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Lions: If BOD is not nominated as captain, will he tour?

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:29 pm

I'm not sure that BOD has it in him to be a potential bench warmer or worse, a dirt tracker.

Still early doors with three games to play in the 6Ns before Warren makes his call but current odds are favouring Robshaw http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/lions-tour/british-and-irish-lions-tour/to-be-named-captain . Still very early doors.

But I don't see BOD touring if he's not skipper.


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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:41 pm

I personaly dont think BOD will tour any way to be honest.

I think being a new Daddy he would want too stay at home and call it a day after this years 6ns.

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Post by fa0019 Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:44 pm

BOD isn't the hinge on whether or not this tour is a success or not... No player is and no player has ever been... And there have been far greater lions then BOD.

He can't and won't demand to be made captain. It's a team sport and he may just play better without the weight of the captaincy around his neck.

Gatland is his own man, he won't have someone blackmailing him. If he offers the captaincy then he will do so if he thinks he's the man for the job.

You don't get a test spot through your status... You get it through earning it during the tour. He knows that and won't make demands that no player would ever make.

I think he'll tour if asked... He's never won a lions series and only been on the winning side once out of six matches. He won't make the next World Cup in all probability, this is last chance to win a major rugby series.

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:48 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I personaly dont think BOD will tour any way to be honest.

I think being a new Daddy he would want too stay at home and call it a day after this years 6ns.

Possibly madge, but if that were the case, would he not have said so - just to put Gatland's mind at rest?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:50 pm

Is Robshaw in pole position? I would say Best is.
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Post by fa0019 Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:54 pm

If BOD had won a lions tour then I may have said yes... But the lions is an area where he has not seen the success we might have expected from him.

He's a competitor, a fighter and isn't just going to say, we'll I gave it my best shot etc etc etc.

Why bother playing test rugby this season if he can't go on the biggest test series of the year? If you ask him I'd bet he'd say that playing for the lions supersedes playing in the 6N.

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Sun 17 Feb 2013, 7:55 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Is Robshaw in pole position? I would say Best is.

Personally I agree with you bedford. But I just quoted the bookies odds.

But as I've made it transparently clear elsewhere, I strongly disagree that the skipper should be guaranteed a test place. And so it goes with Besty.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 9:29 am

fa0019 wrote:If BOD had won a lions tour then I may have said yes... But the lions is an area where he has not seen the success we might have expected from him.

He's a competitor, a fighter and isn't just going to say, we'll I gave it my best shot etc etc etc.

Why bother playing test rugby this season if he can't go on the biggest test series of the year? If you ask him I'd bet he'd say that playing for the lions supersedes playing in the 6N.

Winning a Lions tour isnt the acid test as to whether you are a good Lion or not. You already said that no Lions tour hindges on any one player so surely you can play exceptionally well as he did in Australia and South Africa and still lose. He lit up the Lions tour to Australia and he was ridiculously good in SA. Cant ask for much more than that.

Your two posts kinda contradict themselves.

What do you think of Pistorious? What surprises me most is how hot his girlfriend was. What a cracker!!

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 9:51 am

He did well in AUS and ok in SA although I think he'll look back and think... he should have done better (perhaps if he had a 3 match turn in 05 during his peak years we would have seen this).

I myself was slightly disappointed with him in SA. Massive in defence... I think Russouw is still feeling the affects but thought he should have done more with the ball and exploited Jacobs weak defence... something the Lions never looked to do.

But thats history.

I wouldn't say BOD was the only one who lit up the 01 tour.... guys like Quinnell & Robinson were equally strong.

Reading about him though this year gives the impression its the one area he wants to put right.

There are many a great lions players from losing series but they get easily forgotton. Ask Emack and he'll say the best lions team he's ever seen was the 55 tour I think???

But the 71 & 74 sides are better remembered because series wins are rare.... very rare.

Pistorious... dude, its such a tragedy. Some crazy revelations coming out in the papers but its all unsubstantiated reports though so you don't know what to think. When the Police get so badly paid as they do in SA I wouldn't be surprised if a few are spinning a few yarns just to get money in their pockets from enthusiastic journalists looking for a story.

Before you make your mind up on Pistorius I would ask anybody to read about the case of a guy called Fred van der Vyver... he was wrongly convicted of his girlfriends murder a few years back, convicted through police corruption and lies only. Thats what's it can be like here.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 18 Feb 2013, 9:53 am

Strange question? - BOD is beyond some immature suggestion that if I'm not Captain I won't go. BOD will have a captains presence if he goes irrespective as he is respected and revered by all of the of the home nations and the SH nations for that matter thumbsup

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 10:14 am

fa0019 wrote:

Pistorious... dude, its such a tragedy. Some crazy revelations coming out in the papers but its all unsubstantiated reports though so you don't know what to think. When the Police get so badly paid as they do in SA I wouldn't be surprised if a few are spinning a few yarns just to get money in their pockets from enthusiastic journalists looking for a story.

Before you make your mind up on Pistorius I would ask anybody to read about the case of a guy called Fred van der Vyver... he was wrongly convicted of his girlfriends murder a few years back, convicted through police corruption and lies only. Thats what's it can be like here.

It is sad. His life is over and what a life he had made for himself. My cousin is also a paralympic athlete (for GB) and had met him a few times, said he was nice. Really strange story. Latest is that banned steriods were found in his house. Steriods can cause rage cant they? Like you say its impossible to know what to believe. Anyway was just curious cause you live in SA. Thank you for your comments.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 10:18 am

RubyGuby wrote:Strange question? - BOD is beyond some immature suggestion that if I'm not Captain I won't go. BOD will have a captains presence if he goes irrespective as he is respected and revered by all of the of the home nations and the SH nations for that matter thumbsup

Strange that this wasnt an issue when he went on the last Lions tour and his understudy as captain in Ireland was elected tour captain.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 18 Feb 2013, 10:21 am

That's because it's not an issue thumbsup

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 18 Feb 2013, 10:48 am

GunsGerms wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Strange question? - BOD is beyond some immature suggestion that if I'm not Captain I won't go. BOD will have a captains presence if he goes irrespective as he is respected and revered by all of the of the home nations and the SH nations for that matter thumbsup

Strange that this wasnt an issue when he went on the last Lions tour and his understudy as captain in Ireland was elected tour captain.

I agree it is a strange question. But this tour is definitely is his last one for the Lions.

I think that if he's good enough to tour then he'd make a decent skipper. But on the (rare) occasion I've seen him this year off the pitch he's seemed to me just al tad to anxious to end his career on a magnificent high.
So the question is pertinent. If not selected as skipper, would he be a good tourist? Could he be a bench warmer or dirt-tracker or would he prefer to be at home?

I really don't know. He's not even definitely currently the best 13 in the Isles.

I wonder - had this not been a Lions year - would he have thrown his toys out of the pram when he lost the Irish captaincy and just packed it all in?

In the two interviews I've seen since the 6Ns build-up he's appeared a bit sulky.

Does he just want to be centre stage or will he be happy to be in the chorus line? I suspect the former.



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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 10:59 am

greytiger wrote:

I really don't know. He's not even definitely currently the best 13 in the Isles.

I wonder - had this not been a Lions year - would he have thrown his toys out of the pram when he lost the Irish captaincy and just packed it all in?

In the two interviews I've seen since the 6Ns build-up he's appeared a bit sulky.

Does he just want to be centre stage or will he be happy to be in the chorus line? I suspect the former.


Who is the best 13? Tuilagi? He has hardly played and when he has he certainly didnt play as well as BOD v Wales for example.

To what extent can Tuilagi be trusted anyway. He has a history of wreckless play on the field with numerous citings and some incredibly silly off field antics on tour. Would that not be a concern for you?

Drico is always very comfortable to take second stage anyway. He has three Heineken cup medals in which the MOTM award went to a team mate. One to Elsom, one to Sexton and one to SOB. Each time I saw him interviewed after the match he lavished praise on his star team mate just as he did with Jamie Roberts when they made a great partnership in the '09 Lions series.

Drico has always been an ultimate professional and team player. He is also holds the record for most caps as captain so why wouldnt he lament losing the role, anyone would. It might not be obvious at times but he is human.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:09 am

To me, before we start thinking about O'Driscoll as captain, the question is whether he will survive the 6 Nations in shape to tour. He is still on the back of a recent injury. So, let's see.

However, if he does get through playing O'Driscoll-like Rugby, then he goes on tour. Kind of paraphrasing RubyGuby, he would be another leader amongst other leaders on the pitch. And I would presume, he would be one of the main guys talking to the media, something he does extremely well.

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Post by dummy_half Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:23 am

doctor_grey wrote:To me, before we start thinking about O'Driscoll as captain, the question is whether he will survive the 6 Nations in shape to tour. He is still on the back of a recent injury. So, let's see.

However, if he does get through playing O'Driscoll-like Rugby, then he goes on tour. Kind of paraphrasing RubyGuby, he would be another leader amongst other leaders on the pitch. And I would presume, he would be one of the main guys talking to the media, something he does extremely well.

Spot on. If BOD is fully fit when the Lions are picked he's an absolute certainty for the squad - my big concern is with the 'if fully fit' part, especially given how many Irish players are getting injured and BOD's tendency (a la Wilkinson) to try and make up for weaknesses elsewhere by doing even more of the physical work. Defending between Earls (lightweight) and ROG (barely even a speed bump) is not likely to be good for his health.

I personally like the idea of him going as captain, but even if not he will be a very important leader within the squad. Cricketers describe the role as 'senior professional', the guy that the captain or anyone else can turn to for a bit of advise and help when things maybe aren't going perfectly.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:27 am

Does or would naming a squad captain but one who is not neccessarily gauranteed a test starting spot work?
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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:33 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Does or would naming a squad captain but one who is not neccessarily gauranteed a test starting spot work?

Very few of the guarenteed starters are captain material. Whoever Gatland picks as captain we can assume is going to start the first test at the very least. If we win the first test and the captain doesnt get injured then they should start the second as captain.

If we lose then I see no reason why anyone could be dropped including the captain. I dont see it as a major issue.

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Post by rodders Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:36 am

doctor_grey wrote:To me, before we start thinking about O'Driscoll as captain, the question is whether he will survive the 6 Nations in shape to tour. He is still on the back of a recent injury. So, let's see.

However, if he does get through playing O'Driscoll-like Rugby, then he goes on tour. Kind of paraphrasing RubyGuby, he would be another leader amongst other leaders on the pitch. And I would presume, he would be one of the main guys talking to the media, something he does extremely well.

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Post by thomh Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:54 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Who is the best 13? Tuilagi? He has hardly played and when he has he certainly didnt play as well as BOD v Wales for example.

To what extent can Tuilagi be trusted anyway. He has a history of wreckless play on the field with numerous citings and some incredibly silly off field antics on tour. Would that not be a concern for you?

The citings and ferry jump are ancient history in terms of his career, and he was no worse than BOD in the Ireland vs England game. His performance against NZ was on another level to other centres this season, so even if he doesn't quite get his sharpness back this tournament he's too good to leave out. He has the Heineken Cup 1/4s to try to prove himself as well.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 11:59 am

+1 Thomh

As much as Tuilagi could be seen to be wreckless you can say the same about BOD. Lets not make the guy out to be an angel, his hit on Russouw could easily have been yellow or perhaps worse.

The lions were up at the time (ROG wasn't on the pitch) and it potentially could have lost the lions the match and the series.

In the end due to ROG's genius it didn't matter anyhow.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:02 pm

[quote="thomh"]
GunsGerms wrote:

The citings and ferry jump are ancient history in terms of his career, and he was no worse than BOD in the Ireland vs England game. His performance against NZ was on another level to other centres this season, so even if he doesn't quite get his sharpness back this tournament he's too good to leave out. He has the Heineken Cup 1/4s to try to prove himself as well.

I agree, I just wanted to highlight that if you were going to leave out one player for silly reasons then you could probably leave out lots of other players.

Yes Tuilagi was as good as BOD in the Ireland v England game but my point was he has played a half a game so how can you say for sure he is a much better option than BOD right now, especially given how good BOD was v Wales.

England played very well in general in the NZ match but not so good in the AIs in general. same can be said of Tuilagi.

Basically if they both come through the 6N unscathed it is fairly likely they will both tour.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:04 pm

Tuilagi - I saw one comment on a lions thread marking him down because he fluffed two try scoring chances.

I didnt watch every minute of every game but - other than Scott - how many try scoring chances did any other Lion's center have - and Tuilagi got his chances over a few brief minutes in a forward and weather dominated match.

In truth its not a great example - and based solely on 6N performances of course you cant pick him - but he is a bit special.

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Post by Solid8 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:06 pm

greytiger wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Is Robshaw in pole position? I would say Best is.

Personally I agree with you bedford. But I just quoted the bookies odds.

But as I've made it transparently clear elsewhere, I strongly disagree that the skipper should be guaranteed a test place. And so it goes with Besty.

Hasn't Gatland already confirmed that he is looking at having a tour captain and a test captain?

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:06 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Does or would naming a squad captain but one who is not neccessarily gauranteed a test starting spot work?

Very few of the guarenteed starters are captain material. Whoever Gatland picks as captain we can assume is going to start the first test at the very least. If we win the first test and the captain doesnt get injured then they should start the second as captain.

If we lose then I see no reason why anyone could be dropped including the captain. I dont see it as a major issue.

That's not the way it works Guns. The opposition has to drop the skipper for him to be replaced.
Lions skippers are anointed as ever-present. It's a heritage thing.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:08 pm

fa0019 wrote:+1 Thomh

As much as Tuilagi could be seen to be wreckless you can say the same about BOD. Lets not make the guy out to be an angel, his hit on Russouw could easily have been yellow or perhaps worse.

The lions were up at the time (ROG wasn't on the pitch) and it potentially could have lost the lions the match and the series.

In the end due to ROG's genius it didn't matter anyhow.

Why would it have been a yellow? Offside? Bit harsh to get a yellow for that it was just a big tackle. In many ways it sums up BODs enduring physicality and comittment smashing someone twice his size in a thundering tackle.

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Post by thomh Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:08 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
I agree, I just wanted to highlight that if you were going to leave out one player for silly reasons then you could probably leave out lots of other players.

Yes Tuilagi was as good as BOD in the Ireland v England game but my point was he has played a half a game so how can you say for sure he is a much better option than BOD right now, especially given how good BOD was v Wales.

I wasn't trying to say that he's a better option for sure, just that it's not fair to compare his one half against Ireland to BOD's performance against Wales, when Tuilagi has played a hell of a lot better than that this season, and BOD followed it up with a performance that was a hell of a lot worse. I actually thought Tuilagi played well all autumn despite the briefly fashionable calls to shift him to the wing, but neither of them has played enough rugby recently to make a firm declaration on who is a better option. BOD needs to make it to the tour in one piece for a start.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:12 pm

greytiger wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Does or would naming a squad captain but one who is not neccessarily gauranteed a test starting spot work?

Very few of the guarenteed starters are captain material. Whoever Gatland picks as captain we can assume is going to start the first test at the very least. If we win the first test and the captain doesnt get injured then they should start the second as captain.

If we lose then I see no reason why anyone could be dropped including the captain. I dont see it as a major issue.

That's not the way it works Guns. The opposition has to drop the skipper for him to be replaced.
Lions skippers are anointed as ever-present. It's a heritage thing.

I know but I see no reason why it cant work that way. Woodward was given licence to change things around a bit for the NZ tour. I think Gatland is a strong enough personality to introduce some new thinking himself. I actually dont really think he gives a sh1t about tradition or who he pi$$es off provided we win.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:12 pm

thomh wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
I agree, I just wanted to highlight that if you were going to leave out one player for silly reasons then you could probably leave out lots of other players.

Yes Tuilagi was as good as BOD in the Ireland v England game but my point was he has played a half a game so how can you say for sure he is a much better option than BOD right now, especially given how good BOD was v Wales.

I wasn't trying to say that he's a better option for sure, just that it's not fair to compare his one half against Ireland to BOD's performance against Wales, when Tuilagi has played a hell of a lot better than that this season, and BOD followed it up with a performance that was a hell of a lot worse. I actually thought Tuilagi played well all autumn despite the briefly fashionable calls to shift him to the wing, but neither of them has played enough rugby recently to make a firm declaration on who is a better option. BOD needs to make it to the tour in one piece for a start.

Ok

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Post by 100%beefy Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:14 pm

Gatland did intimate he would pick a tour skipper and a playing skipper but I think the inevitable press story will be how unsure he is blah blah blah so he shoudl pick a squad and then pick a team and then pick a capt. If he does that he can dismiss the speculation and allow the Capt to evolve...as long as it is BOD.

TBH the only other player i would have Capt now is Robshaw....Heaslip is pretty average right now, Warburton may not even tour let alone get picked for a test match and Robshaw seems to me to be leader of the moment.

The fact is that rugby currently has an issue with leaders...your Johnson's, Dallaglio's, Thomases and POX type of player with character are few and far between

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:14 pm

GunsGerms

It was a thunderous tackle... but it was just shy of his neck and he never attempted to wrap his arms around him. As close to a closeline as it could be without it actually being one.

I loved it at the time but once I calmed down it was a clear penalty.

I've seen guys get yellows for that easy.

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Post by rodders Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:24 pm

Yer bollix he's clearly going for a ball and all tackle but because of Russows size and the impact he bounces off. On a smaller man that is a perfect chest high hit.

The fact that his arms are swinging forwards as they collide is evidence that there is a clear attempt at a wrap around.
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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:34 pm

Its not an excuse to say he was too big to wrap his arms around. He's been around just as big guys for his whole career.

Russouw would not have been knocked near out if he had hit him legitimately and given BOD himself went off due to the same tackle, perhaps the lions would have gone on to win the game.

Its not a criticism of his play... it was a almighty collision but he was lucky not to have been penalised.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:40 pm

He'd look a massive toot if he didnt. Its pretty obvious that Fatland would double check players availability first before selecting them anyway. The only thing likely to stop him being Captain is fitness at this point, and again he isnt going to get named captain if he isnt fit.

The only time in recent history I can remember someone turning down a major international tour was Julian White and his late call up to the 2007 world cup.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 1:21 pm

fa0019 wrote:GunsGerms

It was a thunderous tackle... but it was just shy of his neck and he never attempted to wrap his arms around him. As close to a closeline as it could be without it actually being one.

I loved it at the time but once I calmed down it was a clear penalty.

I've seen guys get yellows for that easy.

It either was a clothes line or it wasnt. Just shy of his neck is not his neck and therefore a legal tackle. Really dont think there was much wong with it. Maybe his arms didnt wrap completly around Roussou but he almost knocked himself out making the tackle so really not sure the intent was anything but to put in a bruising tackle.

You kinda seem to be clutching at straws a bit whan it comes to Drico but thats just my impression.

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Post by aitchw Mon 18 Feb 2013, 1:55 pm

BOD is way too much a team man to refuse a Lions shirt for a reason like that. He will just play his heart out for his nation and let it take him whereever it leads. If he has serious worries about his physical condition then I could see him decline the tour but he won't do it without a very good reason.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 18 Feb 2013, 2:21 pm

I think that the Lions captain almost certainly will have to be someone who is already captaining their national side.
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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 2:26 pm

GunsGerms

All I said was that BOD is no angel when it comes to the physical stuff when someone said Tuilagi was too reckless to start. It wasn't the height that was marginal but it was the lack of wrap around. It was an illegal tackle whether intentional or not and could have cost the Lions dearly (didn't matter in the end). As I've said before I I've seen many get yellow's for that type of tackle... a proper tackle shouldn't injury anyone (outside of being on the end of a hospital pass)... that one injured both.

No point in debating with some people on here... the man can do no wrong for many on here.

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Post by damage_13 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 2:49 pm

he'll only be the second player ever to say no if he does.

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Post by 100%beefy Mon 18 Feb 2013, 2:54 pm

George Carlin wrote:I think that the Lions captain almost certainly will have to be someone who is already captaining their national side.

why?

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:05 pm

fa0019 wrote:GunsGerms

All I said was that BOD is no angel when it comes to the physical stuff when someone said Tuilagi was too reckless to start. It wasn't the height that was marginal but it was the lack of wrap around. It was an illegal tackle whether intentional or not and could have cost the Lions dearly (didn't matter in the end). As I've said before I I've seen many get yellow's for that type of tackle... a proper tackle shouldn't injury anyone (outside of being on the end of a hospital pass)... that one injured both.

No point in debating with some people on here... the man can do no wrong for many on here.

You can argue that in your opinion it was illegal because sometimes there is a fine line but he wasnt penalised or cited nor did it get much attention in the media as a bad tackle, hence I'm surprised you brought it up, thats all.

It was I that called Tuilagi wreckless but this was meant to be tongue in cheek or simply to prove the point that everyone has their flaws. He is a bit of a head case but I like his volcanic personality it lends itself to exciting rugby quite nicely.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:08 pm

damage_13

who was the first?

GunsGerms

I recall it being a point that was brought up here... but the fact that SA won the day sort of lowered any requirement for further calls for punishment.... a bit like Rougerie in the RWC11 final (albeit not in the same league I'd admit). Although strangely enough the Lions did call for Bakkies punishment to be overturned which the IRB decided to ignore.

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Post by damage_13 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:12 pm

Will Carling said no, probably cos he was saying YES to Diana

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:13 pm

?

In 89... I thought he was injured?

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:15 pm

fa0019 wrote:damage_13

who was the first?

GunsGerms

I recall it being a point that was brought up here... but the fact that SA won the day sort of lowered any requirement for further calls for punishment.... a bit like Rougerie in the RWC11 final (albeit not in the same league I'd admit). Although strangely enough the Lions did call for Bakkies punishment to be overturned which the IRB decided to ignore.

I dont recall any justice for Rousseau armbands being flaunted but I do have a sieve like brain at the best of times. In any case I think it was a great tackle you thought it was illegal not much more can be said on it really.

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Post by Effervescing Elephant Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:24 pm

Was that 'squidgy-gate'?
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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:25 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/simonaustin/2009/10/heart_of_a_lion.html

From what I read it was the 97 Lions tour which he opted out of. Could he have made it on merit with centres, Guscott, Gibbs, Greenwood, Bateman and Tait??? Greenwood was uncapped but Rowell was a joke of a backs coach.

To be honest I think he would have been 5th choice at best. Probably not the way to go for a guy who was captain of his country for so long...i.e. end up the bottom of the ladder and getting smashed in the dirt trackers team for 8 weeks. I sort of understand why.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:27 pm

GunsGerms

The boks will never have the indignity to complain over the lack of action placed on a opposition player (who was out of the tour due to the tackle anyhow).

Justice4 was about their own man's ill-treatment.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 18 Feb 2013, 3:30 pm

At first glance, I thought the title of this thread was 'If BOD is not anointed as captain, will he tour?'

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