’ve got a tough game [today] against Ireland, who are masters of the breakdown and masters of the tackle contest. We’re not good at it, so I just see it as a real challenge.

“We haven’t ditched the whole past because of one win against Italy. This side is very young in understanding

how to win Test matches. It’s one win. If we get two, then we might start to see some characteristics and certain things following a theme. One isn’t enough.”

There may be a degree of expectation management in all of this but, essentially, Ryan is right.

It is a measure of how far Scotland have fallen that a four-try rout of the championship’s perennial underdogs should have sparked such an outpouring of joy, coming as it did just one week after yet another heavy defeat in West London.

Scotland improved against Italy, but they will need to make another step up against Ireland this afternoon and Ryan spelled out the four areas that the squad are focusing on.

He said: “It’s not complicated, it’s quite easy. It’s defence, set piece, tackle area and tackle contest, that’s it. That’s probably most of the game!

“We’re not trying to pretend that we’ve uncovered something that no one else is thinking. All we are talking about is that there are two or three areas, particularly around the tackle area and collision, that we haven’t been very good at.

“We haven’t gone away and worked specifically on secret remedies around there and doing things differently. We’ve just made it a priority and we’ve talked about how, until we’re good at those areas, we’re not going to go off and develop other things because, in the past, the

Scotland rugby team has tried to rush out those other things they are good at and avoid those areas.

“We can’t win consistent Test matches until we get better at those areas so why not prioritise that?”

The new Scotland management team at least have consistency on their side. They have underlined the importance of the breakdown in every press conference, so we can be darned sure they are doing exactly the same in every Scotland squad meeting.

If the home players don’t handle the Irish challenge in the biff and bash department this afternoon, it won’t be for the want of warning.

The coaches are not asking for

anything radical, they are simply asking the players to do the simple things extremely well. Is that some sort of motto for this squad?

“Winning Test matches is doing the simple things really well, that’s not a secret,” Ryan shoots back. “There’s not a team around that doesn’t do that. Look at New Zealand, if you analyse what they do, they do specific things very well. That’s not a motto or mantra, that’s just commonsense.”

The problem with commonsense, as Ryan is hinting, is that it simply isn’t common enough when it comes to Scottish rugby.

I really wish he would reconsider his armchair critic job after the 6N - he really sounds like a positive influence on the team.

by **RDW** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:11 am

geoff998rugby wrote:Simple question what is Scotland's best XV

Ireland's best XV would contain 7 of those listed - I dont think Scotland are missing anything like 7 of the first XV - 2/3 at most

6.

But you're missing the point here - he's only trying to say that Ireland aren't the only team with injuries. yes Ireland probably are worse off, but it is very one eyed to think they are the only nation in world rugby that has to content with injuries.

Our first 3 opensides are all injured!

by MacKnocked-on Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:15 am

geoff998rugby wrote:Simple question what is Scotland's best XV

Ireland's best XV would contain 7 of those listed - I dont think Scotland are missing anything like 7 of the first XV - 2/3 at most

I think that's probably about right, Scotland's team is evolving and some of the injured players mentioned ,eg Rory Lamont, probably wouldn't be in the selection mix any more. Of the injured players listed that would figure in selection are Ansbro, Rennie, Fusaro and Barclay and that's about it. Cusiter possibly as well.
Surely all teams are affected by injury to some extent at all times.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:37 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Some good home truths from Dean Ryan

Scotland forwards coach Dean Ryan played party-pooper on the eve of Scotland’s Six Nations match against Ireland at Murrayfield, as he poured cold water yesterday on the celebrations that followed the unexpectedly easy 34-10 win over Italy two weeks ago.

“I am astounded at the rollercoaster that Scotland goes on,” said the former Gloucester coach with genuine surprise in his voice.

“We won one game against Italy and suddenly we are at the dawning of a new era and everything else. You guys [the media] have got a  responsibility in that. I’ve never been on a rollercoaster like it.

“Two games ago we got bumped by England. Three games ago we lost to Tonga. That’s were this squad is. I’m not trying to pretend anything else. We’ve got a tough game [today] against Ireland, who are masters of the breakdown and masters of the tackle contest. We’re not good at it, so I just see it as a real challenge.

“We haven’t ditched the whole past because of one win against Italy. This side is very young in understanding

how to win Test matches. It’s one win. If we get two, then we might start to see some characteristics and certain things following a theme. One isn’t enough.”

There may be a degree of expectation management in all of this but, essentially, Ryan is right.

It is a measure of how far Scotland have fallen that a four-try rout of the championship’s perennial underdogs should have sparked such an outpouring of joy, coming as it did just one week after yet another heavy defeat in West London.

Scotland improved against Italy, but they will need to make another step up against Ireland this afternoon and Ryan spelled out the four areas that the squad are focusing on.

He said: “It’s not complicated, it’s quite easy. It’s defence, set piece, tackle area and tackle contest, that’s it. That’s probably most of the game!

“We’re not trying to pretend that we’ve uncovered something that no one else is thinking. All we are talking about is that there are two or three areas, particularly around the tackle area and collision, that we haven’t been very good at.

“We haven’t gone away and worked specifically on secret remedies around there and doing things differently. We’ve just made it a priority and we’ve talked about how, until we’re good at those areas, we’re not going to go off and develop other things because, in the past, the

Scotland rugby team has tried to rush out those other things they are good at and avoid those areas.

“We can’t win consistent Test matches until we get better at those areas so why not prioritise that?”

The new Scotland management team at least have consistency on their side. They have underlined the importance of the breakdown in every press conference, so we can be darned sure they are doing exactly the same in every Scotland squad meeting.

If the home players don’t handle the Irish challenge in the biff and bash department this afternoon, it won’t be for the want of warning.

The coaches are not asking for

anything radical, they are simply asking the players to do the simple things extremely well. Is that some sort of motto for this squad?

“Winning Test matches is doing the simple things really well, that’s not a secret,” Ryan shoots back. “There’s not a team around that doesn’t do that. Look at New Zealand, if you analyse what they do, they do specific things very well. That’s not a motto or mantra, that’s just commonsense.”

The problem with commonsense, as Ryan is hinting, is that it simply isn’t common enough when it comes to Scottish rugby.

I really wish he would reconsider his armchair critic job after the 6N - he really sounds like a positive influence on the team.

Agree, I'd say the Scottish positives are more down to Ryan shouting at them. As I've said before though, it seems unlikely he'll stay although I really do wish he would!

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:38 am

will ireland move to 5th above france in the WC if they beat scotland

by **RDW** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:47 am

Could do with more of this today from Beattie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWZwzDUVv5Q

3:14 - favourite Scotland try ever!

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:51 am

bubbles, nice song

by **RDW** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 10:55 am

Had forgotten how much of a beast Beattie was for a good few seasons - shows how big his fall from grace really was.

There's some old highlights in there that show how long he has been about.

by **Notch** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 11:26 am

Glas a du wrote:Come on the Jocks!

by maestegmafia Sun 24 Feb 2013, 12:46 pm

Can anyone PM me a good link?

by 123456789 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:21 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Can anyone PM me a good link?

First row sports is pretty good but the pop ups are dodgy

by 100%beefy Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:28 pm

where is the match thread?

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:30 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Can anyone PM me a good link?

Check your PM and fill yer boots.

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:32 pm

I think this is the match thread isn't it?

by 123456789 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:32 pm

I'm worried about this one, I cannot remember Scotland winning a game against any tier one opposition, except Italy, when there has been a level of expectation.
The likes of France 2007, Italy 2010, Wales 2011 and England 2012 stick out whenever teams have a lot of debutants we seem to allow them an easy ride, today I'd like to see Gray, Beattie, Lamont and Visser smash up the 10-12 channel which will mean that the outside backs such as O'Driscoll will get sucked in to try to help out. The choke tackle won't be as much of a weapon because the likes of Healy and O'Connell aren't playing. Despite that the running style of Visser, Gray and Hamilton make choke tackles easy.

by 100%beefy Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:32 pm

Cari wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Can anyone PM me a good link?

Check your PM and fill yer boots.

can someone PM to me too thanks

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:36 pm

Check your PM Beefy.

by Cyril Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:40 pm

Come on Scotland! Braveheart

Would be great if they could finish second in the table.

They've certainly got the beating of Ireland and Wales (and maybe even France).

by **George Carlin** Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:41 pm

Guscott looks knackered.

by kingjohn7 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:42 pm

Good luck today both teams, Whisky

by TJ1 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:45 pm

Should be a cracker. Conditions are good.

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:48 pm

Hope Luke Marshall gets a good game on his debut. clap

by Gibson Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:58 pm

Man I love Flower Of Scotland.. It is an essential part of 5-N/6-N history for me. Love it.

Here's to a great game me Scottish buds.

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 1:59 pm

Gibbo - are you shouting for Visser today then? Wink

by tigertattie Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:01 pm

Glad cotter is feeling better. We might have had nicol commentating.

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:07 pm

Ireland need to get the ball out quicker.

by Golden Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:07 pm

Lovely break from Marshall. Surely Earls should have offloaded to O'Driscoll though?

by wales606 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:08 pm

Ireland look sharp in attack, just need more support on the shoulder

and they have let Scotland off the hook

by Golden Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:08 pm

Is that a case of not been 100% confident with Jacksons kicking? If that was Sexton or O gara they would have gone for the points

by wales606 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:08 pm

Golden wrote:Lovely break from Marshall. Surely Earls should have offloaded to O'Driscoll though?

Don't think he could free his hands

by 100%beefy Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:09 pm

good start for irish debutantes

by wales606 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:09 pm

SOMEBODY RUN ON MARSHALL'S SHOULDER for god sake

by Cari Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:09 pm

No, I think they felt they had a good opportunity to score a try.

Argh! Gilroy. Marshall having a great start.

by wales606 Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

2 breaks and 43 metres from 10 minutes of international rugby - not a bad start to his career

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