Captains

First topic message reminder :

There was a guy I played with who was the standout player for a couple of seasons. A real talker on the pitch and had a big extrovert personality. He was eventually made captain and was absolutely rubbish for the first 3 months or so. The club then installed a policy of rotating the captaincy every year. He inevitably got better and finished out the season in fantastic form, had won everyone over as we witnessed him grow as a captain and a person as the season progressed. He told me he surprised himself by the maturity he gained and the leadership he had shown and that it had benefitted him in all aspects of his life. He was replaced the next season and the team suffered as a result.
I can see a lot of parallels between that and what Jamie Heaslip is currently going through and not so long ago Chris Robshaw
A leader may be born rather than made but standing up in front of a group of your peers and saying “I am the leader” is not natural.. They may be the right candidate by virtue of their personality and ability but just because that label is put on someone does not mean they will take to it like a duck to water
I’ve played for several clubs on various teams going down levels as I got older under many captains. In my experience it requires a full season for a new captain to be accepted by his team mates, gain the experience to make the right calls (kick for goal or opt for the lineout) and most importantly to feel comfortable in the role.
I take my hat off to anyone who is willing to take on the job. I stood in as captain a couple of times in Mickey mouse J3 games and almost cracked under the pressure. Jamie will be a fine captain for many years to come. It’s a baptism of fire at the moment but it will stand to him in the long run. By the same logic, I think Chris Robshaw has already come out the other side and is now the standout candidate for the Lions captaincy

PS Tony Ward is a cabbage

Did Jones scrummage against Domingo? (answer- no)

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Adam Jones will argue with that - Cole is not a Cert and the english scrum has not had dominance in the 6 nations

I could have scrummaged against Domingo on that pitch at St Denis and drew the same ammont of penalties.

Adam Jones in that match is not a benchmark of aptitude but rather a failure of the ground staff and the referee.

IMO the Scrums should have gone uncontested when it became clear how dangerous it could become.

The pitch was awful but same for both sides & Adam Jones had the honesty after the game to accept that it was his fault for not staying square & 'took it on the chin' (literally!).

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Adam Jones will argue with that - Cole is not a Cert and the english scrum has not had dominance in the 6 nations

I could have scrummaged against Domingo on that pitch at St Denis and drew the same ammont of penalties.

Adam Jones in that match is not a benchmark of aptitude but rather a failure of the ground staff and the referee.

IMO the Scrums should have gone uncontested when it became clear how dangerous it could become.

The pitch was awful but same for both sides & Adam Jones had the honesty after the game to accept that it was his fault for not staying square & 'took it on the chin' (literally!).

In all fairness Jones and Cole will no doubt both make the tour and probably both feature in the tests. Cole is a better all round player though right now. He has been an utter nuisance at the breakdown, carries marginally better than Jones and is equally good at scrummaging. It think Cole is the best tight head in the NH right now.

Not sure how this turned into a Lions selection debate.

Ref Captains, to paraphrase: "Some are born Captains, some achieve Captaincy, and some have Captaincy thrust upon them".

If you're the type who leads by example, it must be easier. But that's easiest in the pack. I think O'Connell said something like "If Martin Johnson asks you to run through a brick wall, you'll do it, because he's already smashed a hole through it". Johnson didn't say much as a Captain - I guess he could stare people out though.

Robshaw is respected because he does all the hard work and puts his body on the line. Of course, not much use if it means you get injured on 30 minutes every time you play (Mr Lewis Moody).

Then you get the types like O'Driscoll who's (or was) a class above the rest of his team, and acknowledged as world class. No one would question his right to Captaincy even if he couldn't talk.

Then you get the confident pushy types. Perhaps their not the best players (though assured of their palce), but they talk the most and have a lot of confidence. Will Carling perhaps?

When Lancaster came in a year ago there was no one who was assured of a starting place. That probably made it difficult for Robshaw. "Your Captain but if you're not performing (clearly better than the others)". (Steve Borthwick, Phil de Glanville).

Munster have been blessed to have had some really great captains over the years - Woody, Mick Galwey, Jim Williams, Paul O'Connell, but the greatest of them all was Anthony Foley.

The thing about Foley was that he always did the right thing at the right time.

Foley was a great captain but a very under rated player. Did he ever make a lions tour?

I think the fact that nobody can be hailed as a shoe-in at the moment for the back row shows what a great pool there is to choose from.realistically if everybody was ft we could pick two totally different units of 7 and be happy with either to go on tour.I think this year we will have a great side who will go down in history.