Centre problems for the Lions

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone see any glimmer of hope for the lions in their possible centre pairings?
Looking back on the Wales v. England game the best piece of centre play was the run, dummy and offload by Tipuric for Cuthbert's 2nd try.
Who does anyone realistically see as the 1st choice pairing?

Glas a du wrote:Well, so does Scott, but Twelevetrees is the better of them I think.

I still cant understand why they dropped Twelvetrees after the Ireland match. He really made such a difference to the England backline.

Matt Scott has had more international game time, more exposure and I think that gives him a nod ahead of Twelvetree's at the moment.

Barritt's tackling.... got sort of busted though when Tipuric sprinted away from him.
I think Twelvetrees would have had the gas to catch him.

That said Barritt is a very useful player and one who I think should be in the mix.... but limited.

maestegmafia wrote:My thoughts are that young Tuilagi is a lad who has dropped out of the reckoning massively on the last two weeks. He didn't have a good six nations and the finale showed him up as a player who has great pace and power but nothing else.

I certainly wouldnt take him as a centre, in my opinion he is a much better winger and could solve a lot of England issues if he was played wider, with Twelvetrees and Barritt given time to play together inside him.

If he was to go to Australia, I would take him as a back up winger. I think he could be the next Tuigamala.

In the centres we need players who can create and who don't feel the pressure in Big games, players who thrive on it.

BOD is definitely in my squad. Tuilagi is competing against Cuthbert, North, Gilroy, Visser and Maitland.

huh? our centers didnt get any ball so i'm unsure how you can say that?

10 Biggar
11 North
12 Scott
13 Roberts
14 Maitland
15 Halfpenny

I think that is a backline that would trouble the Aussies. with Phillips at 9 that is seriously dangerous. Perhaps have Hogg and tuilagi on the bench to come on as impact

Roberts and JD2 obvious pairing for Lions, also why is sexton being dubbed for the 10 shirt? never ever rated the lad.
I think Biggar is far better, he has consistently got the better of sexton over the last few seasons in the rabo.

viewtothegym wrote:Roberts and JD2 obvious pairing for Lions, also why is sexton being dubbed for the 10 shirt? never ever rated the lad.
I think Biggar is far better, he has consistently got the better of sexton over the last few seasons in the rabo.

should we just put the welsh 15 in there view?

nathan wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Roberts and JD2 obvious pairing for Lions, also why is sexton being dubbed for the 10 shirt? never ever rated the lad.
I think Biggar is far better, he has consistently got the better of sexton over the last few seasons in the rabo.

should we just put the welsh 15 in there view?

Well you know i would say yes but realistically i think the match day team will have a far better blend of all the home nations than people think.
Gatland is good at getting healthy competition in a squad and he has an eye for combinations.

I thought twelvetrees looked good as well. Matt Scott apparently has good stats from the 6 N and certainly enhanced his reputation but it might be a year too soon for him. I was disappointed in the welsh centres actually. Tuilagi looked one dimensional. Barrit was OK

If BOD is fit he starts - simples.
By some distance still the best 13

No one has put their hand up and claimed the 12 jersey so Gatland will play safe and pick Roberts - probably the correct call.

Will Gatland be swayed by the potential lack of meaningful games for players like Roberts? He won't have any high intensity finals to hone his match sharpness.

Roberts really didn't do much all tournament though untill the England game. I think he is the best 12 when on form but I'm not sure he has been consistent enough thusfar.

The lack of options really puts his stock up.

IMO this isn't difficult

12 Davies
13 BOD

22 Tuilagi

Roberts gradualy got better as the tournament progressed, if he continues this build up he wil be formidable on the fast dry Australian grounds. JD2 is not regarded as a good passer by the Welsh Management... including WG... so its unlikely that he will get the inside center role. Admitedly its hard to see the benefit of a centre who doesn't like passing over a centre that doesn't pass well but Roberts on the charge punches a bigger hole.

We should not play players out of their normal position so I don't see the benefit of Tuilagi moving to the wing where we already have big powerful or sharp fast natural wings.

My choice is

12 Roberts
13 BOD or Tuilagi

theslosty wrote:IMO this isn't difficult

12 Davies
13 BOD

22 Tuilagi

+1......Don't get why people are giving out about Tuilagi being one dimensional then putting Roberts in their team. If memory serves me correctly, Roberts was one of the most criticised, if not the most criticised Welsh player up until the after a few weeks back. I mean BOD obviously works well with a big crashballer, and Tuilagi is just as powerful and quicker than Roberts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9m-FnfIvA

So athletic, quick and powerful. Nice hand off and pass aswell.

12 BOD
13 Tuilagi

22 JDV

I wouldn't complain with your one theslosty

People keep saying about JD2 he can do everything as good as tuilagi or even better. JD2 is fast, can kick, changes direction brilliant, even crash ball. All tuilagi can do is crash ball and in six nations he couldn't even do that. So contenders for 13 in order would be BOD JD2 then tuilagi

viewtothegym wrote: He has consistently got the better of sexton over the last few seasons in the rabo.

How do you quantify that? Sexton probably plays half the games that Biggar plays in the Rabo. Sexton has way out performed Biggar in the Heineken cup though and outshone him last time Ireland played Wales.

Biggar is a very good player but there isnt much evidence to back up your claim that he is better than Sexton.

At the moment, for me, Tuilagi falls short against teams that can cope with his physical threat. Which Australia will.

It's not an easy call. I like both Scott Williams and Twelvetrees as players who are physical enough, but skilled too, but neither got enough of a chance in the 6N.

It would be a huge call to leave out BOD, if his bits of string/rubber bands are still holding him together.

9. Youngs
10. Sexton/Biggar/Farrell???
11.North
12.JD2/36
13.BOD/Manu/Roberts
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfp/Brown

36-Possiblilty of a bolter
No Phillips at 9? Sorry I just dont rate him. Gatland throws flower petals at his feet tho so he'll definetly go.

I just can't see past:

10. Sexton
12. JD
13. Tuilagi

I really don't see the fuss of tuilagi one good game against new Zealand and he's god, but proved in six nations that he's not that good

You need to watch some more rugby fella if you think Tuilagi arrived in the NZ game.

I've seen him have much better games than he did against NZ.

Check out some of his tries on YouTube and tell me he's not good.

Tuilagi & JD would be fantastic together.

Just to enlighten you on a few Tuilagi tries.....

Against Aus: https://youtu.be/8ZaVogod1mc

Against Wales: https://youtu.be/_oaUGJfUepY

Against France: https://youtu.be/RV9c8oorD-0

Ok apart from last years six nations and that new Zealand game he's done nothing he was dominated in the six nations he wasn't the guy that scored I think it was twice against Wales last year and punished defences, this year the guy is urine poor he scored a try against France which was accidental off side because an England player kicked it at his own player and then it came out to him, but he made next to nothing on his crash ball and he messed up two try scoring opportunity against Wales and did nothing in the other games.
BOD and JD2 im centre or twelvetrees and Roberts

Tuilagi completely dominated Bast in the France game, I take it you missed that one?

So this 21 year old has "done nothing" apart from that NZ game AND last 6N, you don't expect much!!

Check this one against the best defense in the NH:

https://youtu.be/tXvVwlO1JeM

Its all last year, I understand he's good player but he's not as good as others. Look at England Scotland centres were out standing twelvetrees and barritt were out standing tuilagi has done very little this season, he's running on last seasons gas same as George north he did very little this year.

12. 36
13. JD2
Think that would be our best combo at present.

Fair point Boil, I assumed you were a wum but perhaps not.

Tuilagi was rushed back from injury for the 6N, he wasn't at his peak.

When he his though he's a weapon and he scares the opposition. He will 100% tour with the Lions.

I've never really considered Bast a good centre. Lievremont was right in leaving him and Poitrenaud out of the RWC squad. I think Twelvetress is a very good centre, shame he didn't get more game time in the 6 Nations.

Or
12. Roberts
13. BOD
But just think we got more pace with 1st combo.
I see Tuilangi being used as impact(big one) of the bench. I havnt seen a huge amount of Scott so apologies to the Scottish posters.

Be to because them two can do it all kick, pass, crash ball, fast I think we need try and match them for skill rather than crash ball because as Wales found out it don't work.
he's got to tour your right he's got talent but he's mot a start we need out and out skill for 60 mins then let tuilagi batter away but Australia know what to expect with him and Roberts where BOD,twelvetrees and JD2 they can mix it up

I think if anything Tuilagi is underrated. Perhaps his style is rather unforgiving but you can't argue against his effectiveness and try-scoring record.

However, he is still too limited to start for the Lions. As an impact sub he would be great, but in fairness the Aussies know how to deal with this sort of player, and he would just limit the other backs too much for my liking.

Jonathan Davies is the all-round package, and I see no reason why he could not play 12, and I just don't think BOD can be left out. Just my opinion.

Wouldn't surprise me to Scott as a starter. He's a big defender like Roberts but had more of a chance to attack in the 6 Nations and he looked very potent. I'm not sure we got the 13 to compliment him though. My pick would be BOD or JD2 to partner him.

I like Bast Morg, he's had a good season for Toulon, he was well short of form pre WC.

Twelvetrees is a good player but has been a bit hit and miss for Gloucester, I don't think he should tour over Roberts etc.

The one time Ireland played well and BOD had a chance to shine he was instrumental in beating the eventual champions. Or was it that the one time BOD played well, Ireland shone and beat the champions?

If it's the former he should play if it's the latter then his consistency has to be questioned. Either way I think he should be on the plane.

BOD & Tuilagi for me.

England and Wales have done pretty well with uncreative but direct backlines in the 6N. Neither they (nor SA) get much joy with this approach against Australia, who seem to be more vulnerable to the pace and guile of NZ-style attack. Whilst North, Roberts, Tuilagi and Cuthbert are all very talented individually, we would be making it easy for the Aussies by playing all four of them. In terms of the centres, people like Marshall, Scott and Twelvetrees come into consideration on grounds of balance, even if they aren't terrific individual players.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:But is he better or potentially better than the other wingers that will be available to the Lions selectors?

Tough call.

Tuilagi certainly showed in the last two matches, and in the Autumn that he struggles at centre in a tight game. Played very well against the Kiwis but i am dubious to count that match... More so post six nations than before.

We need more intelligent players then Tuilagi, I hope that the selectors are looking at some alternatives. Matt Scott and Luke Marshall would go as centres before Tuilagi if it were my own choice.

For the lions maybe he would be a great winger to cover bench duty? He can play centre or wing, he is devastating if the game opens up.

How much ball do the England centres actually get when Farrell is at 10 though. This is the difficulty with Lions selections, what does/doesnt work for their international team may work well/worse for the lions.

Personally i think Gatland will go for a little and large centre combination.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just to enlighten you on a few Tuilagi tries.....

Against Aus: https://youtu.be/8ZaVogod1mc

Against Wales: https://youtu.be/_oaUGJfUepY

Against France: https://youtu.be/RV9c8oorD-0

Scoring tries is not an issue. Making tries for other people and being a team player in defence and attack is.

Twelvetrees - could he be the bolter? I know he is capped but he did look good even tho he was dropped again

TJ wrote:Twelvetrees - could he be the bolter? I know he is capped but he did look good even tho he was dropped again

As was said a number of times on various threads England dropping him made no sense. It would have been good to have seen him at a decent level of competition more often. It is well noted that he can be quite flakey for Glaws and previously tigers.

I would put Matt Scott, Marshall and Scot Williams above Twelvetrees.

maestegmafia wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just to enlighten you on a few Tuilagi tries.....

Against Aus: https://youtu.be/8ZaVogod1mc

Against Wales: https://youtu.be/_oaUGJfUepY

Against France: https://youtu.be/RV9c8oorD-0

Scoring tries is not an issue. Making tries for other people and being a team player in defence and attack is.

Bit like Matt Scott?

He made 42 tackles missing 6, carrying the ball 90m, he beat 3 defenders, 4 clean breaks, setting up 2 tries and bagging one for himself.

He had a good 6N. Scott, Roberts, 12 Trees, BOD & JD 2 would be my picks for the Lions probably.

I must admit I think Scott is very average

He's not very average. He has lots of potential. This tour is a little early for him and Gatland won't like him anyway.

Having potential doesn't mean he's not currently average though, which I think he is.

I would be very surprised if he toured.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Having potential doesn't mean he's not currently average though, which I think he is.

I would be very surprised if he toured.

He does what an inside centre should though, he makes his tackles, creates space and isn't afraid to take the ball on himself when nothing else is on.

He may be average but so have the alternatives in the centres in the 6N IMO, Fofana aside...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Having potential doesn't mean he's not currently average though, which I think he is.

I would be very surprised if he toured.

He does what an inside centre should though, he makes his tackles, creates space and isn't afraid to take the ball on himself when nothing else is on.

He may be average but so have the alternatives in the centres in the 6N IMO, Fofana aside...

I thought Scot, Marshall and Twelvetrees looked the most gifted inside centres.

All played very well. Twelvetrees not given enough game time to prove he won't have off games as he does at club level.

Twelvetrees was really strong against Scotland as was Marshall. However isn't Marshall injured and out for the rest of the season? Or am I making that up?

Anyway I reckon Roberts will go, although probably for the wrong reasons, it'll be familiarity that gets him on the tour. He was good against England but he wasn't great for the first few games. Perhaps because he had the spectre of his medical exams hanging over him?

I think Gatland will be licking his lips at the potential for Roberts and BOD linking up so well again.

Roberts started to get his a game together against the scots. He played very well at the end and looks to have regained his best.

Could well have been his studying.

Seems to have changed form since.

The issue is at inside centre as at outside there are options; BOD, Davies, Tuilagi who could all do a decent job. At inside I think only Jamie Roberts is decent and after that we are into gambling time.