Ireland Tour of USA & Canada

First topic message reminder :

Ok so we're headed over for a two test tour of Canada and USA. Personally I think that there is little to be gained from such a tour. A once off match with USA and another with the Canadians but ce la vie.

The point is who do we want to see out there. We will have some guys on Lions Tour - I suspect Healy, Best, O'Connell, O'Brien, Sexton, O'Driscoll, Bowe and Kearney.

Other guys - like Mike Ross - I wouldn't bother bringing on tour. The man is currently invaluable as we have no depth. Giving him the Summer off rugby increases his longevity and also allows us to find new options.

Our objectives simply should be:

- To win both games
- To find new options in centre
- To find new options at tighthead
- To find new options at fullback
- To play for the full 80 minutes (like against Fiji)

I would be looking at the following team:

01 David Kilcoyne
02 Sean Cronin
03 Stephen Archer

Kilcoyne and Archer were our backups in the 6 Nations and I think its logical we give them a go. Sherry would be a good choice in that it makes an all Munster front row but I think its important to get our props used to scrummaging with a different hooker.

04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Mike McCarthy

Assuming that Paul O'Connell makes the Lions, why not keep our lock pairing from the 6 Nations. We need to make changes in other positions so some continuity is important.

06 Iain Henderson
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 Jamie Heaslip (c)

Not a popular captain this is a good tour for Heaslip to become the leader he needs to be. The "grown ups" of the team are gone or rested, this is the chance he gets to prove his merits. I think O'Donnell is a better #7 than Peter O'Mahony who I think would make a good bench player. We need to learn how to use a bench and O'Mahonys aggression will raise the intensity whenever he is introduced.

09 Kieran Marmion
10 Ian Madigan

The all Ulster pairing of Marshall and Jackson is probably the more likely given they were ahead in the 6 Nations and already know each others game (especially with Marshall playing at 12). However I think Madigan needs to go into the Summer as the leading flyhalf and Marshall to me is the ideal #21. Its why he looks so good for Ulster, he comes in and changes the pace of the game attacking the fringes of the breakdown like Care does for England. Marmion has been a stand out player for Connacht starting every game and deserves to start. Let Murray have a break along with Reddan and Boss - we know what these guys can do.

12 Luke Marshall
13 Darren Cave

It makes sense. We always knew it really. He hasn't got bags of pace and he ain't the next O'Driscoll but he is an outside centre (a very difficult position to develop). There aren't many out and out #13s in world rugby, why ignore the only proper one we have outside of BOD. He's done the business for Ulster and sandwiched between Marshall and Gilroy he should be in his comfort zone delivering what we saw them do against Fiji. Marshall has been a good introduction during the 6 Nations and should continue in the role.

11 Simon Zebo
14 Craig Gilroy
15 Robbie Henshaw

Regardless of whether Kearney makes the Lions Tour I think its important to see Henshaw start at 15. We badly need options at fullback, we've seen Zebo at 15 but realistically Henshaw should play there. Zebo and Gilroy have I think always looked great for Ireland and should add competition when Bowe returns.

BTW if O'Brien has gotten bigger, has he really lost pace anyway? He still looks extremely quick to me. The problem with his carrying this season has been the tactics. We need other options to carry into contact than simply using O'Brien primarily and Healy secondary.

Which is why Henderson is a huge prospect, and why we could also do with another big runner in the back row. Ferris was never properly replaced, unless you count O'Brien. Who has been playing 7.

Those stats probably are some way off but firstly Henderson is immensely strong and proves it on the pitch, but from what I can see he doesn't look all that heavy. POM displays some fierce physicality on the pitch and that is what matters, not his appearance.

Notch wrote:Surely Robbie Diack has played himself onto the plane now.

Agree, he has played at a consistently high-standard in ever game I've seen him play in recently. He's always involved and effective. That's the mark of an international.

Yes, but the point is that Henderson IS big and strong. He clearly has muscle where it matters (like his legs/back) despite maybe not having the "mirror muscles". The guy is 115kg. Like you said appearance doesn't matter. The irish weightlifter Clarence also has bigger legs than any rugby player his size by a fair bit, yet again his arms etc are not that big. The muscles that people seem to notice, he doesn't possess.

O'Mahony on the other hand still looks like he could do with the added bulk and strength. Yes he is very physical, but he hasn't got the size to back it up in contact. Like I said earlier there are players with his physicality and aggression, with more added bulk. They will win in the contact area.

Now, O'Mahony has very good technique in contact though, that is something I have noticed. This is why he can sometimes make good ground. He is a very rangy runner. However I think he is a perfect example of someone who could do with gaining a few kilos more. That and his good technique could create quite a devastating option with ball in hand.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:BTW if O'Brien has gotten bigger, has he really lost pace anyway? He still looks extremely quick to me. The problem with his carrying this season has been the tactics. We need other options to carry into contact than simply using O'Brien primarily and Healy secondary.

Which is why Henderson is a huge prospect, and why we could also do with another big runner in the back row. Ferris was never properly replaced, unless you count O'Brien. Who has been playing 7.

I think O'Brien has definitely lost some pace. I recall him breaking through the Scottish line and even then he looked laboured as he approached the covering defender. Having said that I think the main reasons for the decrease in his explosive breaks that made him so exciting in 2011 are tactics and opposition inevitably recognising his threat.

I don't completely disagree with your other remarks but I find it amazing that Ireland now apparently need more ball-carriers in their back row, a complete u-turn from previous thinking. Heaslip seems to be finding his old self which could help and POM carried well in the 6N, the problem was that this was too often in the wider channels.

Ireland need SOB back at 6, Heaslip to find his form and Henry or TOD offer the graft and the work at the breakdown to free up SOB in particular. That is well balanced IMO, and Henderson and POM aren't far off.

theslosty wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:BTW if O'Brien has gotten bigger, has he really lost pace anyway? He still looks extremely quick to me. The problem with his carrying this season has been the tactics. We need other options to carry into contact than simply using O'Brien primarily and Healy secondary.

Which is why Henderson is a huge prospect, and why we could also do with another big runner in the back row. Ferris was never properly replaced, unless you count O'Brien. Who has been playing 7.

I think O'Brien has definitely lost some pace. I recall him breaking through the Scottish line and even then he looked laboured as he approached the covering defender. Having said that I think the main reasons for the decrease in his explosive breaks that made him so exciting in 2011 are tactics and opposition inevitably recognising his threat.

I don't completely disagree with your other remarks but I find it amazing that Ireland now apparently need more ball-carriers in their back row, a complete u-turn from previous thinking. Heaslip seems to be finding his old self which could help and POM carried well in the 6N, the problem was that this was too often in the wider channels.

Ireland need SOB back at 6, Heaslip to find his form and Henry or TOD offer the graft and the work at the breakdown to free up SOB in particular. That is well balanced IMO, and Henderson and POM aren't far off.

Spot on, Losty man. I could say, Ive being saying this since the EOS days but.. I wont. We need a groundhog 7. Healy carries, Stauss carrries, Heaslip carries, Cronin carries, SOB carries, Locky carries, Ruddock carries, how much carrying do we want here?

Need someone to actually secure the ball, to allow others to carry it in the 1st place. Capiche?

Wonder will Joe bring Jenno in now? Man.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

rodders wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think the main problem is a large fear from parents that lifting heavy weights will ruin their children's development. Which, although understandable that they would be so protective, is so unfounded and outdated.

Rory I was at a seminar with Chris Shiels last year and the problems are at schools level, where the guys aren't doing the required strength and conditioning work. They are lifting heavy weights but have lots of muscle imbalances meaning when the come into the academies they have to start from scratch doing core work and body weight exercises, light resistance for a few years to sort this out before they can load them back up with heavy weights.

In NZ the pro coaches are involved with the schools and all the players are on proper programs so once the players come into the academies they are good to go skills and conditioning wise, which is what Afoa was eluding to.

Chris and Brian McLaughlin are now trying to change this and work in the schools getting the lads doing more core work, grappling type stuff. Its a major reason we have so many injuries too.

In RL they have the academy kids doing clean and jerks, overhead presses and core compound exercises from 13-14 with very low weights or body weight, emphasising correct form and technique. They build up the central nervous system and then when they are developed at 17-18 they can just bang huge weight on.

Plus in school we don't know any better than to do bench press and curls for the gurls. Plus a hatred for squats. Which leads to extreme shoulder and knee problems. Balance is key as you say.

I'll give you a practical example Rory. A a lot of rugby players are big into bench press and squats - pushing exercises which have direct benefit for the sport. However according to Chris athletes need to train the antagonistic muscles to agonistic in a 3:1 ratio. So rugby players need to train pulling exercises like lat pull downs and seated rows 3 times as much as bench/shoulder press to avoid muscle imbalances. The primary role in training should be to stretch the agonist and strengthen the antagonist.

Guys come into the academies with really powerful triceps and shoulders but relatively weak lats, back and cores and need two years of training before they can lift weights again or play to a high level.

Another big problem apparently is tightness around the hip girdle and gluts which leads to hamstring and groins problems. This is caused by young people being so sedentary nowadays as well as a lack of stretching/strengthening work during the growth phase.

This is why so many of our players are in their early 20's before they are physically ready for first team rugby and in their mid late twenties before they are fully developed, they aren't doing proper training at schools level.

Ireland isn't Leinster. Not to mention a lot of those players (like Ruddock and McLaughlin and usually Heaslip) are not actually that good at carrying. We need players more effective at it.

We need balance. We have a few guys to play the "groundhog" role nowadays thankfully. O'Donnell isn't a defensive style 7 like Jennings but he works so well within the Munster back row right now.

If we are going for the most balanced back row at the minute, we would pick the Munster back row. Though I know it would get rocked internationally, due to lack of strength/size. So we need to mix it up a little.

6) SOB
7) TOD
8) Heaslip

Best we can do right now I reckon.

Rodders - that is why I think the olympic weightlifters are the most balanced strength athletes in the world. The emphasis is on pulling and overhead movements (snatch and clean & jerk) and squatting. In the world of strength sports, they say that the back and legs are key to any strong athlete. That is exactly what they emphasise.

theslosty wrote:
I don't completely disagree with your other remarks but I find it amazing that Ireland now apparently need more ball-carriers in their back row, a complete u-turn from previous thinking. Heaslip seems to be finding his old self which could help and POM carried well in the 6N, the problem was that this was too often in the wider channels.

Ireland need more ball carriers full stop, not in the back row per se. We have a real inability to get across the gain line and get in behind defences in order to build an attacking platform. Like Rory says Williams plays that role at Ulster.

For me you need two big men in the 3/4s, a dynamic carrier in the back row and at least 2 in the tight 5 who can do the hard yards, as a minimum. Ireland really only have had Healy and SOB recently which makes us too easy to defend against.

Exactly. A loosehead prop and an openside flanker doesn't seem like enough to carry through heavy traffic.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Rodders - that is why I think the olympic weightlifters are the most balanced strength athletes in the world. The emphasis is on pulling and overhead movements (snatch and clean & jerk) and squatting. In the world of strength sports, they say that the back and legs are key to any strong athlete. That is exactly what they emphasise.

That's what sprinters work on most for that explosive out the gate power. It also stops them getting injuries as often (strong core and back strength) in a sport where fast twitch muscle is golden

We suffered from the ball carriers we have being poor. We have lots of guys who are playing the role of ball carriers but not actually very powerful in contact.

I think it's a coaching issue, it usually is when you have players being asked to do things they can't do well as their main job.

I think not getting the best out of Trimble has hurt us, one of the few powerful runners we have in the backline.

I think we were spoilt with David Wallace who was just a complete physical freak.

Really sad news: the young fellow Donal Walsh (15 year old from Kerry) has died from cancer. He was just inspirational in that he was recently campaigning about teenage suicide. Big rugby fan. wanted to play for Munster - Paul O'Connell was fairly pally with him as was Shane Jennings. Dan Carter phoned him recently and Donal tweeted him back thanking him.

Poor Kid. That was quicker than I thought it would be. A young man so full of life knowing he had little of it left.

His message was a strong one. Brent Pope who suffers from depressive episodes said he was really affected by Donal Walsh and his message that whilst some try to get off the world, others would deseprately love to stick around.

Sin é wrote:I think we were spoilt with David Wallace who was just a complete physical freak.

Really sad news: the young fellow Donal Walsh (15 year old from Kerry) has died from cancer. He was just inspirational in that he was recently campaigning about teenage suicide. Big rugby fan. wanted to play for Munster - Paul O'Connell was fairly pally with him as was Shane Jennings. Dan Carter phoned him recently and Donal tweeted him back thanking him.

That is sad, saw that this morning. Didn't really know about him until seeing a newspaper article on him recently. Seemed like a real inspiring person who showed incredible spirit and strength in unimaginable adversity. RIP.

One of the good ones. RIP

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I really struggle to believe those stats regarding O'Mahony and O'Brien. O'Brien is 3 cm smaller (allegedly) and looks very bulky. O'Mahony just looks wirey (like Donnacha Ryan). The difference between him and Hendy (who also looks heavier than he is) is that Hendy has huge legs. O'Mahony just looks quite skinny.

According to the stats, O'Mahony is bigger than Jerome Kaino. I do not believe that.

Looks can be deceiving.

In the photo below he is standing next to 19st prop John Ryan. Compare him too to Zebo who weights 15st and its not hard to believe he is about 2st heavier. He tackled Healy a few weeks back and sent Healy backwards which isn't someting you see often. POM, like Henderson has big legs too. Ireland were using him as a ball carrier for a reason.




While we're talking about weights etc it was interesting that the Munster backrow were about a stone a man heavier than the Clermont backrow in the HEC semi. The Clermont secondrow were about a stone a man heavier than the Munster second row. I thought it was typical of the differences between French and Irish player development. The French prefer a more mobile backrow and bulky locks while Ireland prefers more all rounders.

Sin é wrote:I think we were spoilt with David Wallace who was just a complete physical freak.

Really sad news: the young fellow Donal Walsh (15 year old from Kerry) has died from cancer. He was just inspirational in that he was recently campaigning about teenage suicide. Big rugby fan. wanted to play for Munster - Paul O'Connell was fairly pally with him as was Shane Jennings. Dan Carter phoned him recently and Donal tweeted him back thanking him.

RIP Donal Walsh. Well done to the lad for being so strong.

Gents it seems some of you want to discuss this issue, because it is not related to the topic and I don't want you to feel you are not allowed to discuss it, I will remove the posts related to suicide and post it under News and current affairs.

This way we can keep to the OP's topic and those who want to discuss this issue can do so off topic.

I think that is only fair to the OP.

So that's how it would work in Orwell's 1984? Clean sheet?

I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I hope my past life will get a clean sheet too in this new age of wet-wipe reality

Anyway, on to something called a Tour to USA and Canada. Might the guys who go highlight some other stay-at-home guys who are on reserve list for Lions call ups?

Any more of your lip fly and you're going to thread 101 ....

anyone know when the squad is announced?

After the Amlin final Pete.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:After the Amlin final Pete.

Merci bien monsieur.
You making it to the Amlin yourself?

The 28-man Ireland squad to tour North America in June will be announced on Sunday. Les Kiss, the interim head coach, is tasked with selection but Joe Schmidt will be consulted in the process.
It remains unclear whether senior Ireland players, like Rory Best and the currently injured Gordon D’Arcy (calf), will tour or be rested.
With Jamie Heaslip, Paul O’Connell and Brian O’Driscoll all going on the British and Irish Lions tour of Australia, a new captain will be chosen. Best, of course, captained Ireland against Scotland last year.
The team will prepare under Kiss along with other coaches Anthony Foley and Gert Smal from Monday, May 27th in Carton House, a week after the Lions make use of the Kildare hotel and facilities.
Schmidt doesn’t take up the position of Ireland head coach until July 1st but will attend the US Eagles game in Houston, Texas on June 8th and the Canada match in Toronto on June 15th.
This is one of three Ireland tours next month. Former Ulster hooker Allen Clarke and Munster skills coach Ian Costello are taking a development squad to Georgia for the Tblisi Cup, while Mike Ruddock’s under-20s will compete in the IRB Junior World Cup in France.
Kiss will also be picking the 26-man “Emerging” squad that plays three games in seven days against Georgia (June 7th), a South Africa President’s XV (June 11th) and Uruguay (June 16th). The under-20s face Australia, Fiji and New Zealand between June 5th and 13th in Vannes, northwest France.
Meanwhile, Casey Laulala’s proposed loan move to New Zealand Super Rugby franchise the Chiefs has been scuppered by the NZRU. New Zealand media reported that Munster coach Rob Penney gave the former All Black centre permission to return home after the injury prone World Cup winner Richard Kahui damaged his shoulder again.
However, players based overseas cannot register in Super Rugby after April 1st.
Ulster prop John Afoa is expected to recover from the hamstring injury that ruled him out of Ulster’s semi-final victory over the Scarlets before the Rabo Pro12 final against Leinster on May 25th in Dublin.
A medical update on D’Arcy, O’Driscoll’s back spasm and Seán O’Brien is expected at Leinster’s press briefing this afternoon ahead of the Amlin Challenge Cup final against Stade Francais on Friday.

-The Irish Times



Very interesting to note that Penny was willing to give up Lualala. Now that means one of two things: either he wanted to get another foreign import in or he thinks Munster have sufficient centre cover in Earls and believe that is where his future lies.

If it is second of these options, then Penny has dropped a couple of levels as a coach in my books

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Very interesting to note that Penny was willing to give up Lualala. Now that means one of two things: either he wanted to get another foreign import in or he thinks Munster have sufficient centre cover in Earls and believe that is where his future lies.

If it is second of these options, then Penny has dropped a couple of levels as a coach in my books

Or maybe that Laulua simply wants to leave Munster and Penney doesn't want to keep a player who wants to be elsewhere?

rodders wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Very interesting to note that Penny was willing to give up Lualala. Now that means one of two things: either he wanted to get another foreign import in or he thinks Munster have sufficient centre cover in Earls and believe that is where his future lies.

If it is second of these options, then Penny has dropped a couple of levels as a coach in my books

Or maybe that Laulua simply wants to leave Munster and Penney doesn't want to keep a player who wants to be elsewhere?

That could be true, Rodders but I hear Munster have a special buried pit where not nice things happen to players who want out. Maybe Penney just doesn't like fingernail pulling and is generally squeamish about chains and things.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

The 28-man Ireland squad to tour North America in June will be announced on Sunday. Les Kiss, the interim head coach, is tasked with selection but Joe Schmidt will be consulted in the process.
It remains unclear whether senior Ireland players, like Rory Best and the currently injured Gordon D’Arcy (calf), will tour or be rested.
With Jamie Heaslip, Paul O’Connell and Brian O’Driscoll all going on the British and Irish Lions tour of Australia, a new captain will be chosen. Best, of course, captained Ireland against Scotland last year.
The team will prepare under Kiss along with other coaches Anthony Foley and Gert Smal from Monday, May 27th in Carton House, a week after the Lions make use of the Kildare hotel and facilities.
Schmidt doesn’t take up the position of Ireland head coach until July 1st but will attend the US Eagles game in Houston, Texas on June 8th and the Canada match in Toronto on June 15th.
This is one of three Ireland tours next month. Former Ulster hooker Allen Clarke and Munster skills coach Ian Costello are taking a development squad to Georgia for the Tblisi Cup, while Mike Ruddock’s under-20s will compete in the IRB Junior World Cup in France.
Kiss will also be picking the 26-man “Emerging” squad that plays three games in seven days against Georgia (June 7th), a South Africa President’s XV (June 11th) and Uruguay (June 16th). The under-20s face Australia, Fiji and New Zealand between June 5th and 13th in Vannes, northwest France.
Meanwhile, Casey Laulala’s proposed loan move to New Zealand Super Rugby franchise the Chiefs has been scuppered by the NZRU. New Zealand media reported that Munster coach Rob Penney gave the former All Black centre permission to return home after the injury prone World Cup winner Richard Kahui damaged his shoulder again.
However, players based overseas cannot register in Super Rugby after April 1st.
Ulster prop John Afoa is expected to recover from the hamstring injury that ruled him out of Ulster’s semi-final victory over the Scarlets before the Rabo Pro12 final against Leinster on May 25th in Dublin.
A medical update on D’Arcy, O’Driscoll’s back spasm and Seán O’Brien is expected at Leinster’s press briefing this afternoon ahead of the Amlin Challenge Cup final against Stade Francais on Friday.

-The Irish Times



Very interesting to note that Penny was willing to give up Lualala. Now that means one of two things: either he wanted to get another foreign import in or he thinks Munster have sufficient centre cover in Earls and believe that is where his future lies.

If it is second of these options, then Penny has dropped a couple of levels as a coach in my books

I thought it was just going to be a loan deal?

edit: found the article that said it was a short term loan.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,15991_8710361,00.html

Loan deal it is. So that would mean they would not be allowed another non-Irish qualified player so he thinks that Downey, Earls, Keatley and JJ can cover the centres.......?

Rob, Rob, Rob...

I still think that Les Kiss and Gert Smal sounds like a rather x-rated offer from a young lady in Amsterdam.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Loan deal it is. So that would mean they would not be allowed another non-Irish qualified player so he thinks that Downey, Earls, Keatley and JJ can cover the centres.......?

Rob, Rob, Rob...

Pete, judge Rob on results.

ps - there is also Ivan Dineen (the Jean de Villiers look-a-like) and Bohane who seems to be highly rated, not to mention young Scannell in the U20s.

Looks like Rob is well set on developing a team of local lads playing for Munster.

edit: Casey might only have been gone for 6 weeks (and would be finished playing by the start of the Rugby Championship so would get a decent break).

Sin é wrote:
Pete, judge Rob on results.

OK then .... Rob yer useless hi!....

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Pete, judge Rob on results.

OK then .... Rob yer useless hi!....

Pity he didn't take that attitude with Deccie.

It just frustrates me that Rob see's Earls as a centre still. He does see Earls more than I do, is significantly more qualified to judge however I still get this very strong feeling that Earls is not a better centre than winger and I have felt this very strongly for some time.

I'd also say that Earls, in my mind, will never become an international class centre where as he is/could become an international class winger.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Pete, judge Rob on results.

OK then .... Rob yer useless hi!....

Pity he didn't take that attitude with Deccie.

Two doodlepip comments there, guys

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Pete, judge Rob on results.

OK then .... Rob yer useless hi!....

Pity he didn't take that attitude with Deccie.

U19 World Cup, Ireland A 6Ns, a couple of Celtic Cups/Celtic Leagues, 2 Heineken Cup, a Grand Slam, Churchill Cup, IRB International Coach of the Year 2009. First win in SH in 30 years!

Joe has a bit to do yet

But Sin é...ten years of success doesn't give you a licence to have another ten years of dross.

Nope, not claiming Kidney was all dross.... but asking how long you use past 'results' to furnish an opinion of a coach's present value?

The guys are joking about Penney of course. It's only a first season and the tail end of it looked much brighter than the beginning.... but amassing a portfolio of results somewhere else only still gets you about two years of grace in your next job.

Your clock has already started with Joe, as an example

We need to get that young scrum half James Hart (who now starts for Grenoble) capped for Ireland immediately. I watched him a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed and he can kick goals.

His mother is from Toulouse ,so the French could cap him at any stage.

Doug Howlett has had to retire with a shoulder injury according to ESPN on twitter. Big blow for Munster.

But interesting too- it opens up a NIQ slot and presumably Howlett was on a good deal too, so a bit of money to spend on wages- where should Munster look to strengthen?

How are Munster at LH next year,DuPreez and Horan are gone so who's back up to Kilcoyne?

I think they might need a NIQ 10 if RoG leaves,Keatley is the only other 10 on the books with any experience,if he got injured they'd have to throw Hanrahan in at the deep end.

Notch wrote:Doug Howlett has had to retire with a shoulder injury according to ESPN on twitter. Big blow for Munster.

But interesting too- it opens up a NIQ slot and presumably Howlett was on a good deal too, so a bit of money to spend on wages- where should Munster look to strengthen?

I sensed that was coming. Funny how the two curly headed SH fliers (Doug and Isa) leave at the same time. Both sets of fans really took each player to their hearts and they in turn gave more than enough of themselves to their adopted Provinces. I think they even became favourites in an overall Irish context as other Provincial fans enjoyed watching them do their thing over the years.

Wonder what Doug's plans are now? Go home? Take up a coaching position with Munster? Would love him to hang around in some capacity

SecretFly wrote:I sensed that was coming. Funny how the two curly headed SH fliers (Doug and Isa) leave at the same time. Both sets of fans really took each player to their hearts and they in turn gave more than enough of themselves to their adopted Provinces. I think they even became favourites in an overall Irish context as other Provincial fans enjoyed watching them do their thing over the years.

Absolutely, it's been a joy to watch players of such class and calibre grace Irish soil and also the way they have embraced their adopted provinces. Ulster have been lucky over the past few years with our signings but these guys have been pretty special and raised the bar for NIQs.

I don't expect Munster to bother signing a NIQ replacement. I can see the money being saved as the stadium repayment isn't going well.

Keith Earls to replace Howlett as a back three option along with Felix Jones, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy, Andrew Conway, Simon Zebo and academy player Ronan O'Mahony.

I'd expect Ivan Dineen and Cian Bohane to supplement Hanrahan/Keatley Downey and Laulala in the midfield.

If we were to sign a foreign guy it would be backup at scrumhalf or second row.

SecretFly wrote:Take up a coaching position with Munster? Would love him to hang around in some capacity

There are rumours of his being Munster Team Manager like Shaun Payne did when he retired.

During his injuries this year he stepped in as Team Manager replacing Niall O'Donovan.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Loan deal it is. So that would mean they would not be allowed another non-Irish qualified player so he thinks that Downey, Earls, Keatley and JJ can cover the centres.......?

Rob, Rob, Rob...

Um, it would have been a loan deal finishing in July (at the latest) - so Laulala wouldn't have missed any time for Munster next season

asoreleftshoulder wrote:How are Munster at LH next year,DuPreez and Horan are gone so who's back up to Kilcoyne.

James Cronin. He won Academy Player of the Year this year and was in our Heineken Cup squad. Also du Preez is under contract until 2014 no?

red_stag wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:How are Munster at LH next year,DuPreez and Horan are gone so who's back up to Kilcoyne.

James Cronin. He won Academy Player of the Year this year and was in our Heineken Cup squad. Also du Preez is under contract until 2014 no?

According to this he's gone

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/11934.php

Ah had not seen that. I guess John Ryan will be playing there.

Danny Barnes to leave Munster and play abroad?