Ireland Vs Scotland - Injurymageddan vs Resurgence

First topic message reminder :

UPDATED - Ireland 29 Man Squad Announced:

Hooker- Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
Props- David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,

Second Row- Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Henderson, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner
Backrow - Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, James Coughlan,

Scrumhalf - Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Flyhalf- Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,

Centre- Brian O'Driscoll, Keith Earls, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Wings- Craig Gilroy, Fergus McFadden, Luke Fitzgerald,
FullBack- Rob Kearney, Robin Henshaw

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So with Darcy now out, where will Deccie be forced to go? I think we all realize he will go with ROG and use the Darcy injury as even more excuse to stay with a “wise” old head at outhalf. Below I put in what I believe Deccie will put down as the starting line-up and below that my selection. Just to clarify, either team is capable of beating Scotland as we all know that we can show up and randomly, erraticly beat nearly anyone, but I believe my team has the benefit of win or lose being a team that starts to prove out whether the young players we all have such hopes for can do a job for us.

Deccie (Total Starting Caps, 663, 363 Backs, 300 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 McFadden (16)
13 Earls (36)
12 O’Driscoll (122)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 ROG (127)
9 Murray (16)
8 Heaslip (54)
7 SOB (24)
6 POM (11)
5 Ryan (25)
4 DOC (92)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Kilcoyne (4)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Court (29), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 Henderson (2), 20 Henry (6), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 Fitz (49)
Bench Caps: 162

Me (Total Starting Caps, 394, 207 Backs, 187 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)


16 Cronin (24), 17 Kilcoyne (4), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 DOC (92), 20 Heaslip (54), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 McFadden (16)
Bench Caps: 242

Fair enough Stand. We do have a solid core of 20-somethings who have the right stuff. Marshall looked like he had been wearing a green shirt for years. Some are born to it, he most definitely is. I saw him talking intensely to BOD mid-shambles. BOD smiled knowingly. I believe we may have found our 12. McFadden and he should be let fight it out.

Even though it would temporarily devastate Leinster (cant believe Im saying this), the one guaranteed way to get this group of young players playing to the max by RWC2015, is to offer Joe Schmidt and Jonno Gibbes a Kings ransom to take it on. Feek could double-job.

The answer is there in front of our very eyes.

Do you know what Gibson, you're exactly right... Schmidt and Gibbes. That's what we need. It'll be heroic if the IRFU actually have the balls to do it, and not go for one of the yes men á lá Ruddock or Axel... Imagine giving the lads the confidence to go and play the game, but at the same time using the basics right.

And Luke is class. Just need someone on his shoulder. Imagine if Tommy had been fit. Or Fitzy/Trimble in the starting XV. They would have been there.....

If I were a betting man I'd reckon Radge will start the next one with PJ dropping out.

But if I had the choice, and McCarthy is fit

1.Court 2.Best 3.Ross 4.Ryan 5.McCarthy 6.Henderson 7.O'Brien 8.Heaslip
9.Murray 10.Jackson 11.McFadden 12.Luke M 13.BOD 14.Gilroy 15.Kearney
16.Cronin 17.Killer 18. Fitzp 19.Tuohy 20.POM 21.Reddan 22.Madigan 23.Fitzy

Don't be too harsh on Kidney, not even sabotage could have conspired that kind of fuuk up of missed opprtunities.

BOD should get to slap Earls about until he understands what he did wrong. Stop and think, there's not a lot wrong with that team, you missed Healy. Marshall was excellent, Gilroy looks an accomplised international as well as a 12yr old. You've been unlucky twice.

I don't know about Schmidt. I don't mean from a coaching perspective but I get the feeling we need to go for someone outside of Irish rugby (totally). That's not to say i wouldn't be delighted if he got it. I just can't explain it. Not so sure about feek in truth though.

The next coach needs to look at about 40 odd players who could make up our RWC squad and be given the license to work with them

Healy/kilcoyne
Best/Strauss/sherry
Ross/Furlong
Ryan/Tuohy?
Henderson/McCarthy
POM/
O'Brien/Henry
Heaslip/Murphy
Murray/Marmion
Sexton/Jackson
Gilroy/Fitz
Marshall/Hanrahan
Farrell/Henshaw
Bowe/Earls
Kearney/Zebo

There are 29 players off the top of my head who look to have potential to be or already are established internationals. Yes, we are ridiculously short at TH, lock is an issue and backrow is waiting for some breakthroughs to come but there is serious talent out there when you think of the names I haven't even included. We have never had so much depth IMO and while we are short in some places no international teams are immune from that with the possible exception of NZ.

It's a massively important 9months coming up, the coaching ticket needs to be perfect.

Have to say - I could get used to reading the opposition having a post mortem on their team on here for a change!

I've run out of things to talk about!

I have followed Scotland for many a year and cannot remember a win so ill deserved. We have been unlucky too many times - perhaps this is the payoff and all our good luck came at once.

Not much to say about the Scotland performance. Some good lineout steals, great scrum even pushing Ireland back to a pen on their own ball. rubbish at the breakdown again, Laidlaw looks to be coming back to his best.

I shall enjoy the win but we still need at least one more win to say we have turned a corner. Nice to look at the 6N table today

TJ wrote:I have followed Scotland for many a year and cannot remember a win so ill deserved. We have been unlucky too many times - perhaps this is the payoff and all our good luck came at once.

Not much to say about the Scotland performance. Some good lineout steals, great scrum even pushing Ireland back to a pen on their own ball. rubbish at the breakdown again, Laidlaw looks to be coming back to his best.

I shall enjoy the win but we still need at least one more win to say we have turned a corner. Nice to look at the 6N table today

Agreed TJ. That was a jammy win if ever I saw one!

This said I'm still happy, although I don't think we'll beat Wales. Although if our rucks are sorted (perhaps bring back the killer b's, sorry Harley, you're good but we need an openside), then I can see us at least challenging.

Its still early days but there's a lot more promise than I've seen in... well as long as I've followed rugby!

I want to see it again, but I still think that BOD was not in a good enough position to recieve the pass.
In saying that, Earls maybe should have took the foot off the gas and allowed for support to reach him.

I'm trying to figure out why BOD was the only support runner anyway.

I think we are a bit harsh on earls. It was a fantastic break. A clinical team would have finished the job with quick ball from the breakdown of a break like that.

We couldnt finish the job becausevearls got bundled into touch. To single him out is wrong as their were f**k ups from numerous experienced players bu that passage from him was criminal

BOd was in the perfect position to take a scoring pass at one point. A simple pass would have put BOD in untouched. A 2:1 overlap should always be scored

However you cannot blame Earls for the loss - plenty of other chances were missed as well - the captain takes some blame for kicking to the corner and other backs were culpable as well

Certains things are clearer the day after:

1. Picking Jackson (who broadly did fine, bless his socks) wasn't the problem, it was asking him to kick the goals that was the Deccie-tastically stupid call. Surely to feic the first name on your teamsheet after the captain is your goalkicker. The only possible rationale for this was that Deccie thought that Ireland's try scoring would have won the match by itself.

2. Heaslip made some bad calls as captain. Not telling ROG to knock over the 3 points with 5 minutes to go was properly mental and not like the Ireland of old at all. Ireland of 2009 would have backed themselves to take the restart, truck it upfield and smack ove the drop goal.

3. Ireland should never have been in a position where they had to use Jackson. ROG fading away and Sexton getting injured was the perfect storm for Elmer Fudd, but surely it was a foreseeable one? The All Blacks had Cruden ready in the wings and Farrell understudied Flood in the national training squad for quite some time.

4. Lots of Ireland fans are underestimating how good Scotland's set piece is and did so before the match as well. Lots of the Irish papers still seem unable to comprehend why two 20 stone men of 6'8" and 6'10" might, in fact, be quite a good boiler room.

5. It is alway gracious of fans to recall how many times Scotland have been on the arse end of a result like that over the years. It is appreciated.

6. The point with Kidney now is that the Ireland team deserve better than he can provide. Schmidt would be a superb call - everything he touches turns to gold. We'll fight you for him.

Standulstermen wrote:Pretty sure Jackson will be scapegoated but in reality it was our ore experienced players let us down. That and an ability not to take our chances.

Of course he will because he's an easy target but lets get real, he isn't the front range kicker for Ulster and hasn't been striking the ball well recently so its no real surprise that his kicking display wasn't up to scratch.

However if people look back at his whole performance his distribution and defence were excellent. In fact his performance was on par with most of Sextons Irish displays, good around the park but place kicking not good enough.

He effected and excellent turnover on Laidlaw and also created Marshalls 1st half break with excellent sleight of hand.

I think part of the problem with Jackson is that Pienaar takes on too much responsibility at Ulster. Jacksons kicking game was notivebly better in the Autumn before Pienaar came back.

Rather than needing to play with Pienaar, as many people say, I actually think Jackson needs to play without him.

George Carlin wrote:Certains things are clearer the day after:

1. Picking Jackson (who broadly did fine, bless his socks) wasn't the problem, it was asking him to kick the goals that was the Deccie-tastically stupid call. Surely to feic the first name on your teamsheet after the captain is your goalkicker. The only possible rationale for this was that Deccie thought that Ireland's try scoring would have won the match by itself.

2. Heaslip made some bad calls as captain. Not telling ROG to knock over the 3 points with 5 minutes to go was properly mental and not like the Ireland of old at all. Ireland of 2009 would have backed themselves to take the restart, truck it upfield and smack ove the drop goal.

3. Ireland should never have been in a position where they had to use Jackson. ROG fading away and Sexton getting injured was the perfect storm for Elmer Fudd, but surely it was a foreseeable one? The All Blacks had Cruden ready in the wings and Farrell understudied Flood in the national training squad for quite some time.

4. Lots of Ireland fans are underestimating how good Scotland's set piece is and did so before the match as well. Lots of the Irish papers still seem unable to comprehend why two 20 stone men of 6'8" and 6'10" might, in fact, be quite a good boiler room.

5. It is alway gracious of fans to recall how many times Scotland have been on the arse end of a result like that over the years. It is appreciated.

6. The point with Kidney now is that the Ireland team deserve better than he can provide. Schmidt would be a superb call - everything he touches turns to gold. We'll fight you for him.

Great post, enjoy a well deserved win George. Scotland have been underperforming for years so its good to see that things are on the up. Some very good players there.

rodders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Certains things are clearer the day after:

1. Picking Jackson (who broadly did fine, bless his socks) wasn't the problem, it was asking him to kick the goals that was the Deccie-tastically stupid call. Surely to feic the first name on your teamsheet after the captain is your goalkicker. The only possible rationale for this was that Deccie thought that Ireland's try scoring would have won the match by itself.

2. Heaslip made some bad calls as captain. Not telling ROG to knock over the 3 points with 5 minutes to go was properly mental and not like the Ireland of old at all. Ireland of 2009 would have backed themselves to take the restart, truck it upfield and smack ove the drop goal.

3. Ireland should never have been in a position where they had to use Jackson. ROG fading away and Sexton getting injured was the perfect storm for Elmer Fudd, but surely it was a foreseeable one? The All Blacks had Cruden ready in the wings and Farrell understudied Flood in the national training squad for quite some time.

4. Lots of Ireland fans are underestimating how good Scotland's set piece is and did so before the match as well. Lots of the Irish papers still seem unable to comprehend why two 20 stone men of 6'8" and 6'10" might, in fact, be quite a good boiler room.

5. It is alway gracious of fans to recall how many times Scotland have been on the arse end of a result like that over the years. It is appreciated.

6. The point with Kidney now is that the Ireland team deserve better than he can provide. Schmidt would be a superb call - everything he touches turns to gold. We'll fight you for him.

Great post, enjoy a well deserved win George. Scotland have been underperforming for years so its good to see that things are on the up. Some very good players there.

A gent as always Rodders.

One of the best things is actually that our coaching staff aren't coming out with any puff for the press. We all know that was Escape to Victory and absolutely nobody on the Scotland side is pretending it's anything else. Great quote from Sean Lamont to a Welsh journo outside the stadium about Johnson - "he's both funny and right, so here's the first coach that I don't mind getting a bollocking from". Not a bad place to be in with your coach, particuarly in comparison to the honourable director of rugby at Bristol who had lost the changing room by the end.

I know it will seem all negative for Ireland till the end of the tournament, but it shouldn't. Marshall looked like the real deal and Gilroy was astonishingly accomplished under the high ball - Laidlaw is a very good box kicker but the youngster didn't drop anything all day. SOB also made a massive number of carries and should be in a Lions XXIII somewhere.