Referees and rugby vs football

First topic message reminder :

Looking at how footballers treat referees I thought we should discuss how rugby won't turn into the same kind of yob game football is.

So that means bringing in punitive measures designed to prevent it creeping into the game.

And it is.

So here's my proposal and, (penalty for offender)

1. High tackle - 10 mins in bin
2. Dangerous play other than high tackle - same
3. Back chat - 5mins in bin
4. Not back 10 - 5 mins in bin
5. Blocking player intentionally - 5 min in bin
6. Cheating on ground or bringing maul down - 5 mins or penalty try
7. Robot dancing - red card
8. Swallow dive. - insert unopened bottle of Heineken into anal bumhole. Twist accordingly.

There maybe more pls propose.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can't be bothered to read back, but has anyone mentioned Rio Ferdinand yet? It's an absolute disgrace that he isn't facing any punishment for his clapping in the referee's face at the final whistle.

The message couldn't be clearer: that football's governing bodies do not care about disrespect towards referees.

Yes I think Rio and others should be sanctioned. Very disrespectful to the ref. Repugnant behaviour and lets face it, it stems from their manager who is constantly abusing linesmen and 4th officials.

Amazing to see how football would react to a referees strike.

Once when I was reffing I was getting constant abuse from on the field and sidelines. Two rural teams with coaches and players very new to the game who had been brought up with GAA values not rugby ones.

Eventually before half time it became clear that speaking to captain, giving cards and talking to coaches wasnt going to cut it so I said why bother.

I handed my spare whistle to the home captain, got into my car and went home with 30 faces looking bewildered on what to do next.

Apparently they had nobody at the ground willing to referee the remainder of the game so the match had to finish.

I've been back there on several occasions and not an ounce of bother.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can't be bothered to read back, but has anyone mentioned Rio Ferdinand yet? It's an absolute disgrace that he isn't facing any punishment for his clapping in the referee's face at the final whistle.

The message couldn't be clearer: that football's governing bodies do not care about disrespect towards referees.

And then he wanted to shake hands...once his anger was satiated. I'm not suggesting players shouldn't be angry at decisons they feel are wrong. It's human reaction and instinct. But they have to learn to supress the baser forms of instinct and go into the tunnel to blow-off-steam against a wall or something.

Or throw some pizza around.

In a way, I don't blame the players; if you know you can rant and rave at match officials with impunity, why not? It's great stres relief, I'm sure. No, the problem lies with those who run football. If they gave the go-ahead for referees to book players for dissent, then sure, we'd see a weekend or two of players getting sent off, but they'd soon learn that what once was acceptable was no longer acceptable.

red_stag wrote:Amazing to see how football would react to a referees strike.

Once when I was reffing I was getting constant abuse from on the field and sidelines. Two rural teams with coaches and players very new to the game who had been brought up with GAA values not rugby ones.

Eventually before half time it became clear that speaking to captain, giving cards and talking to coaches wasnt going to cut it so I said why bother.

I handed my spare whistle to the home captain, got into my car and went home with 30 faces looking bewildered on what to do next.

Apparently they had nobody at the ground willing to referee the remainder of the game so the match had to finish.

I've been back there on several occasions and not an ounce of bother.

Nice one Stag. Fair deuce. That will learn em. Why the hell would anyone go out of their way to do anything for anyone just to get abused.

I understand how easy it can be to be frustrated about decisions going against you but leave the ref out of it.

Remember once playing in a club match as captain and my team and the other spent 80 minutes in a free for all just fighting with eachother. It was filthy. Dirtiest match ever.

Couple of days later the opposition captain wrote me a letter requesting that I join him in writing to the organisers of the league to get the ref removed for incompetence. Couldnt believe it. Told him to go F himself. Poor ref wasnt even getting paid. It was completly our fault as captains for allowing our teams to behave as we did.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Or throw some pizza around.

In a way, I don't blame the players; if you know you can rant and rave at match officials with impunity, why not? It's great stres relief, I'm sure. No, the problem lies with those who run football. If they gave the go-ahead for referees to book players for dissent, then sure, we'd see a weekend or two of players getting sent off, but they'd soon learn that what once was acceptable was no longer acceptable.

In fairness this a bit like tip tackling.

You'd have fans whose players got red carded pointing back to other incidents trying to claim it shouldn't have been a red.

We are seeing plenty of red cards for these tackles - Warburton, Tolofua, Shingler, Houggard, Hala'ufia, du Luca etc - but no matter fans and players still aren't grasping that it is unacceptable to lift a players legs above his head in a tackle.

I would assume there would be similar difficulties getting it to work.

I think there are appropriate ways of dealing with things. I actually thought it was a good call by Ferguson not attending the press conference afterwards. If you have to make a statement, that's the way to do it.

Rio's clapping of the ref at the end of the game on the otherhand I don't condone.

I appreciate that we all make mistakes, but this wasn't an amateur ref and this wasn't an amateur game of rugby in the park. This was one of the biggest club matches of all time, and the ref made a decision so bad and unjustified, and utterly ruined the match. Whilst I agree that Rio should be fined for his actions, the ref ought to face punishment as well, in the same way that I would were I to muck up a contract, or a player would were he to miss several open goals. That punishment may simply take the form of removal from the panel of elite refs, thus costing him in terms of job status and remuneration, but he is a professional and he blundered on an epic scale.

Big difference between reffing a game of rugby for free, and reffing a multi-million pound Champions League match on a professional basis. The Man Utd players didn't actually react too badly in the circumstances, Rio's clapping aside, and I applaud Ferguson for avoiding the press conference with emotions running high.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think there are appropriate ways of dealing with things. I actually thought it was a good call by Ferguson not attending the press conference afterwards. If you have to make a statement, that's the way to do it.

Rio's clapping of the ref at the end of the game on the otherhand I don't condone.

I agree with this. I was amazed to see that UEFA are sanctioning Man Utd for not doing the press conference at the end of the game and yet no sanction for Ferdinand.

Talk about mixed up priorities.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think there are appropriate ways of dealing with things. I actually thought it was a good call by Ferguson not attending the press conference afterwards. If you have to make a statement, that's the way to do it.

Rio's clapping of the ref at the end of the game on the otherhand I don't condone.

I appreciate that we all make mistakes, but this wasn't an amateur ref and this wasn't an amateur game of rugby in the park. This was one of the biggest club matches of all time, and the ref made a decision so bad and unjustified, and utterly ruined the match. Whilst I agree that Rio should be fined for his actions, the ref ought to face punishment as well, in the same way that I would were I to muck up a contract, or a player would were he to miss several open goals. That punishment may simply take the form of removal from the panel of elite refs, thus costing him in terms of job status and remuneration, but he is a professional and he blundered on an epic scale.

Big difference between reffing a game of rugby for free, and reffing a multi-million pound Champions League match on a professional basis. The Man Utd players didn't actually react too badly in the circumstances, Rio's clapping aside, and I applaud Ferguson for avoiding the press conference with emotions running high.

Why was it good to not attend a press conference? It shows disrespect for the media when they had already abused the refereeing team.

How did the ref make a bad decision though? He is entitled to give a red card to a player for raising their studs and connecting with an opponent. It seems to me that United staff and fans have been spoiled over the years with light touch referreeing and seem to think the football world own them something as evidenced by the quite repulsive reactions to the ref.

Even though he is a WUM I for once agree with Keane on this one.

red_stag wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think there are appropriate ways of dealing with things. I actually thought it was a good call by Ferguson not attending the press conference afterwards. If you have to make a statement, that's the way to do it.

Rio's clapping of the ref at the end of the game on the otherhand I don't condone.

I agree with this. I was amazed to see that UEFA are sanctioning Man Utd for not doing the press conference at the end of the game and yet no sanction for Ferdinand.

Talk about mixed up priorities.

Are they not contractually obliged to do press conferences? The amount of revenue that Man U get from being part of the champions league to not be bothered to do a press conference just shows a real level of childishness from Ferguson.

Agreed though Ferdinand and co. are more deserving of a good root in the hole even though Ferguson also got up in the face of the 4th oficial too as he so often does.

Somebody doesn't like Man Utd

red_stag wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Or throw some pizza around.

In a way, I don't blame the players; if you know you can rant and rave at match officials with impunity, why not? It's great stres relief, I'm sure. No, the problem lies with those who run football. If they gave the go-ahead for referees to book players for dissent, then sure, we'd see a weekend or two of players getting sent off, but they'd soon learn that what once was acceptable was no longer acceptable.

In fairness this a bit like tip tackling.

You'd have fans whose players got red carded pointing back to other incidents trying to claim it shouldn't have been a red.

We are seeing plenty of red cards for these tackles - Warburton, Tolofua, Shingler, Houggard, Hala'ufia, du Luca etc - but no matter fans and players still aren't grasping that it is unacceptable to lift a players legs above his head in a tackle.

I would assume there would be similar difficulties getting it to work.

I'm not sure the two are the same at all, Stag. Dissent - the screaming-in-your-face kind we see in football - is easy enough to spot. That's what I say should be met with a yellow card. Players would learn soon enough that it was no longer tolerated.

Yep, I ironically love the idea of a Coach/Manager deciding for himself whether he has anything to impart to the media. If he has nothing to say at that moment then he shouldn't be contractually forced to go out to a camera and ...well, not say it. ("Come on out, we want to see how mad you are" seems to be the reason for dragging angry coaches out into the media spotlight. It's voyeurism.
You can't force a humanbeing to speak. (You have the right as a journalist to ask them tough questions!!! by all means and hopefully ask the tough questions when they do show up...but they're in charge of the answers, if any)

So, although I think he's a gruff old guy, I like the idea that Ferguson is his own man in who he chooses to speak to and when. Yes, he'll get his punishment - so be it, he won't care, he's been there before.

His act of not speaking to the media is not a violent act, it's the act of someone saying I'm in control of my voice and my opinions, and when to use them, not the authorities. The media aren't 'us' or a representation of us...the media are paid personel who have careers of their own. They don't care about 'us', they care about selling us words and opinions. They're in it for themselves. Dublin Gaelic goalkeeper rarely if ever speaks to the media.

Was it Venter who used the rules and regulations about speaking to the press against them when he gave a few very bizarre interviews? He was saying, you might make me come before the cameras but I'll decide what I do in front of them, not you guys.

I loved it.

Disrespect the media???? Who cares??

You need to take a look at the relevant laws of the game. There needed to be intent to inflict injury on the opposition player for it to be a red card. It is clear that there was none. Former players, former referees and just about everyone who knows anything about football has come to the conclusion that the referee made a mistake.

Roy Keane is an idiot. Great player, but a WUM. He abandonned his country immediately before a World Cup. He's a lunatic, and in this case wrong.

Regardless of whether it's Man Utd or anyone else. It was a poor judgement from a professional paid serious money to make good judgements. Man Utd had every right to be angry. It ruined the game, and cost the club a small fortune.

I agree that Rio's reaction was awful at the end of the match, and players reacting to referees in general needs to be improved hugely in football (and increasingly in rugby). But after the match is finished, Ferguson had every right to express his fury, and in my view far better to do that by not saying anything than to take to the press conference and unleash his real opinions.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Roy Keane is an idiot. Great player, but a WUM. He abandonned his country immediately before a World Cup. He's a lunatic, and in this case wrong.

I'm from his country...and he didn't abandon me. You'll find there are a few of us still left who agreed with him and his stance. But we here will decide what he's done in terms of either abandoning us or not.

SecretFly wrote:Yep, I ironically love the idea of a Coach/Manager deciding for himself whether he has anything to impart to the media. If he has nothing to say at that moment then he shouldn't be contractually forced to go out to a camera and ...well, not say it. ("Come on out, we want to see how mad you are" seems to be the reason for dragging angry coaches out into the media spotlight. It's voyeurism.
You can't force a humanbeing to speak. (You have the right as a journalist to ask them tough questions!!! by all means and hopefully ask the tough questions when they do show up...but they're in charge of the answers, if any)

So, although I think he's a gruff old guy, I like the idea that Ferguson is his own man in who he chooses to speak to and when. Yes, he'll get his punishment - so be it, he won't care, he's been there before.

His act of not speaking to the media is not a violent act, it's the act of someone saying I'm in control of my voice and my opinions, and when to use them, not the authorities. The media aren't 'us' or a representation of us...the media are paid personel who have careers of their own. They don't care about 'us', they care about selling us words and opinions. They're in it for themselves. Dublin Gaelic goalkeeper rarely if ever speaks to the media.

Was it Venter who used the rules and regulations about speaking to the press against them when he gave a few very bizarre interviews? He was saying, you might make me come before the cameras but I'll decide what I do in front of them, not you guys.

I loved it.

Agree with this.

I prefer a coach to simply take the "if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all" approach instead of:

A) Lying and giving a stupid cliched interview
B) Being honest and copping a fine for it

I think Man Utd conduct was disgraceful towards the ref. However if a coach decides it is in their best interests to not address the media why should he be forced to?

Perhaps I should have said "team mates" then. He's still a lunatic though.

Great player. Poor manager. Dreadful pundit.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Somebody doesn't like Man Utd

I dont give a hoot about football. Stopped watching it a long time ago as it is no longer a sport IMO.

I have no allegiances but I do not like Alex Ferguson much Ill admit that. As for United you would expect more from such a high profile team but thats football. Its not just United its fairly wide spread in fairness. However, it does seem like United fans in particular are fairly narrow sighted and fanatical with regards to their team and any criticism towards them.

Just had lunch with a guy who almost choked on his sandwich when I said that the ref was abused by UTD players. He then proceeded to lecture me redfaced on how disgraceful the decision was and how justified the players were in surrounding him. Unbelievable!!

Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

Exactly my point. It shows a real lack of contempt for the organisers of the CL and the media and even the fans who wanted to see his views.. It seems to be that sometimes Fergie feels like he and his team are way above their station.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

This is correct. He should be fined accordingly, and it looks like that's going to happen. I still agree with his position though, breach or no breach.

I think Stag's point is more why focus on the press conference breach, and not on Rio's behaviour. Both are punishable in my view (one from a behavioural perspective and the other from a contractual perspective), albeit that I agree with Ferguson's decision.

GunsGerms wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

Exactly my point. It shows a real lack of contempt for the organisers of the CL and the media and even the fans who wanted to see his views.. It seems to be that sometimes Fergie feels like he and his team are way above their station.

A "lack of contempt" - is that a bad thing?

SecretFly wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Roy Keane is an idiot. Great player, but a WUM. He abandonned his country immediately before a World Cup. He's a lunatic, and in this case wrong.

I'm from his country...and he didn't abandon me. You'll find there are a few of us still left who agreed with him and his stance. But we here will decide what he's done in terms of either abandoning us or not.

I certainly didnt agree with him then. By and large he is just a headcase but he is right now and was right re his comments after the Ireland France hand of Henry match.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Perhaps I should have said "team mates" then. He's still a lunatic though.

Great player. Poor manager. Dreadful pundit.

Great Player. Poor Manager. Getting on to be a Great Pundit

(Lost on Brtish TV though, where nobody bites because they're all too conformist grey)

The startled look of a cat caught under headlights from whatshisname?? - Chiles? - priceless "You can't be going off script, Roy. Not here in Old Trafford...we'll be lynched leaving the stadium!"

Priceless waste of some great potential for chat fire and brimstone.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

Exactly my point. It shows a real lack of contempt for the organisers of the CL and the media and even the fans who wanted to see his views.. It seems to be that sometimes Fergie feels like he and his team are way above their station.

A "lack of contempt" - is that a bad thing?

Sorry youre right was going to say shows contempt than decided to say lack of respect but instead mixed the two up.

Adrian Chiles is no good. He behaves like a fan, or as if he's trying to be mates with the pundits. Maybe that's what ITV want from him, but for me you need some objectivity / impartiality / authority from a sports anchor.

Hmmm, I'm one of those fans who like pundits who are invariably correct and insightful, rather than simply controversial for the sake of publicity.

That said, Keane ought to be an expert in foul play. He did afterall deliberately crock an opponent during his playing days, by his own admission. You'd think he'd know intent to harm when he saw it? Clearly he doesn't. He probably just thinks all footballers think like he used to.

Someone said on Twitter that Roy Keane pontificating about dangerous tackles is like John Terry giving marriage advice.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Somebody doesn't like Man Utd

I dont give a hoot about football. Stopped watching it a long time ago as it is no longer a sport IMO.

I have no allegiances but I do not like Alex Ferguson much Ill admit that. As for United you would expect more from such a high profile team but thats football. Its not just United its fairly wide spread in fairness. However, it does seem like United fans in particular are fairly narrow sighted and fanatical with regards to their team and any criticism towards them.

Just had lunch with a guy who almost choked on his sandwich when I said that the ref was abused by UTD players. He then proceeded to lecture me redfaced on how disgraceful the decision was and how justified the players were in surrounding him. Unbelievable!!

Fair enough. I thought the Irish loved Man Utd?

Anyway, it's not that big an issue. It's not like anyone got stamped on.

GunsGerms wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Because it's contractual, Stag. United are happy enough to accept the money that comes from playing Champions League football, but it's not a gift. He has obligations.

Exactly my point. It shows a real lack of contempt for the organisers of the CL and the media and even the fans who wanted to see his views.. It seems to be that sometimes Fergie feels like he and his team are way above their station.

But that's the point, Guns. Just like Roy. Yeah, nice to have him in the studio...he adds a dark shine of Batman to the proceedings with his tough history. So a nice balance of light and darkness to attract the audience to the chat. But nope..."we don't want to listen to you express your REAL opinions. That's not the deal. The deal is to do a few minutes of cliched chitchat about the game and incidents in it, go with the general flow and don't be controversal. Don't say what you think, because we and our audience won't want to hear it."

The same is true for Ferguson. Both you and I can guess what his REAL opinions would have been had he ever been allowed voice them or wanted to give them. But he's controlled there too. He MUST appear to give his OPINION...and he MUST NOT give an opinion that will bring the game into disrepute.

So what would the fans have been listening to? His genuine views? Nope, something devised by the media and the organisers to keep the masses happy.

As Mourinhio wisely stats.

You are not worthy, I am not worthy to judge any decsion made by Sir Alex.

mystiroakey wrote:As Mourinhio wisely stats.

You are not worthy, I am not worthy to judge any decsion made by Sir Alex.

Mourinho is brilliant. He publicly licks Ferguson's hole but its just to avoid wrestling with a pig. A mistake many managers make with Ferguson. Benitez, Wenger etc. Smart guy and his record v ManU is second to none.

Mourinho makes for great TV no doubt about it.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmmm, I'm one of those fans who like pundits who are invariably correct and insightful, rather than simply controversial for the sake of publicity.

That said, Keane ought to be an expert in foul play. He did afterall deliberately crock and opponent during his playing days, by his own admission. You'd think he'd know intent to harm when he saw it? Clearly he doesn't. He probably just thinks all footballers think like he used to.

If he played the game at the level he played it at...with some legendary loose cannons (not just him) - the glorious Cantona too - the people who dragged Premiership football up to be the massively expensive and spectaclular circus that it is today - then I think he knows a good few things about what's in a player's heart and actions when they engage in 'war' as he put it. I'd say at a guess, more than you and I together.

The panelists on that show ..and thank God I don't watch a lot of it...were just stone wall grey and lifeless...not insightful, not necessarily correct...just guys earning easy money in a nice setting.

And Keane didn't say he was an angel, never claimed to be one, his own words tell of the hard-man exploits clinically enough. He doesn't try to disguise it and he mentioned his own 'reds' on the show. And he knows what's in a player's mind.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Somebody doesn't like Man Utd

I dont give a hoot about football. Stopped watching it a long time ago as it is no longer a sport IMO.

I have no allegiances but I do not like Alex Ferguson much Ill admit that. As for United you would expect more from such a high profile team but thats football. Its not just United its fairly wide spread in fairness. However, it does seem like United fans in particular are fairly narrow sighted and fanatical with regards to their team and any criticism towards them.

Just had lunch with a guy who almost choked on his sandwich when I said that the ref was abused by UTD players. He then proceeded to lecture me redfaced on how disgraceful the decision was and how justified the players were in surrounding him. Unbelievable!!

Fair enough. I thought the Irish loved Man Utd?

Anyway, it's not that big an issue. It's not like anyone got stamped on.

Yes youre right. Its amazing how many Irish people love ManU. Many of them spend their lives moaning about the Brits and have RA tattoos yet can be seen down the boozer with a United top on chanting in a english accent every weekend.

The hipocracy is unbelievable.

PS: I dont have or never will have any RA tattoos.

Mourinio rates and respects Fergusion and the English game..(He may think very differently in his mind. but when it comes to Fergie and the british public he shows his respect!)

Mourinio slags off Italy with its curroption. He slags of Spains league all the time.

He just likes it here

Good on him- I cant wait to see him back..

He's no fool, Mourinho. If he's got an eye on succeeding Ferguson at United, his 'the best team lost' line was exactly the right thing to say.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:He's no fool, Mourinho. If he's got an eye on succeeding Ferguson at United, his 'the best team lost' line was exactly the right thing to say.

Exactly. He is just priming himself for a return to the premiership. Its fairly obvious. Smart guy.

GG you probally dont know much about Mourinhio then if thats your only view..

Offcourse he wants the Man u job..

However he says it how it is as well, Have you ever heard his interviews on forign soil!!

The respect is that he wants the man u job over any others as well..

He pride sthis league over others.. Its where he wants to be. And a main reason for that is because he understands the concerns elsewhere.. He was the only manager in italy to hit out at all the curroption!

As bad as the PL can seem. Its leagues above in honesty

Yep..and we all Really know where Abramovich got all his billions, mystir????................................

Ah don't mind me, I watched two football games this year and both of them involved Man U and Mourinhio's bunch. That'll be my lot now for a few more years.... an avid fan of football, me ...

Football is crazy.. But Mourinhio is an asset. I welcome him with open arms.. He is just too cool!

I am sure you were singing footbals praises when Ireland got in the last comp!

mystiroakey wrote:GG you probally dont know much about Mourinhio then if thats your only view..

Offcourse he wants the Man u job..

However he says it how it is as well, Have you ever heard his interviews on forign soil!!

The respect is that he wants the man u job over any others as well..

He pride sthis league over others.. Its where he wants to be. And a main reason for that is because he understands the concerns elsewhere.. He was the only manager in italy to hit out at all the curroption!

As bad as the PL can seem. Its leagues above in honesty

Mourinho works in Spain now though. Is the Spainish league corrupt? Not sure it is any more or less corrupt than the PL. La liga may have some lingering race issues but so does the PL clearly.

It makes sense that he would want the ManU job. It is probably the most prestigious position in football that he hasnt already occupied.

Lets not pretend the PL doesnt have its own issues. Lets face it the PL has been financed by some fairly dodgy characters Thaksin Shinawatra, Roman Abramovich etc. Both of whom have massive rap sheets of allegations from fraud to money laundering.

I havent pretended anything. To be honest i think i made that quite clear

Just stating the facts and Mourinhios stance on leagues in europe..

By the way concentrate on curroption in the game(fixing etc).. Not the owners of the clubs..

Like these criminal owners are are any different from the stake holders of real madrid or barcelona(banks)These clubs only survive(real and barca) due to getting as many govenment owned bank loans as they want and not having to pay them back- which is also having an effect on the whole of europe- including us british tax payers who are from a a country that is a net contributer to europe!!

mystiroakey wrote:Football is crazy.. But Mourinhio is an asset. I welcome him with open arms.. He is just too cool!

I am sure you were singing footbals praises when Ireland got in the last comp!

Em.............................................. do I have to be honest?

The answer would be 'nope'.

I watched a lot more football in last century..and even then it was only WCs and four or five Premiership games a year (mostly of the Euro variety).
I watch some of the Irish games but genuinely, I can miss them and not care...and I can watch them and have little emotional involvement. It's only a sport that catches me emotionally at the highest level played... nil all slogs don't buy me. Even the game against Man U and Real...it was the red unfortunately that made me at least feel I didn't waste my night. No, not because I wanted Man U to get one - they deserved to win on the efforts they were putting in..but simply because finally the game was alive for me.

SecretFly wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmmm, I'm one of those fans who like pundits who are invariably correct and insightful, rather than simply controversial for the sake of publicity.

That said, Keane ought to be an expert in foul play. He did afterall deliberately crock and opponent during his playing days, by his own admission. You'd think he'd know intent to harm when he saw it? Clearly he doesn't. He probably just thinks all footballers think like he used to.

If he played the game at the level he played it at...with some legendary loose cannons (not just him) - the glorious Cantona too - the people who dragged Premiership football up to be the massively expensive and spectaclular circus that it is today - then I think he knows a good few things about what's in a player's heart and actions when they engage in 'war' as he put it. I'd say at a guess, more than you and I together.

The panelists on that show ..and thank God I don't watch a lot of it...were just stone wall grey and lifeless...not insightful, not necessarily correct...just guys earning easy money in a nice setting.

And Keane didn't say he was an angel, never claimed to be one, his own words tell of the hard-man exploits clinically enough. He doesn't try to disguise it and he mentioned his own 'reds' on the show. And he knows what's in a player's mind.

I hate that line of argument. He played the game and therefore his opinion must carry some weight. Why don't we ask Gazza what he thinks? It is perfectly possible to be a great player and still know very little about the game so it seems, and a player's ability is certainly not commensurate with his ability to analyse a referee's performance and interpret the rules. Keane gave his opinion without actually knowing what the rule says. You may find such a display of Wumful ignorance enjoyable, I see it as nothing to celebrate. There are enough idiots in football, no need for ITV to single them out and give them a microphone.

mystiroakey wrote:I havent pretended anything. To be honest i think i made that quite clear

Just stating the facts and Mourinhios stance on leagues in europe..

By the way concentrate on curroption in the game(fixing etc).. Not the owners of the clubs..

Like these criminal owners are are any different from the stake holders of real madrid or barcelona(banks)These clubs only survive(real and barca) due to getting as many govenment owned bank loans as they want and not having to pay them back- which is also having an effect on the whole of europe- including us british tax payers who are from a a country that is a net contributer to europe!!

Financing a football team with the proceeds of crime (if that is the case, not saying it is) is as bad if not worse than match fixing IMO as there is potentially greater sums involved. How could I forget about Mohamed Al-Fayed. It seems the PL is a haven for extremely high net worth individuals who are mysteriously in exile from the country from where they made their wealth.

Guns- you are clearly looking at this from an outside of football perspective..

And not applying other situations or sports in the same light.

You cant have a worse crime against the fans(the people that matter) of the sport than conning them with fixed games!!

mystiroakey wrote:
Guns- you are clearly looking at this from an outside of football perspective..

And not applying other situations or sports in the same light.

You cant have a worse crime against the fans(the people that matter) of the sport than conning them with fixed games!!

Between you and I, I am a anti money laundering compliance officer for a multi national banking coorporation. Thats the view I'm taking I spose.

Corruption is corruption whether it affects the fans or not. I'd like to think that some fans would be equally disgusted by the proceeds of criminal activities boosting their teams finances as much as match fixing may have a negative effect on them. Perhaps not but cest la vie.

Guns, as i pointed out what is criminal behaviour and why attach it to football.

how and why is it different from al fayerd buying harrods or buying fulham!

You think owners from corportaions from around the globe are saints!!

you think tesco are any better for conning us with horse meat.(even though it came down a chain of course)

you think primark are any better for using child labour

you think non uk firms are any better!

come on dude!

there are all as bad as each other.

I was concentrating on the scandals within the game.. You wanna bring ownership in to things and judge football owners- judge the worlds businesses and go and live on a retreat with hippies growing mung beanz

mystiroakey wrote:Guns, as i pointed out what is criminal behaviour and why attach it to football.

how and why is it different from al fayerd buying harrods or buying fulham!

You think owners from corportaions from around the globe are saints!!

you think tesco are any better for conning us with horse meat.(even though it came down a chain of course)

you think primark are any better for using child labour

you think non uk firms are any better!

come on dude!

there are all as bad as each other.

I was concentrating on the scandals within the game.. You wanna bring ownership in to things and judge football owners- judge the worlds businesses and go and live on a retreat with hippies growing mung beanz

I do actually believe that some very wealthy individuals or indeed corporations arent at all corrupt. The three guys I have mentioned have a ridiculous amount of allegations to their name.

Whereas someone like Alan Sugar a former owner of Spurs does not really.

Offcourse not all.

But many.

You seem to be attaching a very wide problem to have a pop at PL football clubs.

Its not really on tbh.

We live in a free market ecconomy. We cant stop them buying the clubs- and we shouldnt IMO.

My major concerns are different. Because otherwise I would feel like a hypocrite

(by the way I am not saying it isnt a concern - it is)

These forign owners have come from countries that have allowed them to be curropt and we cant really try them for things they have got away with in there own countries!)

As long as we reatin our messures and constraignts on what they do here then we have to accept it!