To All Users of the Tennis Section - Please Read

To all users of the Tennis board,

The Admin Team feels that the overall hostile and unfriendly tone of tennis section is currently detrimental to 606v2 as a whole and that all posters should honestly question whether their posts bring anything positive and healthy to the forum. We would like to emphasise that it is not about rule-breaking but about creating a more friendly, healthy environment that more posters would want to be involved in rather than leave.

If things don't change there are several members who could be removed from the site or the section could be temporarily (at first) closed.

Please take account of the following and if any of the listed changes apply to your posts, please amend your posting style immediately. This is an open warning and any further transgressions will be dealt with accordingly.

The problem isn't rule-breaking, it's the overall negativity of the forum and the endless circular debates to 'prove' one point of contention is correct, or one player is better/worse - often aimed specifically at the expense of other posters. Eventually the posters who post loudest and longest 'win' and the others disappear from the forum, because it has ceased to hold any enjoyment for them. Not from losing the argument, but from the hostility and animosity of the other posters.

It seems most threads are either created for the purposes of criticism and/or battle, or else hi-jacked into a battle.
It's no wonder outsiders look at the tennis forum and think there is more than the fair share of nutjobs on there (as one poster put it on the GOAT thread).

The list of changes that are required from certain posters are:

• Users to stop creating thread purely to deride or post negatives about specific players.
  
• Stop creating endless threads which raise issues that are a thinly-disguised attempt to 'prove' one point or another that has already been debated to death. Please be happy that you believe it and not be so desparate to endlessly 'prove' it to everyone else, or to 'prove' that posters you dislike are wrong.
  
• Users to stop the indignation every time someone says the slightest negative thing about their favourite player.
  
• Users to stop going on about how they are always right and letting their dislike of players and their fans colour their posts.
  
• Not to make disparaging generalisations of other groups of posters/fans of other players
  
• To treat all posters equally regardless of differences of opinion and not to retort in kind if one poster transgresses the behaviour required for a harmonious forum.
  

You may recognise traits of other posters in the above list. However, this is not a name and shame exercise, anybody who says 'x point applies to y user' will receive a 2 day ban without warning or notification.

Genuine question.

Do you not feel the listed 'required changes' contradicts the whole 'free and open forum' message?

Don't get me wrong many are guilty (I will raise my hand as one of the posters) of frustration and utter contempt to rather pointless and meaningless threads or posts.

It is difficult to streamline a culture change among posters that will ignore this gesture and observation the Admin team have made. For the changes you require to work you need an autocratic approach because that is what it takes. Tedious I know, but that is the only way it will work.

Posters will view this thread and will want to be on board, however I can guarantee a poster within 2-3 days of this will post the sort of article that 606V2 wants to move away from.

I think JHM and LF do a sterling jobs as mods and speaking from experience as a mod I cannot tell you how de-moralising and de-motivating it is that people are petty enough to draft articles with the intent to annoy others despite much of their views contradicting their overall view of the sport.

Tennis is a fantastic sport and despite having some awful posters on here, but there are also some fantastic posters on here too.

I am fully behind the message of this thread for the good of the forum, though I think you might have problems getting others to get behind this too.

Just as it's important that discussions are conducted courteously and genuinely, it's also important not to get too worked up , either, if some topics engender more heat than others.
Visitors to the site can cherry pick what they want to get involved in and you can soon duck out of a topic if it looks like it aint going anywhere.
However, if it's the case that people are being actually turned off and are deserting the tennis site due to not liking what they are seeing , then that's a pity. I enjoy this site even if I'm not on it as much as I'd like. It would be a great shame if it no longer existed. Let's ensure that does not happen.

PS - posted this before LKV2's heartily-endorsable remarks above.

I would like to confirm that the above post was made in consultation with JHM and LF and is in addition to the excellent work they carry out.

LK, the constraints in my post isn't what we want for 606v2. However, as a team we feel that something needs to be done and it was felt that this was the fairest option. We hope that users do not resort to past behaivours, but if they do then they have received fair warning and will not be able to complain if further action is taken against them.

sirfredperry, you are correct in that users can choose what threads to post in. We have asked for people not to respond in kind to posts that go against the spirit of the forum, as well as not taking criticism of favourite players as a personal insult.

LK, imagine a 'free and open forum' that consisted only of hostility and animosity because that was the only way the (hypothetical) posters chose to post.
The Admins would not be obliged to keep that forum open. They are not obliged to keep any forum open, or to keep any particular poster or post on the forum - 606v2 is not a public service. It proceeds according to their wishes, as to the type of forum they want to run.

As such, perhaps posters occasionally need to consider the interests of the forum as opposed to their sole interests.

IMHO, too many posters leave (and who knows how many others don't join) because far too often the tone of the forum, far from increasing one's enjoyment of tennis, sucks the joy out of it.

Agree with all sentiments expressed and can see why Admin have flagged this.

The key issue we have in tennis is that the sport has been utterly dominated by 4 tennis players for 3-4 years now. That has led to discussions becoming very polarised and not revolving around much else except tedious eras debates fuelled by a desire to prove the results of one dominant player have more value than the results of another dominant. We have to try to ensure everything isn't skewed by 4 players...

I would like to see a broader range of topics discussed and its good to see things about racquets, LTA and other players too. There are other forums members are aware of where its open house to slate, openly accuse players of doing whatever and speak to fellow posters in whatever style is deemed appropriate. Fair enough if they want that type of forum but I'm sure most posters (and Admin of course) don't want 606V2 to go down that route. Nor do we want members to feel they cannot or do not want to comment.

At times the forum has had the general tone of sarcasm, cynicism and back-biting and its easy to get sucked into that culture because it becomes all pervasive. We all need to be part of the change and just be downright and basically more friendlier to each other a lot of the time. We should recognise we're tennis fans first and foremost.

There is an American based tennis forum that members will be aware of where many different types of topics are discussed - we need more of that type of approach here to engage genuine tennis fans and drown out the tedious repetitive and negative stuff that oddly enough became an issue around this same time last year. However, I will caveat that the dominance of Djokovic, Nadal, Murray and Federer does mean we will talk about those guys disproportionately - but we don't have to discuss the same things all the time.

Agree, it would be a shame if this section was closed down...its in our hands to ensure it doesn't.

JHM,

Take MTL for example. They have a rather no-nonsense approach to problematic posters or those they know will bring a negative vibe and attitude to the website. I will be blunt. For too long 606V2 have not touched posters (only in extreme cases) who have been problematic to the forum because of being fair and impartial. Whilst that is good, the posters in question abuse that privilege and continued to use articles/posts to create a bad vibe.

I don't want this section to close down because it isn't a bad forum.

Weed out the bad eggs who are persistant offenders (If I am one of them, so be it I will accept any decision). There are posters on other forums who use this one who are much more respectful there than they are here and that I find puzzling.

I don't think we are losing posters by the bundle, I just think those who were frequent posters choose to post less and less.

There are too many good posters on here that don't deserve to 'uproot' so to speak because of a few who try to ruin it. Do away with the problematic posters and start a fresh.

I will respect any wishes of the admin even if it resulted in me being culled too

LK, this thread and the OP from Enforcer is an attempt to get posters to evaluate for themselves whether or not they are persistent offenders, and if they contribute positively or negatively to the forum - and to modify their posts according to any decisions they reach about themselves, and to what the Admins have requested.

I realise that is a bleeding-heart, liberal, commie-pinko, granola-crunching, tree-hugger approach, but it is only the first step.

I honestly don't get what exactly is so terrible that has been going on here that such intervention is needed. Is an era debate such an abomination that it requires notices and bans? Again, I like this site, I like Julius and LF and they do a good job, but this to me seems a bit overboard. Again, it isn't my site you guys are free to do whatever you like with it, but I thought encouraging open debate was what it was all about and having a good time. If anything this has been one of the most well behaved periods in the history of the site. Look at the threads on display it isn't like every debate, or the majority is slagging players or fans, and or discussions of eras.

I mean we have had the addition of new posters of quality, good threads, few if any arguments; if anything the site is more civil and diverse than it has ever been and this seems to be throwing cold water on the debate.

legendkillarV2. This may be off topic but I have to say that I think MTL is one of the most nasty forums around. It has pages and pages of posts that are little more than sneering insults at other posters with zero tennis content. I think 606v2 in contrast is usually quite pleasant. Of course a few of us are quite passionate and sensitive but that's par for the course.

To put my two pence in part of the problem is that there are so few of us and we all sort of know each others views too well. I wonder with a name like "606v2" that is not relevant to the present how anyone new will find us?

lydian. That American site is great but it does also have a "nastiness" problem. This little place could never compete with it in terms of content and number of posters

Of course I agree with the general points made but policing this will be well nigh impossible. Stuff like era debates, value of slams etc will always crop up and are about tennis but once topics like these are under way they generally degenerate into heated exchanges and posters falling out with each other. I run a forum and I know how well nigh impossible it is to ban discussions on certain subjects. The best of luck to you on this.

hawkeye wrote:legendkillarV2. This may be off topic but I have to say that I think MTL is one of the most nasty forums around. It has pages and pages of posts that are little more than sneering insults at other posters with zero tennis content.

There are some nasty posters. Many are alright though.

Likewise LK for all I know I'm one of the problem posters too given my views on technology and surface slowing.

Yes HE, agree MTL can be a nasty place at times...I've seen some of the vitriol there...and the posters involved at BBC606 before that. Likewise TT has a wide range but large posting population...my point is just to increase width of topics.

BUT...all that said we surely have to be careful not to either go too overboard, or overstate matters too far. There have been some repetitive subjects but the level of arguing isn't as bad as its been before. Where arguments are cropping out within repetitive threads quick action needs to be done to nip these things in the bud by locking threads.

Compared to other tennis forums this place is pretty civilised...perhaps LF would like to comment on that being a member of quite a few?

legendkillarV2. This may be off topic but I have to say that I think MTL is one of the most nasty forums around. It has pages and pages of posts that are little more than sneering insults at other posters with zero tennis content. I think 606v2 in contrast is usually quite pleasant. Of course a few of us are quite passionate and sensitive but that's par for the course.

HE I think MTL is actually a tolerant place. Yes few are subject to the rule, but you find near to zero 'anti-anti player' articles or the riddle of GOAT articles.

I think if we can start there as one of the main issues here, maybe that will steer the tennis section of 606V2 as more peaceful forum to be on.

Well its good some action are being taken for tennis section to remain healthy and active, but it won't be as easy as its listed here, its primarily the duty of the posters involved to create a friendly environment where by everybody can discuss and have fun.

I don't think so one or two guys are guilty, the whole tennis forum should take responsibility to bring in quality posts within our section, I personally commit that I will be more responsible and give my best for the forum.

Bakkies botha is now an admin on 606v2?

Lydian makes a good point about the effect of polarisation of support for a few dominant players.

On another note, the tennis board always needs a slam or a run of significant tournaments and the story of the season to start asserting itself in order to get going. Aus Open to IW is usually a pretty fallow period - I expect things will pick up a bit from here on in (although Miami is set to be more decaffeinated than usual).

In the meantime, and whilst appreciating all that moderators do and agreeing that if people in life would be more civilised it would be better, I think that the main things everyone might do are grow thicker skins, leave irritating posts unresponded to, and if they want to talk tennis start fresh threads. I don't see how weeding out 'bad eggs' is going to work, especially since some posters are a wee bit Jekyll & Hyde but still have good contributions to make in lucid moments. As others have said, this is only going to work from bottom up, not top down.

I have found this forum on the whole to be a friendly place to be. For posters such as me who, not as knowledgeable about the technicalities of the sport, still feel welcome and able to voice my views and knowledge about players, rather than the sport they play. It is, for some of us, a sanctuary, a place to go when there is no one else to speak to about the sport I have loved for so many years. Hopefully being treated with respect and acknowledge that I, purely as a spectator, over the years have learned much from watching the sport and gleaning an inordinate amount of knowledge from those of you who know so much more than me. and my knowledge of many of the players present and past. For that I thank you for your tolerance.

barry, I recognise that thicker skins will help (as a Mod you need one )
but it would be preferable IMO if posters were simnply to assume that not everyone has as thick a skin as their own and post accordingly - I suspect that's the approach people would take to 'real life' discussions.
Of course, we all transgress even our own ideals at times, and obviously I'm no exception, and I regret those occasions. That's else something we can also bear in mind about others - we all make mistakes and hope to be treated sympathetically when we do. Thus it shouldn't be too hard to treat other's mistakes (as we perceive them) sympathetically.

Haddie-nuff wrote:I have found this forum on the whole to be a friendly place to be. For posters such as me who, not as knowledgeable about the technicalities of the sport, still feel welcome and able to voice my views and knowledge about players, rather than the sport they play. It is, for some of us, a sanctuary, a place to go when there is no one else to speak to about the sport I have loved for so many years. Hopefully being treated with respect and acknowledge that I, purely as a spectator, over the years have learned much from watching the sport and gleaning an inordinate amount of knowledge from those of you who know so much more than me. and my knowledge of many of the players present and past. For that I thank you for your tolerance.

That is what has left me scratching my head because it seems to me the tennis forum is more peaceable than most other forums and that this may be one of the most peace loving periods in the history of the forum. So I guess I don't understand the sudden action of the moderators or management of the site. But I have said my piece on it.

I can say that although the post appears sudden, the thinking behind it is not sudden. Today is just the day it got posted.

While I think the cricket forum has less petty arguments, I must say that I feel that this is still a more tolerant place than the original 666

Not even close to old 606 in hostility I agree with that kingraf.

I'd just like to add to the praise of LF and JHM because of the good work they do. Keep it up

I underatand where mods are coming from, but I think petty arguments are part and parcel of sports fans.

"I honestly don't get what exactly is so terrible that has been going on here that such intervention is needed. Is an era debate such an abomination that it requires notices and bans?"


"That is what has left me scratching my head because it seems to me the tennis forum is more peaceable than most other forums and that this may be one of the most peace loving periods in the history of the forum."


I have to agree with Socal here, especially his 2 comments above, which this eloquently captures my own thoughts. This looks a bit heavy handed to me. I was taken a little surprised by it. Just on the match thread the other day I was just thinking how fair spirited it was.

Although, Socal, you have to admit you have been one of the more polarised posters and your "debates" with Bogbrush was, for a while, one of the major negative features of the forum.

If this article achieves its aims then fair enough. Would it help to put certain posters who are polarised onto a system of having to have their articles checked by moderators before posting? Not sure if you have the technology for this though.

This is a more pleasant place than MTL by the way. Here someone may attack your argument or a player but they don't just attack you without even having a tennis discussion. On MFL there are a few trolls that just insult people for nothing, due to petty grudges. And they are established members, not just WUMs dropping in. The worst posters of MTL are much worse than the worst here and I would agree with Hawkeye.

By the way, you do realise MTL is an anti-Nadal forum? Not claiming that that's what the founders believe, nor that there are not a few thick-skinnned Nadal fans there, but there is a core there of at least a few that post blatantly anti Nadal articles and comments which are not only not moderated, but not even defended by other members. There is some serious bitter hatred on there that is sad and kind of scary. v2 is reasonably well balanced - somewhat pro Federer, but then he is a popular player.

Let me read it all back and see if I have any further comment.

I have a few more comments.

1. I disagree with "overall hostile and unfriendly".
2. Any hint of closing the section seems to be really over the top.
3. Lydian, perhaps one of the problems with discussion about racquets and so on is that a lot us don't have much to contribute. I don't, for example, know what a Western grip actually means. But maybe some of us could learn from some of your threads.
4. 606 was worse, agree with that. On present state (rather than entire history) I would say we have done well in capturing some of the cream of 606 and have a lot less wumming and perhaps less general nastiness.
5. True, MTL don't have many who is the GOAT articles and they are kind of above that and more adult in a way in that respect. Then again, at times there is no real discussion on there at all, it is very sterile, just the excellent suicide threads and chat threads and not much else going on.
6. It is true that many of the threads are just one part of a long "who is the greatest" argument. We could do with less of these. Debatable to what extent we should crack down on them, and how, but I don't feel strongly about it either way. Certainly think asking others to stop it is worth a try as a first step.

Great post Henman Bill, I disagree with one thing you brought about polarizing posters pre screen their posts and threads. I wouldn't post here if this was the case. As for me being polarizing I certainly do not shy from controversy but in my defense for a long period of time I was ridiculed and attacked with whole threads dedicated to wind me up and insult me yet I did nothing. When I decided to respond I responded with extreme prejudice. But that was many, many months ago. Since then I have even apologized to several posters and put bed legitimate grievances I felt I had.

But frankly, this does strike me as heavy handed, I think there is a lot more right with the forum then wrong with the forum. And I still find it perplexing that era debates are seen as so vile and repetive, I mean if a goat debate is so terrible why did the site promote a cross sport GOAT debate? Why is it that era debates attract hundreds of posts and I am not making the majority of he posts on those threads it isn't like I am discussing with myself or that amritia was talking to himself.

I am still perplexed at this warning and the cryptic PM I received. Arguments that take place are for the most part resolved between the posters and in short order now. The days of the thousand post war between me and BB and other federer supporters have been done and dusted for months. This seems to be counter productive as some posters feel insulted and feel that the eye of big brother is on them.

I think that this warning may have been warranted at times in the past, but in my personal opinion, we've just come off one of the most enjoyable tournaments on the forum, a period where the majority seemed to actually be watching the tennis, commenting on the good, the bad and the indifferent.

To try and take this from the moderators/Enforcer point of view: As explained above the moderators and owners have thought about this for a while, and this is a longer term perspective, and just happened to post at an innoportune moment. Perhaps if we take their warning to mean "don't return to what you were doing some weeks/months/years ago" it might make more sense.

HB, it is a cumulative effect of things from the recent past to the not-so-recent past. Not one single issue, poster, thread etc.
Unless you were to read each thread/post the cumulative effect might not add up the same way. Also, things that might easily be dismissed/ignored as a poster might need further consideration as a Mod/Admin.
Personally I try to picture how it would look to an outsider, unfamiliar with the online personalities of our posters.

It's possible that today was not the best day to post, but it's actually quite difficult to get everyone involved in the same virtual 'room', so to speak, in order to agree on what is to be said.

Any message from the Admins can come across as heavy-handed because a) of their status and b) it must be worded so as to be taken seriously, which it should be.

Another way of thinking of it is this - in the first instance every poster is being asked to look at what they post and ask themselves if this is genuinely the most positive way they themselves can contribute to the forum, regardless of how others may post.

I like talking about "who is the best" and why they are so. The more detailed the discussion the better... just saying. I think Federer and Nadal are pretty close but if push comes to shove then Nadal may have the edge

So we can't wind people up anymore?!

If anyone is seriously taking the tennis banter at face value, they need to re-assess themselvees!

We see the same arguments every day in the tennis section about weak era's, steroids, the top 4 etc and then we have some articles and comments poking fun at one of the players for a laugh, I think it's these posters that ruin the forum more than writing trash about a particular player.

I have to agree with others that today's messages seems somewhat out of the blue and hence could be seen as abit heavy handed. I'm not particularly aware the forum was having major issues to be honest, certainly compared to other times in spring 2012.

I wonder what has been the spark that flared this...it's certainly now a shame to now see Red/Amritia leave out of this who adds a passion for tennis and interesting posts even if we all don't agree with all of her points from time to time. For sure we can all get along better but let's not fan flames either. I also agree with others that tennis is just starting to get going as we enter the first Masters of the season and work towards the French Open...the lean opening months often open up the age old era and GOAT debates, a recurrent tennis theme. Anyway, this flare up today is unexpected to me but I understand the point we can all get along better.

Oh my god Lydian agrees with me and I agree with Josiah, Julius you did unite us with this thread, nothing like bringing the inmates together like a beef with the warden!!!

socal, you and lydian should come over to my place for dinner - you could have beef with the warden.

Josiah, there's nothing wrong with a bit of creative light-hearted wumming designed to make people laugh. Even Spaghetti-Hans got away with that.
But not wumming intended purely to upset/annoy other posters - what's the point in, or benefit of that?
Obviously what constitutes that type of wumming is a judgement call and unfortunately for all concerned it might end up being me that does the judging. The cleverer and funnier, the more likely you are to get away with it.

JuliusHMarx wrote:socal, you and lydian should come over to my place for dinner - you could have beef with the warden.

Attica! attica! attica! I just set fire to my mattresse and tossed it out my condo. Wait what am I going to sleep on tonight?

If the house is painted and pretty from outside, but has constant skirmishes and ambushes lying in wait for an unwary poster inside, with utensils being thrown willy-nilly, it is a shock to someone's sensibilities with such a stark contrast.

One poster may dislike a player, while someone else has a beef with another (or pasta y gambas or a bagful of Lindts or a Head or racquets), but in the end, Tennis gives us countless hours of entertainment, and many nuances to discuss. In some cases, a loss of a favourite player also allows a fan to seek a supporting shoulder.

The GOAT rewards on v2 provided the diaspora from many sports to come together and have a good outing.

Live and Let Live. Diversity of the Gene pool (and the discussion pool) is always welcome, and a definite sign of vibrancy.

@HB.. There is always something new to learn.

It is a bliddy marvellous sport, let us reflect it's glories in our discussions as well.

I will miss Fedal in Miami. I hope Del Potro continues his promises from IW. Hopefully the other GranPa - Haas - shows glimpses of his past glories. Perhaps Dolgopolov will do better than IW like Matosevic did at Memphis. And Energiser Bunny - Ferrer - will be calmer than IW. Perhaps the Moaners
will have something to celebrate something other than a new forum.

Where are you Jubba?

Lots o' Tennis to be played.

Very bizarre post. This is probably one of the most friendly forums i have seen. I would suggest that this type of thread is far more likely to lead to members not being as keen to post than the GOAT/weak era type articles which get posted from time to time. Unfortunately, it looks heavy-handed and completely out of touch with the generally friendly interaction within the forum. It strikes me that you are in grave danger of throwing out the baby with the bath-water if you seek to sanitise the site as is being suggested. As a relatively occasional poster, my view is that this site will thrive if it continues to generate the excellent debate currently enjoyed. It will not continue to do well if people are scared to post on topics which interest them for fear it could lead to the forum being temporarily closed. I would strongly suggest that the assessment set out in the article is re-considered and common sense prevails.

Born, which of the bullet points in particular do you disagree with?

For example, just to take the first point - do you think that a new thread raised specifically to raise negative points about a particular player makes the forum a better place?
Or that a one-line post in a thread that simply insults a player and/or his fans benefits the forum?

The only problem with this message is that we don't have personal feedback about our own standard of posting.

I, for instance, am well known as opinionated and brilliant but I can imagine that some may feel intimidated by the bright shining light of my presence and for all I know I could be amongst those marked for "special attention".

Perhaps - and this I mean quite seriously - JHM or LF could drop me and others a line just helping us know where we are on the scale of things.

By the way - to pick up on a point lydian made - perhaps part of the problem is that unless you're turned on by specific personalities the sport has become so boring, with nothing happening except the same few names fighting it out event after event, that there's nothing to do but bicker about that very subject. Just a thought.

bogbrush wrote:

I, for instance, am well known as opinionated and brilliant but I can imagine that some may feel intimidated by the bright shining light of my presence and for all I know I could be amongst those marked for "special attention".

BB
I think you missed out 'modest and humble' from your self-description.

As someone who doesn't post that much on this board, I do have some sympathy with what the moderators are trying to do here - while there is a high proportion of good quality discussion (and welcome back Cogen with Points Spy ), there are certain posters whose threads I tend to ignore because the threads are just spiteful wind-ups (nothing wrong with a bit of WUMming, but it has to be witty - some on the rugby board have it spot on, while others miss the mark by a country mile).

In my opinion, I think really all that is needed is for posters to think 'am I posting this comment simply to get a rise out of someone?'. If the answer to this is yes, then chances are you shouldn't be posting it.

Although of course, it can be a humourous rise. We don't want sterility on here, nor do we want hostility. Humour is often the bridge between the two polar ends - if posters say something negative about another poster without adding a little humour then yes its literally just designed to wind up, but if a little intellectual or satirical humour can be slotted in then it changes the dynamic of the post completely.

After all, all the best humour takes the "mickey" out of someone...but when its done well and the intent behind is clearly humour then it adds to the personality of the place. For example, I'm sure we all used to love AIRs posts on the old 606 ... Swiss Shanker and the like... we actually need more of that satirical player humour to be frank. I'd actually prefer to read that type of stuff at times rather than just dry facts and figures about the Open Era...we need a mix...and that comes with a mix of posters. If we say only dry discussion is allowed where fun can never be poked at players or posters from time to time then this place will fizzle out anyway.

Likewise to BB, I don't know if I'm amongst those this thread is actually directed at ... socal and I disagree on a fair few things, albeit cordially, but it can get repetitive if we're not careful. Red/Amritia seems to be a casualty of the discussions on Sunday, and that's a shame if that's what has caused this flare up and thread. We don't want to be losing posters like that and I actually respectfully implore JHM/LF/Admin to reach out to Amritia and ask her to stay.

Above all, I don't actually think too much is wrong with this place. If you want to see "wildwest" posting with scant regard for who's offended and blatant, tantamount libellous finger-pointing at one player in particular then look no further than the site setup by ex-members of this place!

BB...you left out the term 'highly patriotic' from your self-description.
I know you'll be upset by that omission

lydian wrote:Although of course, it can be a humourous rise. We don't want sterility on here, nor do we want hostility. Humour is often the bridge between the two polar ends - if posters say something negative about another poster without adding a little humour then yes its literally just designed to wind up, but if a little intellectual or satirical humour can be slotted in then it changes the dynamic of the post completely.

lydian, you'll agree, I hope, that none of the points raised by Enforcer prevent humour, satire and a bit of good-natured ribbing.
But it often works because we 'know' each other and sometimes, from an outsider's viewpoint it can be off-putting, if not done well. Not necessarily something posters need to consider, but something the Admin team does.

No-one is saying humour should be prevented. What I'm stressing is that we might forget humour is ok when considering not to offend anyone.

One of the lines that has probably raised interest is "If things don't change there are several members who could be removed from the site" ... many of the posters that have subsequently replied are wondering if they're one of "several" offenders given that its clearly not just 1 person that's seen to be causing the issue (whatever the issue has been).

As you can see, in the wake of that BB now wonders if its been him, LK too and myself as well. Many others feel the warning is a surprise and comes somewhat out of the blue given the tennis section has been pretty busy and relatively amicable of late. Then we see Red/Amritia express a wish to leave as the dust settles.

Lets move on but you also have to acknowledge many people have been scratching their proverbial heads at this thread.

Lydian

I agree that there's nothing wrong with a bit of humour - that really wasn't what I meant. For me the problem is more the comments, and in particular the new threads that are started simply to push the buttons of fans of certain players.

As an aside, I've always been rather surprised at just how much vociferous 'fandom' there is on this forum and its 666 precursor - tennis doesn't have the same tribal nature as football or rugby, and while I can understand why many contributors want Murray to be successful (it is a British-based forum after all), the open hostility to players other than the one(s) you support does seem surprising. I expected most contributors to be primarily fans of the sport in general, and while having favourites (for reasons of style, personality or because they were the first player you saw live at a tournament) is natural, the level of partiality does surprise.

Good points but to be honest DH I've never seen a tennis forum that isn't tribal, and I've seen quite a few. Tennis is more tribal than you think because people tend to associate themselves with a certain type of player - and we have 4 top players currently with different styles and persona's.

Tribal posters do squeeze out the less-tribal, general fans from posting as a) they're generally keener at posting and b) often shout people down who disagree and scare off anyone who might otherwise make a point. Tennis is also a very stats-heavy sport as its "easy" to compare results across the ages and then argue about them. So these forums often end up with the tribal mix left as main posters. This does need balancing more for sure...we need posters of all types...and threads likewise...plus we need to be circumspect in what we post. We also need the moderators to be more active in stopping repetition happening - this was my beef in early 2012 to be honest.

However, I again point to the fact that tennis is dominated - probably like no other sport - by 4 guys who are head and shoulders above the rest and its been like this for years now. Total top 4 domination has undoubtedly squeezed interest in other areas of the game. As mentioned above they're all very different characters too so forums see discussion fall around these 4 players, why they're better in some areas than others and yes to be frank it is getting tedious. As much as I'm a Nadal fan I don't want to discuss him all the time or see him being attacked for, at the end of the day, being successful...neither do others about Federer, Djokovic, etc. But in tennis our fayre to dine on has been narrowed.

There is also some legacy-style posting here from the old 606...not quite as much since a few members left in 2012 but still a bit. The culture of the old 606 got very combative and negative towards the end, I know I stopped posting there months before it shut down. We just need to be more friendly and cohesive, with even handed input and moderation on top. But on balance I don't think its too bad.

Above all what we really need is for more people to discuss new things ... the forum has got itself into a little bit of a rut but its understandable when its the early part of the year and look at who has won 31 out of the last 32 slams and 60 out of the last 73 Masters going back to start of 2005 ... the top 4!!! I don't have the answers...we just need to keep discussing different things, with a sense of humour thrown in and remember we're all tennis fans first and foremost.

Hopefully something different will happen this year on the ATP tour to inject something else we can discuss - Delpo at IW for a start. If the tribal side can be toned down we might attract new posters who wish to discuss tennis in general - gear, countries, retired players, LTA, etc, etc...but lets not forget discussion around the top 4 will also continue as they'll be contesting nearly all the finals. Variety is the spice. Anyway, I've said my piece, I'll shut up for a while.

Great to see this issue being dealt with, thanks for the hard work by all involved, and I look forward to "checking in" more often and contributing more, if this aim is achieved. Sorry it came to it, but well handled to make this thread, and try to do something about it.

Thank you yloponom68.
I have been made aware of 606v2 members avoiding the tennis section (and, I would guess, new members not joining) for the issues addressed in the OP. It's one of the main reasons for the thread.