Scotland vs Wales: Match Thread

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND vs WALES

Venue: Murrayfield
Date: 9/3/13
Kick-off: 14:30
TV coverage: BBC One
Weather Forecast: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/edinburgh#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1362787200
Ref: Craig Joubert

SCOTLAND
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Brown
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench: 16. Hall 17. Low 18. Cross 19. Kelock 20. Wilson 21. Prygos 22. Jackson 23. Evans

WALES
1. James
2. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A. W. Jones
5. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens 17. Andrew 18. Mitchell 19. Coombs 20. Tipuric 21. L. Williams 22. Hook 23. S. Williams

[Guest]

Have to give Hibbard his due mind, he was right. Now where's that humble pie.

[gregortree]

England ? OP ?

[maestegmafia]

Well done Scotland great game.

Edinburgh is a wonderful city

[Cyril]

great game?

Where?

[Morgannwg]

Have to give Hibbard his due mind, he was right. Now where's that humble pie.

High five!

[glamorganalun]

Where are all the guys that predicted a Scottish victory or admit it? Any comments apart from the poor ref? The margin of victory should have been much larger thanks to the determined defence.I predicted a larger victory to Wales but Wales did not show much imagination which stems from the flyhalf.

[reallybored]

It was a tight match, you dominated possession and territory but other than the try never really threatened the line. Don't kid yourself that it was a comfortable victory, we traded penalties for 70 minutes.

Your line-out was poor, the ref destroyed the scrum contest, your kicking was aimless and we closed your backs down pretty effectively. You beat us to the breakdown, particularly in the second half, but rarely were you able to get quick ball.

We deserved to lose ultimately because we didn't have the confidence to play with the ball and spurned the chance to get back into the match when we were on your line.

Again there are positives; Weir's individual performance, Beattie got more ball, the defence was solid, Laidlaw's kicking was excellent but if we can't keep hold of the ball we'll lose tight matches.

Disappointed but there'a plenty more to come from this team, just need to have a bit more confidence and composure with ball in hand.

[LordDowlais]

Lets not make any bones about this, Wales were rubbish, but, they were still far superior to Scotland in every facet of the game, I predicted last week that it would be Wales by seven to ten points and I was tarred and feathered by our Sottish contingent on here, do I think Wales will bat England ? No. Scotland are way off the pace, if they can loose to us with these clowns running the show, then they need to take a good look at themselves.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I thought A Jones was MOTM he had a very good game, the Wales front row were too powerful for Scotland, Hines was a liability and Scotland lost out in the second row and suffered for not having a 7.

Yeah, he was terrible.

[IanBru]

I'm really disappointed with Hines's performance today - he showed basically no effort and his technique was sloppy.

[RubyGuby]

Hines was anonymous and don't get me started on John Jeffrey as Warburton played him off the park - woeful

[Luckless Pedestrian]

And the less said about Finlay Calder the better...

[RubyGuby]

I thought Finlay had a good game in all honesty

[GLove39]

Thought David Sole struggled in the scrum...

[RubyGuby]

That's just stupid, Sole retired years ago

[RDSguru]

don't get me started on John Jeffrey as Warburton played him off the park - woeful

And the less said about Finlay Calder the better...

Lets do the time warp again

[Morgannwg]

Your line-out was poor, the ref destroyed the scrum contest, your kicking was aimless and we closed your backs down pretty effectively. You beat us to the breakdown, particularly in the second half, but rarely were you able to get quick ball.

More like Wales destroyed the Scottish scrum, when you didn't engage early. Joubert tried to make it a contest. His most glaring errors here were pinning James when Murray slipped and penalise you lot for our early engage towards the end.

[IanBru]

To be fair, David Sole was always going to struggle against the Honey Monster, Captain Pugwash and Dara O'Briain's ugly cousin.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I thought Finlay had a good game in all honesty

He's a shoo-in for the Lions captaincy.

[RubyGuby]

Joking aside - Any news on Ritchie Grey, he looked to be in a lot of pain?

[GLove39]

Joking aside - Any news on Ritchie Grey, he looked to be in a lot of pain?

Hamstring injury out of the rest of the tournament.
Hopefully get a larger update on Monday

[RubyGuby]

Joking aside - Any news on Ritchie Grey, he looked to be in a lot of pain?

Hamstring injury out of the rest of the tournament.
Hopefully get a larger update on Monday

Seemed in agony, hope it's not a bad tear

[LondonTiger]

More like Wales destroyed the Scottish scrum, when they engaged early. Joubert had no clue.

Fixed that for you

no thanks, or jacket, required.

[Morgannwg]

More like Wales destroyed the Scottish scrum, when they engaged early. Joubert had no clue.

Fixed that for you

no thanks, or jacket, required.

Huh? If they engage early which they were persistently doing early in the first half then it's a clear penalty. Perhaps Wales knew when to engage because they have had Joubert officiate a few of their games last year. Our scrum was dominant against a strong opposition scrum for the second week running and that's our last three games we've won. No congratulations from any arrogant English person, just bitching about the ref and how bad Wales' opposition played. Typical English arrogance.

[Breadvan]

Sam L Jackson in pulp fiction..." Say arrogant again mofo, I dare you". really wlg?

Although I agree Wales owned the Scot scrum...

[Morgannwg]

Although I agree Wales owned the Scot scrum...

Well that's all we needed to hear. Shame your non-arrogant traits do not rub off on your compatriots.

[Breadvan]

Arrogance/confidence/optimism/jingoism. A thin line indeed....

[LondonTiger]

More like Wales destroyed the Scottish scrum, when they engaged early. Joubert had no clue.

Fixed that for you

no thanks, or jacket, required.

Huh? If they engage early which they were persistently doing early in the first half then it's a clear penalty. Perhaps Wales knew when to engage because they have had Joubert officiate a few of their games last year. Our scrum was dominant against a strong opposition scrum for the second week running and that's our last three games we've won. No congratulations from any arrogant English person, just bitching about the ref and how bad Wales' opposition played. Typical English arrogance.

If you care to look back I said the best team won. If you truly believe that Wales were not engaging early on the scrums they dominated well...... typical lazy viewer.

And yet again it seems Jim Telfer is correct about us both.

[Morgannwg]

They engaged early once and the penalty went against Scotland. You need to stop being an anti-welsh cyclops for once.

[Heaf]

Morg, can't you give it a rest with the arrogant English thing?

I don't think I've seen anyone say Joubert was the reason for Wales winning - most seem to acknowledge that Wales were the better team and deserved to win.

It's perfectly possible to make an observation that the ref was poor without it being an attack on Wales or implying they only won because of that - how is that being arrogant?

[TJ1]

Poor efferring is never an excuse. Refs have a very hard task. Sometimes it goes for you - this time it seems it ewent against us. We were not good enough to score tries.

I only saw bits of the game but a few things stand out amongst the stats. Neither team actually ran far with the ball, the scots back 3 got more ball than the welsh back 3 and did more with it

Overall stats are pretty equal

Not a great advert for the game. Its supposed to be entertainment

[Hound_of_Harrow]

Morg - you didn't notice Chequered Jersey's post a page or so back when he congratulated Wales on the win?

Did you still have the eye patch on and forget to take the monocle off the other eye.

You do come across as someone who only sees what they want to.

However, I will echo CJ's congratulations on the win. It wasn't a game that was easy on the eye (no pun intended ) but Wales were comfortably the better team.

[samuraidragon]

Lets not make any bones about this, Wales were rubbish, but, they were still far superior to Scotland in every facet of the game, I predicted last week that it would be Wales by seven to ten points and I was tarred and feathered by our Sottish contingent on here, do I think Wales will bat England ? No. Scotland are way off the pace, if they can loose to us with these clowns running the show, then they need to take a good look at themselves.

We'll certainly have to step it up against England. We made hard work of this game, partly due to 1/2p's uncharacteristic misses, but also because of lack of creativity. Doubt a simple bosh-over try like Hibbard's could be scored against England, France or any of the SH teams.

The backs hardly ever got the ball. MP was choosing pick-and-go or close bosh ball every time. Again I was frustrated by the "walk in the park" stroll around thing he does.

Scots offered little and our pack dominated physically --so the margin could and should have been wider.

[bsando]

Oi! This ain't no England vs Wales bickering thread! You blokes have your very own thread for that, do it on there please

Who wants Scott Johnson as coach now?

I thought he gave the best post match interview I have seen in many a year.

Yeah he's been great in the interviews, but will he bring the "W's" ? The game last week was a win and I loved it, but I didn't feel very convinced by what I saw in terms of attack. My view is Scotland have good backs and that should be their no. 1 priority, getting the ball to them. So far it's just been kick it up or kick it deep. Sure, there have been some great kicks, but kicking will only get the team so far. Scotland have become very predictable again in only 4 games. Wales had Scotland's number and put good pressure on kickers today and fought hard at the breakdown. In my view, Johnson needs to show more.

When available I think Scotland really need to pick a 7 who is very mobile. Don't know too much about Harley but he didn't look that sort of player. Someone like Rennie I think would improve the team no end. Brown, Rennie, Beattie - but asking them to focus on their primary strengths. Not convinced by Weir, and I think the Hamilton, Gray partnership may be too samey. Biggest issue is Scotland's inability to clear out and forwards failing to work as a unit, either in driving or rucking. I genuinely think the players are there to compete with any of the 6Ns teams when all fit.

I agree! Harley has been a ghost last two games (no offence to pasty gingers intended) after a fantastic game vs Italy. But we have really missed rennie at 7. However, we have Roddy grant who had a fantastic game at 7 vs Glasgow after Xmas and I think he could have provided the same as rennie this 6 nations and should have been in training squad. As for Gray Hamilton, they work well in line outs and Hamilton gives the scrum more oomph, but yes it is a bit samey. Swinson is looking really good for Glasgow and I think he'll replace Hamilton in years to come. I thought weir was much better than Jackson actually. Forwards have been biggest issue for Scotland, but I just think they've been unable to do their job properly due to the endless kicking. In past Scotland have been good at the breakdown but Johnson or ryan isn't getting them to commit numbers there. This results in slow ball when we have it and little or no back line play, which in my view is pretty rubbish.

[Guest]

Morg - you didn't notice Chequered Jersey's post a page or so back when he congratulated Wales on the win?

Did you still have the eye patch on and forget to take the monocle off the other eye.

You do come across as someone who only sees what they want to.

However, I will echo CJ's congratulations on the win. It wasn't a game that was easy on the eye (no pun intended ) but Wales were comfortably the better team.

Chequered Jersey is English isn't he/she? I think the call was for some congratulations from the Scots, which at times has been lacking.

[Glas a du]

Well that was an arm wrestle.

[Guest]

I thought we (Wales) played pretty badly for most of it. We gave away a lot of silly penalties through our own fault, unforced rather than due to Scotland pressure. I'm thinking of the penalties for being ahead of the kicker, etc. Silly things like that allowed Scotland to come straight back on the scoreboard and stopped us from pulling away. Credit to Scotland for not letting us get more than a score away. That kept us conservative IMO. A bit more daylight between the scores and I think we would have tried to be a bit more expansive.

[Casartelli]

Grim viewing. Ridiculous pre-planned substitutions at the end put Wales under unnecessary pressure too.

Difficult to know what to take from the game. This dismal Bishbosh isn't going to bother England, but Howley isn't going to try anything new.

We're on a mini winning streak, but against very out-of-sorts teams. The first half against Ireland is still fresh in the memory.

[samuraidragon]

Grim viewing. Ridiculous pre-planned substitutions at the end put Wales under unnecessary pressure too.

Difficult to know what to take from the game. This dismal Bishbosh isn't going to bother England, but Howley isn't going to try anything new.

We're on a mini winning streak, but against very out-of-sorts teams. The first half against Ireland is still fresh in the memory.

Agreed. Emblematic that North made that great break, but then butchered the passing opportunity. Offloading seems to be forbidden these days. Yes, Hibbard managed to bosh over in the end, but Scotland and Italy are probably the only teams you can do that to.

The saving grace was Scotland's discipline was terrible. That penalty that Hamilton gave away on the stroke of halftime was simply nuts.

No real creativity by either side. In fact the only back who showed some spontaneity was Weir with that chip and chase.

Need to step up bigtime.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Grim viewing. Ridiculous pre-planned substitutions at the end put Wales under unnecessary pressure too.

Difficult to know what to take from the game. This dismal Bishbosh isn't going to bother England, but Howley isn't going to try anything new.

We're on a mini winning streak, but against very out-of-sorts teams. The first half against Ireland is still fresh in the memory.

Sounds very much like England last year

[thebluesmancometh]

PSW

How is there any comparison, England last year were a very new disjointed team with a tactic of keeping things extremely simple due to a new coaching set up and plenty of new players around the squad. They were limited in what they could try, and had a host of young players. They went into the Wales game as underdogs at Twickenham (first time I remember Wales going to Twickers as favourites) and played the type of game plan to limit Wales.

Wales have been togather far longer and have a much more settled team, they should comfortably be putting performances like this to bed early on, Scotland were poor and Wales made little from it!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Should would could...the point being they dont look particularly good but they are winning games. That has to be a step forward from the summer and autumn?

Sometimes I suspect you like to argue just for the sake of it (mr award winner!)

[Guest]

Pot and kettle there Mr PSW!

[majesticimperialman]

Sam Warburton, Man Of the MATCH? that as to be the biggest joke of the day.

Instead of offering a nothing post (three times too), offer something constructive for a change and state who your MOTM was. It might give a slight hint that you can contribute to a discussion then. Warburton was probably the most standout player in the key part of the game.

I've already pointed out to this arrogant englishman that he was wrong in his prediction for the third time in a row. It seems if you show up his posts with facts and intelligence he doesn't have an answer.

First of all to both of you, my tripple post was an accident.

I actualy thought that the one person who was the most stand out player for Wales was Mike Phillips. Yes i dont often defend Phillips or say any thing good about him, but i thought that he had a really good game for Wales yesterday. ok.

[samuraidragon]

Sam Warburton, Man Of the MATCH? that as to be the biggest joke of the day.

Instead of offering a nothing post (three times too), offer something constructive for a change and state who your MOTM was. It might give a slight hint that you can contribute to a discussion then. Warburton was probably the most standout player in the key part of the game.

I've already pointed out to this arrogant englishman that he was wrong in his prediction for the third time in a row. It seems if you show up his posts with facts and intelligence he doesn't have an answer.

First of all to both of you, my tripple post was an accident.

I actualy thought that the one person who was the most stand out player for Wales was Mike Phillips. Yes i dont often defend Phillips or say any thing good about him, but i thought that he had a really good game for Wales yesterday. ok.

Disagree, actually. He did some good things, as always, but also sauntered around with the ball a few times like a bloke out for a walk. The way Wales play, the 9 is the game-maker. So it was MP's call to keep the ball tight, go to the blindside, etc, ensuring the centres and wing got slow or no ball for the entire game.

[Glas a du]

AWJ would have been my MOTM. His defence on the line was fantastic. Warburton did little but his turn overs when Tipuric was on as well were at a crucial time and were a big lift for the boys. I can see why Jiffy did it.

[bedfordwelsh]

My view for what its worth:

It was a poor game ruined by the ref but he was poor against both sides.

BUT after our 8 losses including that first half against Ireland if some had said to me we would win 3 away on the bounce and being going into the last weekend with a (albeit mathematical) chance of winning the championship I would have bitten their hand off.

Our scrum has looked very strong in last few games and I would start James next week irrelevant of Jenkins' fitness.

Our line out has in general been reliable and AWJ did add that bit extra yesterday but Coombs has proved himself and should been involved in future squads.

There is something missing in the backs though it just doesn't seem to be working and we do need a 'playmaker' in there somewhere.

Can we win next week? Yes of course we can

Will we win? Thats a different question all together, we have seen England teams in the past be too cocky and thick they only have to turn up BUT I dont think that will happen under Lancaster.

If we win will we win by enough points? Afraid not for me.

[RDSguru]

My view for what its worth: There is something missing in the backs though

That "something" was the ball

[samuraidragon]

My view for what its worth:

It was a poor game ruined by the ref but he was poor against both sides.

BUT after our 8 losses including that first half against Ireland if some had said to me we would win 3 away on the bounce and being going into the last weekend with a (albeit mathematical) chance of winning the championship I would have bitten their hand off.

Our scrum has looked very strong in last few games and I would start James next week irrelevant of Jenkins' fitness.

Our line out has in general been reliable and AWJ did add that bit extra yesterday but Coombs has proved himself and should been involved in future squads.

There is something missing in the backs though it just doesn't seem to be working and we do need a 'playmaker' in there somewhere.

Can we win next week? Yes of course we can

Will we win? Thats a different question all together, we have seen England teams in the past be too cocky and thick they only have to turn up BUT I dont think that will happen under Lancaster.

If we win will we win by enough points? Afraid not for me.

Agree with that. We can beat England, but not by a big margin. We haven't beaten anybody by a big margin in years.

[Casartelli]

Even if we did tackle our socks off, managed somehow to stop England rumbling over the gainline and scraped a win, is that still enough to keep people happy? 'As long as we beat the English' and all that small-minded nonsense.

This style of play is never going to be enough against the best teams, or even average teams playing well (like Argentina and Samoa). We're still very underpowered in contact and when a team exploits this, like Ireland did, we get smashed.

Frustrating thing is, we've got the biggest, strongest running backline we've ever had - but utilising it isn't in the gameplan. Unless things change we will look back on this as a missed opportunity - the Wales team that was never allowed to play to its potential. We could have been consistently in the IRB Top 3 if we'd played some rugby occasionally.

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