Can England stop Wales

No disrespect to Italy who are a capable side but i just don't see them winning today. So that leaves Wales in Cardiff. After yesterday's dismal game did we see any evidence from Wales that they can stop the English chariot and preevnt a deserved Slam. Wales will of course raise their game as they always do, will be at home and will have a probably unachievable chance of winning on PD but is that enough. Warburton did go from zero tohero in one hlaf of rugby with a spectacular 2nd half perf at the breakdown and the welsh setpiece, defence and kicking game was sound. Our ability to proffer soft pens at key moments was not just the result of the awful reffing of Joubert. I think Wales have a sniff but England's inexorable rise has been because they are pplaying intelligent high tempo rugby as a team and I jst can't see them choking again

Its a big ask, England are the side with confidence at the moment, if they put a score on Italy they'll also know the championships in the bag and might go all out and play for the Grand slam "icing on the cake". In some ways I really want Italy to win this game today not to be anti English, but just to make the final game that much more interesting.

Wales probably know that they cannot win this 6 Nations, but they can upset the apple cart and deny England a Triple Crown and Grand slam, so its going to come down to which side wants it more.

Looking forward to the scrum battle, I'm not sure at the moment who has the better pack and superiority at the break down. Both sides would have to keep their discipline in check as well due to the prolific goal kicking from both Farrell(if he plays) and Halfpenny.

On a side note Wales have actually had a good tournament, if someone said they could potentially finish 2nd after their summer and autumn series white wash I would have laughed, but they've somehow managed it, not the best of games, but winning away in Italy, France and Scotland is not an easy thing to do.

Amazing really but for a half of rubbish v Ireland they could be looking to defend their own Slam with a decider against England, what a game that would have been!

"inexorable"

Strong word that!

Yep, pity it isn't a slam vs slam decider

Wales defence has been excellent, if they can stay disiplined then they can beat England - they need to work on that this week.

I can't wait for the first scrum next week - that should be fasinating if the ref doesn't ruin it, as Wales demolished Italy and Scotland when given a fair chance

Wales have an excellent defence & a straight answer would be yes they could stop England.
I think the Welsh scrum maybe slightly stronger but in all other aspects of the game I think England have the edge. In particular I think the font 5 of England are more dynamic & mobile than the Welsh front five.

I hope England play with ambition & finish off the championship with a flourish. I also hope the roof is closed & the pitch (please!) doesn't cut up too much.


Ps better put a rider to this and make sure we put in a performance against Itlay this afternoon!

Don't forget the Steve Walsh factor.............

doctor_grey wrote:Don't forget the Steve Walsh factor.............

oh god no seriously, though he is much improved but i would have preferred Nigel Owens

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Wales have an excellent defence & a straight answer would be yes they could stop England.
I think the Welsh scrum maybe slightly stronger but in all other aspects of the game I think England have the edge. In particular I think the font 5 of England are more dynamic & mobile than the Welsh front five.

England probably have more dynamic locks - but Wales have more experience in AWJ and I.Evans.

It's pretty difficult to separate the front row though. Adam Jones had one of his best games in the loose against Scotland, making 10 tackles, and Gethin was like his old self against Italy - that will certainly provide a lot around the park, with Paul James an excellent LHP replacement. Tom Young is more mobile than Hibbard, although Hibbard has more to offer than he has shown so far - and Ken Owens has been an excellent impact player so far, while I don't rate Hartley at all this tournement.

With the Irish scrum losing 4/6 scrums yesterday, and Scotland getting smashed by the Welsh pack - I think this will be the showdown for the Lions starting shirts for the props (Healy the only other in with a shot)

100%beefy wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Don't forget the Steve Walsh factor.............

oh god no seriously, though he is much improved but i would have preferred Nigel Owens

Having had Joubert yesterday, I will settle for a blind Steve Walsh next week.

Considering the other options included Joubert, Clancy and Rolland - I will happily take Walsh

I spent the first 40 minutes slating Warbs and then watcheda master class in being a 7...much as I love RJ its time for him to slot back on the bench and play Tips and Warbs...against a mobile English pack they will be needed for there ability to confound the breakdown and I really think Robshaw might, for once, get found out by Wrbs if he plays liek he did yesterday

wales606 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Wales have an excellent defence & a straight answer would be yes they could stop England.
I think the Welsh scrum maybe slightly stronger but in all other aspects of the game I think England have the edge. In particular I think the font 5 of England are more dynamic & mobile than the Welsh front five.

England probably have more dynamic locks - but Wales have more experience in AWJ and I.Evans.

It's pretty difficult to separate the front row though. Adam Jones had one of his best games in the loose against Scotland, making 10 tackles, and Gethin was like his old self against Italy - that will certainly provide a lot around the park, with Paul James an excellent LHP replacement. Tom Young is more mobile than Hibbard, although Hibbard has more to offer than he has shown so far - and Ken Owens has been an excellent impact player so far, while I don't rate Hartley at all this tournement.

With the Irish scrum losing 4/6 scrums yesterday, and Scotland getting smashed by the Welsh pack - I think this will be the showdown for the Lions starting shirts for the props (Healy the only other in with a shot)

Depends on the England FR. Our 1st choice scrummaging trio of Corbs/Hartley/Cole would edge it IMO. A little forced/tactical tinkering and we have Marler/Youngs/Cole - not so hot in the scrum And if Wilson has to come in for an injured/knackered Cole - then we are struggling a bit.

100%beefy wrote:I spent the first 40 minutes slating Warbs and then watcheda master class in being a 7...much as I love RJ its time for him to slot back on the bench and play Tips and Warbs...against a mobile English pack they will be needed for there ability to confound the breakdown and I really think Robshaw might, for once, get found out by Wrbs if he plays liek he did yesterday

I actually agree, as much as I like to see Ryan somewhere on the field it will be difficult to include him next week - especially carrying a knock.

Warburton has to start next week, Tips is a good impact sub - but I would like to see what happens with both starting.

Tips/Warbs could really do a number on the English breakdown if they get a chance.

Hopefully Gethin will be back to help too.


I miss Huw Bennett, just watched some of the 08 games and he was all over the breakdown - Hibbard and Owens may offer good carrying, but we have missed Bennett's clearing out since the WC.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

wales606 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Wales have an excellent defence & a straight answer would be yes they could stop England.
I think the Welsh scrum maybe slightly stronger but in all other aspects of the game I think England have the edge. In particular I think the font 5 of England are more dynamic & mobile than the Welsh front five.

England probably have more dynamic locks - but Wales have more experience in AWJ and I.Evans.

It's pretty difficult to separate the front row though. Adam Jones had one of his best games in the loose against Scotland, making 10 tackles, and Gethin was like his old self against Italy - that will certainly provide a lot around the park, with Paul James an excellent LHP replacement. Tom Young is more mobile than Hibbard, although Hibbard has more to offer than he has shown so far - and Ken Owens has been an excellent impact player so far, while I don't rate Hartley at all this tournement.

With the Irish scrum losing 4/6 scrums yesterday, and Scotland getting smashed by the Welsh pack - I think this will be the showdown for the Lions starting shirts for the props (Healy the only other in with a shot)

Depends on the England FR. Our 1st choice scrummaging trio of Corbs/Hartley/Cole would edge it IMO. A little forced/tactical tinkering and we have Marler/Youngs/Cole - not so hot in the scrum And if Wilson has to come in for an injured/knackered Cole - then we are struggling a bit.

I would be delighted to see Hartley start.

I don't think any English front row will edge the Welsh scrum at the moment, Corbs won't get much from Adam - Cole attacking Gethin might work, but not if it is the same Gethin who played against Italy and took apart Cole's clubmate.

I can't wait, pity I am going to have to watch the game on iPlayer since I am busy next weekend :/

I think Tips and Warns offer the chance to break england's pattern earlier on than we would usually in th elast 3rd. If we can do that then some high tempo offload and we could start beating eng at their own game. I also like the effect Tips had on warbs, seemed to come alive when he cam eon and as someone on the match thread mentioned, tips was cutting carrier low a la Lydiate allowing classic jackal opportunities for warbs

wales606 wrote:Yep, pity it isn't a slam vs slam decider

Wales defence has been excellent, if they can stay disiplined then they can beat England - they need to work on that this week.

I can't wait for the first scrum next week - that should be fasinating if the ref doesn't ruin it, as Wales demolished Italy and Scotland when given a fair chance

I don't think they demolished Italy so much as was said. Yes Wales went forwards a few times, but it was generally an ugly mess when they did. It was only on Italy's put in that we saw any clean ball for the no.8 / sh, albeit not going forwards. Wales would have been better off using the advantage they had to get steady ball inching forwards, rather than going for the spectacular demolition at the expense of quality ball for their own 8. Oh, and Jenkins wasn't scrummaging straight for half of that game.

That said they are good enough that they are bound to disrupt England's scrum a few times. But I expect it to go both ways, and generally be a bit of a pile-up.

As much as I'd like to get excited about 2 immensely powerfull scrums we won't get to see a competition really, maybe the odd hit goes one teams way but we won't get to see who has the best scrum at all, it'll be who gets the refs call most!!!

Interesting game, but I for one am not looking beyond Italy, and if England do they may just come a cropper, I doubt they will but theres always a chance.

I would have prefered to see a slam v slam decider or even a decider while both on 6 points (especially as England will prob have a huge points differene)

No

These England v Wales games are going to be taking on more and more significance as 2015 approaches

We are almost half the way to the next WC already!

James has to start for me as much as Jenkins has improved as the tournaments gone on I really think Cole will do a number on him.

I agree, James is starting to make 1 his own and we must have a solid set piece so Evans and AWJ will start. Jenks as a sub is pretty awesome.

James
Hibberd
Jones
AWJ
Evans
Tips
Warbs
Faletau
Philips
Biggar
North
Jamie
JD2
Cuthbert
Half

Its a great side and bearing in mind the injury rate at the start fo the tourney we have done very well. Philipps has been immense.

With a bench including Gethin, Coombs, Hook Ryan etc we have a very good chance

As a neutral I am really looking forward to this game.I can't see anything else but an English win though. For me England are head and shoulders above everyone else this year, and deserve the GS

Now that I have said that I bet Italy wins.

Of course Wales can stop England. I would go as far to say Wales should be favourites to win next week.

LondonTiger wrote:Of course Wales can stop England. I would go as far to say Wales should be favourites to win next week.

Wales will miss Ryan next week for his power, work rate, line out and captaincy, I feel having Warburton and Tipuric in the back row we will lose out in the scrum, line out and driving mauls, look what happened when R Jones was dow, Scotland drove almost to our line (with 7 forwards), England will be more powerfull. Remember the Ireland game for those who have short memories we were stuffed in the back row, who did not play?

Having Mitchell, Gethin and Ryan fit will be crucial - Subs win games these days, just a pity we don't have BD or Charteris to bring off the bench, as Coombes didn't get on yesterday

It's a tough one to call and I'll reserve judgement until later when I know what the injury situation is after today. Wales is improving all the time but there are still weaknesses just as there are with England. Neither side is showing much penetration in the backs but that can change in an instant. Forward battle is going to be v interesting.

100%beefy wrote:Amazing really but for a half of rubbish v Ireland they could be looking to defend their own Slam with a decider against England, what a game that would have been!

Rugby is full of what-ifs. If France had played their A-game from the start (instead of waiting for England), and Sergio Parisse hadn't been banned (or resting for England), Wales could have gone into the Scotland game looking for their first win in can't count how many matches.

Alex_Germany wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Amazing really but for a half of rubbish v Ireland they could be looking to defend their own Slam with a decider against England, what a game that would have been!

Rugby is full of what-ifs. If France had played their A-game from the start (instead of waiting for England), and Sergio Parisse hadn't been banned (or resting for England), Wales could have gone into the Scotland game looking for their first win in can't count how many matches.

Wondered how long it would take before the usual barbs woudl come out!

Yes and I think they will. I have a fiver on it with my English boss....

100%beefy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Of course Wales can stop England. I would go as far to say Wales should be favourites to win next week.

I assume my comment is not so amusing now

We've won our last two games and 6 of the last 10 against England generally so yes, there's no doubt we can. Watching them play as we speak only reinforces my opinion on that.

Saying that we MUST make England pay for defensive errors or we'll be looking back over our shoulders at another 'missed opportunity'. By the sound of it the English backs can't defend to save their mothers' lives. Provided SL sticks with players like Ashton, Brown and Goode and provided they don't improve drastically in the next week, we have the physicality to turn the screw in that department. That of course presupposes a drastic improvement of our own but with a shaky back three I can see them trying to shut that area down and playing it through the forwards/kicking game.

Could easily find ourselves watching two sets of forwards slugging away for short yards all afternoon, looking at the way we've tried using ours all tournament.

Italy exposed England's weaknesses by playing intelligent, positive rugby, running at space and avoiding as many collisions as possible.

Wales will try and take the English juggernauts on, get battered, and lose by 9.

Not being negative or nothing.

In recent games Wales have proven themselves more physical than England. People seem to speak about the size of England but if you watch the recent head to heads then Wales have basically got the better of them all over the field.

Wales biggest problem in the last 2 games (which Wales have won) is that we get on top of England but never score enough points to win and kill the game off. It's a blody hard slog from the first minute to the last.

If I'm being honest people are getting far too excited about England based off the game against New Zealand. I don't think England have done any more or less than Wales this 6 nations, they both look solid teams who are hard to beat but have plenty of chinks in their armor.

It will be a very tight game, but I think Wales will win based on home advantage and the Cardiff crowd.

Italy exposed England's weaknesses by playing intelligent, positive rugby, running at space and avoiding as many collisions as possible.

Wales will try and take the English juggernauts on, get battered, and lose by 9.

Not being negative or nothing.

I wouldn't be so sure myself. Not saying you're wrong but sometimes past experience lulls people into a false sense of security. Wales have pulled ridiculous performances out of their arses against England when they've had no right to. I'd be surprised and very disappointed if the entire camp aren't up for Super Saturday. It's the old enemy and a chance for the Welsh players and coaching staff to finish this year's tournament with real credibility after a shocking autumn and first half vs Ireland. England have been here before, on the brink of a slam while not looking that much better than everyone else. Ireland stopped them then and we can do it this year!

Stay positive, stay confident, stay Welsh

The bigger question is can England stop Wales?

Disipline will win this game

England have scored 1 try in 3 games, Wales havent conceeded in 3 and a half.

If Wales keep their disipline and expose some of the problems in the English defence they will win.

Wales conceded 12 penalties against Scotland - but that was the first time they have gone into double figures this championship apparently.

That is reassuring

cakeordeath wrote: For me England are head and shoulders above everyone else this year, and deserve the GS

Can I take back what I said.

cakeordeath wrote:

cakeordeath wrote: For me England are half an inch above Italy this year,

Can I take back what I said.

Casartelli wrote:Italy exposed England's weaknesses by playing intelligent, positive rugby, running at space and avoiding as many collisions as possible.

Wales will try and take the English juggernauts on, get battered, and lose by 9.

Not being negative or nothing.

Agree with you, dont think we have the players to do any different. Obviously im gonna put that thought out my mind and just get my hopes up for saturday anyway.

No Wales will defend as they have all tourney and keep Eng out and that is what happened today, as England's attack failed they lost shape and became even more tempo obssessed, errors followed and then they started to chase their own tail.

wales606 wrote:These England v Wales games are going to be taking on more and more significance as 2015 approaches

We are almost half the way to the next WC already!

This is a real great point. Just a bit of added extra sauce for the goose!
But Wales-England never really need any extra kick to get going. The games, the supporters, the players are all we need to to take the emotion and excitement meters off scale.