Ireland Vs Scotland - Injurymageddan vs Resurgence

First topic message reminder :

UPDATED - Ireland 29 Man Squad Announced:

Hooker- Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
Props- David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,

Second Row- Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Henderson, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner
Backrow - Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, James Coughlan,

Scrumhalf - Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Flyhalf- Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,

Centre- Brian O'Driscoll, Keith Earls, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Wings- Craig Gilroy, Fergus McFadden, Luke Fitzgerald,
FullBack- Rob Kearney, Robin Henshaw

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So with Darcy now out, where will Deccie be forced to go? I think we all realize he will go with ROG and use the Darcy injury as even more excuse to stay with a “wise” old head at outhalf. Below I put in what I believe Deccie will put down as the starting line-up and below that my selection. Just to clarify, either team is capable of beating Scotland as we all know that we can show up and randomly, erraticly beat nearly anyone, but I believe my team has the benefit of win or lose being a team that starts to prove out whether the young players we all have such hopes for can do a job for us.

Deccie (Total Starting Caps, 663, 363 Backs, 300 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 McFadden (16)
13 Earls (36)
12 O’Driscoll (122)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 ROG (127)
9 Murray (16)
8 Heaslip (54)
7 SOB (24)
6 POM (11)
5 Ryan (25)
4 DOC (92)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Kilcoyne (4)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Court (29), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 Henderson (2), 20 Henry (6), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 Fitz (49)
Bench Caps: 162

Me (Total Starting Caps, 394, 207 Backs, 187 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)


16 Cronin (24), 17 Kilcoyne (4), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 DOC (92), 20 Heaslip (54), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 McFadden (16)
Bench Caps: 242

Linebreaker wrote:Feel for you Irish fans. Complete travesty of justice.

Now this idiot ref gives them a penalty. Surely IRB need to look into Barnes' performance - that was shocking!

yep Barnes was hummin'. Scotland showed such huge character and guts to win that game. So happy right now!

Well done Scotland. Hope you can kick on from this.

I said it before so dont attack me, Paddy J, is not and never will be, International class. Best be honest about it. I felt so sorry for him out there. Kidney fed him to the lions.

George Carlin wrote:That was completely crazy. I really think that we robbed Ireland, to be honest.

However, that was a defensive performance like the Scotland team of 2009 and that's very pleasing.

Really Ireland butchered 3(?) clear chances so the defence was not that good. Forwards did well in the set piece but once again like against England did not contest the breakdown enough. Why?

Can we please had Weir starting the next game. Rhubarb did not get a lot of ball to play with but he didn't do much with what he got.

Madigan is counting down the days that clown retires

enjoy the win Radge...we'll have a very exciting encounter next week!

v

Woody's just said "We're close to seeing the end of Ronan O'Gara..." We've been watching it for a while haven't we?

ChequeredJersey wrote:I think you guys are blaming Joubert too much based on one poor game yesterday. He's generally pretty good. Barnes is consistently awful. Are there any referees that any posters here actually rate? 'Cause I've never seen a 606er praise the referee ever and every single International match sees bitching about the referee and how awful they are

My comments are based on a RWC final, a series in Australia, and autumn internationals. Clueless ref who feels the need to hand the game on a silver platter to the favourites.

Say it Woody. Kidney must GO! Gusset will say it.

TJ wrote:

Can we please had Weir starting the next game.

+1 Weir is very good. Why doesn't he start more often?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Rog to announce retirement?

He won't need to , someone else will do that for him

A positive is, Marshall showed up and is well worth investing in. Leave Darcy and ROG at home from here on in. Madigan to back Sexton up. Bring Mcfadden in to the 23 as well. BOD will retire after this 6-N. Time for centre partnership succession. No point in wasting any more time Kidney. 4 years is long enough. Do the right thing for once.

TJ wrote:

George Carlin wrote:That was completely crazy. I really think that we robbed Ireland, to be honest.

However, that was a defensive performance like the Scotland team of 2009 and that's very pleasing.

Really Ireland butchered 3(?) clear chances so the defence was not that good. Forwards did well in the set piece but once again like against England did not contest the breakdown enough. Why?

Can we please had Weir starting the next game. Rhubarb did not get a lot of ball to play with but he didn't do much with what he got.

TJ - I think that Scott Johson can take a lot of credit for bringing on Weir when he did.

The Meatball seemed mad for it when he came on and our relatively strong set piece was made for his territorial kicking game. I also thought that SJ did well by resisting the urge to yank Beattie for Denton when Beattie made a couple of fairly chunky missed tackles.

He got it right.

I really cant stand listening to Elmer Fudge waffle anymore. Same ol, same ol BS:

Gibson wrote:I said it before so dont attack me, Paddy J, is not and never will be, International class. Best be honest about it. I felt so sorry for him out there. Kidney fed him to the lions.

Don't you think it's ridiculous to say that? I mean, he's already a better 10 than ROG or Sexton were at the same age... and he has another 13, 14 years of rugby ahead of him! He actually played well today bar place kicking and one missed touch.

Deccie is gonna get everyone around him to critique what he is doing......can I come?

Im losing a lot of respect for Conor O shea here. He should stay away from the anaylsists.

Bet someone is giving ROG another black eye right now

Applaud Scott Johnson. Fair assessment of the game by saying we won but we need to improve.

[quote="George Carlin"]

TJ wrote:

George Carlin wrote:That was completely crazy. I really think that we robbed Ireland, to be honest.
...................

Can we please had Weir starting the next game. Rhubarb did not get a lot of ball to play with but he didn't do much with what he got.

TJ - I think that Scott Johson can take a lot of credit for bringing on Weir when he did.

The Meatball seemed mad for it when he came on and our relatively strong set piece was made for his territorial kicking game. I also thought that SJ did well by resisting the urge to yank Beattie for Denton when Beattie made a couple of fairly chunky missed tackles.

He got it right.

I agree - but Weir offers so much more than just a kicking game. He did look up for it didn't he and the game swung scotlands way at that point.

SJ is going the right way to keep his job right now. Need another win but so far so good.

O'Brien gave away at least two braindead, and I emphasise braindead penalties. I think there were more. He carried but mostly was handled very very well and was shovelled sideways. He made the break that led to the try but I don't recall much more carrying forwards.

You can argue thats lack of support but he went on his own and that's his call.

a sad end for Rog. classic example of a player who has kept going way too long.

Kidney simply must go and he can take his coaching team with him

Yes players from all provinces have played poorly in this championship but he is accountable and has been treated like bambi for far too long. We cannot string 2 good performances together. It is simply not good enough

Our good performances are blips

Dont care about the rest of the 6 nations. Couldnt care less if we beat France and Italy.

Stand. SOB was never supported though. He was the only one trying to carry and do something. I agree he did give away 1 stupid penalty.

Great match

Well done scots and unlucky Ireland.

Great to watch really enjoyed that.

Plenty of potential lions around.

100%beefy wrote:Deccie is gonna get everyone around him to critique what he is doing......can I come?

I'll bring the water bombs.

Well.. all I can say is sorry Ireland for such a jammy win!

Quite how we won that is beyond me. I nearly had a cardiac arrest!

I think we need to make a few personnel changes next week but, well game on!

maestegmafia wrote:Great match

Well done scots and unlucky Ireland.

Great to watch really enjoyed that.

Plenty of potential lions around.

Yeah, Best didn't have his best game but I still don't anyone has outplayed yet.

Hamilton deserved man of the match but Cross was outstanding also!

Great Result. Hopefully shut up all the clowns who constantly question our presence in the 6 Nations!

dublin_dave wrote:a sad end for Rog. classic example of a player who has kept going way too long.

Yeah it's been sad to watch. There's nothing worse than seeing a once great sports person start to go bad...and then get worse. Don't be surprised to hear BOD retiring at least from international duty very soon...

Gibson wrote:Well done Scotland. Happy for ye. Have a wee dram on us. Proper whiskEy mind...

Cheers pal - same to you! All the best to my Irish friends after this one - keep your chins up.

I've had to sit down after that. I'm not going to mince words - we stole that game. I'm not saying we didn't deserve to win, but we escaped with the result.

The media and 606ers (surely the ying and yang which, when combined, will signal the end of days) will probably be too harsh on Ireland and too excusing of Scotland. We knew this one would be close, but in the end, it's purely the result which separates the two teams. There is no great gulf in class between the winning and losing teams.

Ireland simply didn't take their chances. Sometimes this happens. As far as next steps are concerned, Andy Nicol is right (I can't believe I'm saying that) - they need to persevere with Jackson. Anyone who has seen him in the Pro12 will know that this match simply wasn't a fair reflection of his abilities. He will get better.

For Scotland... well we simply wouldn't have won this kind of match last year. I'm very proud of the calmness shown in kicking our way back into the game - 'clinical' is the word. My stand-out players are Hamilton for his lineout work, Cross for taking the job that no-one wanted and excelling, and Maitland for some fine work in defence. We can't (and surely won't) get carried away with this one, but we won. When we close the book on the 2012-13 season, it will be the result today (and Glasgow's Pro12 title...) that will be important, not the manner of the win.

WTF just happened?
Well done Scotland.
Ronan, you should have had the sense to retire from Internationals now the choice isn't yours.
Earls, take the blinkers off and learn how to pass.

Ireland you just threw away the game.

Im hope the media dont jump on Jackson for this. It wasn't his fault we lost.

i will tell you who are not potential lions

Keith Earls - Fast but incapabale of passing on the run and executing a 2 and 1. Shocking at this level criminal. Has not improved his skill levels one iota since he came on the scene and he wants to be an international centre. he can get the boat
Rob Kearney - Massively out of form
Jamie Heaslip - Been a disaster as captain and is getting worse year on year. Terrible appointment.
tim visser - fionn carr ran over him on numerous occasions in the rabo in murrayfield. will end up playing for the Ajax select 15 if he does not learn how to tackle

The stats are fun
Scotland ..................................................... Ireland
29% (25%/34%) Possession (1H/2H) 71% (75%/66%)
23% (14%/31%) Territory (1H/2H) 77% (86%/69%)


0 Clean breaks .................. 4
4 Defenders beaten ............ 16
1 Offloads ........................ 7


Weir made the most metres of any of the scotland team

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/133790.html

Notch wrote:

Gibson wrote:I said it before so dont attack me, Paddy J, is not and never will be, International class. Best be honest about it. I felt so sorry for him out there. Kidney fed him to the lions.

Don't you think it's ridiculous to say that? I mean, he's already a better 10 than ROG or Sexton were at the same age... and he has another 13, 14 years of rugby ahead of him! He actually played well today bar place kicking and one missed touch.

I have to say it Notch, I told ye so. He doesnt have it. What else does he bring to the table at this level? Nowt. Sorry man, but comparing anyone to ROG now, is a pointless argument.

I dont want to have an online ruck. Also pointless. Marshall and Gilroy have it in them. Be happy with that breakthough. Hope that shows Im not a provincial racist. Its just my opinion.

Logging off now buddy. Best discuss after another, but closer, watch of the game, as is my wont.

What did Jackson actually do wrong other than goalkicking? He tackled well, he kicked very well from hand bar once, he threatened the line and most importantly he wasn't ROG. He should start the next match with Madigan on the bench.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Im hope the media dont jump on Jackson for this. It wasn't his fault we lost.

Not totally his fault but his atrocious performance with the boot was a massive reason Ireland loss.

I doubt the media will lay the blame at his door, I assume Kidney will be the target!

Kidneys reign HAS to be seen as a failure. This Ireland team has been simply awful under him.

Scotland 12 Ireland 8. Never saw that coming. Although i did expect Scotland to make a good game of it, never did i expect them to win the game.

Surely now after this game Ronan Ogara has too go. He has not been his best for a long time now. ..This game has proven at least one thing it is time for him to retire gracefully from International rugby.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There you have the Ronan O'Gara legacy. Anything good he ever did is being totally undone by this comedy of errors. He is now one of the worst professional players I have ever seen on a rugby pitch. That is no exaggeration, anyone who has been watching him for Munster and Ireland over the past few seasons will have seen the same.

I'm not surprised he didn't feel like performing again, with fans like you and rodders.

NeilyBroon wrote:Well.. all I can say is sorry Ireland for such a jammy win!

Quite how we won that is beyond me. I nearly had a cardiac arrest!

I think we need to make a few personnel changes next week but, well game on!

Jesus man don't apologise. Scots fans deserve some success. Mention for Geoff cross who proved a lot of people (myself included) wrong. Suspect Hamilton/Gray behind them is factor

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There you have the Ronan O'Gara legacy. Anything good he ever did is being totally undone by this comedy of errors. He is now one of the worst professional players I have ever seen on a rugby pitch. That is no exaggeration, anyone who has been watching him for Munster and Ireland over the past few seasons will have seen the same.

I'm not surprised he didn't feel like performing again, with fans like you and rodders.

Been saying that for years!

Anyone watching the Red Button Forum? Pundits saying Hogg (and Halfpenny) for Lions fullbacks.

Amazing win for Scotland, we've been in the position of deserving to win but failing to do so often enough so I'll take that one.
Johnson is very realistic in his comments about the Scotland team, we have a long way to go yet before we can expect to win on a regular basis but we are getting there now. Some team changes certainly needed, Jackson isn't the answer at 10, he simply can't kick well enough from hand, we need to go with Weir and Heathcote now and we need to improve the breakdown asap.
I also have to say well done to Cross, I didn't expect him to scrummage as well as he did.

Just to add: Heaslip needs a kick in the arse as a player. And he is not a Captain. Sexton or Best for me.
Where was Kearney? Where was BOD? Best had his worst game in a green shirt ever. He has been our best and most consistent player for 2 years now. .Earls would be dropped by any objective coach. The on-field leaders did not lead.


And oh yeah, the Coach. He just waffles on and on and on...

I am quietly happy in a perverse way. Its time.

George Carlin wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Pretty sure Jackson will be scapegoated but in reality it was our ore experienced players let us down. That and an ability not to take our chances.

Luke Marshall was guilty of throwing a really poor scoring pass
Keith Earls was guilty of choosing not to pass.

Credit to Scotland though they scrapped for everything, took their chances and destroyed our set piece. On that basis they deserved the win.

From a Irish pov disappointed in

Court
Kilcoyne
Best
Jacksons kicking
ROGs cameo was disastrous
SOB


Pleased with

Gilroy
Marshall
Our attacking Play in the first half.
Heaslips best game for a while

Overall there are positives and take nothing away from Scotland who were clinical.

I said prior to the game this would decide kidneys future and he is now a goner. It's a shame because it was a positive selection but he is paying the price for past sins not that selection IMO

Fair analysis, Stand. I keep replaying that butchred two on one in my mind.

I don't think Maitland and Hogg could believe it when they realised he'd tucked it under his arm and was actually going to stick to the outside.

I don't understand the criticism. BOD was too far behind. Not enough pace in support.

this thread will hit 1000 replies this week. It is very simple the players and their level of performance has not been good enough but Kidney is the coach and is accountable for a very poor 4 year reign in which we have gone backwards. Grand Slam was a great start but we have been crap since then

the anger has now passed. I will not have any emotional attachment to this team until we have a new coach.

I do get irritated by the absolute guff spouted by 90% of rugby "journalists" in ireland.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Kidneys reign HAS to be seen as a failure. This Ireland team has been simply awful under him.

Actually us non Irish fans would deem him a huge success.

Seriously though, the French will love getting their first win off youse.

Gibson wrote:Just to add: Heaslip needs a kick in the arse as a player. And he not a Captain.

I've been saying that since he was appointed as captain. I really don't see why he was chosen.

Gibson wrote:

Notch wrote:

Gibson wrote:I said it before so dont attack me, Paddy J, is not and never will be, International class. Best be honest about it. I felt so sorry for him out there. Kidney fed him to the lions.

Don't you think it's ridiculous to say that? I mean, he's already a better 10 than ROG or Sexton were at the same age... and he has another 13, 14 years of rugby ahead of him! He actually played well today bar place kicking and one missed touch.

I have to say it Notch, I told ye so. He doesnt have it. What else does he bring to the table at this level? Nowt. Sorry man, but comparing anyone to ROG now, is a pointless argument.

I don't know what you're talking about... he had a good game ball in hand, taking to the line. He'll only get better. And most importantly, he has the goods mentally.

Heaslip...from potent carrier at 8 , likely Lions skipper, Irish Capt over BOD....to ignominy, unlikely to tour at the moment!