wales

I know Wales have a urine poor record against SH teams but we are always close to beating them and i know its not the same as beating them but it means we are there or there abouts each time. are Wales closer to beating the SH teams or just same as they were 10 years ago miles away because i cant remember us having hammerings anymore against them.

We're not miles away, I'd say about 350 yards from beating Aus and SA and about 3/4's of a mile from beating NZ

no but serious now

Wales compete well at home without ever looking like winning and seem some way short of a realistic chance away from home and this is why the lions must comprise mainly an English spine to the side. Those with the confidence and ability to win in the SH.

Spine

GloriousEmpire wrote:Wales compete well at home without ever looking like winning and seem some way short of a realistic chance away from home and this is why the lions must comprise mainly an English spine to the side. Those with the confidence and ability to win in the SH.

England didn't have the confidence to beat wales never mind beat Aus. the spine of the English side was battered from 1-23 against wales yea maybe one game but lets be honest they wasnt that impressive at all in six nations

Wales have been frustratingly close for about 3 years now.

A 1pt loss to SA in June, followed by a 2pt loss in the Autumn

A 1pts loss in the WC

5 games against Aus, all within a score (including a 1pt and 2pt loss)

I think that they will come eventually, Wales are closer to the SH teams than they have been for 40 years - sooner or later they will close out those games.

It is very very frustrating for a fan, but solid foundations are being build for the international game at least.

All I hear there is "loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, excuse, excuse, excuse".

I'm sorry but let's be frank. Wales are a good team 1-15 who lack a bit of depth. That depth is coming, and on their day they can match anyone. But they play on confidence, travel poorly and rely heavily on their 16th man which is the Cardiff stadium crowd.

Away in Australia the Lions need to be bolstered by big game players who have "been there, done that" and not have the mental weakness that comes from doubting themselves.

They need the likes of Robshaw. Ashton, Foden, Farrell, Morgan, Tuilagi; guys who know what it is to beat New Zealand and Australia.

Ashton? Get real... Who needs Ashton in his current form? Georgia maybe

Whocares, let me explain my reasoning.

Ashton is a special personality, who gets under the skins of the Australians.Firstly it would give us endless opportunities to show replays of that length of the field try he scored against them, and the Ash Splash, and secondly Australians don't like being wound up and it often puts them off, just look at their world cup campaign. Imagine Ashton versus Cooper in the war of egos! This could spark off something that would destabilise the Aussies completely.

But that's it the only team who have become a regular team to beat Australia are Scotland. the lions could go on tour with out tuilagi, Morgan Farrell, robshaw etc and be as good with out them is there a single English player a dead curt to get in the test team I personally don't think they are, Jones is better than cole, BOD and JD2 are better than tuilagi, Warburton, tipric and brown are above robshaw. England ain't used to beating any of the SH teams new Zealand was a one off it comes around once in a blue moon get over it

Warburton and Tipuric together were proven to be better than Robshaw...but what about Robshaw and Tipuric with Morgan at 8? And behind the Welsh front row?

But no Warburton took apart robshaw did you not see his turn overs metres made by him tackles he destroyed the English and scotish back row and tips was a different class, and how can Morgan be put in over faletau, faletau has been the most consistent player for Wales along with halfpenny. Morgan can't stay fit long enough to even compare to faletau

You can't compare directly in a game where one team dominated. It was a matter of the backrow balance being wrong for England, who were missing Morgan.

Some very interesting stuff there GE.

Always to read a different perspective.

Not sure I agree with too much that you say.

New Zealand still embarrass us. So no not close.

Wales vs South Africa professional era

Overall

17 matches, 16 losses, 1 win
Points difference 285
Points difference per match 17

At home

9 matches, 8 losses, 1 win
Points difference 70
Points difference per match 8

Away

6 matches, 6 losses
Points difference 186
Points difference per match 31

Neutral ground

2 matches, 2 losses
Points difference 9
Points difference per match 4.5


Wales vs Australia professional era

Overall

20 matches, 17 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 218
Points difference per match 11

At home

11 matches, 8 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 77
Points difference per match 7

Away from home
8 matches, 8 losses
Points difference 138
Points difference per match 17

Neutral venue
1 match, 1 loss
Points difference 2

You can compare directly because there were 3 players that are all competing for the same position. Robshaw plays more like an 8 the way he drops back covering kicks and his turn overs now and again. I like Morgan because of the way he came to the top by playing for merthyr rfc etc but he's really not that good he carries well but that's about it Beattie is a better all round player. And if England had won the game every one would have been saying how good the back row was but the fact they lost everyone is just putting all the blame on them or saying things like Wales had the ref in the pocket, Morgan wouldn't have made a difference because England were always on the back foot, even Englands best ball carriers tuilagi and barritt were always getting hit back

Biltong wrote:Wales vs South Africa professional era

Overall

17 matches, 16 losses, 1 win
Points difference 285
Points difference per match 17

At home

9 matches, 8 losses, 1 win
Points difference 70
Points difference per match 8

Away

6 matches, 6 losses
Points difference 186
Points difference per match 31

Neutral ground

2 matches, 2 losses
Points difference 9
Points difference per match 4.5


Wales vs Australia professional era

Overall

20 matches, 17 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 218
Points difference per match 11

At home

11 matches, 8 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 77
Points difference per match 7

Away from home
8 matches, 8 losses
Points difference 138
Points difference per match 17

Neutral venue
1 match, 1 loss
Points difference 2

Now compare that with the last 4 years

Realistically speaking, under the current structure of the domestic game and development systems in place, at best Wales can be the best side in the northern hemisphere and take the occasional scalp from the SH teams. But as far as being in the consistent top 3 and regularly beating the the big 3? We're still a fair bit away from that.

wales606 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Wales vs South Africa professional era

Overall

17 matches, 16 losses, 1 win
Points difference 285
Points difference per match 17

At home

9 matches, 8 losses, 1 win
Points difference 70
Points difference per match 8

Away

6 matches, 6 losses
Points difference 186
Points difference per match 31

Neutral ground

2 matches, 2 losses
Points difference 9
Points difference per match 4.5


Wales vs Australia professional era

Overall

20 matches, 17 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 218
Points difference per match 11

At home

11 matches, 8 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 77
Points difference per match 7

Away from home
8 matches, 8 losses
Points difference 138
Points difference per match 17

Neutral venue
1 match, 1 loss
Points difference 2

Now compare that with the last 4 years

SA3 matches 3 losses, 2 losses at home, 1 loss in the world cup. 8 points difference

Australia, 8 matches 8 losses, points difference 52

Biltong wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Biltong wrote:Wales vs South Africa professional era

Overall

17 matches, 16 losses, 1 win
Points difference 285
Points difference per match 17

At home

9 matches, 8 losses, 1 win
Points difference 70
Points difference per match 8

Away

6 matches, 6 losses
Points difference 186
Points difference per match 31

Neutral ground

2 matches, 2 losses
Points difference 9
Points difference per match 4.5


Wales vs Australia professional era

Overall

20 matches, 17 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 218
Points difference per match 11

At home

11 matches, 8 losses, 2 wins, 1 draw
Points difference 77
Points difference per match 7

Away from home
8 matches, 8 losses
Points difference 138
Points difference per match 17

Neutral venue
1 match, 1 loss
Points difference 2

Now compare that with the last 4 years

SA3 matches 3 losses, 2 losses at home, 1 loss in the world cup. 8 points difference

Australia, 8 matches 8 losses, points difference 52

Now just take away that really horrible game against Aus and the average PD is only a few points for the last 4 years.