Have Ospreys underperformed in Europe? If so why?

Let me start by saying that the Ospreys have been a fantastic team pretty much since regionalisation started. At Leicester we have seen rather a lot of them having been drawn together several times in the HEC and met twice in the Anglo/Welsh final. Including the AW cup they have won 5 domestic titles, virtually represented Wales en-masse in the 2008 grand slam. They have a magnificent pack, cracking half backs and under-rated but very good backs.

They are and have been a very good team.

In 10 seasons they have never topped a group and only finished second on 4 occasions making 3 1/4 finals. I would have expected such a strong team to achieve a lot more than this, thus why I feel they have underpeformed.

Do you agree?

I guess much of the reason is that they get hard groups, meaning it is hard to earn the ranking points to get easier groups, even so Ospreys have the quality to have done much better. They demonstrated that this year by beating Toulouse - but a home draw to Leicester and defeat in Italy consigned them to third spot. Those matches should have been won and would have given them an Amlin 1/4 final at the least - and a rankings point boost. As it is they are now 17th in the provisional ERC Rankings with 3 teams who could go past them.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/ranking.php


This is not intended to be an attack on Welsh rugby or regionalisation (anyone looking for an excuse to WUM our neighbours please go elsewhere) but an attempt to try and understand why such a strong team, with a strong record of success at domestic level and players who have thrived on the International scene has made such little impact on the European stage.

I can't see how a team made up of largely local boys of Swansea and the surrounding can be named as underperformed because of the players reputations.

I'd say they are immensely gifted at producing individual talent, but do not have the financial clout to hold onto these players, then the low key signing they manage to develop into quality players also leave for higher wages.

None of the 4 regions are given a platform by the WRU to succeed, none can boast financial power as even the most middling AP or T14 teams, and at one point the Ospreys had a hugely talented squad, and may have underperformed for 2/3 seasons, but that was only a small amount of time and they have been reduced to local die hards in the likes of Jones, Jones, Jones, Jones, Evans, and Hibbard (coincidentally theyre tight 5) and kids.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can't see how a team made up of largely local boys of Swansea and the surrounding can be named as underperformed because of the players reputations.

.

Presumably because being full of local boys from Swansea is only a recent thing in the last few seasons. When they had a team sheet that included names like Jerry Collins, Justin Marshall, Marty Hollah and Tommy Bowe (not quite local boys from Swansea) they were definitely under performers in the HC.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can't see how a team made up of largely local boys of Swansea and the surrounding can be named as underperformed because of the players reputations.

.

Presumably because being full of local boys from Swansea is only a recent thing in the last few seasons. When they had a team sheet that included names like Jerry Collins, Justin Marshall, Marty Hollah and Tommy Bowe (not quite local boys from Swansea) they were definitely under performers in the HC.

Well that was back in the few seasons I highlighted that they arguably underperformed, but in reality Collins, Hollah, Marshall were all on the cress or on the wrong side of the hill, despite the ages. I was considering world class players like Hook, Byrne and Williams.

Like I said they can be considered as underperformers for the few seasons, but since then they have become an under funded agency, just like the other 3 regions, theyre working off a cap lower than AP and T14 rivals, are losing some of their top talent year on year, and living off player loyalty, and the youth set up.

When you compare wage bills of the last 10 years I bet they aren't in the top 8 or so as an average, the game is what you can afford these days, teams such as Leinster, Toulon, Racing, Leicester etc can afford to keep their best and sign the best, everyone else has to work within much tighter constraints.

With the financial constraints on Ospreys, aye, perhaps they have over performed in domestic tournaments.

I just feel that with the quality of the players they have, they would have done more. For me they have better players than we do for example.

LondonTiger wrote:With the financial constraints on Ospreys, aye, perhaps they have over performed in domestic tournaments.

I just feel that with the quality of the players they have, they would have done more. For me they have better players than we do for example.

On paper you think the Ospreys have better players than Leicester?

Maybe we do, but then Leicester don't have the restraint of a limit on overseas players, so you can have home grown Dan Cole starting, then sub him off for Martin Castrogiovani and not lose a thing. If Adam Jones gets injured and we are re-hiring Cai Griffiths who we spent most of his ospreys career trying to convince him to take his farming career more seriously, maybe you can understand the point.

What the Ospreys do have is a talented, predominantly young and locally sourced squad. Our first choice front five is a match for anyone, our first choice backline is not too bad, and those lads Tipuric and Jones are doing a decent enough job in the back row that they get a mention in the press now and again. Take any of those first team lads away though and they are being replaced by academy players.

The concept that the WRU and Regions are agreeing upon is for the Regions to become self sufficient, like the clubs in England and France, not dependent on the National body for hand outs, though unlike the clubs in England and France, not with a wealthy individual backer to keep the wages rolling.

It is an ambitious but worthy way for the regions to run. But it will take a good ten years before the regions are as competitive in Europe as Wales are internationally.

Ireland will likely have to start implementing changes to their provinces soon, the big money clubs are after their players, us small economies can't and won't compete financially.

LondonTiger wrote:With the financial constraints on Ospreys, aye, perhaps they have over performed in domestic tournaments.

I just feel that with the quality of the players they have, they would have done more. For me they have better players than we do for example.

They have probably produced and developed the most international quality players of any euro side over the last 10 years, but without the facility to keep those players.

I would argue the O's have one of the best tight 5's around, but they are loyal players who have all had huge offers to move abroad. Does that make the Ospreys a better team or a poorly funded team doing extremely well to hold onto key units of players?

Take their backline for example, at 1 point the O's could boast a backline of... Phillips, Hook, Byrne, Parker, Williams, Biggar, Henson, Bowe!!! These players couldn't be kept, and currently they are living with a backline they have had to develop from scratch, Fortualii was developed obver the 2 seasons he was with them, and as soon as he showed form decided to take a contract elsewhere, Biggar, Webb, Walker, Spratt, Beck etc are all products, infact the only big name signing the O's can boast over recent years is Richard Fussel Shows how good a platform they are allowed by their governing body eh?

It is an ambitious but worthy way for the regions to run. But it will take a good ten years before the regions are as competitive in Europe as Wales are internationally.

Maes I don't mean to offend you mate but you seem to love reiterating what the WRU tell you to think!! Initially we were to wait 10 years for HC succes of the new regions, now we havn't had that we need a restructure and to wait another 10 years for HC succes... Don't you know when your being told a line???

Fotuali'i made his name playing for the Canterbury Crusaders surely.....?

Artful_Dodger wrote:Fotuali'i made his name playing for the Canterbury Crusaders surely.....?

Not much of a name though by the suggestions of the contract he signed... Picked up as international back up to Rhys Webb initially, worked hard and developed over 2 seasons into what he is today.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Fotuali'i made his name playing for the Canterbury Crusaders surely.....?

Not much of a name though by the suggestions of the contract he signed... Picked up as international back up to Rhys Webb initially, worked hard and developed over 2 seasons into what he is today.

Really??? I recall Fotuali'i being the first choice 9 and all the Ospreys fans on here saying he was rubbish and keeping a young Welsh talent out of the team. It was only later that Ospreys fans started to realize how good he was.

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is an ambitious but worthy way for the regions to run. But it will take a good ten years before the regions are as competitive in Europe as Wales are internationally.

Maes I don't mean to offend you mate but you seem to love reiterating what the WRU tell you to think!! Initially we were to wait 10 years for HC succes of the new regions, now we havn't had that we need a restructure and to wait another 10 years for HC succes... Don't you know when your being told a line???

We are not being told a line, and I don't hold the WRU to blame for the position of the regions. When set up they were privately backed. They were seen as franchises sold off by the WRU, they are certainly not franchises anymore.

This differentiation in the structure of Welsh Regional rugby is why we should be patient with the regions ambitions and results.

We are not seeing results and haven't because the franchise concept failed. Not because the WRU failed.

You are appropriating a scapegoat that doesn't exist.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Fotuali'i made his name playing for the Canterbury Crusaders surely.....?

Not much of a name though by the suggestions of the contract he signed... Picked up as international back up to Rhys Webb initially, worked hard and developed over 2 seasons into what he is today.

Really??? I recall Fotuali'i being the first choice 9 and all the Ospreys fans on here saying he was rubbish and keeping a young Welsh talent out of the team. It was only later that Ospreys fans started to realize how good he was.

We knew he was good player before he arrived, he had a cracking RWC for Samoa. He was absolutely shoite in his first season at the Ospreys and he was keeping a better form player, Rhys Webb out of the team. When Khan turned his game around and stopped kicking good ball away we started to like him. When he found the form he is in now we really like him.

Sounds more like it maesteg it was the idea that Fotuali'i was brought in with the intention as being back up to Webb that I was disagreeing with after his was probably the best 9 at that WC and had been playing for Crusaders in super rugby.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is an ambitious but worthy way for the regions to run. But it will take a good ten years before the regions are as competitive in Europe as Wales are internationally.

Maes I don't mean to offend you mate but you seem to love reiterating what the WRU tell you to think!! Initially we were to wait 10 years for HC succes of the new regions, now we havn't had that we need a restructure and to wait another 10 years for HC succes... Don't you know when your being told a line???

We are not being told a line, and I don't hold the WRU to blame for the position of the regions. When set up they were privately backed. They were seen as franchises sold off by the WRU, they are certainly not franchises anymore.

This differentiation in the structure of Welsh Regional rugby is why we should be patient with the regions ambitions and results.

We are not seeing results and haven't because the franchise concept failed. Not because the WRU failed.

You are appropriating a scapegoat that doesn't exist.

Lets not have this argument on this thread, we would probably go on about it all day and never resolve anything, just agree to disagree on this occasion

RE Kahn, your right though, he was signed on a poor contract apparently (maybe you know more than I do and can elaborate) and he was strong armed into the team because the coaching set up liked him. He was very poor originally but got to grips with what was expected in time and IMHO the O's have turned his caeer around.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Sounds more like it maesteg it was the idea that Fotuali'i was brought in with the intention as being back up to Webb that I was disagreeing with after his was probably the best 9 at that WC and had been playing for Crusaders in super rugby.

Wasn't he playing back up and wing cover at Crusaders?

I don't know but as I said above, the idea that he was brought in to be back up to Rhys Webb is what I was disagreeing with.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is an ambitious but worthy way for the regions to run. But it will take a good ten years before the regions are as competitive in Europe as Wales are internationally.

Maes I don't mean to offend you mate but you seem to love reiterating what the WRU tell you to think!! Initially we were to wait 10 years for HC succes of the new regions, now we havn't had that we need a restructure and to wait another 10 years for HC succes... Don't you know when your being told a line???

We are not being told a line, and I don't hold the WRU to blame for the position of the regions. When set up they were privately backed. They were seen as franchises sold off by the WRU, they are certainly not franchises anymore.

This differentiation in the structure of Welsh Regional rugby is why we should be patient with the regions ambitions and results.

We are not seeing results and haven't because the franchise concept failed. Not because the WRU failed.

You are appropriating a scapegoat that doesn't exist.

Lets not have this argument on this thread, we would probably go on about it all day and never resolve anything, just agree to disagree on this occasion

RE Kahn, your right though, he was signed on a poor contract apparently (maybe you know more than I do and can elaborate) and he was strong armed into the team because the coaching set up liked him. He was very poor originally but got to grips with what was expected in time and IMHO the O's have turned his caeer around.

Ill agree to disagree with you on this. No disrespect intended mate. A difference of opinion is a good thing.

Artful_Dodger wrote:I don't know but as I said above, the idea that he was brought in to be back up to Rhys Webb is what I was disagreeing with.

But coming from super rugby as back up 9/wing to the O's on a pretty affordable contract doesn't suggest that they were investing in a top class player. He took a lot of stick and had to fight Webb for the shirt, and is now one of europes most wanted.

He certainly wasn't signed with the faith of a star and in fact wasn't he signed as part of a double act.

Maes you'll know the details, who signed with Kahn initially?

LondonTiger wrote:Let me start by saying that the Ospreys have been a fantastic team pretty much since regionalisation started. At Leicester we have seen rather a lot of them having been drawn together several times in the HEC and met twice in the Anglo/Welsh final. Including the AW cup they have won 5 domestic titles, virtually represented Wales en-masse in the 2008 grand slam. They have a magnificent pack, cracking half backs and under-rated but very good backs.

They are and have been a very good team.

In 10 seasons they have never topped a group and only finished second on 4 occasions making 3 1/4 finals. I would have expected such a strong team to achieve a lot more than this, thus why I feel they have underpeformed.

Do you agree?

I guess much of the reason is that they get hard groups, meaning it is hard to earn the ranking points to get easier groups, even so Ospreys have the quality to have done much better. They demonstrated that this year by beating Toulouse - but a home draw to Leicester and defeat in Italy consigned them to third spot. Those matches should have been won and would have given them an Amlin 1/4 final at the least - and a rankings point boost. As it is they are now 17th in the provisional ERC Rankings with 3 teams who could go past them.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/ranking.php


This is not intended to be an attack on Welsh rugby or regionalisation (anyone looking for an excuse to WUM our neighbours please go elsewhere) but an attempt to try and understand why such a strong team, with a strong record of success at domestic level and players who have thrived on the International scene has made such little impact on the European stage.

The Welsh system produces players good enough to win against second rate opposition, at least when topped up with a large amount of private finance as the Ospreys have done. It doesn't produce players good enough to win against real top tier opposition (i.e. the business end of the Heineken Cup, international tests vs the big three SH teams). The O's have done well at their level but the HC is beyond them. Left to the devices of the WRU they'd be even further off.

I don't think we have no.

Firstly we nearly always win our 3 homes games, but we often lose our 3 away ones and if we do we give away the 4 try bonus point which always costs us dearly.

Secondly that bloody 4th Wales November international only a week before the Heinaken Cup games seems to disrupt us. This season the Ospreys challenge was pretty much destroyed by a silly amount of injuries sustained by our international players while on Wales duty.

Alun Wyn Jones got a bad injury on Wales duty.

Ian Evans got a knee injury on Wales duty against Samoa, which ruled him out for a while.
Richard Hibbard for a shoulder injury on Wales duty in November.
Dan Biggar also got a shoulder injury on Wales duty in November.

Adam Jones got a bad long term knee injury in November against Leicester early on which really hurt us and he was out for a long time. Tight head Jo Rees got a season ending injury in November in the LV Cup game against Gloucester.
Arron Jarvis had a season ending knee injury against New Zealand.
Basically we lost our 3 first choice tight heads during November, 2 of them for the entire season, and the season only started in September!

Bascially it's fair to say the Ospreys European challenge was pretty much destroyed by injuries to players on Wales duty. We have a lot of quality players and a very good first XV, but when were relying on young kids from the academy to win European games then we are going to struggle.

Shifty wrote:I don't think we have no.

Bascially it's fair to say the Ospreys European challenge was pretty much destroyed by injuries to players on Wales duty. We have a lot of quality players and a very good first XV, but when were relying on young kids from the academy to win European games then we are going to struggle.

We don't have much option but to work hard on improving those academy kids though do we.

To be fair I thought James King and Lloyd Peers did really well filling in For AWJ and Ianto, Scott Baldwin has gone from third to second choice hooker, Jarvis and Rees were both playing well and the younger front row lads Marc Thomas, Matthew Dwyer and Danny Suter did really well in the LV= and when called upon for RP12 duty. The Academy is doing a very good job producing who we need.

But Europe is not a level playing field, the top French and English teams can buy who they want to win. If we want to compete we have to do even more than we are.

Though you guys may have noticed that Leinster and Munster are now probably on a similar level to the Ospreys, great first team, second and third choices are all young academy players. Ulster may well be forced into the same situation when big clubs in Japan, France and England start coming after their star players.

maestegmafia wrote:We don't have much option but to work hard on improving those academy kids though do we.

To be fair I thought James King and Lloyd Peers did really well filling in For AWJ and Ianto, Scott Baldwin has gone from third to second choice hooker, Jarvis and Rees were both playing well and the younger front row lads Marc Thomas, Matthew Dwyer and Danny Suter did really well in the LV= and when called upon for RP12 duty. The Academy is doing a very good job producing who we need.

But Europe is not a level playing field, the top French and English teams can buy who they want to win. If we want to compete we have to do even more than we are.

Though you guys may have noticed that Leinster and Munster are now probably on a similar level to the Ospreys, great first team, second and third choices are all young academy players. Ulster may well be forced into the same situation when big clubs in Japan, France and England start coming after their star players.

Until we start losing by big scores at home in Europe I won't be worried, the Ospreys are not a bad team in all honesty, while the core of the team are probably too old to be poached. Thankfully we seem to have 4 or so Ryan giggs type players, who will probably spend their careers with us.

Shifty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:We don't have much option but to work hard on improving those academy kids though do we.

To be fair I thought James King and Lloyd Peers did really well filling in For AWJ and Ianto, Scott Baldwin has gone from third to second choice hooker, Jarvis and Rees were both playing well and the younger front row lads Marc Thomas, Matthew Dwyer and Danny Suter did really well in the LV= and when called upon for RP12 duty. The Academy is doing a very good job producing who we need.

But Europe is not a level playing field, the top French and English teams can buy who they want to win. If we want to compete we have to do even more than we are.

Though you guys may have noticed that Leinster and Munster are now probably on a similar level to the Ospreys, great first team, second and third choices are all young academy players. Ulster may well be forced into the same situation when big clubs in Japan, France and England start coming after their star players.

Until we start losing by big scores at home in Europe I won't be worried, the Ospreys are not a bad team in all honesty, while the core of the team are probably too old to be poached. Thankfully we seem to have 4 or so Ryan giggs type players, who will probably spend their careers with us.

We have been lucky to keep the services of Ryan, Adam, Hibbard, AWJ and now Biggar too.

maestegmafia wrote:We have been lucky to keep the services of Ryan, Adam, Hibbard, AWJ and now Biggar too.

Ahem!
Ianto?

Shifty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:We have been lucky to keep the services of Ryan, Adam, Hibbard, AWJ and now Biggar too.

Ahem!
Ianto?

Yes but considering how long he was injured for, I would say he is still repaying a few debts...

maestegmafia wrote:Yes but considering how long he was injured for, I would say he is still repaying a few debts...

Ok... YOU go tell him that!

When we were billed (mainly by Blues management and fans) as cheque book waving galacticos etc we had coaches in Lynne Jones and Sean Holley who were good at achieving success at a local level but could not expand the game plan to a level where we could really compete in Europe. Now we have a coach in Tandy who seems to be able to get an expansive game, we do not have the superstar players. I think it will happen for us in Europe but we need to develop our academy players and at the same time hold on to our international stars - as well as inducing quality NWQs to join us at a price we can well afford.

Scarpia wrote:When we were billed (mainly by Blues management and fans) as cheque book waving galacticos etc we had coaches in Lynne Jones and Sean Holley who were good at achieving success at a local level but could not expand the game plan to a level where we could really compete in Europe. Now we have a coach in Tandy who seems to be able to get an expansive game, we do not have the superstar players. I think it will happen for us in Europe but we need to develop our academy players and at the same time hold on to our international stars - as well as inducing quality NWQs to join us at a price we can well afford.

THe regions tried to buy success for the first decade. That was the main failing, but until they had the academies running at the rate they are now there was little option.

Welsh rugby was in import culture in the late nineties and early millennium. Now we are producing players at a good rate, players we can do something with in the future. We need to make sure that the Premiership underpins the region too.

This debate between the WRU and the Regions has come to a head and will have to get resolved now. It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form



To be fair with this whole shenanigans going on with RRW the WRU and the rest. The ospreys would be clever to break away from the other regions on this.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form



To be fair with this whole shenanigans going on with RRW the WRU and the rest. The ospreys would be clever to break away from the other regions on this.

Fair do's, this must be one of the daftest things I've ever seen written on a rugby message board, ever. And given the recent nonsense spotted by the WRUin, that's some achievement. You do realise, by accomplishing points 1-6 above, the drain on the private investors at the O's is far and above that on the other regions and they therefore are the ones having the urine taken out of them by Rog most spectacularly? Why do you think Andrew Hore's been so busy in the press recently? Honestly if regional fans can genuinely write stuff like this pro rugby is proper ffwced already, we may as well give up now and all buy sparkly cowboy hats in time for next Feb, it'll be the only top flight rugby left in the principality at this rate

Another poster who just berates those who he disagree's with...

Mate, put your case, back up your points.

Another poster who thinks because he's wrong someone is having a pop. The issue as clearly presented above - and I can't believe isn't evident to anyone claiming to be an O's fan - is that you are being ripped off by the WRU in delivering points 1-6. Not my words, the words of senior figures at your region.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21957344

Ospreys slate WRU over club links.

Andrew Hore Says

"We should be trying to get bums on seats because I am sick and tired of hearing that we should go running to the WRU for finance."

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form

aha. thanks. You sounded negative (or I take curtail to be a negative word) about Ospreys which left me confused.

Ospreys are doing a lot right, but the other regions are doing some good things as well. Scarlets academy is hugely impressive - especially when you consider relative population catchment areas.

TiggerGirl wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form

aha. thanks. You sounded negative (or I take curtail to be a negative word) about Ospreys which left me confused.

Ospreys are doing a lot right, but the other regions are doing some good things as well. Scarlets academy is hugely impressive - especially when you consider relative population catchment areas.

Yes all the academies are doing very well. It's the foundation of our game.

maestegmafia wrote:Andrew Hore Says

"We should be trying to get bums on seats because I am sick and tired of hearing that we should go running to the WRU for finance."

Andrew Hore (amongst other senior figures at the other three regions) also says "now if only we can get those idiots at Westgate St to let us do this..."

maestegmafia wrote:

TiggerGirl wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form

aha. thanks. You sounded negative (or I take curtail to be a negative word) about Ospreys which left me confused.

Ospreys are doing a lot right, but the other regions are doing some good things as well. Scarlets academy is hugely impressive - especially when you consider relative population catchment areas.

Yes all the academies are doing very well. It's the foundation of our game.

Yet paid for almost entirely by private investors rather than the Union, just to be clear

Stone Motif wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

TiggerGirl wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. as a region the Ospreys are curtailing the WRU's wishes.

Not sure what you mean by that.

1 Kept their high profile Welsh players

2 Are turning their finances around, probably going to break even

3 Ticket sales and attendances are up

4 Academy producing plenty of great young players

5 Ospreys providing most of the Welsh team

6 likely to make the play offs in fact stand a good chance of holding on to it in current form

aha. thanks. You sounded negative (or I take curtail to be a negative word) about Ospreys which left me confused.

Ospreys are doing a lot right, but the other regions are doing some good things as well. Scarlets academy is hugely impressive - especially when you consider relative population catchment areas.

Yes all the academies are doing very well. It's the foundation of our game.

Yet paid for almost entirely by private investors rather than the Union, just to be clear

No the Academies are paid for in FULL by the the WRU.

In a statement released by the WRU, chief executive Roger Lewis said: "The WRU invests £6m in cash every year to the four regions, in addition to its funding of the four regional academies so is delighted to see the approach to build greater sustainability being taken."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16267538

While they imply they are funding the academies fully, they do not actually say that.

The WRU made a big point in their PR last week, that they give £15m to the regions. Would academy funding come into the £9m that is above the £6m for player release. Or is this £9m disbursement of TV monies? Or something else?

Maes is on another planet. The O's have come right out and said it, they get circa 100k off of the union towards the academy. Actual running cost as quoted by Andrew Hore? Upwards of 700k. Of course, you could run your academy off what the WRUin put in, but then you get the Dragons Academy. You know, the ones who didn't pick up on Toby Faletau for example. Praise be to Roger.

Stone Motif wrote:Maes is on another planet. The O's have come right out and said it, they get circa 100k off of the union towards the academy. Actual running cost as quoted by Andrew Hore? Upwards of 700k. Of course, you could run your academy off what the WRUin put in, but then you get the Dragons Academy. You know, the ones who didn't pick up on Toby Faletau for example. Praise be to Roger.

Find that quote and post it...!

They most certainly underperformed in 2007-2010. They had the following in and around the matchday squad!

Byrne; Bowe, Parker, Henson, Shane Williams, Hook, Marshall; Duncan Jones, Bennett, Adam Jones, Evans, Wyn Jones, Jonathan Thomas, Holah, Ryan Jones (capt).
Some others: Hibbard, James, Gough, Tiatia, Phillips, Bishop...

Maes, you state you are an Ospreys supporter, but when people who are not Os supporters quote facts that you should know that are true, you ask them to provide links, well if you are a true supporter and had been to either of the matches against Gloucester (LV) 9/11/12 or Edinburgh 22/2/13 (Rabo) you will find the information quoted in the matchday programme by our Chairman Geoff Atherton and I know who I would rather believe, why do you think after the WRU stated in their press release that they invited the Regions to a meeting and the Regions have said they want to meet only the full board of the WRU.

I've read and heard several of Geoff Atherton, Rob Davies and Andrew Hore have said.

You can accuse both sides in this debate of twisting words to suit the purpose intended. The Ospreys are not, as Atherton said investing 2.5 times what the WRU are in the academy.

A great deal of that Academy budget is in the National academy which benefits regional academy players.

Are the Ospreys funding the academy??? Not really, they are paying some of the academy players wages. And that number might equate to 2.5 times the direct funding that the WRU gives them if you get creative with numbers.

[quote="maestegmafia"]I've read and heard several of Geoff Atherton, Rob Davies and Andrew Hore have said.

You can accuse both sides in this debate of twisting words to suit the purpose intended. The Ospreys are not, as Atherton said investing 2.5 times what the WRU are in the academy.

A great deal of that Academy budget is in the National academy which benefits regional academy players.

Are the Ospreys funding the academy??? Not really, they are paying some of the academy players wages. And that number might equate to 2.5 times the direct funding that the WRU gives them if you get creative with numbers.[/quote
Well at least you now know who 2 of the 3 main benefactors of the Ospreys are unlike last year when you quoted Cuddy as the main benefactor when I told you on more than one occasion that he has never been the main benefactor, as somebody said on our forum as you would know if you frequented it
We are happy with our Hore, are you Wru happy with your lady of loose morals.
I ask again, Why will the 4 Region reps not meet with the Dodger, but will only meet the full board of the WRU over this issue

Back to the topic. The Os have never been a force in Europe since Hook attempted that failed (and arrogant) behind the back catch against Saracens in the 2008 q/f. In the eyes of most Ospreys' fans they were going to walk the HC that season.

The mojo of the 'Galacticos' was lost. Never regained; at least in Europe.

Just an opinion, but I don't think they have ever got over that loss, having been practically a whole Grand Slam winning team a year before.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Back to the topic. The Os have never been a force in Europe since Hook attempted that failed (and arrogant) behind the back catch against Saracens in the 2008 q/f. In the eyes of most Ospreys' fans they were going to walk the HC that season.

The mojo of the 'Galacticos' was lost. Never regained; at least in Europe.

Just an opinion, but I don't think they have ever got over that loss, having been practically a whole Grand Slam winning team a year before.

In the eyes of most non ospreys fans they were. Stuart Barnes must have said it every season for five years. Money doesn't always buy success. You would have thought that they had learned that by now.