Scotland vs Wales: Match Thread

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND vs WALES

Venue: Murrayfield
Date: 9/3/13
Kick-off: 14:30
TV coverage: BBC One
Weather Forecast: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/edinburgh#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1362787200
Ref: Craig Joubert

SCOTLAND
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Brown
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench: 16. Hall 17. Low 18. Cross 19. Kelock 20. Wilson 21. Prygos 22. Jackson 23. Evans

WALES
1. James
2. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A. W. Jones
5. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens 17. Andrew 18. Mitchell 19. Coombs 20. Tipuric 21. L. Williams 22. Hook 23. S. Williams

[tigertattie]

Ryan Wilson has been called up to replace Dave Denton (knee injury) and Al Strokosch is back. I thought Harley was doing OK.

where have you heard this vicious rumour?

Wilson rightly deserves any call up. Been on great form for the weeg. But Harley should not in a million years be dropped for kung fu phooey

[TJ1]

Stroks is in for cover surely? Murray is in as well.

Scotland team:

Forwards: John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Rob Harley, Alastair Kellock, Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (all Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Tom Ryder (Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Jon Welsh and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors)

Backs: Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Peter Horne, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Kennedy (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Peter Murchie, Henry Pyrgos (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott, Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby), Nikki Walker (Worcester Warriors) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)


http://blogs.espnscrum.com/latest-news/#Scotland%20draft%20in%20Euan%20Murray%20and%20Strokosch

[RDW]

I sincerely hope he doesn’t bring Strokosh straight back in!

[bsando]

I really hope Johnson comes out with something funny about the mind games articles. I wonder if he has seen this before... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4p2SDKM1mo

[reallybored]

Dropping Harley would be a massive, massive mistake, I sincerely hope he doesn't do it for either Barclay or Strokosch.

I think Dunbar and Wilson deserve a chance from the bench, both have been central to Glasgow's recent form and could really add some impact.

[NeilyBroon]

BRINGING IT BACK!

Scotland training squad announced:

Scotland squad:

Backs: Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Peter Horne, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Kennedy (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Peter Murchie, Henry Pyrgos (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott, Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby), Nikki Walker (Worcester Warriors) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors).

Forwards: John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby), Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Richie Gray (Sale Sharks), Ryan Grant, Dougie Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Rob Harley, Alastair Kellock, Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (all Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Tom Ryder (Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Jon Welsh and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors)

Dunbar, Horne, Barclay and Wilson recalled. I hold some hope that our changes will be implemented!

[NeilyBroon]

aw damn.. I really ought to refresh more...

[caz]

"Kung Fu Phooey"
Sorry I forgot to post the link but TJ did a better job of it than I would've anyway.
I'd love to see Barclay back, but don't think Bob deserves to be dropped.

[RDW]

I hope Denton takes the time out injured to have a long hard think about what has happened this season – he has gone from new kid on the block and dark horse for the Lions last season to down in the doldrums, dropped by Scotland and completely out of Lions consideration this season, and it is entirely because of his attitude this season.

He is only 22 so is only just starting out, but I can’t help think in 10 years time when he is looking back on his career he will remember this season, and am hoping he will remember it as the season that gave him the kick up the erse that he needed.

[George Carlin]

Thank god JB is in there.

[jimbopip]

The additions to the squad makes for some interesting thoughts.

The Rev and Doctor to share duties( probably in that order)

Killer B's to be re-united. (I see Strokes as third choice behind The Tackle Monster)

Dunbar, Heathcote, Wilson and Hornee furra linee all deserve a place in the 23.

I think it'll be a 5-3 split on the bench, so I'd like to see
Low
MacArthur
Cross
Kellock
Wilson
Pyrgos (oops missed him first time)
Dunbar
Horne
I think it'll be a cracker of a game. I also think it is Maitland's time to shine. He has been very good so far but I feel he is what Geech calls a test match animal and Saturday is made for him, and vice versa.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Jimbo,

while I am a big Pat MacArthur supporter - Dougie Hall had a very strong impact v Ireland and may be the steadier choice on the bench for hooker .

[Morgannwg]

Not sure why this quote has reared its head. Scotland will probably lose on the scoreboard too, IMO.

"Probably"! Sounds like Welsh confidence is already crumbling.

Sure is. That Scotland forward pack is very good at punching holes and gaining ground. Like others have said we need to improve a lot to win. France and Italy have been the necessary practice for this coming fixture...

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd like to see Barclay go straight in at 7, move Brown to 6 and have Harley on the bench.

Harsh on Harley, but I really think we must improve at the breakdown. We have a back three built for turnover ball and yet our pack serves up very few turnovers. We need a proper openside.

[TJ1]

I really am hoping for a good game - but for me the key for the scots is to CONTEST THE BREAKDOWN grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Guest]

Scotland definitely favourites for this in my book. At home, in form, feel good factor in the squad, etc. Will be very tough for Wales.

[Morgannwg]

Griff do you think the current Wales back-row will be able to gain parity or better their Scotland counterparts though? I'm quite unsure.

[funnyExiledScot]

All this humilty from the Welsh fans - I don't know what to make of it!!

[Morgannwg]

Our back-row has played well. But it could go the way it went against Ireland, their back-row was a lot more physical and overall, heavier. That's why I'm unsure!

[Guest]

Really don't know. I'm still unsure about Faletau, and I'm a Dragons fan! Not sure he's the finished article. But I often miss some of the unseen stuff that the back row does. Just don't know what I'm looking for I guess!

If they work well as a unit then they've got a great chance to gain parity. But Scotland's back row is very good so we'll need to be on top of their game to get it. It's not the place for Warburton to be dropped back in to get match fitness and back to form, that's for sure.

[jimbopip]

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]I'd like to see Barclay go straight in at 7, move Brown to 6 and have Harley on the bench.

I quite agree FES but I also think Wilson has the potential to be a really explosive replacement. He would probably carry more effectively than the Tackle Monster. But would we be weaker defensively? Either way I still see Strokes as third choice.

[flyhalffactory]

I would like to see the following start (brackets are who I think SJ will start)

15 Hogg
14 Maitland
11 Visser

13 Dunbar (Lamont),
12 Scott

10 Weir (Jackson)
9 Laidlaw,

8 Beattie (Brown)
7 Barclay (Beattie)
6 Brown (Harley)

5 Hamilton
4 Gray

3 Murray (Cross)
2 Ford
1 Grant

Bench is alot harder to select

[Guest]

All this humilty from the Welsh fans - I don't know what to make of it!!

Well, this is my first post on this thread. Some of the soccer fan style comments by some on here, from both nations, is just embarrassing to be honest.

[George Carlin]

All this humilty from the Welsh fans - I don't know what to make of it!!

Well, this is my first post on this thread. Some of the soccer fan style comments by some on here, from both nations, is just embarrassing to be honest.

Please post more, Griff.

[flyhalffactory]

Really don't know. I'm still unsure about Faletau, and I'm a Dragons fan! Not sure he's the finished article. But I often miss some of the unseen stuff that the back row does. Just don't know what I'm looking for I guess!

If they work well as a unit then they've got a great chance to gain parity. But Scotland's back row is very good so we'll need to be on top of their game to get it. It's not the place for Warburton to be dropped back in to get match fitness and back to form, that's for sure.

I am with you on that Griff, I might be in the very small minority, but I just dont see his work-rate or agression enough in defence (he always seems to be on the fringes with a passive defence) often leaving Roberts or Davies to make the hit in midfield when its most his call to make the hits, albeit a superb ball carrier. I would select if Warburton is on form the following

8 Ryan Jones (c)
7 Tuperic
6 Warburton or maybe Shingler

[Guest]

I agree flyhalf. Although I'm not a fan of playing players out of position, and I don't think Warburton is a 6.

We miss Lydiate a lot I feel. Many posters outside of Wales don't seem to rate him, but he is a vital cog in the welsh back row. He just adds that much needed balance. Without him we are a bit lightweight, or ask other to fill in.

[reallybored]

Why is there so much demand for Barclay to be reinstated? Is it just so the killer Bs are reunited?

I like Barclay but he's no where near the player he was 2/3 seasons ago, can't remember the last time he dominated the breakdown.

Dropping an in-form Harley for him would be a big mistake, he's been one of our most effective players in the last two matches. May not turn the ball over but he disrupts almost every breakdown he is near, tackles for 80 minutes and hits plenty of rucks.

Brown has been doing a fine job at open-side, most turn-overs so far in 6 Nations, so why change it?

Don't worry about Tipuric, he's almost as over-rated as Warburton.

[alexgmacdonald]

Why is there so much demand for Barclay to be reinstated? Is it just so the killer Bs are reunited?

I like Barclay but he's no where near the player he was 2/3 seasons ago, can't remember the last time he dominated the breakdown.

Dropping an in-form Harley for him would be a big mistake, he's been one of our most effective players in the last two matches. May not turn the ball over but he disrupts almost every breakdown he is near, tackles for 80 minutes and hits plenty of rucks.

Brown has been doing a fine job at open-side, most turn-overs so far in 6 Nations, so why change it?

Don't worry about Tipuric, he's almost as over-rated as Warburton.

Barclay has been playing really well for the Warriors recently. Could be useful to have a true openside in the 23

[RDW]

I'm with you reallybored (apart from the last bit!)

we shouldn't change our entire back row balance because of 1 player.

[reallybored]

I'd prefer Wilson on the bench ahead of Barclay, he has been playing out of skin recently.

[RDW]

Agreed again!

[alexgmacdonald]

I'd prefer Wilson on the bench ahead of Barclay, he has been playing out of skin recently.

Wilson has been unbelievably good recently! I could see the merits of both players being there so its not a bad problem to have! I just hope he doesnt put Strokosch back in.

[flyhalffactory]

Why is there so much demand for Barclay to be reinstated? Is it just so the killer Bs are reunited?

I like Barclay but he's no where near the player he was 2/3 seasons ago, can't remember the last time he dominated the breakdown.

Dropping an in-form Harley for him would be a big mistake, he's been one of our most effective players in the last two matches. May not turn the ball over but he disrupts almost every breakdown he is near, tackles for 80 minutes and hits plenty of rucks.

Brown has been doing a fine job at open-side, most turn-overs so far in 6 Nations, so why change it?

Don't worry about Tipuric, he's almost as over-rated as Warburton.

If you think winning less than 15% of the breakdown and less than 20% of the rucks is in form then I am astounded, I am a massive Harley fan and he hasn't performed badly at all, but like Denton he has to do more than get to the breakdown / rucks he has to be more agressive in that vital area. Barclay has played very well this season and its no co-incidence that Warriors are top of the Pro12 as a result, he might not be where he was in 2010 but he is very much getting back close

[123456789]

I feel obliged to apologise for the fellow Scots on this board, it is pretty clear to me, as it should be to you, that Wales will win the game on Sunday because they not only thrashed us in 2005 but also they have beaten two teams this six nations ( one of which has actually won a match which is a fine achievement seeing as you can actually count on one hand the amount of team's that have that this year) as well as that they have an outside centre who now passes for territory which is ingenious as well as an inside centre with a streak of creativity that Dan Carter and Quade Cooper dream of. Add to that Richard Hibbard who looks like Imelda Cakeworthy from the terrible comedy Green Green Grass (http://www.comedy.co.uk/guide/tv/the_green_green_grass/characters/ ) then you have an invincible team which should view the Scotland game merely as a warm up for the match of the century at the millenium stadium where gods such as Andrew Coombs and Jonathan Davies will stun the English (who beat Scotland by less than fifty which is quite frankly pathetic) and ascending to the heavens carrying the trophy which is theirs by right.
Anyway, back to the Scotland game and my apology, how dare any of you suggest that Saint Dan won't travel to Australia, in fact he will teleport there like the rest of the Welsh team with an invention of Mike "Einstein" Phillips, another crucial factor will be that the Scotland team haven't won a game ever, not once not against a proper team, remember Wales beating Ireland at home on the first weekend that was a proper win, Glasgow warriors are only top because the Dragons let them and Stuart Hogg's mum still cooks him dinner.

[Guest]

See what I mean.

[NeilyBroon]

I'd prefer Wilson on the bench ahead of Barclay, he has been playing out of skin recently.

Wilson has been unbelievably good recently! I could see the merits of both players being there so its not a bad problem to have! I just hope he doesnt put Strokosch back in.

Stroks shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XV. I hope Harley has proved how over-rated he is. He's like Max Evans, somehow he always gets picked...

[123456789]

I'd prefer Wilson on the bench ahead of Barclay, he has been playing out of skin recently.

Wilson has been unbelievably good recently! I could see the merits of both players being there so its not a bad problem to have! I just hope he doesnt put Strokosch back in.

Stroks shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XV. I hope Harley has proved how over-rated he is. He's like Max Evans, somehow he always gets picked...

It's because he's a hard man

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

At least Strokes has done more to deserve a place in the 23 than Denton !?

[flyhalffactory]

Stuart Hogg's mum still cooks him dinner.

Awwwww thats nice!, but not every day surely?

[TJ1]

So nice to have so much choice!

[flyhalffactory]

At least Strokes has done more to deserve a place in the 23 than Denton !?

No in-fighting guys lets band together for a while for the good of the country

And there came a day when Earth's mightiest rugby players found themselves united against a common threat. On that day, the Scottish Rugby Team were born to fight the foes no single super-rugby player could withstand


SCOTLAND (Avengers) THE BRAVE ASSEMBLE

[welshy6]

can I please as a self respectable Welshman apologise for so many of my countrymen's stupid comments and dismissing what will be a very difficult match.

For me I think Tipuric could potentially have a field day if the Scottish forwards aren't savvy enough at the breakdown.
the major danger I think for wales is that back 3, although I would like to think hogg would have more difficulty getting through our defence than englands, italys and Irelands! but yeh really looking forward to the match.

[glamorganalun]

I agree flyhalf. Although I'm not a fan of playing players out of position, and I don't think Warburton is a 6.

We miss Lydiate a lot I feel. Many posters outside of Wales don't seem to rate him, but he is a vital cog in the welsh back row. He just adds that much needed balance. Without him we are a bit lightweight, or ask other to fill in.

Agree with most of what you say, ideally I would have Lydiate at 6, R Jones at 8 and Tipuric at 7. Faletau has improved a lot in the last three games but I agree with FHF he does drift to the fringes to keep his tackle count up instead of getting stuck in to force the turn overs like Dan and Ryan. I am not complaining about our current back row in the last two games (we were lightweight in the first game) with Dan being out. It looks as if Lydiate is out for a while he was supposed to play for the Dragons but brokedown prior to the game.

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong, Faletau is an obvious talent. I just can't put my finger on what it is that I don't like. Maybe consistency? Not sure. He makes plenty of yards, has a big tackle count like to say, but something nags at me that he isn't as good as many people like to make out.

[welshy6]

I think Faletau is the kind of player who would look at home playing in the SH, he is a lot more of a linkman and open field runner, although this year he has certainly improved in the tight this season (probably thanks to the playing in the dragons where he has had to take a lot of responsibility considering how young he is) and he will only improve with time after all he is only what 20/21?

[NeilyBroon]

I think Faletau is the kind of player who would look at home playing in the SH, he is a lot more of a linkman and open field runner, although this year he has certainly improved in the tight this season (probably thanks to the playing in the dragons where he has had to take a lot of responsibility considering how young he is) and he will only improve with time after all he is only what 20/21?

Faletau is looking hot at the moment. I'll be interested to see him up against Johnnie Beattie Jr. Tipuric worries me, especially with our current state of breakdown. Rather than standing off of the rucks in defence, the forwards are standing off of our rucks in attack. The amount of times I've seen Laidlaw having to go in himself is ridiculous. Its unclear to me why, it's as if Scotlands pack aren't backing themselves to win the ball and are simply giving up possession because they think we're better off defending. I hope to see our attacking rucking improve rather than just our defensive.

Neil's prognosis with poor ball retention? Scotland 15-30 Wales
Neil's prognosis with improved attacking ruck? Scotland 25-22 Wales

[alexgmacdonald]

I think Faletau is the kind of player who would look at home playing in the SH, he is a lot more of a linkman and open field runner, although this year he has certainly improved in the tight this season (probably thanks to the playing in the dragons where he has had to take a lot of responsibility considering how young he is) and he will only improve with time after all he is only what 20/21?

Faletau is looking hot at the moment. I'll be interested to see him up against Johnnie Beattie Jr. Tipuric worries me, especially with our current state of breakdown. Rather than standing off of the rucks in defence, the forwards are standing off of our rucks in attack. The amount of times I've seen Laidlaw having to go in himself is ridiculous. Its unclear to me why, it's as if Scotlands pack aren't backing themselves to win the ball and are simply giving up possession because they think we're better off defending. I hope to see our attacking rucking improve rather than just our defensive.

Neil's prognosis with poor ball retention? Scotland 15-30 Wales
Neil's prognosis with improved attacking ruck? Scotland 25-22 Wales

I hope we can see that battle with Beattie playing off some front foot ball. There he is devastating, I cant wait. It will be interesting to see the possible changes Johnson will make. Mainly, backrow and the Jackson/Weir selection.

[100%beefy]

i expect Warbs and AWJ...as soemone said on Scrum V, Howley will pick his team to face England not Scotland

[Guest]

can I please as a self respectable Welshman apologise for so many of my countrymen's stupid comments and dismissing what will be a very difficult match.

For me I think Tipuric could potentially have a field day if the Scottish forwards aren't savvy enough at the breakdown.
the major danger I think for wales is that back 3, although I would like to think hogg would have more difficulty getting through our defence than englands, italys and Irelands! but yeh really looking forward to the match.

There's not many Welsh fans at all. One or two really. Bit of a difference. If anybody takes a wum seriously and a true reflection of the majority of a Country's supporters views, then I'd suggest they're the real problem.

Secondly, I don't know why people would pick Jughead at 8. He's not dynamic off the base of a scrum and runs too upright into contact, which if fielding kicks etc isn't good. He's doing a great job at 6, so why move him?

[George Carlin]

Why is it that so many Welsh posters are keen to be witchhunters, operating the joystick on a Rob Howley ducking stool? Do fans really blame him for the recent bad patch (as opposed to the players)?

I'm not wumming, I'm interested. All this talk about SJ being directly credited with motivating the Scots players.

[Sponsored content]