To All Users of the Tennis Section - Please Read

First topic message reminder :

To all users of the Tennis board,

The Admin Team feels that the overall hostile and unfriendly tone of tennis section is currently detrimental to 606v2 as a whole and that all posters should honestly question whether their posts bring anything positive and healthy to the forum. We would like to emphasise that it is not about rule-breaking but about creating a more friendly, healthy environment that more posters would want to be involved in rather than leave.

If things don't change there are several members who could be removed from the site or the section could be temporarily (at first) closed.

Please take account of the following and if any of the listed changes apply to your posts, please amend your posting style immediately. This is an open warning and any further transgressions will be dealt with accordingly.

The problem isn't rule-breaking, it's the overall negativity of the forum and the endless circular debates to 'prove' one point of contention is correct, or one player is better/worse - often aimed specifically at the expense of other posters. Eventually the posters who post loudest and longest 'win' and the others disappear from the forum, because it has ceased to hold any enjoyment for them. Not from losing the argument, but from the hostility and animosity of the other posters.

It seems most threads are either created for the purposes of criticism and/or battle, or else hi-jacked into a battle.
It's no wonder outsiders look at the tennis forum and think there is more than the fair share of nutjobs on there (as one poster put it on the GOAT thread).

The list of changes that are required from certain posters are:

• Users to stop creating thread purely to deride or post negatives about specific players.
  
• Stop creating endless threads which raise issues that are a thinly-disguised attempt to 'prove' one point or another that has already been debated to death. Please be happy that you believe it and not be so desparate to endlessly 'prove' it to everyone else, or to 'prove' that posters you dislike are wrong.
  
• Users to stop the indignation every time someone says the slightest negative thing about their favourite player.
  
• Users to stop going on about how they are always right and letting their dislike of players and their fans colour their posts.
  
• Not to make disparaging generalisations of other groups of posters/fans of other players
  
• To treat all posters equally regardless of differences of opinion and not to retort in kind if one poster transgresses the behaviour required for a harmonious forum.
  

You may recognise traits of other posters in the above list. However, this is not a name and shame exercise, anybody who says 'x point applies to y user' will receive a 2 day ban without warning or notification.

Lydian

Your point on the overwhelming dominance of the top 4 is well taken - certainly narrows the scope for debate and discussion when it's considered almost a freak result for any of them to lose to even the players ranked 5-8 never mind to someone like Rosol.

Snip - was drifting perilously close to an 'Era' discussion .

haha, indeed...

Really didn't notice anything was wrong...

@BB... There is a '5 star-1 star' system that the old 606 (JA606) and some others used. If it is not used to abuse and form cliques, it can be a good form of feedback, apart from posting on the thread itself. Would that be something worth investigating?

(BTW, are you and SoCal having beef together? - Am I going to be banned for this comment? ).

This has been discussed before LF, not sure the Forumotion engine allows that to happen?

JuliusHMarx wrote:Born, which of the bullet points in particular do you disagree with?

For example, just to take the first point - do you think that a new thread raised specifically to raise negative points about a particular player makes the forum a better place?
Or that a one-line post in a thread that simply insults a player and/or his fans benefits the forum?

I fundamentally disagree that this site needs to "stop" doing the points listed on the basis i have seen no real indication of any of them. Now, I'll accept that i obviously don't know what you delete but i get the impression it isn't much. If you are deleting loads of articles which fall within point 1 then i can accept the message is required. However, if it is based on what is appearing on the forum then i don't see a general warning as in any way necessary. Apart from one poster in relation to Murray (who is clever and humorous enough that i would hate for her to be banned) there just arent loads of negative articles.

Born, we've had people reporting the type of posts we're referring to (via the report button), we've had people recommending others be banned, we've had people being very grateful that the points in the OP are being addressed and even before the OP we've lost & nearly lost posters because of those issues.

Obviously we don't expect everyone to agree with us, but that doesn't mean the Admin/Mod team can ignore our responsibilities as we see them.

Then far be it for me to make the suggestion that if the Admin/Mod team want to take control of the forum in order that the issues you raise can be fully addressed that before an article or indeeed a comment is posted on the forum it go to moderation. That way everyone knows where they stand..saving deletion of posts, banning of posters and unneccessary concern by posters that they have or likely will "say the wrong thing".You have then fulfilled your responsibility ...or am I missing something ??

I don't think the Admins want that to happen Haddie, but if they did and they paid me enough I'd consider doing it, if I thought it would benefit the forum. Alas, they don't pay me, or themselves, anything - it's all unpaid voluntary work.

Ultimately it's up to the Founders/Admins, who created and run the site, to run it how they see fit. We can then choose to participate (for free) or not.

I never believed for one moment that you received payment It was intended to be a suggestion and one that ultimately would save you and the Admin the problems you have been experiencing. Leaving the forum members safe in the knowledge that their comments cannot be misinterpreted and the Moderators less work in the long run. But hey ho..

JuliusHMarx wrote:Born, we've had people reporting the type of posts we're referring to (via the report button), we've had people recommending others be banned, we've had people being very grateful that the points in the OP are being addressed and even before the OP we've lost & nearly lost posters because of those issues.

Obviously we don't expect everyone to agree with us, but that doesn't mean the Admin/Mod team can ignore our responsibilities as we see them.

Odd that the general reaction on this thread is surprise and disappointment then. People who post on here also have an interest in the site being successful and, based on what i have seen, it seems to ne thriving. Do you honestly agree that the site is overall negative and that most threads are created for the purpose of criticism?

JuliusHMarx wrote:I don't think the Admins want that to happen Haddie, but if they did and they paid me enough I'd consider doing it, if I thought it would benefit the forum. Alas, they don't pay me, or themselves, anything - it's all unpaid voluntary work.

Ultimately it's up to the Founders/Admins, who created and run the site, to run it how they see fit. We can then choose to participate (for free) or not.

This point has to be accepted or there wouldn't be a site. However like a number of others who have replied to this I think that the tennis forum has been a lot more convivial recently than it was in 2011 and early 2012 when it was much more vitriolic. So I'm surprised that a post like the OP has been created at this time. It will be interesting to see if it brings people back or attracts a number of new members.

I think personally the forum is in a good state right now, much better than it has been in the past. Born Slippy's comment was absolutely spot on.

Born Slippy, I like you, am bewildered by the step in action of the admin here. This is a quote from a PM Amritia messaged me yesterday afternoon before he decided to stop posting, and after some consideration I think it's best to share it with you guys.

I usually don't like to post PMs people send me but since Amrit isn't here and I asked his permission and i think it is a good post here it is in italics:



I really don't see where there is so much hostility here? Maybe I have missed it, but for the past few months I have really not seen it at all. Compared to last year the atmosphere is extremely friendly, well, from the posters who post here anyway. I know there was one guy in the GOAT thread who made a comment aimed at this section of the forum, but having read his posts across the board, I think his posting is a bit weird and thus his judgement is questionable to say the least.
This is a challenge to you Socal, look at the recent page on the tennis article, and point out one article which is designed to insult a player or certain group of posters. There are none, with the exception of a light-humoured attempt by Josiah (who himself later said he was a 'Rafa fan' so clearly he wasn't being serious.) Certainly you and BB used to argue last year, but that has stopped now. Which two posters are hostile to each other now?
We have different views, but no one has this problem. BB is a Fed fan, I am a Nadal fan; we get on well. Caledonian Craig is a Murray fan, Invisible is a Del P fan; they get on well. Lydian is a Nadal fan, you are a Djokovic fan; you guys disagree on some issues but seem to get along really well. Maybe I miss it all, perhaps there are massive arguments which just happen to be deleted before I log on, but I doubt it.

The only possible problem I did identify is that sometimes we can have two threads with the same debate (the era debate), this I believe is inefficient and thus the admin should move quickly to merge the threads or group of posts when this happens. I made this point to the admins, but it was ignored for some reason.
As for the comments on Enforcer's thread, they have been interesting, but one comment I really have to disagree with is from Legendkiller. I respect LK a lot as a poster, but I totally disagree with his comment that MTL is some sort of ideal forum atmosphere.
There is a weird mix of posters there, 50% are really nice (Flirty, RAF, Sir Benson, LF, HB etc.) but the rest are feverently anit-Nadal. Last year there was a thread where Dutchie said if they could kill anyone from the top 100 it would be Nadal, this thread was only deleted after many hours of me complaining to the mods, I even showed Lydian it. Honestly, MTL would make OTF seem like a Nadal-worshipping forum. So I'm not sure LK was right there.

Cheers,
Amritia

Also are GOAT and Era topics now banned, I mean in effect the people who liked those discussion have been cryptically threatened by the management, I like those discussions. I like them in all the sports I follow. If you don't, don't participate but judging by the participation more people like them then let on.

Calder106 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:I don't think the Admins want that to happen Haddie, but if they did and they paid me enough I'd consider doing it, if I thought it would benefit the forum. Alas, they don't pay me, or themselves, anything - it's all unpaid voluntary work.

Ultimately it's up to the Founders/Admins, who created and run the site, to run it how they see fit. We can then choose to participate (for free) or not.

This point has to be accepted or there wouldn't be a site. However like a number of others who have replied to this I think that the tennis forum has been a lot more convivial recently than it was in 2011 and early 2012 when it was much more vitriolic. So I'm surprised that a post like the OP has been created at this time. It will be interesting to see if it brings people back or attracts a number of new members.

I doubt it will attract new posters, if anything it will alienate existing ones as evidenced by Amritia and frankly it has left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth and a feeling that topics that are legitimate and fun are somehow not wanted and people who post threads on some topics or maybe get passionate about those topics aren't wanted either.

Born, I do believe there is far too much negativity on the forum. If I was viewing it through a poster's eye I might see the balance differently than through a Moderator's eye or an outsider's eye. I do know that enough people feel the same way for some action to be necessary.
Too many threads/posts contribute to that negativity. I guess one could quibble over the use of the term 'most' as opposed to 'too many', but I think that's probably splitting hairs a bit.
You can say that's the Mod's fault for not stopping it, or posters' fault for starting it. The outcome is the same either way and I don't think wrong to ask posters to follow the points in the OP, where they are not currently being followed.
The use of the term 'overall' was meant as an indication that it's not just the odd thread or one poster, more something that can be felt throughout the forum at a level that needed action to be taken (i.e. it's not necessarily the majority, but that it is widespread.)
You may disagree, that's your right, but the opinion of Admins/Mods is in the OP as it stands, as is their right.

For me I think the word that comes to mind Socal is "uncomfortable"
I now feel I have walked into a room full of strangers.

I agree socal. Regular tennis forum posters are not two a penny. We're quite a rare breed compared to other sports posters. If you look across 6-8 tennis forums you maybe have 10-15 regular posters on each one with much less frequent posters after that. That isn't a whole lot of posters driving discussion across the web.

Since the troubles of last year it's been pretty good on here and yet we haven't been run awash with a large influx of new posters. There just aren't that many tennis posters out there and if Admin think there is a rich vein of untapped posters to be attracted here then they'll be disappointed. I also think tennis posters are seen (wrongly) as elitist by other sports posters so I take the 'nut jobs' comment with a pinch of salt to be honest.

This section is doing fine, yes we want new members but they don't grow on trees. We need to keep the regular posters we have posting and coax the less frequent members to post more. Posters like Amritia have a passion for tennis and posting and it's a real shame to lose that. I agree it's important that this case isn't overstated or we end up alienating the current members. If 606v2 doesn't want a tennis section then fair enough but it's one of the busiest sections on the forum as a whole, busier than football even and one of the busiest tennis forums around besides a huge one like TT Warehouse which is dual purpose for selling gear, etc.

socal, no subjects have been banned, but I would ask you, as I asked Born, which of the 6 bullet points raised by Enforcer do you think are unreasonable requests?

All of those points address things that have occurred on the forum to some extent, some more than others and have now been addressed as a whole by the Admins (as opposed to, say, raising one issue per day).

Haddie-nuff wrote:For me I think the word that comes to mind Socal is "uncomfortable"
I now feel I have walked into a room full of strangers.

Exactly, Haddie I feel like the original post was directed at me and Amritia mainly, some of the criticisms were inaccurate but after getting a PM that you are one of the trouble makers and the topics you want to talk about aren't worthy well, ok then why waste your time.

Sure things have gotten heated and acrimonious at times, but as I said the timing and the criticisms are off putting. What should we just congratulate the winners and post stats and highlights now? Is a little teasing and joking around not allowed? What exactly is so terrible about GOAT and era talks, because person A doesn't like the topic they can legislate taste for the rest of us? If the conversations are civil and not derogatory I don't get it at all.

On top of that threats to shutdown the site when we are adding members and people are enjoying it? Do you ever remember this place being so civil after the arrival of TEnez and his cadre that is?

Most all of them julius, you guys are trying legislate taste and legislate away fun.

1, 2, and 4 are just plain wrong. What is wrong with me claiming I am right, if I didn't think I was right why would I waste my time posting. If someone has a point of view and once to talk about debates that have no resolution but provide source of exchanging facts and arguments why not beat a dead horse if you like to. And point 2, sometimes players do stupid ass craap that they should be derided for I don't like it when Roger gives a haughty interview another guy doesn't like Novak's shirt tearing, someone doesn't like Nadal's on court coaching what is this Pravda?

lydian, I don't really visit other tennis forums, so I'm in no position to compare.
I don't think anyone expects a sudden influx on new posters, but as things stand we have been losing a small trickle of posters, some of whom have only stayed a short time, and so might not be missed. Others have stated an intention to leave. Also, other 606v2 members look at the tennis forum and decide not to post here, which is something we'd like to prevent.

As I have stated, I hope Amritia reconsiders. She PM'ed me and I explained that many of the conclusions she had drawn from Enforcer's OP were not correct, so I hope that may change her mind.

I mean lydian did a great thread on lendl and I can't even get this stuff out of my mind and the loss of my friend hopefully temporarily amritia to post there. If anything this took everyone off message and ruined the vibe. Like someone passing out STD pamphlets at an orgy, terrible timing and stress inducing for no reason.

How much cross-pollination is the site expecting between sub-sections. I have no desire to post in wrestling or rugby, cricket. Sure people can come across and post from any section - that's great - but many discussions on here are very detailed so I'm not sure how much traffic we'll get here from other sports. Perhaps around Wimbledon but if you're not really into tennis across the year I don't see many people posting from other areas. It would be like me trying to comment on the ins and outs of rugby...I just couldn't do it but yes the more the merrier.

The situation cannot be anywhere near as bad as this time last year, I know because I was in the middle of it. The forum simply doesn't have that feel from 12 months ago. It may not be perfect and we take on board we need to be perhaps a little less negative at times but it doesn't feel that bad. You have to recognise most of the regulars are expressing surprise at all this right...?

lydian wrote:I agree socal. Regular tennis forum posters are not two a penny. We're quite a rare breed compared to other sports posters. If you look across 6-8 tennis forums you maybe have 10-15 regular posters on each one with much less frequent posters after that. That isn't a whole lot of posters driving discussion across the web.

Since the troubles of last year it's been pretty good on here and yet we haven't been run awash with a large influx of new posters. There just aren't that many tennis posters out there and if Admin think there is a rich vein of untapped posters to be attracted here then they'll be disappointed. I also think tennis posters are seen (wrongly) as elitist by other sports posters so I take the 'nut jobs' comment with a pinch of salt to be honest.

This section is doing fine, yes we want new members but they don't grow on trees. We need to keep the regular posters we have posting and coax the less frequent members to post more. Posters like Amritia have a passion for tennis and posting and it's a real shame to lose that. I agree it's important that this case isn't overstated or we end up alienating the current members. If 606v2 doesn't want a tennis section then fair enough but it's one of the busiest sections on the forum as a whole, busier than football even and one of the busiest tennis forums around besides a huge one like TT Warehouse which is dual purpose for selling gear, etc.

The reason I don't post on MTL and the other sites that while they have quantity they lack quality. People like you who understand tennis and can explain and delve into the nuances of an argument are valuable commidities in our restricted little world of fanatics. I went on MTL and it was a million posters most of whom couldn't formulate a paragraph about tennis. I disagree with you on a great deal of things, but I think I have learned from our disagreements and arguments. And maybe some people have learned something from my analysis. The best posters we have on this forum blow away the analysis you get from paid journalists, instead of reigning in the passion we should encourage it. WE have always been civil you and I, and my interactions with 90 percent of the people on this site has been civil and right now it is close to 100 percent, an odd dustup here and there will happen.

socal, I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. I genuinely don't see it that way at all.
I myself have been guilty on occasion, and I don't think ensuring I raise my standards a little will take away my fun.
However, ultimately the Admin/Founders of the site are free to legislate whatever they want. They could ban any member who says the word 'quarter-final' if they felt like it.
Posters are free to join, leave, contribute to any site that they choose depending on if they feel the site is worth it.

Can't disagree with any of that socal

This is hilarious; everyone is arguing like Hell to protest that they don't start arguments. seriously, I think that side of things has got a lot better.

My feeling is that the place can get a bit repetitive and boring with, especially, the same old era arguments. These are surely off putting to new members, especially as they're not easily accessible to those who haven't notched up a minimum of 1000 posts on the same mind-numbingly tedious subject.

One thing we can all surely agree on is that the real problem is the boring state of the current game, handicapped as it is by lack of depth and increasingly dominated by equipment-dependent automatons with bottomless lungs.

JuliusHMarx wrote:socal, I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. I genuinely don't see it that way at all.
I myself have been guilty on occasion, and I don't think ensuring I raise my standards a little will take away my fun.
However, ultimately the Admin/Founders of the site are free to legislate whatever they want. They could ban any member who says the word 'quarter-final' if they felt like it.
Posters are free to join, leave, contribute to any site that they choose depending on if they feel the site is worth it.

Yes but just simply saying I have the discretion and the power doesn't mean you should exercise it if it is counterproductive. No one argues the administration can do whatever they like, I thank them for setting up this site. I want the site to be better just like they do, but as a thinking person I conclude that points 1,2, and 4 if enforced strictly will chop the gonads of this site. We can't do negative threads, we can't say we are right, we can't have ongoing discussions too long that there is no right answer to. No one argues you can ban me today or tomorrow but why, what does that accomplish for the site.

Now now BB, you know humour has been banned.

bogbrush wrote:everyone is arguing like Hell to protest that they don't start arguments.

Oh no I'm not

Discussions have become dry, and yes tennis itself has become dry. Its just getting a whole lot more interesting with Nadal coming back. At the end of the day it is down to posters to try to create threads as well as just read them otherwise its the same people initiating discussion.

socal, obviously we feel that the points raised by Enforcer will lead to a better, more positive site. They aren't put there to make the site worse.
Obviously (again, sorry) the Admins/Mods do what the consider is in the best interests of site. Not all posters will agree and it would be futile to try and get all posters to agree. It would be like trying to get everyone to vote for one party at an election.
If you disagree, then you disagree. Fair enough.

BB argueing is not the the issue, damn straight I like to argue why the hell would I come here if I didn't like to argue my position and listen to other arguments?

The funny thing is that you knock the current state of the game, I like it, you insult today's champions I think the rollover generation and fed's early contemporaries were boring. Now you are doing an indirect era argument contrasting the current era with the past in a negative light. That I guess is ok because it casts Fed in a good light. I think the recent past was not entertaining watching fed just steamroll people. Somehow your argument isn't deemed negative and boring. But mine is? Could it be because of who you favor as opposed to who I favor?

Oh oh...someone mentioned "era". Cue wailing klaxons and flashing lights.

Careful socal, you just spent a whole thread constructing a position and then slamming it in the bin in one post.

lydian wrote:Oh oh...someone mentioned "era". Cue wailing klaxons and flashing lights.

I'm thinking ringing bells and salivating dogs.........

Still, I'm glad you've all corrected me - apparently there is no negativity on the site. Can't see any at all

Are you sure that's not a weird late night video you watched yesterday BB?

Isn't "cant" a negative word?

lydian wrote:Are you sure that's not a late night video you watched yesterday BB?

Isn't "cant" a negative word?

The noun or the verb? Or the word with the apostrophe in it?
Would you care to recant? In fact, I demand a recant.

lydian wrote:Are you sure that's not a weird late night video you watched yesterday

Let's not open the subject of late night videos or the place really will be closed down...

bogbrush wrote:This is hilarious; everyone is arguing like Hell to protest that they don't start arguments.

No fighting in the War Room!

Just thought I would pop in and say hello and dispel a few assumptions that are going on.

The reason why this thread has gone up is for the overall good of the section.

Someone wisely said that people can choose to ignore certain threads and repeated arguments/ discussions and this is very true.

I think however though that it should be noted that the people who you have all praised as great mods, unfortunately cannot duck out of threads that drive them to drink [probably/allegedly]

The point being is that they have to keep an eye on everything. And it become incredibly draining to have to dredge through the same concersation/ argument/ stubborn opinion time and time again. I am sure a few people will not have had the patience to tune out certain posters along the way and a few new posters might not be used to other tennis forums as a comparison.

Every forum needs new blood and I think that we all have to be mindful of that when we decide to post an opinion on yet another thread that you might have expressed ad infinitum before. Some people will get angry which will lead to negativity etc.

So the point being is can we all just be a little more considerate to those who might not be on your "care about" radar namely guests, new members and most importantly for me (as I dont want to moderate this god awful section )the moderators.

Thanks and good luck. I am off, any responses please direct to enforcer!

But that is the thing Adam there were really no serious dustups for some weeks and then certain posters were indirectly alluded to and everyone knew who they were talking about and accused of bringing the forum down and that topics they wish to discuss were not welcome. The moderator himself is one of the ones who routinely posts on era and GOAT debates, both of them do. If you skim through the a few of the most recent threads you will see that contrary to the picture of this section as something akin to a drunken wild west gun fight it actually is filled for the most part with people who love tennis and like to talk tennis with each other. I can't think of any name calling in many weeks, any long standing grudges that are not done and dusted. Last year this place was as portrayed a battle zone. It hasn't been for some time but it is a little weird when you are told that certain legitimate threads bring the place down and aren't wanted and if continued will result in not only bans but possibly closing down the section. Or told that you can't do any negative commentary on a player because fans of that player will have their tender sensibilities offended. Or told that you can't say you are right.

Don't get me wrong the founders have done a great job and thanks for it, and no one denies that management can make whatever rules they like for the site. But the tennis forum was sailing along smoothly numerous new posters had begun to post who hadn't before people like Silver, quietplease, and kingraf who are all quality and started posting frequently recently. Then it seems that certain individuals with a certain viewpoint were told they were bringing the site down because of what they chose to talk about or because they may have negative criticisms of pro athletes. Imagine that criticism of pro athletes on a sports chat website, who would have thunk it?

And don't take my word for it, listen to the response of people on this thread. Most are basically standing up for the section and the posters on the section and saying that this universal threat is unwarranted and the site is doing just fine.

socal, I can't see how we can say all is wonderful if the mods feel conduct can be better. Its not like they arent reasonable is it?
You (and I for that matter) may be comfortable in a battle zone but most aren't, and new posters certainly may be put off. I don't mind them asking us to take the sharp corners off, after all who really needs another era thread? It's pathetic that subject still comes up, really.

I don't think they mean don't criticise either; I think they mean don't imply a player only wins by cheating on time, or don't blow up tiny incidents to undermine another players legitimate numerous fair play awards. Not that anyone would do that....

Some of my best friends are legendkillerV2, CaledonianCraig, bogbrush, socal1976 etc but that doesn't mean I agree with their views. Sometimes I think they may have got things a little wrong...

JuliusHMarx wrote:Born, I do believe there is far too much negativity on the forum. If I was viewing it through a poster's eye I might see the balance differently than through a Moderator's eye or an outsider's eye. I do know that enough people feel the same way for some action to be necessary.
Too many threads/posts contribute to that negativity. I guess one could quibble over the use of the term 'most' as opposed to 'too many', but I think that's probably splitting hairs a bit.
You can say that's the Mod's fault for not stopping it, or posters' fault for starting it. The outcome is the same either way and I don't think wrong to ask posters to follow the points in the OP, where they are not currently being followed.
The use of the term 'overall' was meant as an indication that it's not just the odd thread or one poster, more something that can be felt throughout the forum at a level that needed action to be taken (i.e. it's not necessarily the majority, but that it is widespread.)
You may disagree, that's your right, but the opinion of Admins/Mods is in the OP as it stands, as is their right.

Well, I can give you an outsider's viewpoint. I have no hesitation in saying that you probably have one of the best tennis forums around, if not the best. I would suggest that you take the time to view some other forums and then decide if you still think it is too negative on here. Having just looked, I also see this is the third largest section of v2 overall, which for a relatively minority sport is remarkable.

I assume the admins' approach is intended to grow the site and you are, of course, correct that they can choose to do that as they like. However, from what I have read, it seems that the approach being taken has already driven away one keen contributor (surely Amritia is a "he" by the way?) and, in my opinion, is very unlikely to cause an influx of new members. I would have thought the admins would be better off appreciating the input of the diverse range of members they have on this section of the site, rather than threatening to turn it off because there are too many era threads (which is really what this seems to be getting at). That seems completely over the top and, frankly, disrespectful to the posters who have given a lot of their time to building this section of the site.

I can understand that modding the section is not easy and, of course, it is a shame if any members leave. However, I would have thought the main way to attract new members is to make it a place where there are a variety of threads and opinions. It certainly isn't to make it anodyne with people afraid to express any opinions which might be considered negative.

bogbrush wrote:socal, I can't see how we can say all is wonderful if the mods feel conduct can be better. Its not like they arent reasonable is it?
You (and I for that matter) may be comfortable in a battle zone but most aren't, and new posters certainly may be put off. I don't mind them asking us to take the sharp corners off, after all who really needs another era thread? It's pathetic that subject still comes up, really.

I don't think they mean don't criticise either; I think they mean don't imply a player only wins by cheating on time, or don't blow up tiny incidents to undermine another players legitimate numerous fair play awards. Not that anyone would do that....

BB me and you were a two man battle zone lets be honest, but we quelled it. You did your part and proved yourself to be honest and reasonable man. I would like that I did the same. Some of these bullet points are direct and indirect jabs at people who have a certain viewpoint or wish to discuss certain topics. The timing is weird, and some of the bullet points frankly are just wrong and should not be strictly enforced. Negative critiques of players are part and parcel of sports talk anywhere. New posters, we have added more good new posters in the last month than I can remember in quite some time. QP, KRaf, and a couple of others who pardon their pun have lost their virginity in the past month or two. This seems like an indirect jibe at me and amrit, and hawkeye to some extent with accusations that we are bringing this forum down. I predate pretty much everyone on this site who routinely posts I think other than legendkillar, I was here when it was six Rafateers and 3 neutrals posting. If I bring this site down why is that this section is one of the most popular in the website, and since I brought this section down there has been like a dozen more regular posters added at the least if not twice that number.

This to me seems to be more of a problem with a particular group of posters who share unpopular and controversial viewpoints that the moderator, Julius deems unworthy. I like Julius as a person, and a poster, and I respect the hard work he does, sometimes he does a good job, sometimes he makes mistakes. This whole thread and notice is a mistake in my opinion. And if points 1,2, and 4 are imposed strictly you will find less people posting and less fun. But again as we all know the administration created the site, my gratitude to them, and they can do what they like. But when 9 out of 10 regular posters say that we are unaware of a problem and stand up for the section and the section is adding new members, is this necessary. And can't you see why someone might feel a bit insulted by the indirect insinuations of some of these bullet points?

Yes, I can see that some may be annoyed (I checked whether I was implicated).

I certainly didn't pick who was being warned, so it's not totally obvious I think. The interesting thing about our cessation of hostilities is that we haven't stopped disagreeing, we just don't insult or rip the forum apart. Our current form of disagreement is, I am sure, entirely in line with forum standards. Well done to us both I'd say!

Like I say, I think normal discourse isn't what's being addressed here - I am sure we can still disagree and criticise players, but I think they're asking us not to do it in a way that's really just a disguised way to annoy others. If I do a dig about automaton players who rely on running you know I'm not really describing Djokovic, I'm goading you (obviously a hypothetical because that's not my style of course!). That's what they mean and they're right really, aren't they?

BB you've summed it up perfectly there.