england

Some stats for you.
England have the 5th worse line out in this years 6 nations and
Have scored 5 tries 1 less than Wales and Scotland who both have 6
So is farrels kicking the reason they are where that are

Wales and Scotland have both played Italy already. England haven't. Not a fair comparison. Also, I don't have the exact stats to hand, but I believe that Farrell's kick % is actually lower than Laidlaw and Halfpenny.

We havnt played Wales yet either. Didn't Ireland put one or two past them?

Tries scored mean relatively little, as England have a fe key home games this year they were always going to be contenders, and Italy at Twickers up next will almost certainly have them on temrs or above Wales and Scotland.

Farell's kicking has been excellent though, and England don't look particularly strong going forward, their game is based around a solid and agressive defence and errors from the opposition.

The lineout however is a bit of a shock, I mean Launchbury is very classy but young and inexperienced at this level but the amount of plaudits Parling is getting for his lineout work is massive (although I remain to be convinced)

What lineout stats are you looking at though? Won on own ball, won on opposing ball, misthrows, steals etc??

The bad lineout stats seem to come around from the occasional Youngs brainfarts.There has been a communication breakdown at key moments which has ended with timings all wrong and a total mess. It only takes a couple of those a match to skew the stats

I think/hope it can be fixed. Youngs does bring a lot else to the game

How can you compare the fact Wales and Scotland have played Italy the reason as Scotland have 6 tries scored against them and Ireland 3, Italy 8, France have 4, England 3 and wales 3 against them so England have played Scotland who have only left two less than Italy and Italy have played 3 tough games France Even though their last they haven't been battered, Scotland who are joint try scores and Wales who are joint try scores so its fair to compare England to Wales and Scotland.

Yes Ireland scored threw against Wales they are joint strongest defence in the league

I was looking at over all line out stats

Overall lineout stats?

So lineouts won on own ball, and lineouts lost on own ball?

Where did you get them from?

The point regarding Italy is that England play them at Twickers where Italy always seem to struggle, Italy are and have been for long periods the worst defencive team around, and are renowned for leeking tries, thats why I was so angry at Wales pathetic attempts to put points on Italy!!

Howley decided to kill the game and despite having much to lose Hook decided the win was enough, England will certainly not do that and if leading by 8 on the 80th minute will certainly look for that extra score!!

welshboii15 wrote:
England have the 5th worse line out in this years 6 nations and

That would be 2nd best then?

welshboii15 wrote:How can you compare the fact Wales and Scotland have played Italy the reason as Scotland have 6 tries scored against them and Ireland 3, Italy 8, France have 4, England 3 and wales 3 against them so England have played Scotland who have only left two less than Italy and Italy have played 3 tough games France Even though their last they haven't been battered, Scotland who are joint try scores and Wales who are joint try scores so its fair to compare England to Wales and Scotland.

That's brilliant gibberish! Did you type it all in one go or have to stop for a breather?

..... ahhhh the heady scent of the welsh circle jerk .....

Wales had the worse line out stats when winning the Grand Slam in 2012, it could be a good omen for England as opposed to a problem

Here's my current favourite English stat:

England played 3 won 3

A very poor WUM indeed

The line out stats came off sky sports news parlings interview so yea that's where it came from so go shoot your own player fact, so yea carry on being couch potatoes but yea stick the second Poopie line out with the fact your team only has farrel to score points well done boring as

Some threads really come back to bite people. How about we ignore this one for now and revisit it on Sunday evening?

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Here's my current favourite English stat:

England played 3 won 3

yep, that's the most important one.

I am just waiting for Welshboi to declare 'you guys are boring' before stomping back off to his cave

Welshboi... Have you thought about a career in journalism? I love your writing style, it's very moreish.

Stephen Jones needs to watch out...

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Here's my current favourite English stat:

England played 3 won 3

Jeez, where did you find that statistic? Could be deceptive.......

200 penalty tries and counting...

On a serious note, if those lineout stats are accurate should we be worried? From a Lions perspective Parling and Launchbury seem to be the two front-runners for those test jerseys.

Morg,
I am more inclined to think its the Hooker rather than the locks. Youngs is still fairly new to the position and Hartley had a bad day at the office last match. I think those locks are OK.

It could well be that. I was also thinking that Youngs is good enough to tour. I don't see our hookers being that great ATM. Rory Best is...the best, but not that good.

I thought hibbard was being touted as being in the world's top three.

Youngs seems a bit hit and miss in the lineout - he has good days and some real stinker moments. Hopefully that side will improve because hes fantastic in the loose

sickofwendy wrote:I thought hibbard was being touted as being in the world's top three.

source?

Problem with Youngs is that he'll be fine most of the game, but the lineouts that he'll suddenly fall to peices at are more often then not 5m's from our line or the oppositions!

I have thought that our set piece has looked weaker in general since Rowntree got promoted to forwards coach rather than specialist coach.

The lineout hasn't been secure as previously but as mentioned, a lot of the bad stats have come from Youngs losing the plot. Against Ireland he messed up 3 on the bounce where he dummied throwed, step onto the pitch and then threw it at the Irish lifter.

Depending on the weather i can see england putting between 4-6 tries on Italy. We scored 4 against Scotland and could have had more, so i expect us to top the try scoring charts come sunday evening.

oh and welshboii15, you're really bad at this

as bad as welshboii15 is, I don't understand the responses that attack the welsh in general, I think we need to change the ethos from...

Attack the post not the poster,

to

Attack the poster not the nation

Morgannwg wrote:It could well be that. I was also thinking that Youngs is good enough to tour. I don't see our hookers being that great ATM. Rory Best is...the best, but not that good.

Youngs is an interesting dilemma. He does a lot of things very well. As a former centre, he is a good runner and a good passer. He also has a pretty good motor. Someone else already said is line-out throws are hit and miss. and I agree. Clearly, we wouldn't have him as Lions number one hooker, but he might tour. I think Hartley is a more rounded hooker, but is still behind Best. Hartley did very well as England captain in the third test v. Springboks last summer. With that in mind, I would have him as Lions backup hooker instead of Youngs, but the margin gets closer all the time. I agree it is somewhat surprising we do not have one really good hooker between our four nations.

"we do not have one really good hooker between our four nations." ??

Strange statement, Rory Best, Hibbard, Owens , Youngs and Hartley IMO are all good enough for the Lions and a match for the Aus hookers

I disagree Ruby, Best, Hibbard, Youngs and Hartley are all looking good in a poor bunch at present.

I think the real quality is with Ford and Owens, and I'd take them 2 with Best.

Correction
29 December 2012
Hibbard hailed as best in Europe
Source espn

thebluesmancometh wrote:I disagree Ruby, Best, Hibbard, Youngs and Hartley are all looking good in a poor bunch at present.

I think the real quality is with Ford and Owens, and I'd take them 2 with Best.

Ford's been awful for a while IMO.

welshboii15 wrote: the fact your team only has Halfpenny to score points well done boring as

Fixed that for you

welshboii15 wrote:Some stats for you.
England have the 5th worse line out in this years 6 nations and
Have scored 5 tries 1 less than Wales and Scotland who both have 6
So is farrels kicking the reason they are where that are

Is any of this relevant? Surely all that matters is how many points (and tries, if you like) we have after next week?

We'll know the pecking order better after tomorrow and, more so, after next weekend.

I guess some moral victories are still up for grabs though.

Wales will not be a problem for England as they don't bother to challenge, I don't think they have taken a single line out against the throw. Wales are not bad at turning over ball but D Biggar keeps kicking the dam thing away grrrrrrrrrrr. This 6N we should put a net across the halfway line, so far the worst 6N ever for entertainment.

Agree. From an opening wakened that promised a lot. It's been pretty stale since. Some shocking weather and conditions haven't helped tho...

There have been some grim days but have people forgotten the ELV's so quickly?

There were many dire games under those rules

Breadvan wrote:Agree. From an opening wakened that promised a lot. It's been pretty stale since. Some shocking weather and conditions haven't helped tho...

I'm in this camp myself. I don't think it complete coincidence that on a fair weather weekend we saw high try, expansive running Rugby, whereas every time the weather has been absolutely appalling we've seen negative tactics (to put it mildly!).

With such great weather at the beginning of this week in the UK, I was hoping for more expansive games. Not to be unfortunately as the heaven's opened....

Englands lineout has been poor or average since Borthwick retired, this is nothing new.

We are also struggling to find a hooker who can throw straight, which ios perhaps the biggest problem there.

It shouldnt be as bad as it is given the backrow options england have both on their own and when disrupting the opposition. Croft coming back in makes england even stronger in that regard, arguably the best lineout poacher in the world game.

PSW

And who's going to miss out? Wood is playing extremely well, and IMHO gonna be a bolter for the lions. Surely you wouldn't drop your captain???

Maybe moving Wood to 8 again? I can't see Croft getting back in.

Probably the most experienced bolter there's ever been! Wood has been around for quite a while and was one of our best players in the 2011 6N win.

I'd say Hartley's throwing is fine. Against France the problems seemed to be more that they were doing a good job of marking our jumpers.

The bad lineout stats seem to come around from the occasional Youngs brainfarts

If only. Hartley was worse against France. Unless we throw to Parling we seem to lose out. Maybe for the best that Croft is back.

Regarding the lineout I think the problem is as much with the jumpers as the hookers, the timing hasn't been sharp enough for some time with any of the hookers. Youngs occasionally has the additional problem of not delivering them straight enough.