Ireland Squad announced for France (O'Gara Axed)

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Squad:
Rory Best
Sean Cronin
Robbie Diack
Keith Earls
Luke Fitzgerald
Declan Fitzpatrick
Craig Gilroy
Cian Healy
Jamie Heaslip
Iain Henderson
Paddy Jackson
Dave Kilcoyne
Dave Kearney
Rob Kearney
Ian Madigan
Luke Marshall
Mike McCarthy
Fergus McFadden
Connor Murray
Sean O'Brien
Donncha O'Callaghan
Tommy O'Donnell
Brian O'Driscoll
Peter O'Mahony
Eoin O'Malley
Eoin Reddan
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Johnathan Sexton
Andrew Trimble
Devin Toner
Dan Tuohy

No ROG...... Shocked

O'Malley, Tuohy, Diack, D Kearney and Trimble all called up
Court and Stevenson drop out

by marty2086 Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:09 pm

Diacks played well recently and we need competition at 8, hopefully itll help Diack kick on and up his game and maybe provide the kick up the backside Heaslip is in dire need of

by logie28 Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:14 pm

I hear what you are saying, 'we havent won as much as we should have over the last ten years, so let's throw all the older players involved away and start again' (excuse the paraphrasing)

I respectfully disagree, each player must be judged on their own merits, not tarred with a 'youre all past it, so must go' brush. BOD and POC can still make important contributions for Ireland in my opinion, and youth should be blended into any team if you want them to flourish successfully, re the Man U way. Just because others were deemed past it doesnt mean Fergi threw Giggs and Scholes away too.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:53 pm

red_stag wrote:Gibson,

O'Driscoll won't call it a day for the same reason that O'Gara won't.

He would lose so much money without his IRFU contract. Most players nowadays simply keep playing until the body wont let them as this is their livelihood and main source of income.

However much Drico or ROG would get doing the rounds as after dinner speakers or appearing on RTE it isnt a patch on what they currently make.

We need a coach who is willing to make big calls and make the decision for them.

I honestly think he will call it a day on his international career Stag. He has just become a Dad. This alters a mans mind beyond all reason. And, he already has pots of money (for a rugby career that is) - in the bank. His after-dinner speech circuits will make him even more Worldwide geld. So its not money that will make the decision for him, imo.

If he makes the Lions, and I think Gats wants him there, it would be a class way to end it all. He has just seen ROG make that delusional mistake. Sporting immortality comes when you get out at the very top.

My money is on BOD retiring internationally after the Lions. He still has another year in him and maybe even another HC, at Leinster, if spared international duty. We'll see.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm

True that. BOD is in his last season most likely but if he had another season in him without a ROG-esque dip, he could still contribute.

As for O'Connell- he's 34 and coming back from a long-term injury. Maybe he can still contribute but he needs to prove it at porvincial level first instead of being fast tracked back. Same with any long-term injury imo, especially for older players whose bodies take longer to recover.

DOC looks about as good as the likes of Tuohy, Stevenson, McCarthy etc. so while he may still be useful as squad cover thats about it.

by red_stag Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:55 pm

Hope so Gibbo I dont see it happening. I think he will try another season or so.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:06 pm

logie28 wrote:I hear what you are saying, 'we havent won as much as we should have over the last ten years, so let's throw all the older players involved away and start again' (excuse the paraphrasing)

I respectfully disagree, each player must be judged on their own merits, not tarred with a 'youre all past it, so must go' brush. BOD and POC can still make important contributions for Ireland in my opinion, and youth should be blended into any team if you want them to flourish successfully, re the Man U way. Just because others were deemed past it doesnt mean Fergi threw Giggs and Scholes away too.

Logie,
I would agree with most of that bud. Just one differ, Deccie is not Fergie. He failed to do that. He failed to blend experience and youth when it was optimum. He waited until the Giggsys and Scholsies were ready to fall of their perch.

Its too late for that now.

Anyway, that is Wendyball. No comparison imo. Could they take the mental and physical pain that BOD and POC have taken in their careers? The hardest thing that ever happened to them, on 200k a week, is getting their hair tossed. POC and BOD got paid that a year, until recently.

I have no time for Giggs btw. Scholes was and is his Master. On and off the pitch.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:10 pm

Just found a quote that sums up everything thats wrong about the way we assess players in Ireland. It's in the comments on the BBC article about ROG getting the chop;

"of course he shouldn't still be the out half, and to be honest if he wasn't my uncle's neighour at the time i probably would have a different opinion of him"

Laugh

Thats an Ulster fan btw.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:15 pm

On Bod, I think he will call it a day. The stage is set; Lions tour, new family, contract running down and he's lost the Captaincy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9896338/Six-Nations-2013-Irelands-Brian-ODriscoll-admits-birth-of-his-first-child-damaged-his-focus-against-England.html

I think he might just go of his own accord.

by red_stag Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:16 pm

Notch it is summed up best on the RTE website.

Most of the comments read something along the lines of:

"Disgrace to see one of our most decorated players treated like this. Do they not remember his drop goal in Cardiff? Hate to see this type of scapegoating"

As a national in general we get hung up in the past.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:28 pm

Yeah it's bizarre. People just aren't watching him play rugby lately is the only thing I can think of. The front page of the Independent tomorrow has this at the top; "O'GARA AXED; KIDNEY TAKES HUGE GAMBLE"

It's really, incredibly bizarre.

Of course, no matter how well Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan do- they will never win a Heineken Cup with Munster Wink

And there's a rugby/cultural thing as well. Saw a comment on another forum saying Jackson did everything right except the kicking, and thats his job. As a place kicker yes but as a 10 not necessarily, though it was on the day. It seems like we assume the 10 is always the kicker and assess outhalves entirely on their kicking at goal. Goal kicking is important, but however good a kicker you are you can't be carried if you can't perform any other part of the 10s job. Down in Munster, some fans seem to neglect to assess 10s on anything but the boot.

I mean, Paddy had a poor day kicking at goal in Scotland and we should have had another place kicker in the backline as that was always a possibility. But he created three line breaks that would have won us the game if converted.

I don't get the mentality that 10 is for drop goals, kicks to the corner and kicks at goal. So limiting.

by **profitius** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:52 pm

ROG reached his peak years ago. He was well on his way down during the last world cup and last season was poor. This season he has been terrible. For his own sake he should retire in the summer.

Good decision by Kidney but too little too late to save his job.

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 11:58 pm

Gibson wrote:
red_stag wrote:Gibson,

O'Driscoll won't call it a day for the same reason that O'Gara won't.

He would lose so much money without his IRFU contract. Most players nowadays simply keep playing until the body wont let them as this is their livelihood and main source of income.

However much Drico or ROG would get doing the rounds as after dinner speakers or appearing on RTE it isnt a patch on what they currently make.

We need a coach who is willing to make big calls and make the decision for them.

I honestly think he will call it a day on his international career Stag. He has just become a Dad. This alters a mans mind beyond all reason. And, he already has pots of money (for a rugby career that is) - in the bank. His after-dinner speech circuits will make him even more Worldwide geld. So its not money that will make the decision for him, imo.

If he makes the Lions, and I think Gats wants him there, it would be a class way to end it all. He has just seen ROG make that delusional mistake. Sporting immortality comes when you get out at the very top.

My money is on BOD retiring internationally after the Lions. He still has another year in him and maybe even another HC, at Leinster, if spared international duty. We'll see.

I think its the IRFU who will call a halt to his international career (by not offering him an international contract). We should know after the 6Ns. I can't think of anyone who got out at the top - you just forget the bad bits generally - for example, Johnny Wilkinson had a pretty awful world cup - but who remembers that now?

By the way, BOD said recently he couldn't imagine just playing for Leinster and not for Ireland.

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:02 am

But Notch, it would be nice to have the full set. A la Carter. Why limit ourselves to any individual players limitations? It is counter-productive.

If Paddy Jackson cant nail over 80% of his international place-kicks, on a regular basis, he will fail at an International level. As will Madigan.

Sexton is so far ahead of them, on all counts, it is a daunting proposition. They are possible able and willing backup. Maybe they have the right stuff to follow him. We dont know that yet. That is all we really know, as it stands.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:06 am

Notch wrote:Yeah it's bizarre. People just aren't watching him play rugby lately is the only thing I can think of. The front page of the Independent tomorrow has this at the top; "O'GARA AXED; KIDNEY TAKES HUGE GAMBLE"

It's really, incredibly bizarre.

Of course, no matter how well Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan do- they will never win a Heineken Cup with Munster

And there's a rugby/cultural thing as well. Saw a comment on another forum saying Jackson did everything right except the kicking, and thats his job. As a place kicker yes but as a 10 not necessarily, though it was on the day. It seems like we assume the 10 is always the kicker and assess outhalves entirely on their kicking at goal. Goal kicking is important, but however good a kicker you are you can't be carried if you can't perform any other part of the 10s job. Down in Munster, some fans seem to neglect to assess 10s on anything but the boot.

I mean, Paddy had a poor day kicking at goal in Scotland and we should have had another place kicker in the backline as that was always a possibility. But he created three line breaks that would have won us the game if converted.

I don't get the mentality that 10 is for drop goals, kicks to the corner and kicks at goal. So limiting.

Both Jackson & Madigan will be lucky if they win one Heineken Cup. O'Gara is regarded as the best player of the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup and he only won two.

Jackson is well able to place kick. He just needs to practice it more in pressure situations.

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:19 am

O Gaga better than BOD in the HC? Or on any other possible rugby platform?

Shane The Midget Williams, got the World Player of the Year Award in 2009.

Those PC titles are meaningless in the Real World.

Everyone (except you), knows that.

As de Yanks say... You do the Math.

As your online Attorney, Id advise you to take a mental rest SIN.

This is not the best time for you dude.

Have an offline chat with Beshocked. Ye two would get on like a house on fire.

by Golden Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:25 am

Does Madigan not already have a Heiniken cup medal?

by Golden Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:26 am

Gibson wrote:
I don't need to write BOD off. Unlike ROG, he will know when it is time. He will make that call himself. POC,like Ferris, can no longer be relied upon. They have been walking injuries for 2 years now. Ergo, put their replacements in place now and back them. We have made this mistake with practically every single one of the failed Golden Generation. Held on to them way past their international sell-by date.

Time be ruthless. This is a pro game now. No time for sentiment.

In fairness to Rag he wanted to call it a day after the World cup.

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:38 am

Notch wrote:On Bod, I think he will call it a day. The stage is set; Lions tour, new family, contract running down and he's lost the Captaincy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9896338/Six-Nations-2013-Irelands-Brian-ODriscoll-admits-birth-of-his-first-child-damaged-his-focus-against-England.html

I think he might just go of his own accord.

Just read that. Beautiful. And somehow, I didnt really need to read it to fully understand it beforehand.

He will end it all with the Lions.

Pick him Gats. He will give you all of that is left of his ju-ju.

And that's a lot more than any other player you may pick for the Tour.

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:41 am

Golden wrote:Does Madigan not already have a Heiniken cup medal?

Yup. But dont tell SIN that ja?

by Golden Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:42 am

Gibson wrote:
Notch wrote:On Bod, I think he will call it a day. The stage is set; Lions tour, new family, contract running down and he's lost the Captaincy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/ireland/9896338/Six-Nations-2013-Irelands-Brian-ODriscoll-admits-birth-of-his-first-child-damaged-his-focus-against-England.html

I think he might just go of his own accord.

Just read that. Beautiful. And somehow, I didnt really need to read it to fully understand it beforehand.

He will end it all with the Lions.

Pick him Gats. He will give you all of that is left of his ju-ju.

And that's a lot more than any other player you may pick for the Tour.

Im sure his misses wont be too pleased with that Whistle

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 12:47 am

Golden wrote:
Gibson wrote:
I don't need to write BOD off. Unlike ROG, he will know when it is time. He will make that call himself. POC,like Ferris, can no longer be relied upon. They have been walking injuries for 2 years now. Ergo, put their replacements in place now and back them. We have made this mistake with practically every single one of the failed Golden Generation. Held on to them way past their international sell-by date.

Time be ruthless. This is a pro game now. No time for sentiment.

In fairness to Rag he wanted to call it a day after the World cup.

No Golden, that was just him spitting his souther out of the pram, like he has done all his career. Just ask David Humphreys, who was a far superior 10.

The man had no class. A ligind in Munster. A bollix outside of his province.

The complete and utter opposite to the man they call Felipe. A class act on every level.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 1:32 am

Gibson wrote:
Golden wrote:Does Madigan not already have a Heiniken cup medal?

Yup. But dont tell SIN that ja?

The Leinster tea lady has a Heineken Cup medal.

by Gibson Mon 04 Mar 2013, 1:56 am

Sin é wrote:
Gibson wrote:
Golden wrote:Does Madigan not already have a Heiniken cup medal?

Yup. But dont tell SIN that ja?

The Leinster tea lady has a Heineken Cup medal.

Of course she does. She makes a lovely cuppa tae for Winners. Remember that? Winning I mean?

We bought her a new Tea-pot. Its shaped like the Heino Cup.

We will get that Big Shiney Cup back for Our Mavis next year. We promised. This year, we will be mostly drinking from both the Amlin and PRO12 cups.

Any mugs left down in Munster?

Or are ye still living off our severely diminished, Dublin D4 riches?

Just say thanks for the Leinster Way players who did not make it at Source. We will fill yer province full of em.

Munster are the new Connacht.

by doctor_grey Mon 04 Mar 2013, 2:21 am

Don't you all think it is a wee bit sad this is how O'Gara is going out? Some poor performances, looking old, making bad mistakes, and being dropped from the national team (as opposed to retiring). He has given Munster and Ireland fans some good to great memories, and now everyone wants him playing for Siberia RFC. Shame, really.

by **George Carlin** Mon 04 Mar 2013, 6:29 am

1. You cannot drop Jackson. That'll set his confidence back something terrible.
2. Court got a bit of a squishing from 'Jazzy' Geoff Cross - I think that's why he vanished.
3. This seems to be a 'please don't sack me' selection by Deccie.
4. Presumably Jackson will be told that he's kicking more than 10 minutes before kick off this time?
5. Heaslip needs to stop being silly & choose kicking the points when they're available. Ireland's line out is not as bulletproof as it once was.
6. Is ROG going to have to be wheeled out aged 90 with an iron lung and an arthritic hip before people stop asking him to play?
7. There is absolutely no point 7.

by Kingshu Mon 04 Mar 2013, 8:54 am

Trimble?

Is Trimble being drafted in again to be dropped, (DK's favourite game this season, he must just love seeing Trimbles face each time he tells him he didn't make the squad, and adds him at the next chance so he can drop him and see it again).

But Trimbles performances have been great recently, and good all season, is he in with a chance of starting the French game this time? Or will Lovechild Earls hold on to the wing spot even after his two mistakes cost us?

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Mar 2013, 9:53 am

Wonder will the Scotland match be Rogs last ever match? I dont get sentimental easlily but I wish he has chosen to retire himself so we could give him a rousing send off.

That said I'm glad he hasnt been picked. Hopefully Jackson and Madigan can hit the ground running.

by RubyGuby Mon 04 Mar 2013, 9:59 am

It must be tough for OGara psychologically - He looked out of sorts against the Ospreys this weekend and it was a poor game by his standards. I just feel he's done it all and I'm not convinced he's really motivated - he seems to be going throught the motions - he doesn't look to be enjoying his rugby and that's a shame. He needs to take the world off his back and just enjoy each game now. That's the very least this fella deserves thumbsup

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:07 am

It's a shame that the last couple of years of this career have gone the way they have. It's a shame that the medja have a hard on for him, even though he can't live up to their hype anymore.

But that's the way it is, no man is bigger than the team, despite what Conor George (who's no doubt inconsolable right now) thinks.

So long ROG, and thanks for all the great memories.

Welcome to the big show Ian, hope you do yourself proud.

by RubyGuby Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:15 am

Is Steenson on the Irish radar or not - Pretty solid out half and very competent goal kicker

by red_stag Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:22 am

A really stupid way to do things by Kidney though.

If he simply picked Jackson as backup to Sexton from the start and then introduced Madigan when Sexton got injured nobody would bat an eyelid.

If he waited two games and then just didnt pick ROG for USA tour this summer nobody would bat an eyelid.

But he made a decision, realised it was the wrong one and backpedalled - a move that we have seen a few times.

Reminds me of playing Cave against NZ and then rapidly panicking and flying in Paddy Wallace for the next test.

I want a coach who has belief and conviction in his decisions. I'm half expecting O'Driscoll to be reinstated as captain any day now.

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:26 am

red_stag wrote:A really stupid way to do things by Kidney though.

If he simply picked Jackson as backup to Sexton from the start and then introduced Madigan when Sexton got injured nobody would bat an eyelid.

If he waited two games and then just didnt pick ROG for USA tour this summer nobody would bat an eyelid.

But he made a decision, realised it was the wrong one and backpedalled - a move that we have seen a few times.

Reminds me of playing Cave against NZ and then rapidly panicking and flying in Paddy Wallace for the next test.

I want a coach who has belief and conviction in his decisions. I'm half expecting O'Driscoll to be reinstated as captain any day now.

I know exactly what you mean, but at least he made the right call eventually. The last sting of a dying wasp, stung ROG on the arse.

by red_stag Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:26 am

RubyGuby wrote: Is Steenson on the Irish radar or not - Pretty solid out half and very competent goal kicker

To be honest I hope he isn't. We have a number of promising flyhalves who will learn and develop internationally behind Sexton.

- Ian Madigan
- Ian Keatley
- JJ Hanrahan
- Paddy Jackson

I am wary of Steenson in that all we have to go by is solid performances in the Premiership. Having seen the lack of impact that the likes of James Downey and Johne Murphy have had in Munster despite being very good Premiership players I would hesitate in bringing in Steenson.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:29 am

Mickado wrote:It's a shame that the last couple of years of this career have gone the way they have. It's a shame that the medja have a hard on for him, even though he can't live up to their hype anymore.

But that's the way it is, no man is bigger than the team, despite what Conor George (who's no doubt inconsolable right now) thinks.

So long ROG, and thanks for all the great memories.

Welcome to the big show Ian, hope you do yourself proud.

Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:30 am

...everyone was raving about Murphy in Munster when he first started playing there. What happened him?

by red_stag Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:33 am

GunsGerms wrote:...everyone was raving about Murphy in Munster when he first started playing there. What happened him?

We found out that he was an average player. We were raving as we thought we were onto something. Player was scoring for fun over in England but has looked poor for Munster. Other players such as Zebo, Howlett and Earls provide much better options on the wing.

by Golden Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:34 am

Isnt Steenson second to Mieres at the Chiefs?

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:35 am

Sin é wrote:
Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

O'Gara wasnt great at all at the world cup at all. Rhys Priestland probably had a better WC. In reality there wasnt any good performances from any OHs at the WC which is why he probably made that list. He certainly should have retired after the WC especially given that he said he would during the tournament in what was probably just an attempt to get a couple more caps.

by RubyGuby Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:37 am

There's a lot of rotation at the Chiefs but Farrell for example isn't exactly dynamic; he just gets the basics right - I'm just thinking that Ireland need a good anchorman at 10 rather than a runner (I may be wrong) - Sexton can do both but you need someone who can control the game, maybe Paddy and the other youngsters will develop given more game time at this level thumbsup

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:37 am

red_stag wrote:A really stupid way to do things by Kidney though.

If he simply picked Jackson as backup to Sexton from the start and then introduced Madigan when Sexton got injured nobody would bat an eyelid.

Jackson got injured (or upset a leg injury) playing in the Wolfhounds game.

If he waited two games and then just didnt pick ROG for USA tour this summer nobody would bat an eyelid.

But he made a decision, realised it was the wrong one and backpedalled - a move that we have seen a few times.

Reminds me of playing Cave against NZ and then rapidly panicking and flying in Paddy Wallace for the next test.

I want a coach who has belief and conviction in his decisions. I'm half expecting O'Driscoll to be reinstated as captain any day now.

For all we know, ROG might have asked not to be included in a squad if he didn't have a chance of making it.

Cave was obviously not up to it. He got two chances to prove himself (Ba-Baas & ABs). BOD probably wanted Wallace anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me if BOD is dropped for the Italian game. He isn't having the desired affect on the team - in that they seem paralysed into waiting for him to do something magical when he is there. He is like a crutch now to them rather than an aid.

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:38 am

Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:It's a shame that the last couple of years of this career have gone the way they have. It's a shame that the medja have a hard on for him, even though he can't live up to their hype anymore.

But that's the way it is, no man is bigger than the team, despite what Conor George (who's no doubt inconsolable right now) thinks.

So long ROG, and thanks for all the great memories.

Welcome to the big show Ian, hope you do yourself proud.

Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

Other than score two last minute drop goals, what exactly did he do last season? He hasn't played a good game in a long time.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:42 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

O'Gara wasnt great at all at the world cup at all. Rhys Priestland probably had a better WC. In reality there wasnt any good performances from any OHs at the WC which is why he probably made that list. He certainly should have retired after the WC especially given that he said he would during the tournament in what was probably just an attempt to get a couple more caps.

Its about time people realise that the reason O'Gara stayed on (and was wanted to stay on) was because the other options let him and the IRFU wouldn't let him break his contract. Sexton had a terrible world cup (he says that himself) so don't rewrite that history and basically he just spent the last year holding Sexton's hand.

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:47 am

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

O'Gara wasnt great at all at the world cup at all. Rhys Priestland probably had a better WC. In reality there wasnt any good performances from any OHs at the WC which is why he probably made that list. He certainly should have retired after the WC especially given that he said he would during the tournament in what was probably just an attempt to get a couple more caps.

Its about time people realise that the reason O'Gara stayed on (and was wanted to stay on) was because the other options let him and the IRFU wouldn't let him break his contract. Sexton had a terrible world cup (he says that himself) so don't rewrite that history and basically he just spent the last year holding Sexton's hand.

No, O'Gara stayed on because he is getting paid well to stay. Nobody forced him to.

Sexton's kicking was poor. He was good enough in every other way. Nearly all OHs struggled with kicking at that WC.

I sure Sexton would rather O'Gara wasnt around to "hold his hand". He is a big boy now.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:47 am

Mickado wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Mickado wrote:It's a shame that the last couple of years of this career have gone the way they have. It's a shame that the medja have a hard on for him, even though he can't live up to their hype anymore.

But that's the way it is, no man is bigger than the team, despite what Conor George (who's no doubt inconsolable right now) thinks.

So long ROG, and thanks for all the great memories.

Welcome to the big show Ian, hope you do yourself proud.

Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

Other than score two last minute drop goals, what exactly did he do last season? He hasn't played a good game in a long time.

O'Gara was dragging Munster through their pool games up to the end of January last year. 8 weeks sitting on the bench didn't help his form and then a leg injury at the QF (Darran Cave tackle) meant he was playing catch-up for the rest of the season. Subbing obviously his difficult (particularly internationally), but his 30 mins against NZ for the 2nd test last summer was excellent.

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:49 am

Now who's re-writing history...

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:52 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Last couple of years? He made the 2011 IRB World Cup Dream team (voted best flyhalf at the world cup 2011) as well as being shortlisted for Irish Player of the Year (IRUPA) last season.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2060457.html

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. If Conor George is inconsolable, its because he knows he is losing one subject to write on that always attracts a readership (good or bad).

O'Gara wasnt great at all at the world cup at all. Rhys Priestland probably had a better WC. In reality there wasnt any good performances from any OHs at the WC which is why he probably made that list. He certainly should have retired after the WC especially given that he said he would during the tournament in what was probably just an attempt to get a couple more caps.

Its about time people realise that the reason O'Gara stayed on (and was wanted to stay on) was because the other options let him and the IRFU wouldn't let him break his contract. Sexton had a terrible world cup (he says that himself) so don't rewrite that history and basically he just spent the last year holding Sexton's hand.

No, O'Gara stayed on because he is getting paid well to stay. Nobody forced him to.

Sexton's kicking was poor. He was good enough in every other way. Nearly all OHs struggled with kicking at that WC.

I sure Sexton would rather O'Gara wasnt around to "hold his hand". He is a big boy now.

Paul McNaughton said at the world cup he couldn't retire because he had a contract.

Sexton's kicking was shocking - he was the worst - something like 40%. O'Gara didn't struggle with his kicking, unlike every other kicker.

I'm pretty sure Sexton would probably prefer to have O'Gara around - Sexton will now have to deal with younger players who will be given chances he won't get anymore.

by Sin é Mon 04 Mar 2013, 10:58 am

Mickado wrote:Now who's re-writing history...

Peter Bills: 'Eternal, incredible, immortal' O'Gara keeps glistening in his golden twilight
By Peter Bills

Tuesday November 22 2011

Inner peace is a state of mind that has become increasingly rare in modern life. As the old joke from 'Yes Minister' goes, when did you start acquiring a taste for such luxuries?

It is a situation beyond the reach of millions of citizens in our present world. Discovering a real peace in your mind is a highly desirable -- but increasingly elusive -- commodity.

Thus, to hear one of Ireland's most distinguished rugby men confess to arriving at such a destination was something of a surprise last weekend. But then, Ronan O'Gara has had an exceptional last couple of weeks.

His skilful last-minute drop goals in the Heineken Cup against Northampton and Castres turned a home defeat and away draw into two wins for Munster. These were notable acts, yet O'Gara was not referring to either when he revealed his true inner feelings and present state of mind.

What he meant was that, at 34, he felt in probably a better place mentally than he had ever been before. He has long since mastered the intricacies and demands of the out-half role in rugby's firmament. The long years of practice and playing experience have combined to provide an assurance -- a deep conviction that he knows the requirements and that he is equipped both mentally and physically to handle whatever is thrown at him.

He puts it like this. "The older I get the more I seem to enjoy it. At the World Cup I think I found inner peace. I had huge contentment and I think I played like it. Where did that come from? I think as you go on, you re-evaluate and get more experience.

"Before, I think I felt the pressure on me so much because of what I wanted to achieve. I don't think I am being cocky in saying I have now achieved a lot. But now I play for the enjoyment. Also now, I have kids and I see the other side of life; it isn't all just rugby. You can compartmentalise things so that you get the best out of rugby and the best out of your family life."

Maturity in human beings is every bit as attractive as in cheese. The flavour of what you get is greatly enhanced, the appeal likewise. O'Gara is hardly ready for his carpet slippers -- one glance at his lean, taut, sinewy body tells you that.

But at 34, he's in that desirable twilight era for a sportsperson where an individual well knows his or her capabilities can adapt accordingly and produce a series of top-quality performances in part because fear, inner doubts or outside pressures no longer invade the mind.

In some sports, this 'golden twilight' can last years.

O'Gara, in ever so subtle a way, strongly hinted that he has the mental desire to continue for some significant time yet. What did he say to justify that? Well, it was more the player he named as an example that revealed his thinking.

"An idol of mine was Diego Dominguez. I always thought he was a class act," were his words. This was a class comparison.

Out-half Dominguez was 37 years old when he played his last international, for Italy against Ireland in 2003. Even then, he played another year for crack French club Stade Francais before finally retiring at 38.

Dominguez won 74 caps for Italy (besides two for his native Argentina) and scored 983 points for the Azzurri. O'Gara, who was 34 in March, currently has 116 caps for Ireland and has amassed 1,075 points. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll have finished counting up how many he has managed for Munster.

So how much longer could O'Gara play for? The temptation these days is to end a World Cup and mentally write off any player the wrong side of 30. But this is absurd. Only later in life (or later in a sportsman's career, as in this case) is an individual truly at his peak; confident, calm, measured, in control of what he does and a major influence on those around him. To have watched O'Gara this year, firstly at the World Cup and most recently in Europe, is to have seen the truth of this borne out.

He himself brushes aside any invitation to forecast how long this twilight of his career might last. Two years, three years? "I don't know, I can't put a time limit on it.

"There are examples as the game changes, of course, but the one thing you can't beat is experience. I have always considered the mind the most powerful tool in sport. Everything comes from that and I think that is a good strength of mine.

"I don't feel there is any reason why I can't go on playing now. People say after a World Cup it is time to finish, but I feel I am playing as well now as I have ever played.

"If I can manage my body well, who knows? People can always talk you down or talk you in or out. But only you really know how you feel, how you are playing. And I feel I am enjoying my rugby greatly at the moment."

Perhaps the greatest challenge going forward in this particular scenario confronts not the player, but the onlooker. The latter is being asked to bury those years of prejudice that a rugby man is past his best at 30. Modern-day players like O'Gara and New Zealand full-back Mils Muliaina, who is in his 32nd year, are bucking that tend, turning old theory on its head by the excellence of their play.

You should judge not on mental hyperbole, but the evidence before your eyes. And just to ensure impartiality, let us leave the last words on O'Gara to a Frenchman who watched him in Toulouse at the weekend and a Kiwi who confronted him.

Raphael Ibanez was not only a very fine hooker, winning 72 caps for France including 27 as captain, he also led the French to successive Grand Slams in 1997 and '98 and went on to captain them at the '99 World Cup where they reached the final.

What did Ibanez think of O'Gara and Munster's performance last weekend? "Munster played with so much experience and you could spot the difference between a team that has been in the Heineken Cup for the last two years and a team like Munster.

"They were on the back foot in the first half, but they came back with some brilliant phases, especially the match-winner O'Gara. He is eternal, quite incredible. Immortal even. That's the kind of player you want to have in your team."

From the lips of Castres' beaten captain, ex-All Black Chris Masoe, came a similar tribute. "It came down to experience and being patient with the ball. In games like this when the going gets tough you have to rely on your most experienced players to deliver. And a guy like O'Gara does that every week."

- Peter Bills

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 11:08 am

I said apart for scoring two drop goals. And you post a link to people talking about 1 of his drop goals.

by Mickado Mon 04 Mar 2013, 11:11 am

In games like this when the going gets tough you have to rely on your most experienced players to deliver. And a guy like O'Gara does that every week

Just like the Scotland game then. Or South Africa. Or England.

by BelfastDickVet Mon 04 Mar 2013, 11:12 am

Hahahahaha you post a Peter Bills article and you expect people to take your argument serious! The man is a fool.

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