Boxers Greatest Heroes and Villains: VILLAINS

Something a little different from your regular P4P lists or hardest hitters!

I’m compiling a little list of our Top Ten “Heroes” and Top Ten “Villains” for the V2 Journal (because everybody loves Top 10 lists!) – they have to be for Villainous activity in the sport of Boxing only (So Valero and Monzon are exempt due to their crimes outside of the sport). But, they are not confined to being a boxer.

For example, Don King: Shady character NO boxers have a nice word to say about him… he would rank highly in the boxing Villain category (but he put a number of huge cards on for the fans so he may not be Number 1).

So far I have the following names for Villains (in no order).

Ricardo Mayorga – Trash talking, chain smoking and overall bully.
Antonio Margarito – Took the heart from Cotto, was found with wraps made of plaster – mocked those who questioned him.
Don King – You only have to see the 2 minute segment in the Klitchsko movie to see the guy is a living Bond Villain!
Mike Tyson – Ear biting, “I’ll eat your children” – Yes I consider him a good guy now, but he was the “baddest man on the planet”
Panama Lewis/Luis Resto – No hand wraps, first real scandal of this kind in boxing.
James Butler – Not so sure about adding him due to the murder of Sam Kellerman, but he was a nasty piece of work in boxing.
José Sulaiman/WBC – Gifts belts to Mexicans, authorizes some odd rankings (including dead boxers?!).
BALCO – Massive scandal that shaded a number of big names careers in the early 2000’s
Floyd Mayweather – He loves playing the villain, we love watching him as a villain, nice as pie after the fight but in the build up, the guy can be a piece of work!

Of course, with the Villain category we have to be very careful with the rationale behind their “Villain status” so I’ve only included well documented “villains” with no possible comeback with litigation, but feel free to add or remove some villains!

Fritzie Zivic would not be a bad shout SP, often described as the dirtiest fighter ever to step into a ring, a tag he seemed frequently to live up to and a badge he wore with some degree of pride. Was also not averse to a bit of skullduggery when it suited him as well. After losing two times to Charley Burley he bought out Burley’s managerial contract to ensure he got a shot at the welterweight title before Charley and that once he had the title he would not have to defend it and probably lose it to him.

Absolutely cracking shout Rowley!

I never heard of the guy until you mentioned him (poor showing I know!). I just read he was partial to a bit of a thumbing in the eye and the odd 20 or so low blows too. But the stuff with the contract? That's cold and dastardly!

Real Villain.

Not on the same level as some of the above but Bernard Hopkins is a bit of a villain in the ring and plays up to that reputation. Wearing his executioner mask, trash talk, burning flags and using every trick in the book to win..

I thought about Hopkins, he's been a bad guy for a while... Mocking his opponents, burning the Puerto Rican flag, borderline racism and anyone who does press ups in the ring in between rounds is bad ass.

I can't help but feel there's a hero in there somewhere though, 48 years old, breaking records, showed absolute dedication to the sport and was made a partner in Golden Boy due to his commitment and attitude.

Maybe an honourable mention for him as the "Anti-Hero" haha.

I have a lot of time for the guy but John L Sullivan was a bit of a wrong un, was on the whole a boorish loudmouth outside the ring and a confirmed and pretty unashamed racist to go with it. Was also not averse to pulling a few stunts if rumours are to believed. There is a story about when he was emerging as a young fighter in Boston. His only local rival was the excellent black fighter George Godfrey. As both were the accepted best in the city the calls to see them fight were inevitable and eventually the fight was arranged. Godfrey turned up stripped and ready for action, however when Sullivan did likewise the police intervened and called the fight off for reasons not clearly specified.

Godfrey went to his grave believing Sullivan had set this up to avoid the fight, all speculation of course but should be said Sullivan showed no great inclination to rearrange the fight and certainly was never prepared to face Godfrey once he won the championship, or Peter Jackson when he had bested Godfrey. However in Sully’s defence he was far from the only champion who drew the colour line in those days so perhaps should not be judged too harshly on this.

james butler has to get the number one spot for this alone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Jz0HNgoII

I added James Butler but think he might be a little too evil due to the murder of Sam Kellerman. Certainly don't want to upset anyone by adding him in a list.

But he is definitely a villain.

Boxing promoters

azania wrote:Boxing promoters

A little more specific? I thought about Arum, but in all fairness some of the fights he puts on are good - granted his stubborn approach to dealing with Golden Boy has stopped us from seeing a couple of fights, but since the Manny Pacquaio drop from P4P we've had some corkers from Top Rank.

Annoyance? Yes. Villain? Not quite.

Who did you have in mind Azania?

Sorry SP, I'd have to disagree there, which isn't something I usually do with you. Arum is the single biggest cancer to boxing today - he refuses to make fights with his biggest stars across promotions, which severely hinders us fans in the long run. Take Mares and Donaire for instance. Take Pacquiao and Mayweather.

He's greedy (Pacquiao vs Marquez 5 anyone? Really?) will bleed his fighters dry and won't offer them opportunities unless there is some sort of financial advantage for him in the long term.

He's also a thoroughly unpleasant character. "I'm going to make a lot of money on the rematch" (Post Pacquiao loss to Bradley)

Has no love for the sport at all. Only dollar signs in his eyes. Bad for boxing.

School Project wrote:

azania wrote:Boxing promoters

A little more specific? I thought about Arum, but in all fairness some of the fights he puts on are good - granted his stubborn approach to dealing with Golden Boy has stopped us from seeing a couple of fights, but since the Manny Pacquaio drop from P4P we've had some corkers from Top Rank.

Annoyance? Yes. Villain? Not quite.

Who did you have in mind Azania?

Arum
Warren
Hearn
Saurland
etc etc etc

Rowley wrote:Fritzie Zivic would not be a bad shout SP, often described as the dirtiest fighter ever to step into a ring, a tag he seemed frequently to live up to and a badge he wore with some degree of pride. Was also not averse to a bit of skullduggery when it suited him as well. After losing two times to Charley Burley he bought out Burley’s managerial contract to ensure he got a shot at the welterweight title before Charley and that once he had the title he would not have to defend it and probably lose it to him.

Curse your existence. Reading through I thought dropping Zivic in would be perfect but I've been beaten to it handily...


Liston. If out of the ring activities were allowed to carry weight in this list he'd be in at a canter, given his mob ties and leaving policemen upisde down in bins. In the ring the man incarnated menace in it's purest form. Just existing, staring. His only supporter in the world seemed to be Floyd Patterson who could respect what a beast of a boxer he was. Also the alleged substance on his gloves to blind Clay, plus every God forsaken punch he ever threw.

Got to get up pretty early to beat me to shoehorning a reference to Burley into a thread JBW

Mickey Vann - for his belief that he was more important that any of the fighters he was supposedly keeping control of. Really do wish Steven Smith's dad, Darkie, had planted one on him when he fought Ricky Hatton

DAVE667 wrote:Mickey Vann - for his belief that he was more important that any of the fighters he was supposedly keeping control of. Really do wish Steven Smith's dad, Darkie, had planted one on him when he fought Ricky Hatton

Have never understood why Vann is still fairly well thought of and revered as an official on these shores, Dave. To me, he always seemed to want to be centre of attention when refereeing, and some of his stoppages were terrible.

Of course, he did help to royally screw 'my boy' Pernell over when he whooped Chavez and got only a draw for it thanks to yet more awful scoring, so I may be biased.

Great article but I take exception with: - Ricardo Mayorga – Trash talking, chain smoking and overall bully. Smoking still does not make you public enemy number 1, even in these days of anti-smoking hysteria.

Any thoughts on Minter for his racism towards Hagler or was this more his entourage?

School Project wrote:James Butler – Not so sure about adding him due to the murder of Sam Kellerman, but he was a nasty piece of

He should be on this list anyway because he cracked Richard Grant after there fight and broke his jaw. Even sucking him in by implying he was going to hug him. Scum bag

88Chris05 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Mickey Vann - for his belief that he was more important that any of the fighters he was supposedly keeping control of. Really do wish Steven Smith's dad, Darkie, had planted one on him when he fought Ricky Hatton

Have never understood why Vann is still fairly well thought of and revered as an official on these shores, Dave. To me, he always seemed to want to be centre of attention when refereeing, and some of his stoppages were terrible.

Refs are like football chairmen, the good ones should be seen and not heard, the cult of the celebrity referees is hugely annoying across all sports. Vann is one of the worst examples of that with his silly dancing round the ring. He even has an autobiography out, who the bleeding hell wants to read a referees autobiography, even I would not read that and I'll read any old drivel when it comes to boxing books.

I don't think that Minter is much of a boxing villain, really. Well, he probably is to Tony Sibson come to think of it; Sibbo blasting Minter out was maybe the best moment of Tony's career but, because of some bizarre advertising which Minter insisted of having on his shorts, the BBC boycotted the fight and as a result Sibson's brilliant victory went largely unnoticed, or at least wasn't as noticed as it should have been!

That aside, he made one ill-judged comment which isn't enough to make him worthy of consideration here. What tends to be forgotten in the whole Minter-Hagler saga is that Marvin wasn't shy in showing his disdain for Minter either and is likewise reported to have made some comments pretty close to the bone when it comes to race, but Minter's comment was always likely to garner more attention, particularly as Marvin's comments came in retaliation.

Minter was no angel and some of his followers were disgraceful, but I think there are more suitable candidates here.

Tend to agree Chris. Thought I'd throw it out for debate and see what answer came back, so thanks for that.

Liston is a great shout, certainly a man of ill repute.

His back story is shady at best, links to the mob and being boo'd/jeered upon winning fights... then of course, the rivalry with Ali - the blinding in the first fight/the dive in the second (later admitting he was scared of Ali and his Muslim following!).

He was a heavy drinker (allegedly) and had a mysterious death.

If we’re talking boxing villains the likes of Blinkey Palermo, Frankie Carbo and their cronies have to have a mention, virtually run boxing in the 40s and 50’s, fixed fights left right and centre, denied fighters title fights unless they signed contracts with them and were more than willing to force fighters who did so into throwing the odd fight. Liston is by no means an angel but the puppet masters who exploited are far more worthy of our disdain and their place on this list.

Owney Madden too, Jeff. What a temper that man had on him! Yorkshire's finest.

Too true Chris, when even the mobs finest consider you a loose cannon you know you have some anger issues!

Palmero, that rings a bell... didn't he have dealings with Jake Lamotta at one point? (Lamotta threw a fight for him I believe).

This Top Ten is going to be hard to wittle down, but judging by some standards of said Villains, a few of the "initial list" can be scratched off!

Very true SP, LaMotta was basically told if he ever wanted a title bout he had to throw a fight against Billy Fox, a fighter who stood about as much chance of beting Jake on the level as I do of making the next Olympic 100 metres team.

Palermo had his fingers in a lot of pies, SP, but Johnny Saxton was probably his greatest 'achievement.' Saxton was ruthlessly controlled by Palermo and his two verdicts over Kid Gavilan and Carmen Basilio to win the Welterweight title a couple of times over were generally seen as a disgrace at the time.

La Motta took a dive against 'Blackjack' Billy Fox, a journeyman Light-Heavyweight who was controlled by the Mob, in order to get his title shot against Marcel Cerdan (leapfrogging a certain Ray Robinson in the process!) and, even then, he had to wait two years to get the fight and was forced to pay the Mob $60,000, too.

Zab judah - low blowed mayweather in their fight and also clamed khan low blowed him in their fight when it was clearly a body shot.

Ketchel was a bit of a Bar Steward wasnt he? Any care to refresh my memory? I remember that he set up an exhibition match with jack johnson and then sucker punched him then Jack punched out his teeth. But cant remember what else he got up to

Makaveli wrote:Zab judah - low blowed mayweather in their fight and also clamed khan low blowed him in their fight when it was clearly a body shot.

Lest we forget him throwing a stool (and by "stool" I mean "chair" you dirty people) at Jay Nady

Makaveli wrote:Zab judah - low blowed mayweather in their fight and also clamed khan low blowed him in their fight when it was clearly a body shot.

I think the real low point for Zab was the Tszyu fight and the aftermath of it. Not only did he manage to get himself knocked out by a fighter he had the ability and style to box rings around, but his behaviour afterwards (pushing his glove in to referee Jay Nady's throat, chucking his corner stool at him in the middle of a packed ring and basically throwing a moody at everyone around him) was disgraceful.

Judah was considered one of boxing's brightest young stars at that stage - probably even level-pegging with Floyd - but that fight was the first showcase for that mental frailty which has dogged him for the whole twelve years since, and his career never really got back on track afterwards, despite picking up additional world titles.

to be fair to zab i don't think it was aware how badly he was hurt as when he saw it on screen again afterwards he said he couldn't remember being knocked over like that, still no excuse but not the same level as some on here

Ian John Lewis with his wonderful ability to miss a knockdown and score fights which hardly anyone can understand.

Great ref also. Just ask Enzo Mac.

Ketchel was indeed something of a wrong un Shah, the Johnson fight is a bit shrouded in mystery. The common telling of the tale and the one which is perhaps most widely accepted is that as the fight was being filmed those involved knew the sales of the film would be aided by the fight going a few rounds so an arrangement was put in place whereby they would gently spar for a few rounds before which they would either start fighting on the level or Johnson would knock him out, as this would have been the inevitable result had the fight been on the level. However Ketchel decided to go off script and try to nick the heavyweight title by cold cocking Johnson. When he tried this and knocked Johnson down Jack got his mad up a bit, promptly rose and knocked Stanley into next week.

As I say all speculation but based on what we know of Ketchel is not impossible. There is a story that when Jeffries was due to fight Johnson Stanley visited Jeff in camp and was so concerned by his condition and was so convinced Johnson would beat Jeffries with ease he decided when he was called into the ring before the fight as was the tradition for champions and former fighters he was going to go to the corners to shake hands with both fighters and knock Jeffries out, thus meaning he was unable to fight and was saved the ignominy of being beaten with ease. As with all these old stories how true this is but it is known that Ketchel was not permitted into the ring before the fight so someone obviously thought it was possible.

Odd fellow Stanley, can’t dislike him too much though because there is enough evidence to suggest he was going to give Langford a title shot had he not been killed so fair play to him for that.

i knew there was something missing but my mind went completly blank as i was typing, thanks chris as that was exactly what it was. eddy, i agree bad character but nothing compared to what some of the other posters have mentioned.

Ian John Lewis is a disgrace - good call, Az.

He's not a villain though Chris. He's hapless and stupid. Too stupid to realise he is out of his depth.

True, Shah. But seeing that name is like a red rag to a bull for me!

Ian John Lewis is useless at every aspect of his job, any other line of work and he'd be fired.

88Chris05 wrote:True, Shah. But seeing that name is like a red rag to a bull for me!

Ah, even creatures of the bovine family have a more discerning taste than tabloid readers.

Roberto Duran: I broke both my hands in that fight - I didn't worry - I knocked him out with my elbow