Scotland 6N summary and post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

If someone had told me in January that we were gonna come 3rd and score 7 tries I wouldn't have believed them! However I can't help but think we have played worse than last year, and regressed in several aspects. However the question is does that matter? Is 2 wins and 3rd place the be all and end all? I'm not convinced.

England 38 - Scotland 18

Try: Hogg, Maitland
Conversion : Laidlaw
Penalty: Laidlaw (2)

Forgot the scoreboard was so high against us! This wasn't the best start to the championship and we were pretty much 2nd best in every aspect. We were well and truly dominated but scored a couple of cracking tries, announcing our back 3 as a lethal threat that we should look to use more of.

Scotland 34 - Italy 10

Try: Visser, Scott, Hogg, Lamont
Conversion: Laidlaw (4)
Penalty: Laidlaw (2)

Much, much better. Dominated Italy in the 1st half and amassed a large lead. Took the foot off the gas and let Italy dominate possession but we still ran out comfortable winners. Scored 4 - yes 4 - tries and showed some great attacking intent. Hogg's solo effort was one of the tries of the tournament but my personal favourite was Matt Scott's - it came from a first phase move, which we haven't seen for a long time!

All in all a very promising performance and augured well for the future.

However....

Scotland 12 - Ireland 8

Penalty: Laidlaw (4)

The freak game in the championship. Scotland again 2nd best, and had the lowest possession and territory stats in living memory, but still somehow win. Completely reliant on Ireland messing up their chances but we stuck in well and Laidlaw's boot won us the game in the end. Major concerns at the breakdown however.

Scotland 18 - Wales 28

Penalty: Laidlaw (6)

Our lowest point in the championship. Dominated in most aspects of play and destroyed in the scrum. Farcical refereeing and negative tactics from both teams made it a difficult watch, and Wales out-thought us to the win. Back to earth with a bump.

France 23 - Scotland 16

Try: Visser
Conversion: Jackson
Penalty: Laidlaw (3)

Never been a better time to beat France, but we didn't exactly show that we were wanting to! Good first half where Laidlaw dominated but the 2nd half was one of the poorest performances in the championship I think. Fantastic Visser try but why did we wait until the 76th minute to pass it to the backs??


So a real mixed bag of results. I think we had good performances in individual areas over all the 5 games, the problem obviously being that we didn't manage to put them all together at the same time!



Front row

Probably gain pass marks on the whole. Dominated by England and Wales in the scrum, upper hand against Ireland and Italy and just held in against France. Ford's throwing is still suspect, but hew wasn't helped by his jumpers.

2nd row

Again probably just pass marks. Hamilton had a stormer against Ireland but let himself down again Wales. Gray was looking good and very physical up until his injury - hope he gets back playing soon.

Back row

Kelly Eye-brows led from the front in every match and put a huge performance in, even though playing out of position. Harley started off well against Italy but was a lot quieter in the following games. Beattie showed early promise but again faded through the championship. Made a few mistakes and I'm still not convinced by his mentality at this level. Overall though the backrow must take a lot of responsibility for the farce that was our rucking and ball retention.

We desperately need to get Brown back at 6 and a genuine openside fit and in form.

Halfbacks

Laidlaw grew into the little general role as the tournament went on. Best kickier in the 6N and marshaled the pack well. I think he takes too much responsibility on to himself though and there are times when he was needing to just be a scrum half and give some rapid service to the backline.

Standoff was a real mixed bag, but other than the Italy game they were given hee-haw ball. I am a big fan of Weir though and think he is worth sticking with. Jackson showed his usual mix of good touches combined with glaring flaws in his basic skills - i.e. kicking.

Centers

These guys had a real lack of ball in most games, and were resigned to defencive duties in most. Matt Scott had fantastic game against Italy, and showed up well against France. Lamont tries hard but definitely isn't a 13 - time to blood the next generation I think.

Back 3

The stars of the show but criminally underused. If we can keep these 3 together over the coming years they can be real superstars. They have a real good balance - Visser the finisher, Maitland the alrounder and Hogg the spark in attack. Question marks on defence but that should get better.


Summary

All in all disappointing performances but 2 wins and 7 tries. Massive amount of work required on the breakdown and ball retention - how has it gone downhill so quickly?? - but hopefully we can get a good coach in that can fix it. We have a lethal back 3 that can win us games - we just need to give them some ball.

Good shout re Tonks, Sir. I (like our selectors) had totally forgotten about him

Imperialbigdave wrote:I see were debating Hogg at 13.

Is it that time of the week again?

Yes it is. Hogg at 13, Lamont at number 8, and Vernon at 12.

Done.

Yours sincerely,
Andy Robinson and Frank Haddock

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:I see were debating Hogg at 13.

Is it that time of the week again?

Yes it is. Hogg at 13, Lamont at number 8, and Vernon at 12.

Done.

Yours sincerely,
Andy Robinson and Frank Haddock

Man the cynisym! I won't have comparisons to Hadden or Robinson.

Because you have discussed Hogg at 13 for Scotland it can't be discussed in other contexts?? Saying he is only a full back seems closed minded. Its a lot easier to transfer skills for 11,13,14,15. than elsewhere in the side and Hogg clearly has those transferable skills. The challenge at 13 is particularly about understanding and reading the defence. That was merely my question with him. Adam Ashley Cooper is a great example of a full back who thrived in the 13 position when given the chance. The lions will want people to be flexible given the number of games and it is likely Hogg will be used other than at full back. It would have been hard to ask Hogg to play 13 for Scotland in an international without due experience but a midweek game for the lions is different. Seeing what he did against Munster and his running style, I think he could do well, especially with a good side aroud him on the front foot.

The lamont comment was merely recognosing that for quite some time he has mostly been found in the middle of rucks, doesnt pass and runs into people not at space, much more a number 6 than a back. The only time he touched the ball the whole tournament was from the back of rucks. A real shame as I loved watching him when he first hit the scene for Glasgow and was such a dangerous attacking threat running at space. He clearly wishes he was a flanker.

I have never endorsed Vernon at centre. Frankly I have never endorsed Vernon at rugby.

DrTreasure wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:I see were debating Hogg at 13.

Is it that time of the week again?

Yes it is. Hogg at 13, Lamont at number 8, and Vernon at 12.

Done.

Yours sincerely,
Andy Robinson and Frank Haddock

Man the cynisym! I won't have comparisons to Hadden or Robinson.

Because you have discussed Hogg at 13 for Scotland it can't be discussed in other contexts?? Saying he is only a full back seems closed minded. Its a lot easier to transfer skills for 11,13,14,15. than elsewhere in the side and Hogg clearly has those transferable skills. The challenge at 13 is particularly about understanding and reading the defence. That was merely my question with him. Adam Ashley Cooper is a great example of a full back who thrived in the 13 position when given the chance. The lions will want people to be flexible given the number of games and it is likely Hogg will be used other than at full back. It would have been hard to ask Hogg to play 13 for Scotland in an international without due experience but a midweek game for the lions is different. Seeing what he did against Munster and his running style, I think he could do well, especially with a good side aroud him on the front foot.

The lamont comment was merely recognosing that for quite some time he has mostly been found in the middle of rucks, doesnt pass and runs into people not at space, much more a number 6 than a back. The only time he touched the ball the whole tournament was from the back of rucks. A real shame as I loved watching him when he first hit the scene for Glasgow and was such a dangerous attacking threat running at space. He clearly wishes he was a flanker.

I have never endorsed Vernon at centre. Frankly I have never endorsed Vernon at rugby.

Of course youre allowed to bring it up, i was just being sarcastic seeing as we pretty much do discuss this once a week.

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Hogg is being touted as a potential lion as a fullback. He has played 90% of his pro career and 100% of his international career at fullback. His skillset is one of a fullback. Talk of him at centre was at least partially down to a dearth of other centres last year. This is no longer the case. Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett, Fife, Grove, Ansbro hopefully, Taylor... these are all guys with potential to be better than any centre weve had since Tait and Leslie (with the exception of mighty Rob Dewey of course). This time last year, only Grove and Ansbro were really in the frame.

Yes he had that great game against munster at 13, but hes had a few stinkers aswell.

I don't think tackling is a weak point in Hogg's game. Yeah he missed Fofana but there are plenty of top class players who have done that (see his try against England). Hogg also took that prop down on Saturday but not only that, won the penalty for Scotland.

His last line defence is pretty good to be honest. His catching under the high ball was poor on Saturday but then only Picomoles (sp?) looked assured in those conditions.

His catching under the high hasn't been great all tournament to be fair, certainly not at the level of Halfpenny and Kearney in that department.

Let's not slip into the Welsh and Irish trap of explaining why our players are world class without admitting to the flaws in their game. Hogg is an exceptional attacking player, and brave, but in defence and under the high ball, whilst he isn't bad, he isn't as good as Kearney and Halfpenny.

As for Hogg at centre, what I said was that he's an international quality 15, and a club quality 13. Move him to 13 if you like, but at 13 I don't think he's any better than a number of options, whereas he has claims to be one of the best fullbacks on the circuit. Versatility is helpful obviously, should injuries occur it's handy to know that Hogg can do a job at 13, but as for starting him at 13 for the Lions in a mid-week game, why not just use one of Tuilagi, BOD or JD2? Surely you won't be resting them all at the same time?

Agreed.

Not meaning to build him up as the best thing since sliced bread but he does have great qualities which differ from Kearney and Halfpenny. All three have justifications on going to Australia but it will all boil down to the type of game plan Gatland wants to impose. One way or the other, there is going to some seriously talented rugby players left out.

I'm amazed at the lack of talk of Brown going on the tour.

2nd top tackler and turnovers in the 6Ns. In form in his league, surely he has to be tipped for the 6 spot? Robshaw at 7? Or Tipuric ofc (I dont see Sam as being the answer with his up and down form)

Also with Brown able to do 6,7 and 8, he must surely be in wiht a great shout???

I think he has a decent chance, but there really is stiff competition for that slot.

Wood and Robshaw (both also capable of playing either side, and Wood capable to covering 8) are excellent players and also had excellent tournaments. SOB, another capable of playing either side, is a superb player with a game changing ball carrying ability. Croft has Lions experience and offers a different sort of game, eating up the pitch when the game gets fast and loose (which it will against the Aussies) and offering an excellent lineout target.

There's also Lydiate to consider if fit, and similarly Ferris.

Of all those players Brown is your classic silent assassin style 6, and out and out workhorse allowing others to shine. Would be a great 6 to play alongside SOB or Tipuric at 7 in my view, but there is strong competition for that jersey, which is why I think there's been little fanfare for Brown in particular.

The media go on and on about Robshaw, but I thought Brown was fantastic in the 6N. He played very well in every game and has been very consistent last few years. Many of us doubted his positioning at 7, but he did a bloomin good job.

I was just watching Peter Horne try vs Northampton again. Brilliant offload from Dunbar to set Horne up with space to score a really beautiful try. Both players totally excluded from Scotland this 6N.. Its really mind boggling if you ask me.

Good to see Kelly eyebrows have a storming game for Sarries today. Looks like he let a lot of frustration out there!

Bodes well for the Lions / Scotland summer tour if he can keep this up

I'd easily have brown as Scotland's player of the 6n's. head and shoulders above anyone else including the, IMO, over-rated Stuart hogg.

Don't get me wrong. Hogg is a good player and a future star, but he is flashy instead of consistent. Saw he was shortlisted as player of the tourney but brown should be in there instead.

Yeah, the shortlist was a bit of a joke - not for any particular player included, but because of the justifications provided by the IRB. So, Owen Farrell should be considered because he "was the most talked about player across social media"? I'm all for social media, but how many of the comments made about him were actually people noting that he looks like Rainman when he kicks?

That's before we even get onto the subject of allowing the public to vote for the award. 606v2 is, for the most part, full of posters who know a considerable amount about the game, but the irrational views held about players truly shows that we shouldn't be asking anyone's opinion in any official capacity.

In the words of Kent Brockman "I've said it before and I'll say it again - democracy simply doesn't work."

IanBru wrote:I'm all for social media, but how many of the comments made about him were actually people noting that he looks like Rainman when he kicks?

With ball in hand and space to run at Hogg is absolutely electric. I don't really feel that any other part of his game is anything more than decent/good. Good kicker, decent tackling, decent under the high ball. You get the idea.

However his main strength (that running ability) is something we lack in the squad so we need to find out how best to utilise it. For me it's probably at 15, particularly as we have plenty of options at 13 (listed above) no real outstanding contenders at 15.

Its that time of the week again!!!!!!!!!!!

Im not berating you for mentioning it JDCSR, I just want this to become a thing among scottish posters whenever Hogg at 13 is mentioned, a bit like how having Gavin Henson as an option in every poll became a thing.

Can't you Frak read, I said keep him at 15.

JDCSR wrote:Can't you Frak read, I said keep him at 15.

But you implied that there was a question to begin with.

Of course youre allowed to bring it up, i was just being sarcastic seeing as we pretty much do discuss this once a week.

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Hogg is being touted as a potential lion as a fullback. He has played 90% of his pro career and 100% of his international career at fullback. His skillset is one of a fullback. Talk of him at centre was at least partially down to a dearth of other centres last year. This is no longer the case. Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett, Fife, Grove, Ansbro hopefully, Taylor... these are all guys with potential to be better than any centre weve had since Tait and Leslie (with the exception of mighty Rob Dewey of course). This time last year, only Grove and Ansbro were really in the frame.

Yes he had that great game against munster at 13, but hes had a few stinkers aswell.[/quote]

It's nice to see rob deweys talents being recognised, such a wasted talent! I'm not at the moment suggesting Hogg for a long term outside centre berth for scotland just whether he has the flexibility that will allow him more game time on the tour. If they take 3 fullbacks then they will not only play every third game and while halfpenny can play wing I suspect they will be looking at him for the test berth (gatland and all) and want him to have game time there. Kearney is inflexible hence the question about him. Clearly Glasgow think he can but interesting to hear that he has played badly there, thank you.

It is also likely that there will be injuries with bod, Roberts and tuilagi all physical liabilities in the past year or so and questions about form. For scotland the argument will continue I'm afraid. The list you give are options but Horne, Scott and Dunbar are all better 12s. Fife and your messiah have potential but from what I've seen in the past few months still need to develop. Taylor will need to move or get the tirst team spot from tompkins. Ansbro is out for long term and grove doesn't seemed to be deemed good enough at the moment and was poor at Edinburgh. With tonks showing some great stuff for Edinburgh this year despite how poor the team is and also playing brilliantly for scotland A it would be reasonable to look at how to have all the best players involved where the opportunity arises.

On a side note a definitely think brown should go and will show that for Saracens for the remainder of the season. Do people think Rennie will be able to play himself into contention. I thought he was excellent against ulster and that was his first game back from a bad shoulder injury. I hope he is considered but worry he won't get enough opportunity to show his current worth.

I hope Rennie does catch the eye of Gatland, he offers a different sort of 7 to Tipuric and Warburton.

Rennie is very good at stripping the ball from opponents while they are carrying it into contact where as Tipuric and Warburton are similar to Barclay, Brown, Robshaw and Pocock who jackal for the ball on the deck.

Rennie did look particularly impressive on Friday although it was an under strength Ulster team. It's funny how you don't miss someone until they aren't there (the same was true of Simon Taylor)
Given the options at 7 for the Lions, I think he will be overlooked but at least he will be able to go to SA with Scotland

Agreed - I think the boat sailed on Rennie's chances whilst he was injured during the 6 Nations. He doesn't have the same level of tub thumping support from the media as the likes of Lydiate, Ferris and POC, and as such I can easily see Gatland omitting him, particularly after the performances of Warburton and Tipuric against England. I think SOB will almost certainly go as well, so I think we'll have Rennie with us in South Africa.

A shame for Rennie, who is easily capable, but even if he plays out of his skin between now and selection day, the games are against Zebre, Connacht, Treviso and the Dragons, so it's hard to gauge his readiness for the Lions. That won't stop Gatland picking Lydiate I suspect.....

I'll be raging if Lydiate goes over one of the form players of the 6N having played 4 games for the Dragons. If he goes over Brown there will be uproar!

Really do have a feeling it will happen....

What are peoples thoughts on Hines' chances? His name hasn't been mentioned for a while but the team are lacking the ultimate enforcer like him - kind of like the Simon Shaw role of 2009

Why do some players get so much attention from the media? I agree with you FES that Rennie will not feature for the Lions, I'm happy about that since he will be helpful in that tournament in the summer.

It's not just Rennie though, a few Scotland players : Grant, Beattie, Brown and Scott had a pretty good 6N, and could be argued to have had better games than their peers from either Wales, Ireland or England but just don't seem to get the recognition.

I reckon Scott was one of the best inside centres in the tournament he also really laid down a marker, Roberts was AWOL untill the England game, Barrett is solid but limited and Marshall for Ireland is injured. Grant was one of the best looseheads if we ignore the debacle against Wales and the shambles pitch in France and Brown was comfortably Scotland's best player despite being played out of his most comfortable position.

As for the no.8 slot Faletau and Beattie were head and shoulders the best two no.8s in the 6N, but why do these guys not get the recognition? Is it because they are Scottish and we are precieved as "Lucky, crap and or weak".

Last Lions tour we were poorly represented and rightly so, we were playing poorly, but after finishing 3rd in the 6N winning 2 games for the 1st time in ages I guess I'm a little miffed we aren't getting the plaudits I think we deserve.

On Hines' chances I think they are slim. Launchbury, Evans and Alan Wyn Jones will go, and I think that POC will go as well if he proves his fitness between now and the end of the season in the HC.

That leaves one space, with Gray, Lawes, Parling, Hamilton and Ryan contenders.

I agree than Hines has the ability, but he's shut himself off from international rugby and is playing in France. Given the options above, I think Gatland will skip over him. I'd be delighted to see him go though, great player.

Radge - agree on some of our players not being duly considered good enough by other fans, but that's not to say Gatland won't think differently. With Morgan being injured and Heaslip being mince, I think Beattie is one of our stronger contenders, and Brown continues to stake his claim. Brown isn't a game changing sort of player, he just doesn't seem to have a bad game. Would be good option if you were to want SOB at 7. That said, whilst we have good players, the real question is whether they can genuinely be said to be better than the alternatives. Ryan Grant is very good, but so are Jenkins and Healy. Brown is excellent, but so are Wood, Croft and O'Mahony (and SOB and Robshaw). Scott was strong in the 6 Nations, but Barritt, Roberts, Marshall and Twelvetrees also played well.

What I'll want to know is that our players were given due consideration. In reality you can justify most selections, including a squad with 5 or 6 Scots and a squad with none. As long as I feel that Gatland is picking on fitness, form and ability, I won't mind the outcome. Ultimately I'd support the Lions with or without Scots. What I'd object to is selection on reputation and "experience".

Completely agree with whats being said here particularly about the due process needed for the selection and also about Lydiate's potential involvement. The guy was very good one year ago but has only very recently returned from a broken ankle and shouldn't go on the tour given the other options. Will be furious if he is picked at the expense of Brown who, as I have now seen, looked very good at the weekend for Saracens, especially his break and dummy. He would make an excellent mid week captain.

Interesting that Greenwood has Grant in his starting side. Think the tackle stats from the 6 nations should really work in his favour though Vunipola is gaining some moment in the AP. I, personally, didnt think Beattie played as well in the tournament as others think. He seemed to hold back a bit and looked uncomfortable holding his shoulder after making a couple of tackles. Not quite back to his 2010 best but getting there and I hope he shines for Montpellier and gets the nod against an out of form Heaslip.

Does anyone know what the trip to SA entails and who we will be playing? If Brown was with the Lions who would people like to see leading the Summer tour?

I think Laidlaw would be the obvious choice to captain the summer tour were Brown to go with the Lions, with Ryan Grant another possible. Ross Rennie would be an outside bet, but I think on balance Laidlaw would be the right choice.

Scotland play Samoa and SA, SA play Scotland and Italy, Italy play SA and Samoa.

Somehow out of that they get a top 2 who play in the final and the bottom 2 who play in the runners up!

All in all a good competition and hopefully we beat Samoa and qualify for the final so we can get 2 tests against SA.

I'd take Laidlaw as captain if Brown is called up, although it might persuade him to pass the ball to the backs even less!

That's actually a cracking little mini-tournament for us and Italy. Gives the squad a great opportunity to tour together and add some meaning to the event by making it a tournament rather than simply tour games.

Hopefully Scott Johnson can be convinced to allow players like Dunbar and Grove to tour, it would be a shame to waste this tour playing Lamont at 13.

It does sound like a good tournament though it also sounds like the games will be very competitive which may limit the amount they can experiment and bleed new players. What Scotland really need is to bring through players more effectively but also allow continuity on the pitch around a clear gameplan. That is the next challenge I feel for Johnson, for him to show that he can bring the players together with a clear and effective strategy on the pitch that allows the side to be competitive. We have all identified the areas on the pitch that needs addressed and I wonder if he is capable of doing that. I think Lamont would be a good captain for the youngsters coming through but wouldnt be an option as I dont see him being a starter in the next 12 months. Maybe he can lead from the backrow ... only kidding! Laidlaw probably is the most likely though if Beattie was with the Lions I think Ryan Wilson would make a good captain for this tour.

DrTreasure wrote:It does sound like a good tournament though it also sounds like the games will be very competitive which may limit the amount they can experiment and bleed new players. What Scotland really need is to bring through players more effectively but also allow continuity on the pitch around a clear gameplan. That is the next challenge I feel for Johnson, for him to show that he can bring the players together with a clear and effective strategy on the pitch that allows the side to be competitive. We have all identified the areas on the pitch that needs addressed and I wonder if he is capable of doing that. I think Lamont would be a good captain for the youngsters coming through but wouldnt be an option as I dont see him being a starter in the next 12 months. Maybe he can lead from the backrow ... only kidding! Laidlaw probably is the most likely though if Beattie was with the Lions I think Ryan Wilson would make a good captain for this tour.

Funnily enough Wasps had exactly the same problem as Scotland did on Saturday (I was at the game for the first time in ages!) they kicked far too much and their forwards were dominated and they didn't commit any men to the breakdown, new tactic coming in across union perhaps? I think our forwards need some work, although it strikes me as odd that Glasgow have a pretty mean pack yet when Scotland come to it they have some difficulties. Perhaps Swinson this summer should finally get his chance, I think he adds a bit of oomph. Also bring Barclay back and give the B's a re-run, I think they have a lot more to offer. I'd like to see Pyrgos use his pace again he's lost a little form recently but I think he's a better long-term option than Laidlaw, who is tactically astute but needs to learn to kick less away, he's not a fly half anymore.

Otherwise looks set to be an interesting year in Scottish rugby, perhaps not great, but interesting for sure. If we have a good summer tour followed by some nice Autumn internationals that'd be great. I still think we need a new head coach though, SJ is a clever man but not sure if he's right for the long-term job up top. If he can stay as attack coach that'd be top though.

Only issue with Wilson is that if Denton recovers form and fitness by the end of the season. Samoa and SA are pretty physical sides, and Denton is the more powerful ball carrier of the two.

Wilson well ahead on form nonetheless.

Agree though that this is a very important tour for Johnson to show that he's capable to developing not just the personnel, but the tactics as well.

I only saw the highlights but was amazed with the way Wasps were taken apart in the contact. They are a team that has really impressed me this season and have scored some cracking tries. Think Scotland have that in them too with the firepower out wide. I think SJ is a good motivator and talker, probably a good person to take over in the wake of Robinson but I agree about needing someone new with a proper tactical nous. Glasgow do seem to play a very effective gameplan currently and I think they use Barclay very well as first receiver. He was doing it again against Leinster. It would be good to see Rennie back playing though as well and hopefully if Fusaro is back we will have competition again for a fetcher. As everyone says we need to leave Brown to play 6 and only 6. The more competition for places the better we will be. Would love to see Denton regain form and maybe a good tour will do that for him but I have been really disappointed in him this season.

To be fair, when you look at the international calendar over the next few years there's never been a better time to blood youngsters. Yes it is a competitive tournament but at the end of the day it is just a load of friendlies.

I'm not saying wholesale changes but the likes of Lamont, Hall and kellock shouldn't feature much imo.

Ideally I would have liked them to have taken a large squad and had an extra couple of fixtures around those internationals, ie against south african sides so that we could really get guys playing together and getting good game time for the guys coming through like Heathcote, Dunbar etc. A large squad would of allowed us to take younger guys like Bennett and Kennedy so they can gain the experience even if limited with game time. It would give players an easier introduction to the national side, allow development of morale, continuity and tactics. I realize this costs money but maybe they could use Atiga wages for next season instead to pay for it.

You have to be bold with selection on these summer tours. Now is the time to make a few changes and give some new blood a chance. I'm not suggesting for one minutes chucking in a bunch of kids who don't deserve it, but players like MacArthur, Swinson, Gilchrist, Harley, Wilson, Weir, Heathcote, Dunbar and Grove deserve to tour and play prominent (if not starting) roles.

Final selection will depend on who goes with the Lions, but I concur that this is not a tour for the likes of Hall, Kellock, Cusiter, S Lamont and N Walker.

Scotland have Samoa first up then SA. hopefully we can get a win over Samoa to give us confidence going into SA (and overtake them in the rankings).

Then there's all to play for in the final against SA!

I like the idea of the team getting two cracks at South Africa.

Great experience for the players having a tour like this, it can only improve (or injure) them.

If we end up playing Italy I’m not sure what will happen – they are crap at Murrayfield, we are crap in Italy – what will happen on neutral turf??

Would be a shame if we didn’t end up playing SA twice – not sure another Italy game will do much for our development.

I think being away from the pressure of the 6 Nations will be helpful. Winning these games is not the be all and end all imperitive of the 6 Nations or home AIs. This is the time to try out the risker backs moves and perhaps keep the ball in hand a little more to see what transpires. Hopefully that freedom can bring our decent outside backs more into the game. Having Rennie back in the fold will also be a big help in this respect.

Hope all the games will be televised.

Let's not forget that we may well be weakened by having however many guys away with the Lions. Playing Samoa let alone SA when ranking points are available is not ideal. That said, I agree with all the sentiments that it is time to phase out the Older Guard

Realistically i would expect to lose Scott, Brown, Hogg, Grant, Beattie and Gray to the lions.

Possibly Laidlaw, Visser and or Maitland too.

Not sure "realistically" is the right word Radge - particularly for Scott, Brown and Grant.

Gray is also a doubt surely because of his injury. He'll need to prove full fitness before being picked for the Lions. Scotland may take a punt on him, but Gatland shouldn't.

Beattie has a good chance principally because Heaslip had a poor tournament and Morgan is injured. Beattie made quite a few handling errors in the tournament and is by no means a cert to make the squad.

Hogg should go though. He's made for the Lions. A relentlessly energetic and positive individual and player, fearless on the counter-attack and in the tackle. There are some good options at 15 to give him competition, but Gatland is a fan and has stated that he wouldn't be comfortable not taking a representative from each of the 4 nations, and Hogg is clearly a form pick and easy to justify.

Agree with your possibles. I'd add Euan Murray to that list, if Gatland decides to take 6 props and therefore 3 tightheads.

Not sure if it's already been said, but I think Scotland missed Rennie this Six Nations. Don't get me wrong, Kelly Brown deputised briliantly at 7, but I still feel he is your best 6. The backrow would have had a better balance had a natural 7 been there.

I really like the look of a 6. Brown 7. Rennie 8.Beattie backrow for you boys.

Scotland impressed me as a whole the entire 6 Nations, and tyhey have a good young squad developing. The future's certainly bright.

We're all on the same page as regards Rennie. Hugely missed by Scotland this tournament, and his comeback game for Edinburgh against Ulster was a timely reminder of his talents.

His injury couldn't have come at a worse time. In my view he'd be in contention for the Lions had he stayed fit.

Jim Telfer was right, he and Tipuric would have been leading contenders for that 7 jersey, as the two best out and out 7's available.

A back row of Brown, Rennie and Beattie is a serious back row indeed, with options like Harley, Strokosch, Barclay, Fusaro, Denton and Wilson for the bench. A real shame our three specialist 7's were unavailable for this 6 Nations (or in Barclay's case, out of favour).

funnyExiledScot wrote:A back row of Brown, Rennie and Beattie is a serious back row indeed, with options like Harley, Strokosch, Barclay, Fusaro, Denton and Wilson for the bench. A real shame our three specialist 7's were unavailable for this 6 Nations (or in Barclay's case, out of favour).

fixed that for you

I thought Strokosch was very good against France in the last game personally, and don't be mistaken about Denton, form is temporary but class is permanent.

Denton does something that most of our other back rowers don't really do.

He doesn't just run into people, he runs into them really, REALLY hard. When he was on form he used to steamroll players, smashing them onto their arses. And it had the same effect as Jason White big hits (how I miss those) lifting the team and the crowd.

Why did Denton stop doing that then- in fact when did he start doing it for Scotland?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Why did Denton stop doing that then- in fact when did he start doing it for Scotland?

in his first game, you know the one where he got man of the match for steamrolling over an english player every time he got the ball?