Ferris off to Japan!

First topic message reminder :

Didn't see this one coming!

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/japan-bound-ferris-set-to-leave-ulster-1.1324280

Kingshu wrote:Sin e Heaslip is two years older, and is renowned for being indestructable, (less injuries than most players in his position).

There is only a year and a bit in the difference. Heaslip was 29 in Dec. Ferris will be 28 in Aug.
Heaslip has nearly double the games played that Ferris has for their respective provinces.
I also included Denis Leamy's data who had to because of injury - and he is still way better than Ferris ever was.

I agree with geoff
Missing large chunks of the season for the Province is not a criteria either.

"Since he won't be available to Munster for large chunks of the season, its only right that Munster get compensated for him"[/quote]

At a coaching conference recently, Rob Penney said that the main focus was to develop and coach players to be international players for Ireland. A big incentive to the provincial coaches to do that is players being paid directly by the IRFU so that they can get more raw material in.

its not likily one of Bowe or Gilroy will be released, just because they come from the same province. The IRFU will only release players if they don't need them, not because a province needs them.

Both won't play - so one will go back for game time to the province anyway (bear in mind that there is a fair bit of competition for the back 3 when all are fit - Zebo, Luke Fitz, Earls, McFadden - all of those would be better bench options than Gilroy as they play multiple positions.

Also Ulster are likily to be missing Ferris and Henry, should Henry not have a central contract on the same principle? Connacht with McCarthy?

Henry is 28 - has 6 caps (3 starts). Mike McCarthy is 31 with 9 caps (6 starts). POM is 23, has 13 caps & 9 starts.

Seems to be far more demands on POM's time internationally (Henry was back playing against Zebre during the 6Ns. POM wasn't released by Ireland to play for Munster).

I can't work out POM's central contract,
If Ferris has one for 6 heaslip one for 8 and SoB's would then be for 7

Going forward, Ferris doesn't as yet have a central contract for 6. POM has just got one for next season. He is also the bench option to cover the backrow and is also a lineout option.

and one as back up, surly the IRFU should have waited to see who the back up would be, POM, Henry or Henderson
I think they decided on POM a bit quickly as there is stiff competation for his place.
If leadership is key Henry has captained Ulster numerous times, and is one of the leaders,

They have decided that it is POM probably because a) he is a lineout option and b) he can cover every position in the backrow and c) is only 23.

I think that it was more likiley that the IRFU saw it as, if that by not awarding it to POM then Munster would lose out on a central contract and hence would mean their funding would be reduced?

They could have put Zebo on a central contract instead, and they didn't. (He has just signed a 3-year with Munster having turned down Toulouse).

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

At the moment, Munster's central contracts for next year are: DOC, D. Ryan, POM, Earls (more than likely POC will sign one as his is up this year and Conor Murray more than likely will get one) which would equal 6 for next year.

Leinsters so far for next year are: Healy, Ross, Heislip, D'Arcy, Kearney (and probably BOD if he wants one next year). SOB doesn't have a central contract because he apparently didn't want one.

Ulster contracts next year are: Best, Bowe & Ferris possibly - can't think of anyone else.

Ulster have a bit of ground to make up on the central contracts front. Better get busy producing players the IRFU want for the national team and stop bringing in all these saffers!

As an Ulster fan I hope he stays, if I was a friend or family, I'd tell him to go to Japan.

He'd be well paid, and be left with a body that may still actually work when he retires, few years of less intensive rugby on a good salary, is the better option in the long term

The Great Aukster wrote:
It is no coincidence that Heaslip's effectiveness takes a dip when Ferris isn't in the backrow beside him. Ireland simply don't have a player who can free-up Heaslip the way 1F can, but it has now dawned on them that even Ferris can't put in that sacrifice any longer.

I'd give this lad a bit of credit as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiH-1oof_wQ

Sin é wrote:

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

At the moment, Munster's central contracts for next year are: DOC, D. Ryan, POM, Earls (more than likely POC will sign one as his is up this year and Conor Murray more than likely will get one) which would equal 6 for next year.

Leinsters so far for next year are: Healy, Ross, Heislip, D'Arcy, Kearney (and probably BOD if he wants one next year). SOB doesn't have a central contract because he apparently didn't want one.

Ulster contracts next year are: Best, Bowe & Ferris possibly - can't think of anyone else.

Ulster have a bit of ground to make up on the central contracts front. Better get busy producing players the IRFU want for the national team and stop bringing in all these saffers!

Think RoG still has one, that will go to PJ, Marshall should get one (D'arcys when its up) think geoff said Gilroy is getting one, is that producing enough players the IRFU want for you?

I don't think ROG is getting one for next season. When is Jackson's provincial contract up? The IRFU won't upgrade his contract until they have to ... and Madigan likely to catch up with him next season in the pecking order (not to mention JJ* hunting in the long grass at the moment).

D'Arcy has one more year on his contract.

Gilroy signed a 3 year Provincial contract last November - with ulster until 2016.
http://www.u.tv/sport/Gilroy-signs-Ulster-contract-extension/af9f1203-0049-4d03-a76d-c0d5ff91af92

*JJ was the starting outhalf yesterday for the As. It was commented on by those at the match that he never stops talking and telling everyone where they should be and what they should be doing. A real general on the pitch.

I'll see your JJ with a PJ and raise you a Stuart Olding!

Kingshu wrote:I'll see your JJ with a PJ and raise you a Stuart Olding!

Who is Ulster going to drop to give Olding a go? Marshall or PJ?

There are a min of 28 games in a season, thats plenty for a squad and a young player to get games,

Think Ulster have used over 40 players this year so far.

We dont need to drop anyone Olding will get plenty of game time - he could easily be number two 10 and number two 12.
I suspect he will get more game time than JJ, unless Munster change their selection policy.
Not bad for a 19 year old

Court has a central contract for next year
Marshall and Jackson will definitely get one very soon

The above actually made m think re the Ulster squad next year with respect to the backs

11 players 22 or under all Ulster born and bred
4 players 23 to 29 all Ulster born and bred (Bowe, Cave,Marshall, Trimble)
1 old man Ulster born and breed (Wallace)
I project who becomes eligible in 2014 - Payne
1 foreigner - Pienaer

That is pretty impressive

geoff998rugby wrote:The above actually made m think re the Ulster squad next year with respect to the backs

11 players 22 or under all Ulster born and bred
4 players 23 to 29 all Ulster born and bred (Bowe, Cave,Marshall, Trimble)
1 old man Ulster born and breed (Wallace)
I project who becomes eligible in 2014 - Payne
1 foreigner - Pienaer

That is pretty impressive

Wont be long until we have an all Ulster backline for Ireland with Paul Marshall finally getting a foot in the door

marty2086 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The above actually made m think re the Ulster squad next year with respect to the backs

11 players 22 or under all Ulster born and bred
4 players 23 to 29 all Ulster born and bred (Bowe, Cave,Marshall, Trimble)
1 old man Ulster born and breed (Wallace)
I project who becomes eligible in 2014 - Payne
1 foreigner - Pienaer

That is pretty impressive

Wont be long until we have an all Ulster backline for Ireland with Paul Marshall finally getting a foot in the door

I really like Paul Marshall as a bench player. I think its a role he excels in for Ulster and never looks as sharp when he starts IMO. Hope to see him used the same way on Saturday.

Kingshu wrote:There are a min of 28 games in a season, thats plenty for a squad and a young player to get games,

Think Ulster have used over 40 players this year so far.

Only one would be in line for a central contract though (see how its working out for Madigan at Leinster).

That 40 would be the squad then! Most clubs would give all their players a game (unless they are injured!)

Sin é wrote:
There is only a year and a bit in the difference. Heaslip was 29 in Dec. Ferris will be 28 in Aug.
Heaslip has nearly double the games played that Ferris has for their respective provinces.
I also included Denis Leamy's data who had to because of injury - and he is still way better than Ferris ever was.

Sorry, but did you just say that Leamy was "way better than Ferris ever was" or have I misinterpreted something...?

Stag Marshalls great against a tiring team, hes so lively and its hard late in a game to keep up with him

I think he still needs to learn to pick his moments when he starts just but being exposed to the top teams will help him and with Reddans injury he'll probably get a few games this summer

geoff998rugby wrote:We dont need to drop anyone Olding will get plenty of game time - he could easily be number two 10 and number two 12.
I suspect he will get more game time than JJ, unless Munster change their selection policy.
Not bad for a 19 year old

Court has a central contract for next year
Marshall and Jackson will definitely get one very soon

In other words - a bench option who won't get to start any big games.

By the way, Olding is 20 (as is JJ who will be 21 in July).

Why do you think Marshall & Jackson will get a central contract? Gilroy & Zebo didn't and Toulouse were after Zebo.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Sin é wrote:
There is only a year and a bit in the difference. Heaslip was 29 in Dec. Ferris will be 28 in Aug.
Heaslip has nearly double the games played that Ferris has for their respective provinces.
I also included Denis Leamy's data who had to because of injury - and he is still way better than Ferris ever was.

Sorry, but did you just say that Leamy was "way better than Ferris ever was" or have I misinterpreted something...?

Way better in that he had played a lot more games for both province & Ireland by the same age.

Denis Leamy: Ireland 57 caps. Munster 145 caps.
Fez: 36 Ireland caps. 85 caps for Ulster.

Sin é wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Sin é wrote:
There is only a year and a bit in the difference. Heaslip was 29 in Dec. Ferris will be 28 in Aug.
Heaslip has nearly double the games played that Ferris has for their respective provinces.
I also included Denis Leamy's data who had to because of injury - and he is still way better than Ferris ever was.

Sorry, but did you just say that Leamy was "way better than Ferris ever was" or have I misinterpreted something...?

Way better in that he had played a lot more games for both province & Ireland by the same age.

Denis Leamy: Ireland 57 caps. Munster 145 caps.


Fez: 36 Ireland caps. 85 caps for Ulster.

Oh Sin é you poor boy you really think caps equal greatness?

Ferris always started ahead of Leamy when both were available, Im thinking particulary the 2009 Grand Slam. The problem is Ferris isnt always available

marty2086 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Sin é wrote:
There is only a year and a bit in the difference. Heaslip was 29 in Dec. Ferris will be 28 in Aug.
Heaslip has nearly double the games played that Ferris has for their respective provinces.
I also included Denis Leamy's data who had to because of injury - and he is still way better than Ferris ever was.

Sorry, but did you just say that Leamy was "way better than Ferris ever was" or have I misinterpreted something...?

Way better in that he had played a lot more games for both province & Ireland by the same age.

Denis Leamy: Ireland 57 caps. Munster 145 caps.


Fez: 36 Ireland caps. 85 caps for Ulster.

Oh Sin é you poor boy you really think caps equal greatness?

Ferris always started ahead of Leamy when both were available, Im thinking particulary the 2009 Grand Slam. The problem is Ferris isnt always available

Those stats indicate what a very poor injury record Ferris has when you compare him to someone who had to retire through injury (and why their provincial caps are included).

By the way - 50% of Leamy's caps were at No. 8. Unfortunately, Leamy was never the same again after his shoulder operation in the summer of '08.

(by the way - Simon Easterby & Denis Leamy started ahead of Ferris in the world cup in 2007).

In fairness to Leamy he was world class when he burst on the scene in 2006 but was dogged with injury......

hey why the flip are we discussing Leamy?! SSSIIIINNNN!!!

Ferris was 21 at the 2007 WC :/

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ferris was 21 at the 2007 WC :/

Well, he was 22 the following year on the summer tour when he was sitting on the bench behind Leamy, Jennings & Heaslip against Australia and he didn't even make the bench against NZ (Leamy, Wallace & Heaslip with Jennings on the bench).

Leamy had his shoulder op after that tour and was never the same again.

(edit: marty2086 claimed that Ferris always started ahead of Leamy when available).

OK in a nutshell ....

Between Ferris and Leamy both on form, who was better?

Artful_Dodger wrote:OK in a nutshell ....

Between Ferris and Leamy both on form, who was better?

Hard to compare them really as Leamy played most his career at No. 8 prior to his shoulder op. He played no. 8 for the Heineken Cup final (and that season most of his games were there).

When Ferris came onto the scene, Leamys best form was already behind him so its a moot point. Leamy was a monster in his day but injuries stopped him achieving his potential.

Sadly the same could be said of Ferris.

Notch wrote:When Ferris came onto the scene, Leamys best form was already behind him so its a moot point. Leamy was a monster in his day but injuries stopped him achieving his potential.

Sadly the same could be said of Ferris.

Ferris was still a monster when injured, was it the Tigers game he was basically taped from head to toe and still put in a great performance

Sin é wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:OK in a nutshell ....

Between Ferris and Leamy both on form, who was better?

Hard to compare them really as Leamy played most his career at No. 8 prior to his shoulder op. He played no. 8 for the Heineken Cup final (and that season most of his games were there).

Yup that's true. Honestly I don't think there was much in it. Leamy was awesome for a while leading up to the 2007 RWC and put in some massive displays against the SH teams, had some injuries and was never quite the same. Ferris in my opinion was the best 6 in the planet last season.

I wouldn't swap Ferris for anyone but its easy to forget how good Leamy was because of some of his sluggish form later in his career. He's actually been a big loss for Munster and Ireland since he retired.

Someone said SOB was on a Central contract. He's not.

A guy on Leinsterfans did a thread on them. There are 19 of them.

A guy on Leinsterfans wrote:Donncha Ryan........2014
DOC........2014
POC........2014
Jamie Heaslip........2014
Gordon D'Arcy........2014
Keith Earls........2014
Tom Court........2014

Mike Ross........2015
Tommy Bowe........2015
Peter O'Mahony........2015
Rob Kearney........2015

Cian Healy........2016

Rory Best........2013 or 2014 not sure

That's 13. The other 6 are all up in May

Stephen Ferris........2013 Who knows?
Paddy Wallace........2013 Gone.
ROG........2013 Gone
Sexton........2013 Gone
bod........2013 Who knows? 1 more year or possibly not.
Andrew Trimble........2013 Gone

So between 4 and 6 Central Contracts up for grabs for next season.

So basically there are no halfbacks on central contracts next season?

On that basis you'd imagine Jackson and Murray may pick up 2. Zebo and POM the others.

Come on spill the beans Jen, is BOD staying or what??? I think if Kidney gets the heave ho and the IRFU get a decent replacement he'll play on....

rodders wrote:So basically there are no halfbacks on central contracts next season?

On that basis you'd imagine Jackson and Murray may pick up 2. Zebo and POM the others.

Come on spill the beans Jen, is BOD staying or what??? I think if Kidney gets the heave ho and the IRFU get a decent replacement he'll play on....

Jackson & Murray is a good shout. Zebo just signed a 3 year with Munster and POM is already on the list above.

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:When Ferris came onto the scene, Leamys best form was already behind him so its a moot point. Leamy was a monster in his day but injuries stopped him achieving his potential.

Sadly the same could be said of Ferris.

Ferris was still a monster when injured, was it the Tigers game he was basically taped from head to toe and still put in a great performance

Well, not when he's injured to the extent he can't play at all.

...well SOB is a shoe in.... Fitzgerald again maybe, Marshall maybe.... it depends on the great man I suppose....

BOD has always said he won't make the decision until the end of the season. I don't think theres any reason to think he's fibbing about that.

The kind of player he is, I don't think he would be able to say he's retiring and play with that in the back of his mind. He's 100% or nothing. Maybe I'm wrong.

Notch wrote:BOD has always said he won't make the decision until the end of the season. I don't think theres any reason to think he's fibbing about that.

The kind of player he is, I don't think he would be able to say he's retiring and play with that in the back of his mind. He's 100% or nothing. Maybe I'm wrong.

He was on the radio last night saying that Leinster would not be allowed to sign an NIQ in his place and that they had stated that publicly. Therefore he is under no pressure to make an announcement. He will decide during the summer (after the Lions tour)

SOB signed a 2 year Leinster contract last year. Didn't fancy a central.

Luke is a good shout, but the IRFU fecked him about last year and Leinster had to step in and give him a 1 year.

Brian O'Driscoll video interview on Off the Ball last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-i2UMPx1Ws

Thanks Sin.... doesn't sound like a man thinking about retirement anyways...

rodders wrote:Thanks Sin.... doesn't sound like a man thinking about retirement anyways...

Nope. Looks like he will play for another season at least. With POC back he won't feel so old! Must be hard having so few old timers around him!

Interesting about him going to Enda McNulty because he lost his confidence

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

At the moment, Munster's central contracts for next year are: DOC, D. Ryan, POM, Earls (more than likely POC will sign one as his is up this year and Conor Murray more than likely will get one) which would equal 6 for next year.

Leinsters so far for next year are: Healy, Ross, Heislip, D'Arcy, Kearney (and probably BOD if he wants one next year). SOB doesn't have a central contract because he apparently didn't want one.

Ulster contracts next year are: Best, Bowe & Ferris possibly - can't think of anyone else.

Ulster have a bit of ground to make up on the central contracts front. Better get busy producing players the IRFU want for the national team and stop bringing in all these saffers!

Think RoG still has one, that will go to PJ, Marshall should get one (D'arcys when its up) think geoff said Gilroy is getting one, is that producing enough players the IRFU want for you?

I don't see many if sin's post anymore but this quoted one was golden the last paragraph in particular.

How many ulster lads are starting tomorrow? Best, Jackson, Marshall, gilroy. Munster? Ryan, pom,
Murray, earls. Oddly similar number isn't it? How about the bench? What is it 2-2 there as well.

Oh how embarrassing.

Did BOD's missus not give it away with her crying last week? When he was injured and coming off. Surely emotional because she thought it was him walking off the pitch in Dublin for the last time for Ireland???

Or was she crying because he was in bad shape? Surely she'd be well used to that! no?

clivemcl wrote:Did BOD's missus not give it away with her crying last week? When he was injured and coming off. Surely emotional because she thought it was him walking off the pitch in Dublin for the last time for Ireland???

Or was she crying because he was in bad shape? Surely she'd be well used to that! no?

A month old kid with her, seeing her husband walking off the pitch in ribbons, she probably just welled up because he was bollixed. Wouldn't read too much more into it than that.

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:We dont need to drop anyone Olding will get plenty of game time - he could easily be number two 10 and number two 12.
I suspect he will get more game time than JJ, unless Munster change their selection policy.
Not bad for a 19 year old

Court has a central contract for next year
Marshall and Jackson will definitely get one very soon

In other words - a bench option who won't get to start any big games.

By the way, Olding is 20 (as is JJ who will be 21 in July).

Why do you think Marshall & Jackson will get a central contract? Gilroy & Zebo didn't and Toulouse were after Zebo.

The arguement about Olding you make is bogus. Reminds me of the arguement about Paul Marshall last year. He cannot be considered for the International set up because he was not a first choice.

Trouble was Marshall had more game time last year than any other Irish qualified 9.

Olding will get plenty of games next year - injuries, international call ups, rotation - probable in the 10-15 starts range and will be a permanent on the bench for the other games.
As you state he is a year behind JJ - JJ has started 3 games in total, by this time next year Olding will be in double figures. Ulster are giving their youth every chance
By the way Olding is only just 20 (by 4 days) - JJ is a 7 months older

Mashall will get a central contract for the simple reason he is seen as D'arcy successor.
Jackson will get a central contract because he is seen as the best 10 based in Ireland.

Gilroy and and Zebo have yet to get Central contracts because they are in a position where we are seen to have 7 International standard wingers - Bowe, Zebo, Gilroy, Earls, McFadded, Fitzpatrick, Trimble.

Marshall and Jackson are kety to Irelands future in a way no one winger is -

Sin é wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:OK in a nutshell ....

Between Ferris and Leamy both on form, who was better?

Hard to compare them really as Leamy played most his career at No. 8 prior to his shoulder op. He played no. 8 for the Heineken Cup final (and that season most of his games were there).

Sorry no contest

Leamy was an outstanding HC standard player who put in a very decent shift as an International.
Ferris was an outstanding International player who at his best was World Class - sadly that career has been serverly curtailed due to injury.

If you conducted a poll of the non Irish supporters here asking who was the better player - it would be so one sided that an Independant Electoral commision would find the result suspicious.


The term World Class can be applied to Ferris, it cannot be applied to Leamy

clivemcl wrote:Did BOD's missus not give it away with her crying last week? When he was injured and coming off. Surely emotional because she thought it was him walking off the pitch in Dublin for the last time for Ireland???

Or was she crying because he was in bad shape? Surely she'd be well used to that! no?

Staged

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

At the moment, Munster's central contracts for next year are: DOC, D. Ryan, POM, Earls (more than likely POC will sign one as his is up this year and Conor Murray more than likely will get one) which would equal 6 for next year.

Leinsters so far for next year are: Healy, Ross, Heislip, D'Arcy, Kearney (and probably BOD if he wants one next year). SOB doesn't have a central contract because he apparently didn't want one.

Ulster contracts next year are: Best, Bowe & Ferris possibly - can't think of anyone else.

Ulster have a bit of ground to make up on the central contracts front. Better get busy producing players the IRFU want for the national team and stop bringing in all these saffers!

Think RoG still has one, that will go to PJ, Marshall should get one (D'arcys when its up) think geoff said Gilroy is getting one, is that producing enough players the IRFU want for you?

I don't see many if sin's post anymore but this quoted one was golden the last paragraph in particular.

How many ulster lads are starting tomorrow? Best, Jackson, Marshall, gilroy. Munster? Ryan, pom,
Murray, earls. Oddly similar number isn't it? How about the bench? What is it 2-2 there as well.

Oh how embarrassing.

Whatever about the others, Jackson wouldn't be starting and P Marshall wouldn't be near the bench except for a lot of injuries.
You also forget that Ross is from Munster (as is Reddan who would be there except for getting injured last week).

Gas to think that 4 of the 6 front row in Rome this weekend are Munstermen.

Sin Paul Marshalls on the bench because of ONE injury to Reddan and he should have been playing in green long before this weekend

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I know geoff says Ulster received extra to make up for lack of central contracts, so maybe they wanted to keep spread number of central contracts evenier?

At the moment, Munster's central contracts for next year are: DOC, D. Ryan, POM, Earls (more than likely POC will sign one as his is up this year and Conor Murray more than likely will get one) which would equal 6 for next year.

Leinsters so far for next year are: Healy, Ross, Heislip, D'Arcy, Kearney (and probably BOD if he wants one next year). SOB doesn't have a central contract because he apparently didn't want one.

Ulster contracts next year are: Best, Bowe & Ferris possibly - can't think of anyone else.

Ulster have a bit of ground to make up on the central contracts front. Better get busy producing players the IRFU want for the national team and stop bringing in all these saffers!

Think RoG still has one, that will go to PJ, Marshall should get one (D'arcys when its up) think geoff said Gilroy is getting one, is that producing enough players the IRFU want for you?

I don't see many if sin's post anymore but this quoted one was golden the last paragraph in particular.

How many ulster lads are starting tomorrow? Best, Jackson, Marshall, gilroy. Munster? Ryan, pom,
Murray, earls. Oddly similar number isn't it? How about the bench? What is it 2-2 there as well.

Oh how embarrassing.

Whatever about the others, Jackson wouldn't be starting and P Marshall wouldn't be near the bench except for a lot of injuries.
You also forget that Ross is from Munster (as is Reddan who would be there except for getting injured last week).

Gas to think that 4 of the 6 front row in Rome this weekend are Munstermen.

When you have 6 Munster front row players playing in the same test game, talk to me.

If Munster sign Luke Fitz they could have an all Leinster backline next year.

Last player we signed from Munster directly was EIGHT years ago.

(Seeing as we seem to be turning this into a mickey measuring thread)

geoff998rugby wrote:

Gilroy and and Zebo have yet to get Central contracts because they are in a position where we are seen to have 7 International standard wingers - Bowe, Zebo, Gilroy, Earls, McFadded, Fitzpatrick, Trimble.

Hiding Fitzpatrick out on the wing won't stop him getting injured. He'll still have to get into scrums.

geoff998rugby wrote:
The arguement about Olding you make is bogus. Reminds me of the arguement about Paul Marshall last year. He cannot be considered for the International set up because he was not a first choice.

I don't think that was the argument with him. It has never been the argument against Eoin Reddan who wasn't obviously first choice, but got a decent amount of gametime in all games - i.e., he was trusted to come on.

Trouble was Marshall had more game time last year than any other Irish qualified 9.

Most of those games were in Rabo games though. Marmion has surpassed him now on that front.

Olding will get plenty of games next year - injuries, international call ups, rotation - probable in the 10-15 starts range and will be a permanent on the bench for the other games.
As you state he is a year behind JJ - JJ has started 3 games in total, by this time next year Olding will be in double figures. Ulster are giving their youth every chance
By the way Olding is only just 20 (by 4 days) - JJ is a 7 months older

JJ & Olding were at the Junior World Cup last year. Olding is a year behind JJ in the same way that JJ is a year behind Jackson.
This time last year Jackson had 2 starts in the Rabo and a few minutes against Aironi in the Heineken Cup. Not that different to where JJ is (who is 7 months younger than Jackson).

Olding will be hampered though getting quality gametime (HCup) because Jackson & Marshall are only developing and need to get a run of games to develop their game - Ulster won't always have Pienaar to lean on.

Mashall will get a central contract for the simple reason he is seen as D'arcy successor.
Jackson will get a central contract because he is seen as the best 10 based in Ireland.

Marshall will get a central contract - but not until D'Arcy's one expires. If Madigan is first choice 10 for Leinster, that might change.

Gilroy and and Zebo have yet to get Central contracts because they are in a position where we are seen to have 7 International standard wingers - Bowe, Zebo, Gilroy, Earls, McFadded, Fitzpatrick, Trimble.

[code]Marshall and Jackson are kety to Irelands future in a way no one winger is -[/quote]

I agree about the wingers - but the situation could well change in the same way for the outhalfs in that Ireland could shortly have a couple of quality outhalfs as well.

marty2086 wrote:Sin Paul Marshalls on the bench because of ONE injury to Reddan and he should have been playing in green long before this weekend

Marshall is there because of his familiarity with Jackson.

Otherwise it would have been Boss or Tomas O'Leary (who has been out for the season).