To All Users of the Tennis Section - Please Read

First topic message reminder :

To all users of the Tennis board,

The Admin Team feels that the overall hostile and unfriendly tone of tennis section is currently detrimental to 606v2 as a whole and that all posters should honestly question whether their posts bring anything positive and healthy to the forum. We would like to emphasise that it is not about rule-breaking but about creating a more friendly, healthy environment that more posters would want to be involved in rather than leave.

If things don't change there are several members who could be removed from the site or the section could be temporarily (at first) closed.

Please take account of the following and if any of the listed changes apply to your posts, please amend your posting style immediately. This is an open warning and any further transgressions will be dealt with accordingly.

The problem isn't rule-breaking, it's the overall negativity of the forum and the endless circular debates to 'prove' one point of contention is correct, or one player is better/worse - often aimed specifically at the expense of other posters. Eventually the posters who post loudest and longest 'win' and the others disappear from the forum, because it has ceased to hold any enjoyment for them. Not from losing the argument, but from the hostility and animosity of the other posters.

It seems most threads are either created for the purposes of criticism and/or battle, or else hi-jacked into a battle.
It's no wonder outsiders look at the tennis forum and think there is more than the fair share of nutjobs on there (as one poster put it on the GOAT thread).

The list of changes that are required from certain posters are:

• Users to stop creating thread purely to deride or post negatives about specific players.
  
• Stop creating endless threads which raise issues that are a thinly-disguised attempt to 'prove' one point or another that has already been debated to death. Please be happy that you believe it and not be so desparate to endlessly 'prove' it to everyone else, or to 'prove' that posters you dislike are wrong.
  
• Users to stop the indignation every time someone says the slightest negative thing about their favourite player.
  
• Users to stop going on about how they are always right and letting their dislike of players and their fans colour their posts.
  
• Not to make disparaging generalisations of other groups of posters/fans of other players
  
• To treat all posters equally regardless of differences of opinion and not to retort in kind if one poster transgresses the behaviour required for a harmonious forum.
  

You may recognise traits of other posters in the above list. However, this is not a name and shame exercise, anybody who says 'x point applies to y user' will receive a 2 day ban without warning or notification.

As a relative newbie and infrequent poster, I certainly see the reasons behind the article - although they are quite harshly expressed.

I was also surprised at the responses; how posters were feeling quite indignant about it - but I guess if you are posting a lot when you might feel this is a criticism of your input, which I'm sure for the most part it is not.

On several occasions I have looked at topics being discussed and pretty much all active thread contained essential the same era/whose slams were the hardest discussions. That's fine every once in a while or if done with a fresh perspective, but otherwise appear very tedious and not something I'd want to get involved in, especially when the discussion is seemingly endless.

So the way I read the article was it would be much appreciated if people would not keep dragging threads down that route. But as I said, it is maybe harshly put.

One other thing I'd like to mention is discussion about other forums. I understand that some former posters from here have set up another forum, and many people are members there or other tennis forums. However, I find it really off-putting when people bring discussions from other forums on here. I don't mean this thread specifically as obvious it's relevant to discuss the tone that you want here to compare to others, but on others threads I've seen discussion along the lines of "I saw what you said behind my back/about poster x on y forum blah, blah". In my opinion, if you want to talk about posts you've seen elsewhere then that should be done elsewhere, and the mods should delete that type of post.

I have to echo what born slippy is saying here it just came off to me as a subtle way of saying to me that your thread topics are killing the site and making it hostile. But yet the majority of posters are saying that is not the case. So why now when serious efforts have been made by the individuals on this site to quell it on their own without making people feel unappreciated and unwanted. I don't want hostility but I also don't want a forum that tastes like hospital food with everyone speaking about tennis like freaking UN diplomats. A little passion is a good thing as long as we maintain respect. But the problem I have is with the idea of restricting certain topics because fans of that player don't like it. As long as behavior is not slanderous and there is no name calling between posters what is wrong with it.

TBH socal, I think you've misunderstood and misrepresented what the OP is about to such a great extent that I genuinely don't know how to reply. It would take me all day to try to clear up the misconceptions.

It is interesting to note that a number of less regular posters appreciate what we are trying to do, which is simply to improve the forum as a whole. I trust that our more frequent posters, who perhaps are more used to the forum, and 'know' others posters better, don't disregard the views of these posters as somehow less important than their own.

I would suggest that these less regular posters have a better idea about what would attract them to the forum than our mainstays.

The relatively small changes that are being asked for (basically the things that posters have already actually complained about) will actually make the forum more welcoming to such people.

I read it in the same way as Socal though Julius. Does the second bullet point essentially ban any "era" thread?

This is the last I will say on this but the problem in my view is with the tone of this article, not the reaction to it. Ironically, it's the only out and out negative article I've read recently. It makes no positive comment and must be very dispiriting to read for those regular posters who have contributed to the 100 or so articles commented on in the last month only to be told, seemingly out of the blue, that they have created a negative atmosphere sufficient for the admins to be considering closing the site.

Anyway, enough on this. Tennis starts again shortly and hopefully the right balance on the forum can be found.

Julius, I think I said my piece on this. I will concede at times threads have moved off topic to era or goat issues. But the part about hostility, I have not seen that situation here for a couple of months. New posters being chased away, we have had a great deal of new posters coming aboard, Yvonne makes a good post here and she is another quality new poster.


We are incredibly welcoming to new posters. I make it a point to respond to any new poster I see and I have had new posters tell me that they enjoy my posts. I want to put this issue to bed but why do this post now, why when me and federer fans were in a full fledged war of words and it was constant jibes and attacks was no effort made to quell it, why was the section never threatened with complete deletion then it was 10 times more hostile? The timing is very suspicious to me? And some of the changes that are being said are needed I think will quell the free expression of legitimate ideas and discussion.

I hope you don't take this personally, because you do thankless job for no money. And I have enjoyed a lot of laughs and posts with you. But I think this thread was a big mistake, very annoying, and damaging long term to the site. You guys disagree that is fine, it is your site, but this is not an encouraging signal for the future.

Can we take a poll and see who it is that these bullet points 1, 2, and 4, are directed at, didn't you all think off the bat think Socal, or Socal in conjunction with possibly a couple of other posters? But certainly I would be considered one of the grievous offenders of these non-crimes listed in these bullet points. I don't feel like my contributions to this site deserved public shaming, I am not ashamed of my conduct, I have nothing to be ashamed of.

hawkeye wrote:Some of my best friends are legendkillerV2, CaledonianCraig, bogbrush, socal1976 etc but that doesn't mean I agree with their views. Sometimes I think they may have got things a little wrong...

That is sweet of you hawk, the feeling is mutual.

Thought I would just add some things before the day gets away from me.

In reference to Red's e-mail and the point I made on MTL. Red I went to MTL and I didn't have any issues with any posters there. Yes some are very strong in views and perceptions of posters, but hell if yummymummy can survive there, anyone can. I don't post there because of the site set up and my ongoing war with technology and the reluctance to accept change!

This forum isn't bad. I see the points Born made and whilst the bullet points don't explicitly forbid certain topics, it does hint towards that.

The thing is lately certain threads have been dogged down with pedantic and petulant arguing and I am amazed posters had the energy and patience to engage pages and pages of it. Hell I gave up after 5 posts! Posters were in a desparate bid to prove their point 'correct' alright it might not be fact, but the message was my opinion is the one which holds the most substance in context. For me what made the era thread so frustrating was Red eventually conceding what I said that Slams were individually unique and agreed with that point despite the likes of JHM, LF, lydian and BB making the exact same point which could've saved people time and posts!

606V2 is becoming like the old 606. The same old player bashing threads and same player praising threads. It does make this place look very limited in tennis knowledge if that is what we as a forum strive to be. Hell I have tried racquet discussions and even touched on tennis development in another country. You know this place is boring when BB starts a WTA thread

The generalisation of this section is quite un-informed and off the mark. I recall one special needs poster who claimed 'Federer fans are Man Utd fans' in the GOAT thread. With our favourite and disliked players we know their strengths and weaknesses. Last year I was always on Murray's case and this year I have given it a break. No it wasn't a new years resolution, but I wasn't going to add anything else different that I hadn't already considered.

Fresh threads and new insight doesn't just come with new posters or posters from other sections. It comes from us on this forum to bring fresh new ways of viewing the sport and also maybe consider other stories in the tennis world. It isn't just about Federer, Nadal, Djokovic or Murray. There are many other stories out there.

The Era discussion has been done to death. It is like corpse that has been humped over centuries. Let's move on. No-one is ever going to hold the same view and agree on everyone's views. Let's take a proactive view. Yes the same players at the top doesn't help things, but they are not the only players in the sport. It takes 128 players to make a Slam tournament, not 4.

There is some sound knowledge on here. Tenez for all his faults has a vast array of knowledge on the sport. Let's not waste the knowledge people have and encourage the current crop of posters to bring new thoughts and views on the sport to the forum.

Also I was touched by Dave's kind message of friendship

Born Slippy wrote:I read it in the same way as Socal though Julius. Does the second bullet point essentially ban any "era" thread?

No, but as Yvonne said "On several occasions I have looked at topics being discussed and pretty much all active thread contained essential the same era/whose slams were the hardest discussions. That's fine every once in a while or if done with a fresh perspective, but otherwise appear very tedious....."

We happen to agree with that. So if one long era debate has just petered out, why start another one straight away, or hi-jack another thread to divert it into another era debate? The problem is that this happens too often. Is it good for the forum or bad for the forum - The Admins and Mods have discussed it and we think it's bad for the forum.

Amritia has said that she (I am told Amritia is a she) advised us to merge threads - I don't recall that, but I can see that there are times that it should have been done. However, I'd much rather you guys didn't create situations when that is neceassary. Surely the admission that threads need to be merged is a sign that posters have got things a bit wrong? It's not wrong to ask the Mods for help to make things better, and it's not wrong for the Mods to ask for help in return.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I can see one era thread in the last month amidst about 80 articles on all sorts of other topics. That doesn't strike me as unreasonable. Of course, its also been one of the most popular articles in terms of comments generated.

If other threads have been hijacked then that's obviously an issue and shouldn't be happening. I can't say that i've noticed it at any time recently though.

Not really my issue to be honest but I'd hate for the site to go down the pan because of heavy handed administration to deal with what is, at best, currently a minor issue on the site.

On the era topic I would say it grates with people as there is never ever a closure to it as it just goes round in circles with theories offered and left unproven as each of us have made up their mind on the topic. Now era topics are about tennis so personally don't have an issue with them though they can lead to fall-outs. I don't think era debates should be banned as those who do not like them or do not want to contribute then you ignore them. Perhaps any poster who wishes to start such a topic does it with a Warning Tag in the thread title? Or perhaps create a Dark Room (for want of a better name) akin to the seperate forum Nadal fans had merely for topics that admins and mods don't want cluttering up the main tennis forum.

A "Dark Room" for posters who appreciate one of the players in the GOAT conversation? What is this MTL?

I so want to say something but

Then say it HE it might get edited but what the heck !!!

I would cast my vote unequivocally against Dark Rooms, or forum offshoots or whatever, it's an awful idea (imho).

As for era threads, let's be really, really honest here; who thinks they are started because anyone actually gives a rats @r$e where Llleyton Hewitt ranks in the scheme of things, or who thinks they are started to promote or denigrate existing players? For God's sake if we can't be honest amongst ourslves at a moment like this then there's no hope. I vote they are the latter.

It is completely obvious they are all about making points related to Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray to push one or others achievements above the other. Totally and 100% obvious. If they were anything better than that we'd have loads of Laver v Becker era threads, but the only debate is early v late 2000's.

If the operators of the forum would rather see an end to this silly behaviour then fair enough, you have my backing. If members disagree then good for them but what's dishonest is to pretend that era threads are any kind of seeking of historical truth.

So LK, the person who is the voice of reason calls a certain poster "special needs" and we applaud his comments. Wow, you guys are shinning examples of curbing back the hostility. LK you are the biggest whiner on the site, you love MTL go freaking post there. I am done with this thread, and done with it all. Do what you like, I don't give a crap anymore.

The ridiculous thing about 'Era Threads' is that it seems we are, overwhelmingly, pretty tired of them as a forum... and yet we still take part in them. The last one went on for 9(!) pages and included contributions from virtually all the 'regulars'!

The problem could be eliminated if everyone who is sick of the subject just ignored the threads. That might be the best policy.

"Help" It's all gone dark! I was just going to say that this so called golden era is just gold plate... socal. Can you hear me?

Lk you may very well be right for the reasons behind the era debates but as sure as eggs are eggs the topic will continue to surface. They have been part and parcel of many tennis forums since the invention of them. My suggestions were merely ways for them to be conducted without impacting on the forum. I think the era thing is all pointless as I have said before but I see lots of pointless stuff posted without a word said about that.

HM Murdoch wrote:The ridiculous thing about 'Era Threads' is that it seems we are, overwhelmingly, pretty tired of them as a forum... and yet we still take part in them. The last one went on for 9(!) pages and included contributions from virtually all the 'regulars'!

The problem could be eliminated if everyone who is sick of the subject just ignored the threads. That might be the best policy.

I wish HM, but Mods are supposed to read the damn stuff (and then I always regret getting sucked in). Also, given the tone it usually ends up in, it looks bad to any potential new posters.
Theoretically an era debate is fine. We end up with era tempers, sniping, and back-biting. Then it stops for a bit, then starts all over again. Then it stops for a bit, then starts all over again. Then it....

The so-called 'era' debates degenerate into Fedalovicurray bashing threads with each corner becoming a defensive manned and bunkered by the respective fans.
Where is the creativity of posters?

I have yet to see an era thread discuss anything before 2000, wonder why?

LK tried with Racquet thread, there is a Lendl thread. There is a MIami thread that Silver did.

As I said at 4:24, the era threads are fraudulent. They are current top 4 fan fights. The forum would be improved for their absence.

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I hope not Lydian.

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Yes lydian, time is a great healer. It worked for me when I was considering my position here a year or two ago.

Apologies, I guess I havent really commented here for a while, I suppose theres really 2 reasons for that. The non relevant one is that my lifr has gotten pretty busy and I neglected this forum a bit for a while. The other one is essentially what this post is about, its that sometimes this place isnt that friendly to be on.
Its not as bad as 606 (thank) but things do get out of hand especially during the slams, when the most traffic comes. Those 2 weeks can be really unfriendly, the "locals" not soo much but I remember the AO this year, from the semis onwards it got quite uncomfortable here, player slating and all. In the end, it was that weekend which put me off for a bit, as people began to slate Murray for no reason, including degenerating his past achievements, putting gown to "luck" or "wind" which was not nice to hear as a fan, and was not really any sort of constructive opinion, it was winding up.

Other stuff, like we had a poster once who wished that Nadal would get crippled, who then proceeded to pick on and bully another poster who was quite incensed at this claim.
It ended up that poster recieving no punishment and the other being told off.

Its THOSE sorts of things that need harsher punishments, the tongue in cheek stuff which is the majority is fine, but im happy that the mods have had the guts to do this, most wouldn't.

Just to point out, all that stuff is the minority, but I can fully see how that would put people off, especially newcomers who are most likely to look here during the slams, when things can get a little bad.

falzy21 wrote:Apologies, I guess I havent really commented here for a while, I suppose theres really 2 reasons for that. The non relevant one is that my lifr has gotten pretty busy and I neglected this forum a bit for a while. The other one is essentially what this post is about, its that sometimes this place isnt that friendly to be on.
Its not as bad as 606 (thank) but things do get out of hand especially during the slams, when the most traffic comes. Those 2 weeks can be really unfriendly, the "locals" not soo much but I remember the AO this year, from the semis onwards it got quite uncomfortable here, player slating and all. In the end, it was that weekend which put me off for a bit, as people began to slate Murray for no reason, including degenerating his past achievements, putting gown to "luck" or "wind" which was not nice to hear as a fan, and was not really any sort of constructive opinion, it was winding up.

Other stuff, like we had a poster once who wished that Nadal would get crippled, who then proceeded to pick on and bully another poster who was quite incensed at this claim.
It ended up that poster recieving no punishment and the other being told off.

Its THOSE sorts of things that need harsher punishments, the tongue in cheek stuff which is the majority is fine, but im happy that the mods have had the guts to do this, most wouldn't.

Yes falzy "the wind" - I would have thought that in order to overcome this element one would require some additional skill, however if you are not a fan or dislike a particular player then these are the comments you have to expect.

The odd comment like this is "par for the course" and is common to most forums.

What I dislike is the continual denigration of particular players, which unfortunately happens on this forum and does not encourage people like yourself to post regularly!

Posters may also have an interest to learn and denigration of any player, that SL is referring to, can be a very strong deterrent for posters to dip their toes in water tainted by blood in the 'war zone'.

Infatuations with players are ephemeral as they walk through pages of Tennis History, but love of the sport is eternal.

I find the approach taken by the forum here disappointing. My two main issues with it are:

First (mostly just my personal preference):

Different people will prefer different types of discussions. Some will like heated discussions, while others prefer gentler talk. I personally like a bit of rowdiness on a forum, so I am worried that too much effort to clamp down on “negativity” will make the forum too sterile from that perspective.

Second (a bit of a principle involved here):

I am not thrilled by the idea of throwing posters out in order to create a friendlier, more inviting forum, even if said posters do not specifically break any rules. It is sort of as if ATP told a player “you have not broken any rules, but your playing style is not popular and is reducing ticket sales, so we will throw you off the tour anyway”. One can see why an organization might be tempted to do that, but it is also not hard to see why one may be unimpressed by such approach. I find it disappointing that the forum seems to be doing something similar (just as I found it disappointing a year ago when a similar thing also occurred).

Having said all this, I agree that some of the discussions – especially on the “era” threads – were becoming increasingly shrill. I do not think there is anything wrong with pointless endless circular discussions (let’s not kid ourselves, that will always be a big part of what tennis forums are about), but if discussions start descending into name calling, I can see why people may feel a red line has been crossed. However, that kind of behavior should be preventable by specific house rules rather than by vague directions and threats.

Summerblues - many fair points there.

HOWEVER - to the best of my knowledge the cases of "throwing posters out" are few and far between here on 606, certainly in the time I've been a member. And I'm pretty confident that when it has happened, it has been done for very specific reasons involving a clear contravention of the letter and/or spirit of the rules under which the founders and admins chose to create the site in the first place - and, more importantly, to which we all signed up when joining. Plus I believe there will always have been due warning and an attempt at negotiation before the ultimate imposition of a ban.

So, to my way of thinking, this request by the Admins/mods is in no way about "throwing posters out" It is far more about maintaining the right spirit and tone, a spirit that was designed to banish some of the less attractive memories of the old 606 which way too often would descend into cheap, offensive and of course totally pointless player denigration (whether by accident or design, but mostly design IMO) - and which in turn would very commonly lead to highly poisonous bashing of fellow posters too. And on that basis I fully support the thrust of the message being put across by Enforcer.

Agreed Lags.

There are always going to be circular debates but, as long as they don't get heated beyond reason, or take over every thread that is fine.

Articles purely designed to attack particular players are pointless and have no place on a tennis forum. This goes for any player.

lags72 wrote: So, to my way of thinking, this request by the Admins/mods is in no way about "throwing posters out" It is far more about maintaining the right spirit and tone

Well, I certainly hope it is not about throwing posters out, I do not think I was suggesting that. Yet here we are with Enforcer saying that no, it is not about rule breaking and yes, several posters could be removed.

I would like a forum to be open to all kinds of views – that is one of the main attractions to me – and I would not want the forum to legislate which views are acceptable and which ones are not.

It is one thing to ban say swear words – a rule like that is reasonably easily defined and does not really restrict the range of allowed opinions as pretty much every opinion can be expressed without them. My concern with the owners trying to create a “friendlier, more inviting forum” (as I put it), or “maintaining the right spirit” (as you put it), or other similar goals is that those are vague enough that they may – although unintentionally – restrict the range of views that can be expressed here.

carrieg4 wrote: Articles purely designed to attack particular players… …have no place on a tennis forum

As well intentioned as this thought is, I wholeheartedly disagree. Would you say the same about articles designed to praise particular players? Opinions come in all forms and shapes. Some of them are positive, others are critical. I would not want the forum to legislate which of the two are preferable. I would like to see a forum where all ideas can be expressed – as long as it is done in a civil manner. If we take the view that positive comments are preferable to the negative ones, then we are certainly going down the road of limiting – or at least biasing – the views and opinions that we can find here.

I agree with your point:
"I am not thrilled by the idea of throwing posters out in order to create a friendlier, more inviting forum, even if said posters do not specifically break any rules. " and I think it was eloquently expressed.

However I agree with Carrieg that articles designed to attack players are not good. I think it's reasonable to exclude these, broadly speaking. I guess some common sense might be applied in a certain situation. For example if Player x lays down his racket and punches a line judge an article criticising him or her might be highly appropriate! However the articles criticising player x for giving his opponent a slightly funny look at the net or swearing under his breath are really just biased attacks by haters and detrimental to a good spirit on the forum, and will lead to just what they are trying to avoid. Comments on such issues hardly warrant an entire article.

Henman Bill wrote:I agree with your point:
"I am not thrilled by the idea of throwing posters out in order to create a friendlier, more inviting forum, even if said posters do not specifically break any rules. " and I think it was eloquently expressed.

However I agree with Carrieg that articles designed to attack players are not good. I think it's reasonable to exclude these, broadly speaking. I guess some common sense might be applied in a certain situation. For example if Player x lays down his racket and punches a line judge an article criticising him or her might be highly appropriate! However the articles criticising player x for giving his opponent a slightly funny look at the net or swearing under his breath are really just biased attacks by haters and detrimental to a good spirit on the forum, and will lead to just what they are trying to avoid. Comments on such issues hardly warrant an entire article.

You put it much more eloquently than me HB

Henman Bill wrote:I guess some common sense might be applied in a certain situation.

Now I'm supposed to have common sense as well? You guys want everything!

I think the responses to this thread show how the very things that a number of posters think are good for the forum, a number of other posters would prefer not to see on the forum. When it comes to the things those posters wouldn't like to see, some of them keep posting anyway, others stay away from the forum or leave altogether.
It's a difficult balance to acheive and sometimes we (Admins/Mods) feel we need to redress it. - then we have to get the balance of our post right, as we see it - and again, whatever we post, some people will think we did, and some people will think we didn't. Just the way it goes, I guess.

Agree that there needs to be a balance. One of the issues with articles attacking players it means that certain posters who do not want to offend posters are forced to bite their tongues all the time. For example you will get an article saying player B is awful unlike player A who can do no wrong. The temptation is to go hang on minute player B is fine and what about these actions by player A but posters don't want to do it out of respect for other fans of player A. These articles either cause a bun fight of the he said, she said variety or leave many frustrated posters.

Indeed. It's called trolling, and it's not new to the interweb thingy.

These are all good points well made and I think we all agree we want balance but what gives? The risk is we now go the other way and people actually fear posting anything even near contentious for being banned so the forum just becomes very dry and very quiet. Is that already happening now? I'll leave that for others to judge.

We have had dominant 4 players for years now so its very hard for regular fans to avoid discussing them in comparison plus Federer harks back to a previous era so the intra-era discussions ebb and flow. We need less repetition but in the pursuit of that it now seems all the active player fans are vanishing or posting much less (BB, LK, socal, Haddie, Red and I've lost some motivation to post myself too) in the pursuit of neutrality. We need a little bit of "banter" between fans now and then, and yes non-hostile, or else its going to be straight reporting of results and stats on here. Thats not a forum, thats a notice board.

Maybe I'm overstating matters but I'm sure everyone's noticed the volume level has gone down. Some might says well thats ok, its quality vs quantity. I say its nice to have both. We as posters and LF/JHM must ensure that interventions from Admin are made as unnecessary as possible. That's not intended as a criticism but a call for future proactivity from us all in cutting repetition out of the forum without the need for Admin intervention and its ensuing effects.

Regular tennis posters contrary to poplar belief are not in abundance out there waiting to come flooding in to fill the gaps left by the previous regular posters. BB, LK, socal, myself, Red and some others on here have been regular posters for many years - thats not to alienate everyone else, its just to say that unless I'm mistaken regular tennis posters are a pretty rare breed when you look across the relatively small number of tennis forums out there, so we need to try to preserve what we have at the same time as encouraging others to post more and hopefully get others to join. Surely its about maintaining a balance of player fans, neutrality and some competitive "banter" from time to time too without the need for Admin interventions. Anyway, I've said my piece, I've got some Miami 1000 picks to make

JuliusHMarx wrote:I think the responses to this thread show how the very things that a number of posters think are good for the forum, a number of other posters would prefer not to see on the forum.

carrieg4 wrote:For example you will get an article saying player B is awful unlike player A who can do no wrong. The temptation is to go hang on minute player B is fine and what about these actions by player A but posters don't want to do it out of respect for other fans of player A. These articles either cause a bun fight of the he said, she said variety or leave many frustrated posters.

I can see it may be frustrating and I am not really advocating player bashing as the way to build a better world . But in general I am happy to accept all kinds of opinions – even those very extreme or oddball ones. If someone at the opposite end of the internet writes how my favorite player is the very embodiment of evil, I can just have a chuckle and move on. I can sieve through what I find here and ignore the stuff that is – in my view – unworthy of further consideration.

I also think that a lot of the worst stuff (by which I mostly mean posters attacking each other) can be taken care of via relatively simple house rules which are specific enough that posters do not have to wonder whether their posting will get them in trouble.

I recognize that, as with most things in life, it is more about the shades of gray rather than clean cut black or white, and that in the end some discretion will be needed in running the forum. But I would vote in favor of erring on the side of letting the discussions evolve on their own as much as possible.

Anyway, had a busy month at work, even missed Miami predictions for 606v2 World tour . Looking forward to hopefully watching some interesting matches this weekend.

@SB... Diversity of views is welcome, even circular discussions may be entertaining, but repetitious discussions just reflect on lack of the creativity that the community has to offer. For someone looking in from 'outside', it is monotony that, perhaps a new poster or a potential poster may want to avoid.

Being Critical v Player Bashing...

e.g..

"His BH is really a f***ked PoS..."

v

"His BH needs some work..."

(Using my exaggeration hat...)

Is this really censorship, or limiting some one's view? IMVHO, not.

There are many such examples. The need to put up such an article (i.e. OP), is to provide fair warning, rather than threaten posters. It is a deterrent.

Also, Moderators, are obliged to read, even if they dislike it. Reminds me of latrine duty.

There is a difference between criticize and denigate :-
denigrate - verb, Criticize unfairly; disparage

Not only do some posters denigrate, they are perfectly aware that they are doing so. Selfish, imo.

I can't believe there is still confusion.

The way I see it, if you truly know your not trying to annoy people you're 99% certain not to be against the spirt of this. If, in your heart, you know damn well that the reason you stuck a post up was to rile someone, you are.

It's that simple folks.

bogbrush. Sometimes I feel a little annoyed at your refusal to fully acknowledge Nadal's talents. I sometimes think you don't give him the respect that he deserves. Do you know that? I trust you are not doing it to deliberately annoy me.

bogbrush wrote:I can't believe there is still confusion.

The way I see it, if you truly know your not trying to annoy people you're 99% certain not to be against the spirt of this. If, in your heart, you know damn well that the reason you stuck a post up was to rile someone, you are.

It's that simple folks.

That's pretty much spot on. I think we all know who they are...

hawkeye wrote:bogbrush. Sometimes I feel a little annoyed at your refusal to fully acknowledge Nadal's talents. I sometimes think you don't give him the respect that he deserves. Do you know that? I trust you are not doing it to deliberately annoy me.

Of course not. I know that for certain. If I express my honest opinion for the reason only of my assessmemt of tennis, and it happens to annoy you I'd say that's your problem. Maybe we'd discuss it. If I said it purely for the purpose of annoying you, that'd be mine. I don't, be sure.

bogbrush. That's how I thought it was. In fact the way I look at it I think that most views expressed here are genuine. They may be wrong (Ha ha!) but IMO they are what people think. I disagree with you and others who are of the opinion that some pretend to have views as a way of annoying posters. Sometimes posters have annoying views but that is a different matter.