Scotland vs Wales: Match Thread

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND vs WALES

Venue: Murrayfield
Date: 9/3/13
Kick-off: 14:30
TV coverage: BBC One
Weather Forecast: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/edinburgh#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1362787200
Ref: Craig Joubert

SCOTLAND
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Brown
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench: 16. Hall 17. Low 18. Cross 19. Kelock 20. Wilson 21. Prygos 22. Jackson 23. Evans

WALES
1. James
2. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A. W. Jones
5. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens 17. Andrew 18. Mitchell 19. Coombs 20. Tipuric 21. L. Williams 22. Hook 23. S. Williams

[maestegmafia]

Why is it that so many Welsh posters are keen to be witchhunters, operating the joystick on a Rob Howley ducking stool? Do fans really blame him for the recent bad patch (as opposed to the players)?

I'm not wumming, I'm interested. All this talk about SJ being directly credited with motivating the Scots players.

A large majority want easy scapegoats, Howley, Priestland and Warburton have, possibly unfairly taken the brunt of it and most fans with an ounce of intellect are now realising they were wrong to suggest such.

No denying Wales had a poor run of defeats but in all honesty Wales only played poorly against Argentina and Samoa.



When are you scots announcing your team?

I understand the calls for Dunbar over Lamont. I don't rate Lamont I do rate Dunbar and Scott as potentially brilliant. Weir vs Jackson not much in it, stick with Jackson.

And no one should suggest dropping Harley he is fantastic...

[George Carlin]

Maes - they're announcing today - it's usually about 1pm (UK time).

95% of the posters here won't know who Dunbar is but he's a winger turned centre with real gas and a superb step who whizzed all over the Saxons in the recent game and has become the key member of Glasgow's midfield. Like Graham Morrison, but without the glacial slowness. I agree with you about him but I suspect that the Schlong chase down and hero tackle on Jamie Roberts (was that last year? the year before?) will live long in SJ's memory.

Most Scots posters believe that the holy trinity of 6. Brown, 7. Barclay and 8. Beattie should be restored with Harley and his Biff on the bench. Hopefully Strokosch is only there to hold the tackle bags, show the squad his new babby pictures and occasionally headbutt a team mate.

[maestegmafia]

Ha ha ha good synopsis GC

The infamous "three b's" too return, it's a headline and they were an assert two or three years ago but Harley is playing too well.

Dunbar could really add to that back three. It would be great to see Scotland with a decent centre partnership for the first time in at least a decade.

[GLove39]

Weir to start. Full team announced...

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 13 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 74 caps, 9 tries, 45 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby) 8 caps, 5 tries, 25 points
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 conversion, 2 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) vice-captain, 16 caps, 2 tries, 16 conversions and 30 penalties, 132 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) vice-captain, 8 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 66 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 51 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks) 30 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 44 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) captain, 55 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 19 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

Substitutes
16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 41 caps, 1 try, 5 points
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 17 caps
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 19 caps, 1 try, 5points
19 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 50 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps, 1 try, 5 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 18 caps, 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 16 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 34 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

[alexgmacdonald]

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 13 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 74 caps, 9 tries, 45 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby) 8 caps, 5 tries, 25 points
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 conversion, 2 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) vice-captain, 16 caps, 2 tries, 16 conversions and 30 penalties, 132 points
1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) vice-captain, 8 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 66 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 51 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks) 30 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 44 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) captain, 55 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 19 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
Substitutes
16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 41 caps, 1 try, 5 points
17 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 17 caps
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 19 caps, 1 try, 5points
19 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 50 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps, 1 try, 5 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 18 caps, 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 16 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 34 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Not happy to see Duncan Weir in the starting XV.

[100%beefy]

I thought he woudl get nod and actually think he is what you boys need if you have slow ball; he is more physical and can cope better on the back foot. Will be a cracking game

[George Carlin]

The Good:
1. Return of the Meatball.
2. Return of the Reverend.
3. Wilson on the bench.
4. No Strokosch.

The Bad:
1. NO BARCLAY.
2. Harley back to 6. I can see why, but 'meh'.
3. Hall instead of MacArthur. But, obviously

The Ugly:
How the Squashed Goblin evades capture is a mystery.

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm a little surprised at Weir starting, although I don't think there's much in it between him and Jackson, and his kicking is very useful. Also surprised Barclay isn't in the 23, although Wilson definitely deserves the call up. I would have liked Dunbar in for Lamont but wasn't seriously expecting it. The one thing I am disappointed in is Cross being dropped, he had a very good game last time out and I think you need to reward that.

[lostinwales]

They must have done a pretty good job at fixing Ford's face. I know its two weeks but the reports from after the last game were not good

[NeilyBroon]

Good team selection minus Max Evans... he's just undroppable apparently!
Weir over Jackson seems perhaps a bit harsh but I think he'll bring good control to the game and is as good if not better than Jackson at getting a backline working. Jackson isn't a bad substitute to have, although I'd like to see Heathcote back at some point!

Relieved not to see Stroks on there
Disappointed not to see Dunbar or Horne in the 23
Puzzled as to Cross being dropped to the bench... seems a bit harsh!

[RDW]

Pretty happy with that, but a bit of a mixed message from SJ. Weir did well and got picked, Cross did well and was dropped.

Huge game required of the rev - which is a good thing!

[MacKnocked-on]

I think Evans is basically still there due to the fact that he hasn't really featured therefore hasn't done anything to warrant being dropped if that logic makes any sense? Johnson probably feels that Evan's experience of International rugby is enough for him to keep his place at the moment but I fully expect Dunbar and Horne,possibly even Taylor and Bennett to come into the centre reckoning during the summer tour. Obviously Grove should also be getting a chance and hopefully Ansbro will come back. I expect Evans and De Luca to gradually disappear from the reckoning as has Morrison.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Happy with that. Evans aside of course.

I wonder if it will be Wee Greig or Wee Duncy taking the place kicks?

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

Max is more than likely there simply due to the number of positions he covers... Although Alex Dunbar covers the same positions...

Strong team and although it's tough on Cross, Murray was outstanding vs Italy and only for his religious beliefs would have played vs Ireland

[RubyGuby]

Is this going to hamper Jackson's Lions opportunity

[NeilyBroon]

Happy with that. Evans aside of course.

I wonder if it will be Wee Greig or Wee Duncy taking the place kicks?

I guess it depends what area of the field! Although I'd actually say Laidlaw seems to have a bit more flexibility with where he kicks from, although Meatball is a fairly solid kicker.

I'm excited now! It's a selection that doesn't reek of brainfart for a change, its nice to have proper selection after 3 years of confusion!

[NeilyBroon]

Is this going to hamper Jackson's Lions opportunity

It's okay, Dan Parks is still playing, we'll get a Scot flyhalf on tour yet!

[beshocked]

Wales to dominate possession and territory like the Irish did.

Picking the wrong backrow could cost Scotland the match.

[RDW]

I think it's fair to say it will be Laidlaw kicking - he is a proven match winner and accurate kicker at this level.

Weir maybe for the long kicks.

[NeilyBroon]

Wales to dominate possession and territory like the Irish did.

Picking the wrong backrow could cost Scotland the match.

Not sure our backrow are to do with our possession problems so much actually. It's more the forwards generally not committing to rucks, makes me think a bit of SH rugby funnily enough, probably a bit of Johnson's influence. Unfortunately what Scotland are doing wrong at the moment is that they're not using any posession they do get, which I hope changes on Saturday.

Even if we do lose to Wales, I expect an improved performance, but seeing our squad fills me with confidence, especially with a monster like Wilson on the bench. I wonder when we'll start seeing Swinson getting involved...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Craig Joubert's the referee for this one. What do we think? He can be a bit of a homer at times.

[NeilyBroon]

Craig Joubert's the referee for this one. What do we think? He can be a bit of a homer at times.

Better than Barnes

[RDW]

As long as it isn't Wayne Barnes I'm happy!

[beshocked]

NeilyBroon

You pick your best blindside flanker at openside, leave out your best openside out of the 23 altogether and don't think there is a problem?

Scotland's problems are so simple plus the Killer Bs are a proper balanced backrow unit. Not some imbalanced mess thrown together.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Beshocked, Kelly Brown is far more comfortable at 6, no doubt but Harley and Brown have been playing France style sharing the open and blind side roles.

I'm guessing with Barclay only having one club match under his belt after nearly a 2 month lay off was too much of a risk for SJ.

Harley is also a much more effective weapon in the line out.

I do think we have missed the specialist openside role in this pack but sadly with injuries to Rennie and Barclay SJ's hand has been somewhat forced.

[NeilyBroon]

NeilyBroon

You pick your best blindside flanker at openside, leave out your best openside out of the 23 altogether and don't think there is a problem?

Scotland's problems are so simple plus the Killer Bs are a proper balanced backrow unit. Not some imbalanced mess thrown together.

I agree, Kelly needs to be put back in at 6, but I think Harley has earnt his place in the starting XV. Whilst I would obviously prefer a natural openside, I'd rather wait until our form opensides are fit. Barclay's had a couple of good games but I've seen no reason to drop Harley so far, he has tackled like a monster and caused all sorts of trouble at the ruck. At the moment the pack set-up to the best of my knowledge is like the Aus one, left and right flankers who are interchangable, which suits me. I think Kelly Brown has done a good job so far, but I see your point. I'm interested to see how they get on on Saturday. It may be our undoing, it may not, but I've come around to our backrow and I actually don't mind having two blindsides, as long as they get their hands dirty.

[RDW]

I don’t think the current John Barclay would do significantly better at 7 than KB has been doing. The increase in performance therefore in having Barclay at 7 instead of KB will be small, and I don’t think we’re going to lose the game because we didn’t select one player! It is up to the whole team to ruck.

Remember a lot of the possession stats came from the fact that we kicked the ball away at most opportunities – it wasn’t just the rucking performance.

[GLove39]

With Weir starting we'll hopefully see less of Liadlaw box kicking. Hopefully Weir can pin the Welsh back

[Pat_Mustard]

Barclay has played the last 4 Glasgow games, two of which he played 80 mins - I would definitely rather have him starting for Scotland alongside Brown and Beattie, even if that is harsh on Harley.

However as Neily points out, it's the whole pack that need to improve their breakdown work. I also expect with Weir starting we'll see less of Laidlaw's box kicks handing possession back to the opposition, Weir's long kicks will be good for managing territory and if the lineout operates as it did two weeks ago we can win the ball back there.

[RDW]

I’d like Laidlaw to still do some box kicking – they were intelligent kicks that varied between high ones inviting the onrushing defence to smash the guy as he catches it, or little dinks over the top to give the guy a chance of catching it (Maitland example).

These are important tactics to have – but it is about balance. There’s no point Weir hoofing it long all day nad not have any box kicks, and nice versa

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (C), Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau.

REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Scott Andrews, Craig Mitchell, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams

[RDW]

Ooh some interesting calls in there!

Warbuton effectively has 2 games to play for his Lions spot so can expect him to be up for this one.

Going to be a massive battle in the scrums with James called in.

[George Carlin]

Say what you like about SJ, he's been consistent.

He's also been open in interviews that Kelly and Harley can alternate left and right as they see fit and they judge each ruck on its merits (not in the way that Kellock does, thankfully - they actually decide to go into them).

[George Carlin]

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (C), Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau.

REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Scott Andrews, Craig Mitchell, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams

Hmm. I think that Warbuton is less of a threat than Tips, but I'm sure that the latter will see 30 minutes on the field anyway. I'm happy with AWJ instead of Coombs - a definite pick of reputation over form - WJ didn't do much of any note against Munster last week and Coombs has been in the form of his career. I would have been more worried about a Tips/Warbs combo but Ryan has been playing well. Hibbard divides a lot of people - I think that his props make him look slightly better than in fact he is, but he's kept the shirt, so more power to him.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Say what you like about SJ, he's been consistent.

He's also been open in interviews that Kelly and Harley can alternate left and right as they see fit and they judge each ruck on its merits (not in the way that Kellock does, thankfully - they actually decide to go into them).

Warburton at 7 instead of Tipuric is a massive call, and I for one am massively releived to see it. Warburton being thrown into this match smacks of desperation to me and he will be feeling the pressure Massively.

No Tipuric..... :insert phew smiley:

[RDW]

Reckon there's been some Gatland influence in there, telling Rob H to pick Warbuton so that he has sufficient reason to pick him for the Lions? (Not a WUM - genuine questions!)

[Imperialbigdave]

If scott andrews comes off the bench, we have an opportunity to attack the scrum.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'd have kept Tipuric in the side - but then again, Tipuric off the bench is more of a gamechanger than Warburton off the bench.

Still, Tipuric is playing better so should be starting.

[funnyExiledScot]

I must say, SJ seems to have the pulse of the fans when it comes to selection, other than Max Evans and possibly John Barclay, that's pretty much the team most wanted to see.

Very much looking forward to seeing Weir play on Saturday. Clearly brought in to help Laidlaw with game management. Whilst Jackson is a tad unlucky, I like SJ's message re: Tom Heathcote. Underperform on my watch whilst others are doing it a club level and you won't get long.

I don't take a huge amount of heart from the recalls of Jones and Warburton, and I'm certainly not pleased to see Paul James starting. That's a very powerful Welsh front five, and I can't help but feel that Wales will go old school on this one. Grind the game down, use Biggar to get Wales the right territory and then hammer and crash away at the Scots line until it breaks or concedes penalties. I certainly don't think Ryan Jones will be as inept a captain as Heaslip. I'd expect Wales to kick early doors if given the chance, and then open up if the game allows for it.

For Scotland we've got to be bolder on the counter attack than we were against Ireland. Don't be so afraid to move the ball away from the pack, particularly on turnover ball. The key to this game for us is our back three getting on the ball. That's where we can hurt Wales. I don't think we'll be able to rely on the same sort of situation as against Ireland to get us over the line.

Pretty positive team selection from SJ. Making changes where he feels it will help, whilst maintaining continuity. Also a big welcome to international rugby for Ryan Wilson. Thoroughly deserved.

[reallybored]

Pleased to see Weir get a chance, we need to play better territory.

Harsh on Cross but Murray is a better player in my opinion.

Don't understand why Moray Low is on the bench as a loose-head when Jon Welsh is fit, that just seems like a ridiculous call.

Great to see Wilson's form being rewarded.

Disappointed that Max Evans is still on the bench when Alex Dunbar has been playing so well for Glasgow.

[funnyExiledScot]

My guess on Evans is that SJ likes his versatility. He's played 13 and wing before, and SJ brought him on at 15 against Italy.

I still don't see the case for him though, particularly with Sean Lamont at 13 and Maitland at 14. Lamont can play wing and Maitland can play 15. The downside of that is you have to do a pretty major reshuffle if Hogg were to get injured (although how useful Evans would be under the high ball at 15 is anyone's guess - my guess being not good), however Dunbar can play 12 and 13 to a higher standard than Evans, and would bring more impact off the bench in my view.

It's a strange one. I just hope that if Evans does come on he plays well, as Wales will finish the game strongly as they always do.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

I can't understand why a few people are going on about Barclay not being included for his work at the breakdown????

I think Brown has been doing pretty well when it comes to turnovers - top of the list so far if memory serves me right.

Good team and should have enough to turn the Welsh over. It comes down to self belief and possibly committing more than two forwards to each ruck.

I'll be bold and say Scotland 23 - 17 Wales

[George Carlin]

My guess on Evans is that SJ likes his versatility.

True FES - he can be both 'not bad' and urine poor in the space of the same 20 minutes.

[RDW]

Another one of my worries is I can see the Welsh scoring at least 2 tries against us due to their attack and our frailties in defence in open play, and 1/2p won't be missing any kicks at goal for penalties. We are going to need to score at least 20 points to win this I would reckon - can we do that?

[Manky-Flanker]

Great to see Wilson getting his chance having played consistently well for Glasgow. Dunbar and Horne can't be far off now either. I hope Weir has a stormer too.

Gotta say though, I think a lot of the criticism Max Evans gets is unfair. It seems to be bandwagon everybody loves to jump on.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Great to see Wilson getting his chance having played consistently well for Glasgow. Dunbar and Horne can't be far off now either. I hope Weir has a stormer too.

Gotta say though, I think a lot of the criticism Max Evans gets is unfair. It seems to be bandwagon everybody loves to jump on.

If you can tell me what he has done to merit his place I'll lay off him.

As for us scoring more than 20 points? Yeah I reckon we can do that... why not?!

[funnyExiledScot]

I can't understand why a few people are going on about Barclay not being included for his work at the breakdown????

I think Brown has been doing pretty well when it comes to turnovers - top of the list so far if memory serves me right.

....and yet we only had 20-25% of the ball in our last two matches. Brown would probably win just as many turnovers on the blindside. The real question is would Barclay bring more to the breakdown than Rob Harley, and the answer is clearly yes.

It's about balance rather than individual performance. Currently we have too few fetchers in the pack, which is why we've been a distant second at the breakdown in each game this tournament.

That said, for a number 8, Wilson is excellent at the breakdown, so he'll be a good sub to have coming on.

[Manky-Flanker]

Great to see Wilson getting his chance having played consistently well for Glasgow. Dunbar and Horne can't be far off now either. I hope Weir has a stormer too.

Gotta say though, I think a lot of the criticism Max Evans gets is unfair. It seems to be bandwagon everybody loves to jump on.

If you can tell me what he has done to merit his place I'll lay off him.

As for us scoring more than 20 points? Yeah I reckon we can do that... why not?!

I didn't say he merited his place, but why does Lamont merit his as a starting international 13? Ultimately, I think the sharper back 3 and better support play in general would suit Evans' natural game. He's played in Scotland teams in the past that have never run on is shoulder when he makes a half break - he therefore gets labeled as a headless chicken who gets turned over. The difference between genius and insanity is measured only by success I guess.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

I can't understand why a few people are going on about Barclay not being included for his work at the breakdown????

I think Brown has been doing pretty well when it comes to turnovers - top of the list so far if memory serves me right.

....and yet we only had 20-25% of the ball in our last two matches. Brown would probably win just as many turnovers on the blindside. The real question is would Barclay bring more to the breakdown than Rob Harley, and the answer is clearly yes.

It's about balance rather than individual performance. Currently we have too few fetchers in the pack, which is why we've been a distant second at the breakdown in each game this tournament.

That said, for a number 8, Wilson is excellent at the breakdown, so he'll be a good sub to have coming on.

Fair point, but then would Harley bring more to the table in terms of tackling and preventing quick ball?

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