Players who polarise opinions

First topic message reminder :

I started a thread about Greg Laidlaw recently which showed how far apart people's views were about him (surprisingly, the majority of positive comments came from non-Scots)
Anyway, that got me thinking. Which players (of undoubted ability) polarise views? I think we can all agree that Gavin Henson may be a total helmet but he can be a great player so we will exclude the likes of him. I am looking for names that cause debate about his worthiness to wear "the jersey".
Let's start he ball rolling with Dan Parks and Ryan Lamb (never understood the downer English fans had for him)

I think I saw after the wales game that Crofts tackle count was 9, while every other starting forwards was nearer 20. Even Vunipola outtackled him in 30 minutes. I kept looking out for him during the game but couldnt see him half the time because he was hanging about on the wing below the cameras line of sight.

At the highest level, you just cant afford to carry a player in your pack who does as little work as Croft. I think it gets hidden against teams that dont contest the breakdown as much, but against teams like wales, aus, sa, nz, youve lost before the games even begun.

rodders wrote:

Monkeyan wrote:Keith Earls for Ireland.

The guy is undoubtedly talented and, I think, would be a world class 7s player, but far too often he fails to give a crucial pass, or gets brushed off in defence.

He's pants thats why, same with Conor Murray and Chris Ashton.

Paul Marshall for Ulster...can't understand how some people can't see how good he is.

Conor Murray is twice the player Marshall is.......Actually he is close enough to twice....the ...pla....Oh never mind.

Earls polarises opinion ok one of those poles is you Rodders.

theslosty wrote:
Not sure Paddy Wallace has divided Irish opinion throughout his career!

What? You mean everyone thinks he's Shyte

yappysnap wrote:Varndell is one for sure.

The stats say he's England's best winger by a country mile and has been for the last 4 years. He's already smashed the all time AP try scoring record.

The Int coaches and Leicester fans say he's a lazy tackle dodger who's work shy.

He is both of those things

Hmm. I like to rant about ROG.

I will concede though that if I needed someone to kick a last minute pen or DG, he'd be my pick to do it. (or at least was).

Dave. wrote:Hmm. I like to rant about ROG.

I will concede though that if I needed someone to kick a last minute pen or DG, he'd be my pick to do it. (or at least was).

All of my anger at ROG stems from a few minutes of rugby in South Africa fro which he shall never ever be forgiven.

ever

Looseheaded wrote:HKC i don't think anybody has ever thought anything good about Stephen Donald. Even his parents probably disagree with him being selected by teams

Is Donald a rugby player???

Richie McCaw

No doubting his ability just wether he plays within the rules, seen a few people get riled by his style of play

LondonTiger wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:I thought Alex Goode had a very poor 6N. His instinct was always to kick rather than counter attack. His a tidy player with good all round skills but very little in the way of invention or attacking threat. So I suppose your right Pooly maybe he excels with flyers on his wings.

If I were being cruel (and Beshocked will tell you I am always generous and never mean to Sarries players) I would say that Goode had two tactics on returning the high kick:

1) Jog towards the opposition before putting up a garryowen
2) Jog towards the opposition, sidestep 4 times and stumble into the nearest attacker.


Which is strange as his counterattacking for Sarries is excellent. I guess he is helped there by Brits and Joubert often hanging back and providing him with an option.

Still Goode made more metres than Hogg,Brown and Halfpenny. Missed less tackles too than Hogg too. Hogg's tackle stats are awful - tackles made 9, tackles missed 7.

Metres made by Halfpenny was actually very poor but very good tackle stats.

Tom Croft's stats are interesting:

2 matches
0 tries
0 points
0 try assists
0 kicks from hand
2 passes
3 Carries
6 Metres Made
No clean break
1 offload
0 defenders beaten
17 tackles made
1 missed
0 penalties conceded
2 turnovers conceded
6 line out throws one
2 lineouts stolen

Yes he did Beshocked but that distance was usually made running back to the other team, but not through them so are very misleading. As I said for Sarries he is a very good counter-attacker but we did not see that in the 6Ns. Much of this is down to the England gameplan.

In what way are Crofts stats interesting? For a man who frankly should not have been selected those make pretty decent reading on 110 minutes of play (when England were under the cosh).

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

theslosty wrote:
Not sure Paddy Wallace has divided Irish opinion throughout his career!

What? You mean everyone thinks he's Shyte

..except Fergus McFadden and Gordon D'arcy of course, who are still bamboozled that Paddy can pass the ball of either hand.....

LondonTiger wrote:
1) Jog towards the opposition before putting up a garryowen
2) Jog towards the opposition, sidestep 4 times and stumble into the nearest attacker.


Which is strange as his counterattacking for Sarries is excellent. I guess he is helped there by Brits and Joubert often hanging back and providing him with an option.

Exactly how I see him. Whats with all the pointless sidesteps? Looks about as ridiculous as Rob Cooks kicking style.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:
1) Jog towards the opposition before putting up a garryowen
2) Jog towards the opposition, sidestep 4 times and stumble into the nearest attacker.


Which is strange as his counterattacking for Sarries is excellent. I guess he is helped there by Brits and Joubert often hanging back and providing him with an option.

Exactly how I see him. Whats with all the pointless sidesteps? Looks about as ridiculous as Rob Cooks kicking style.

Come on that's a little too far! It's not as bad as Rob Cooks kicking style.

Londontiger they didn't utilise Goode well enough IMO. Did they use him once at first receiver vs Wales for example?

Croft's stats are interesting because it seems he barely got his hands on the ball. Why is that? Too much time lurking on the wing perhaps? His lineout stats and tackling stats are good but doesn't give us the whole picture.

An honourable mention has to go to Sinbad, the Matt Le Tissier of the oval ball. He's either a misunderstood genius or the paradigmetic example of how some people cannot consistently translation club form to internationals.

I agree with the poster above who said that some players polarize opinion because of the people that they are and some because of their skills as a rugby player.

Will Carling was one of the best centres I grew up watching. However, the fact that Bumface is a reprehensible human being and media lady of loose morals whose ego dwarfs the size of a pole star folding in on itself means that I will never, ever list him as a favourite. And so the world turns.

beshocked wrote:
Londontiger they didn't utilise Goode well enough IMO. Did they use him once at first receiver vs Wales for example?

Croft's stats are interesting because it seems he barely got his hands on the ball. Why is that? Too much time lurking on the wing perhaps? His lineout stats and tackling stats are good but doesn't give us the whole picture.

As I said, the gameplan did not utilise Goode as much as it could in attack. The same could be said for Croft, who again I state should not have been selected.

Looking at the official match stats, Croft did not touch the ball at all in hi 30 minutes against Italy (no surprise as we were only defending). Equally unlike the Telegraphs stats he made 17 tackles across the two matches without missing any.

More importantly, I've heard that Croft smells distinctly of ranch dressing.

George Carlin wrote:More importantly, I've heard that Croft smells distinctly of ranch dressing.

Bad info.

Johnson's Baby Talc.

George Carlin wrote:More importantly, I've heard that Croft smells distinctly of ranch dressing.

jeffwinger wrote:Toby Flood.

Some think he's a good international player, others think he's an average club player.

I'd go a bit further and say I barely think he'd stand out in a Saturday afternoon local league match, and how he stumbled (or perhaps crabbed) to 50 caps I'll never know.

He IS a good international player. I've never heard him described as an average club player either.

Mind you, if you have to ask how he's reached 50 caps, I almost feel sorry for you.

Not a current player but Clive Woodward certainly divides opinion.

Either he is the only man in England capable of winning anything of note and as such should be brought into a senior England role immediately (fans of his have been slightly less vocal under SL admittedly.

Alternatively he got lucky in that he had some of the best players england have ever produced fit and in the same team at the same time. The players won the WC, as shown by the slide in form as the pick of the bunch retired and his 'leadership' of the 2005 debacle.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Not a current player but Clive Woodward certainly divides opinion.

Either he is the only man in England capable of winning anything of note and as such should be brought into a senior England role immediately (fans of his have been slightly less vocal under SL admittedly.

Alternatively he got lucky in that he had some of the best players england have ever produced fit and in the same team at the same time. The players won the WC, as shown by the slide in form as the pick of the bunch retired and his 'leadership' of the 2005 debacle.

Add Eddie O'Sullivan to that list. Very good coach, yet no one want to take a punt on him.