Centre problems for the Lions

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone see any glimmer of hope for the lions in their possible centre pairings?
Looking back on the Wales v. England game the best piece of centre play was the run, dummy and offload by Tipuric for Cuthbert's 2nd try.
Who does anyone realistically see as the 1st choice pairing?

BOD and Tuilagi for me or BOD and North

Marshall had a stormer...against Ruaridh Jackson. Pretty sure two of his breaks were due to woeful defence but I suppose you can only play the players put in front of you. Too soon for him and for Scott. Very surprised if Tuilagi doesn't tour, you can't leave someone who can have that sort of impact on a game at home. Whether he makes the test team is another matter.

Sorry have not had time to read the whole thread...anyone mentioned playing Farrell at 12? Would be interested to hear any thoughts...

anyone mentioned playing Farrell at 12? - NO - there's only so much creativity we can cope with

I think Gatland is going have to take a gamble at in side centre because Roberts is the only one we have. JD2, BOD and tuilagi are out side centres and BOD and Roberts are the two most capable of doing a class act at both centre postition, twelvetrees has next to no international experience same as Scott, Marshall has no experience and Henson well he's not him self anymore so its a gamble on one of them

Scott may not have a lot of international experience, but he has played against all the 6N teams, The All Blacks, The Boks and Australia.

Including being in a side that beat Australia...

I would say he is the most experienced player available at inside centre apart from Roberts and Barrett.

I think Scott offers more than both those other two to be honest.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Scott JD2 partnership, or Scott BOD

If we are going for experience then it would be Henson, but if we are going on form it be Scott

bluestonevedder wrote:I think Scott offers more than both those other two to be honest.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Scott JD2 partnership, or Scott BOD

I agree

The Lions don't have a centre problem, they have four grandslam winners to choose from JD2,Roberts,Williams and BOD.

Im amazed how many people think Manu is pretty much a dead cert, pundits etc... they seem to think who will be partnering Manu.

Manu isn't that good can't pass poor handling skills not that fast and a slow turn.

viewtothegym wrote:The Lions don't have a centre problem, they have four grandslam winners to choose from JD2,Roberts,Williams and BOD.

Agreed.

Add Manu Tuilagi, Barrett, Luke Marshall, Hogg, Bowe, Henson and Paddy Wallace in there and there a loads of exciting combinations. No idea what the opp is on about.....

Manu's not really a dead cert in any team. Don't know what you've been reading recently.

Manu's got some serious gas- ridiculous talk. He has a fast turn- ridiculous talk. His passing needs improvement, but it's not as bad as everyone makes out.

Really like the look of Luke Marshall! Reminds me a little bit of JD2. The good all rounder, with bulk but speed too. Could be a great player for Ireland.

I can not believe how Graeme Morrison is being ignored

Graeme Morrison isn't good enough to play youth rugby never mind Lions

Riskysports wrote:I can not believe how Graeme Morrison is being ignored

Thank god the dark days of him donning the Scotland Jersey are over!

What about Rob Dewey?

While we are at it lets get Andy Henderson on the plane to Australia!

My goodness we did produce some tripe at centre.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
My goodness we did produce some tripe at centre.

I hope thats aimed at Morrison and not at the badger

Imperialbigdave wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
My goodness we did produce some tripe at centre.

I hope thats aimed at Morrison and not at the badger

But at least we had parks to get the line moving

Ah the good old days

JD2 has played most of his rugby at inside centre and has been picked out of position for wales as Roberts has been prefered at 12. I think that he, Roberts and Tugilai will definately go. BOD looked an old man in his last 2 games, Scott looks slow, Farrell is too slow for 10 and way too slow for centre. So the 3rd choice for me is between Scott Williams, Twelvetrees and Marshall.

Scott looks slow? I would say he is one of the quicker 12s being mentioned. Watch his break for Vissers tries against France and NZ

I would have Bod and Tuilagi in the centres, BOD can create space with his clever ball handling and offload for Tuilagi. Youngs and Sexton half backs with the welsh wingers and FB

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scott looks slow? I would say he is one of the quicker 12s being mentioned. Watch his break for Vissers tries against France and NZ

Watch him against Italy, he was put clean away, just 25m to run, and he just had no second gear. He is quick off the mark but does not have the pace that the modern game on a dry track will require. I would rather see Lamont go, at least he has the pace.

Scott is just one of a number of centres who is getting by in the heavy conditions in an UK winter, who would be shown up on a hard fast pitch.

RubyGuby wrote:I would have Bod and Tuilagi in the centres, BOD can create space with his clever ball handling and offload for Tuilagi. Youngs and Sexton half backs with the welsh wingers and FB

BOD and Tuilgai are both 13s (outside centres), there are a few players who can play both inside and outside (JD2, Barritt) but BOD & Tuilagi are not in that club. Tuilagi has the bulk and power for 12 but his distribution is pants. BOD has the hands but not the bulk, he also looked somewhat over the hill in the latter rounds of the 6N, in his prime a certain Lions test starter, but way past his prime now.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scott looks slow? I would say he is one of the quicker 12s being mentioned. Watch his break for Vissers tries against France and NZ

I was pleasantly surprised with his pace for the try in Paris, but I thought when he made that interception against NZ he looked painfully slow, the NZ defenders were gaining on him quickly and if Visser hadn't been on his shoulder he'd probably have been tackled before he reached the 22. He had put on a fair bit of bulk over the summer and looked like it was slowing him down, but mayber now he's overcome that problem because as I said I was impressed with the break against France.

It doesn't undermine his efforts for Visser's try, but it puts it in context that his break resulted from Schlong Lamont taking out a Frenchman in front of him. From there he still had a lot to do and he did it well.

Seagultaf wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I would have Bod and Tuilagi in the centres, BOD can create space with his clever ball handling and offload for Tuilagi. Youngs and Sexton half backs with the welsh wingers and FB

BOD and Tuilgai are both 13s (outside centres), there are a few players who can play both inside and outside (JD2, Barritt) but BOD & Tuilagi are not in that club. Tuilagi has the bulk and power for 12 but his distribution is pants. BOD has the hands but not the bulk, he also looked somewhat over the hill in the latter rounds of the 6N, in his prime a certain Lions test starter, but way past his prime now.

If BOD offloads to Tuilagi I don't think there is much point having the Welsh back three outside...! They won't see the ball, Tuilagi could go as a winger, he would be good there. Not as a centre though, he looks out of his depth at 12 or 13. He can't pass, kick or creat space for those around him anywhere near as well as BOD, JD2, Twelvetrees, Scott or Marshall.

We need a clever midfield and fast strong wingers.

Pat_Mustard wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scott looks slow? I would say he is one of the quicker 12s being mentioned. Watch his break for Vissers tries against France and NZ

I was pleasantly surprised with his pace for the try in Paris, but I thought when he made that interception against NZ he looked painfully slow, the NZ defenders were gaining on him quickly and if Visser hadn't been on his shoulder he'd probably have been tackled before he reached the 22. He had put on a fair bit of bulk over the summer and looked like it was slowing him down, but mayber now he's overcome that problem because as I said I was impressed with the break against France.

I think maybe he's been caught with his pants down a few times, so to speak. By this I mean he might just have been a bit out of breathe those times he had a chance to score. His failed try vs Italy, he looked really slow there and his run after intercept vs NZ looked really slow. But perhaps he was just out of breathe because his try from a beautiful SM offload and his run vs France were really good and he looked pretty quick. I think he could be a surprise Lions inclusion, he's got fantastic all round skills.

Scott looks slow and just average in every part of his game. He's not good enough for the Lions by a long shot.

Roberts/JD 12
Tuilagi/BOD 13

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scott looks slow and just average in every part of his game. He's not good enough for the Lions by a long shot.

Roberts/JD 12
Tuilagi/BOD 13

I'd take Scott and Marshall over Tuilagi as centres. Purely because they can make the breaks Tuilagi does but can also bring the players around them into the game far better.

maestegmafia wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scott looks slow and just average in every part of his game. He's not good enough for the Lions by a long shot.

Roberts/JD 12
Tuilagi/BOD 13

I'd take Scott and Marshall over Tuilagi as centres. Purely because they can make the breaks Tuilagi does but can also bring the players around them into the game far better.

Luckily Gatland is selecting so Tuilagi will tour

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scott looks slow and just average in every part of his game. He's not good enough for the Lions by a long shot.

Roberts/JD 12
Tuilagi/BOD 13

I'd take Scott and Marshall over Tuilagi as centres. Purely because they can make the breaks Tuilagi does but can also bring the players around them into the game far better.

Luckily Gatland is selecting so Tuilagi will tour

I'd take Tuilagi, just not as a centre. He is a better winger than centre. See him filling a kind of Viaga Tuigamala type roll out wide. He needs space, he doesn't have the ability to create it unless someone drops a tackle.

I was surprised that Tuilagi wasn't moved to wing in place of Ashton for england this season.

He's not a better winger than centre though, he's played a handful of games on the wing and was nowhere near as effective.

Yes he can hang onto the ball a bit too much but nobody in the NH can carry like he can. He's a unique weapon that used correctly can destroy teams.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:He's not a better winger than centre though, he's played a handful of games on the wing and was nowhere near as effective.

Yes he can hang onto the ball a bit too much but nobody in the NH can carry like he can. He's a unique weapon that used correctly can destroy teams.

But he does that so rarely. I think he needs some space to work in. Good centres like BOD, JD2, Scott, Twelvetrees or Marshall would do that for him.
I havent seen him play on the wing for england, have seen him behave like a winger very often though.

He's never played on the wing for England, I don't even think he's played a top flight game there tbh.

Scott is not a good centre imo

Sgt_Pooly wrote:He's not a better winger than centre though, he's played a handful of games on the wing and was nowhere near as effective.

Yes he can hang onto the ball a bit too much but nobody in the NH can carry like he can. He's a unique weapon that used correctly can destroy teams.

Have to agree, rewatch the SA tour last year... WOW!! He can be a one man wrecking ball, but isn't utilised by England in the right way, infact what happens ooutside the 10 chanell doesn't seem to bother lancaster at all.

Using Tuilagi as a weapon in latter stages of game would be immense, the receiver style FB experiment has failed IMHO, and Farell distribution isn't effective enough and compounds the centre problem. Similar could be said for the Biggar Roberts axis, Roberts is dominating the backlines play (with or without ball) and Biggar doesn't have RP's range or accuracy/flair. I think the lions have 4 very strong centres, but only 1 10 with good enough distribution and flair to get them going the right way.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:He's never played on the wing for England, I don't even think he's played a top flight game there tbh.

Scott is not a good centre imo

yet

Maes,

I think you're fighting a losing battle in your Tuilagi on the wing idea, he may get a run out on the wing in the dirt trackers but for me he's nowhere near as good on the wing as the players likely to be chosen there.

I am a big fan of his and one combo that I hope gets a run out before the test is JD at 12 and Manu at 13

Good points Blue, have to agree tbh. Tuilagi looks a different player for Tigers, immense talent.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good points Blue, have to agree tbh. Tuilagi looks a different player for Tigers, immense talent.

Talent implies skill, Tuilagi is more ballast than skill

You obviously dislike him Maes, I'm not going to change your opinion. He's a special player imo.

Tuilagi for England isn't his best because he has no one inside him has a creative bone in their body, i don't want put the players down because their professional im not but barritt and Farrell ain't the players you need to get the best out tuilagi, where with JD2 and sexton inside him will get the best out of him. I think if England want the best out tuilagi they need to iver play burns and barritt or Farrell and twelvetrees some creativity

Good point WB...!

Still, since Tuilagi has been a mainstay in the England team, they have had trouble getting their wingers and fullback out the traps, whether Farrell or Flood at ten.

And I have seen some people suggest

Farrell, Roberts, Tuilagi for the lions midfield...!!!

Crazy in my opinion.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good points Blue, have to agree tbh. Tuilagi looks a different player for Tigers, immense talent.

The history of rugby is littered with immense talents at club level and yet cannot crank it up when given the chance at international level

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You obviously dislike him Maes, I'm not going to change your opinion. He's a special player imo.

I wasn't a fan at first, and if I'm honest I popped him inoto the PI big physical, dynamic but not particularly skillful box. He still isn't the finished article by a long shot, he does make mistakes, and he isn't a gifted ball player or natural defender, but what he offers is weaponry of the highest kind. If a 10/12/coach can utilise this weapon in the right way we might get a Roberts/BOD type scenario where he is given the best platform to highlight his positives, I wouldn't say he is in the typical PI box, he's climbed out of there IMHO but he still needs to develop his all round game.

He has converted me from a pessimist to a fan though Especially when at times last season he was single handedly carrying the English threat.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Good points Blue, have to agree tbh. Tuilagi looks a different player for Tigers, immense talent.

The history of rugby is littered with immense talents at club level and yet cannot crank it up when given the chance at international level

He has done it at Int in patches, he's ripped teams to shreds

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You obviously dislike him Maes, I'm not going to change your opinion. He's a special player imo.

No I really rate him, just not as a centre. Thought that was very clear.

maestegmafia wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You obviously dislike him Maes, I'm not going to change your opinion. He's a special player imo.

No I really rate him, just not as a centre. Thought that was very clear.

I can't see how you rate him as a winger when he is clearly not quick enough, nowhere near agile enough and has never played wing for club or country outside his very fresh beginings at Leicester!!!

I don't understand how you can rate him but not as a centre, he's only ever played centre.

It's like me saying I rate Adam Jones but not at prop