Should England prepare Slow, Raging Turning Wickets for this summer?

With the news that India comprehensively thrashed Australia in the first test on a slow and turning wicket, should England follow India's lead and do the same for our own pitches in England? For me this needs to be done due to 3 factors. Firstly Australia have a very lethal and dangerous fast bowler with such extreme pace and speed in James Pattinson. Not since Dennis Lillee in 1972 have Australia had such a pace bowler in their team with such extreme pace, hostility and menace so it is crucial that pitches need to be prepared which can somewhat reduce his bowling effectiveness when he has that new red cherry in his hand. Secondly a couple of their leading batsmen in their current test XI (particularly Warner, Hughes, Watson) don't seem to know their arse from their elbow when it comes to playing the spinning ball on slow raging turning tracks. A final and third factor is that England have 2 quality spinners currently in their squad in Swann and Panesar, whilst the Aussies are still struggling to find even one quality spinner of their own that they have full complete confidence in. Nathan Lyon currently holds the spinner's berth in their test squad, but there are still big unanswered questions about whether he really is good enough to bowl well against the top test teams in the world like what Warne, MacGill and Tim May managed to do during the golden era of Australian spin bowling from the early 1990's up until the end of Warne's international career in 2007.

I would prefer to wait until the end of the current aussie v india test series before deciding if this is a good idea. Remember after our first test v india last november it appeared that we were a team incapable of playing spin.

Is it only Pattinson you fear? What about Sid Vicious and potentially the greatest left-armer to bowl in the Ashes since Alan Mullally in Mitchell Starc?

Not a serious idea.

In English conditions even a typical spinners wicket is a far cry from the sort of pitch just seen in Chennai . Different soil , different climate. I reckon Australian batsmen - even this lot - would probably rather try their luck facing a lot of spin than handling the moving ball from England's (quite handy ) seam attack. Clarke for one eats spinners for breakfast.
Would it hamper the Australian pace men ? Yes and no : Pattinson took wickets even in this last match anyway .
Surely you aren't scared of Mitchell Johnson

England play at their best or near it ,they will win in normal English conditions , and without looking like fixers.

Cardiff last time they came over. Lets leave it there.

We arent going to see fast hard wickets though, just typical English ones Id expect.

The worst idea since Olaf the henry, king of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 20,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside.

If we do it we should go all out and play 4 spinners: Swann, Monty, Borthwick and Kerrigan would be a strong lineup with KP and Root also providing support. Trott and Bell to share the new ball.

VTR has your account been hacked by GBN?

What of Tredwell!

I can certainly see a case for a Tredwell Swann combo in the ODIs, put two spinners (Swann Panessar) is less likely in home tests, although there wil always be those in the media who want it. I guess if Woakes suddenly becomes the new Flintotham overnight they could consider a 3/2 attack...but currently the batsmen all deserve a spot and tail feels long with just 4 bowlers.

Ha ha, no I'm just getting into the spirit of this thread. Its quite easy really, just post exagerated nonsense with the odd mention of a rank bad player from the 90's (take your pick there) and you have the perfect response!

Then Australia would just pick Shane Warne and England would crumble at the mere sight of the tubby twirler. Glenn McGrath's inevitable 5-0 predo will become reality and this almost flawless plan will be completely undone!

Just prepare standard English pitches. Its how England got to where they are, why prepare a pitch which means England may not play to the best of their ability in the hope it means the Aussie's can't?

hodge wrote:Just prepare standard English pitches. Its how England got to where they are, why prepare a pitch which means England may not play to the best of their ability in the hope it means the Aussie's can't?

In any case it isn't possible to produce a Chennai-like pitch at most English grounds. Ideally we want Swann to be able to get something out of the pitch on the last couple of days but he doesn't need total dustbowls for that.

Shelsey93 wrote:

hodge wrote:Just prepare standard English pitches. Its how England got to where they are, why prepare a pitch which means England may not play to the best of their ability in the hope it means the Aussie's can't?

In any case it isn't possible to produce a Chennai-like pitch at most English grounds. Ideally we want Swann to be able to get something out of the pitch on the last couple of days but he doesn't need total dustbowls for that.

Because Australia's 2 extreme speedsters James Pattinson and Mitchell Starc will make mincemeat of our batting lineup just as what Lillee and Thomson did to England's hapless batsmen during the 1970's if the pitches have pace, bounce and considerable seam movement.

I would back our batting to do better against the Aussie's than the Saffer's bowling line up of Steyn, Philander and Morkel....

hodge wrote:I would back our batting to do better against the Aussie's than the Saffer's bowling line up of Steyn, Philander and Morkel....

But Australia arguably can put onto the field a much more dangerous pace attack than the current Saffa trio of Steyn, Philander and Morkel. An Aussie pace quartet of James Pattinson, Mitchell Johnson, Mitchell Starc and Sid Vicious can on their day easily blow away England's batting lineup just like what the great WI duo of Ambrose, Walsh backed up by the 2 Benjamins did to England's batting at the Queen's Park Oval, Port Of Spain in Trinidad in 1994 when England got hilariously and embarassingly bowled out for a miserly 46.

hodge wrote:I would back our batting to do better against the Aussie's than the Saffer's bowling line up of Steyn, Philander and Morkel....

That comparison takes a bit of thinking through..... Will our batting do better against the Aussies bowling than the SA bowling did against the Aussie batsmen?

When you line up England's pace bowlers Vs Aussie's you'd have to back England's to do better in our own conditions. Then it's a question of batters, many could be facing they're first trips to England, Watson and Clarke stand out as the experience. Everyone remembers how well Hughes took to test cricket right? After how much he was played up as a danger. And has Khawaja played a test in England? I can't remember.

England isn't the easiest place to come as an inexperienced test batsman any more thanks to our seam attack.

hodge wrote:When you line up England's pace bowlers Vs Aussie's you'd have to back England's to do better in our own conditions. Then it's a question of batters, many could be facing they're first trips to England, Watson and Clarke stand out as the experience. Everyone remembers how well Hughes took to test cricket right? After how much he was played up as a danger. And has Khawaja played a test in England? I can't remember.

England isn't the easiest place to come as an inexperienced test batsman any more thanks to our seam attack.

Well I wouldn't fully back our own pace bowlers to do better than Australia's pace bowlers if our pace bowlers include guys like Broad and Bresnan to backup our primary strike bowler James Anderson.

Looking at the form of our seamers, I'd think so.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2287193/Australia-fast-track-Pakistan-asylum-seeker-Fawad-Ahmed-play-Ashes--EXCLUSIVE-INTERVIEW.html

That really is abusing the system

International sport is as much about confidence as skill.
And the team that is much more confident on spinning pitches right now is England..both in batting and bowling.

So in principle it's not a bad idea......in practise you can't replicate a Delhi pitch anywhere in Englnad.......just like a Headingley cannot be replicated anywhere in India.

However India does have "relatively" seam friendly pitches.....as in Mohali and the rather new pitch in Dharamsala.

Similarly England would do well to have dry, devoid of grass pitches in atleast two tests....that would spin from D3 onwards..
preferably the first test....and I believe Oval and to some extent Lords might be curated on those lines.

Such pitches would be a double advantage to England....reduce the Aussie pace advantage.....and make Eng more potent ( presumably playing 2 spinners).

and should Eng win the toss on these ptiches ti would quadruple their advantage.