When Cuthbert chose the Winners!

First topic message reminder :

I had always wondered what links Alex cuthbert had to Wales, I found that it was through his Welsh mother from the following article. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/03/14/england-was-never-for-me-insists-wales-wing-alex-cuthbert-91466-32982808/

He is one of a few born outside of Wales but each of them show this very same passion and determination. I don't see why some people need to question it and in particular the media having to refer to players as "the South African born" or "kiwi born."

Alex is quoted as saying:

“Mum always told me that I’m Welsh and from a rugby perspective I’ve always been in the Wales environment,” he said.

“I’ve come through the sevens set-up here and I am very happy and privileged to play for Wales.

“England never crossed my mind."

And the rest they say, is history!

I always think it's a bit odd that a 'country' has an anthem that most of them don't understand or know how to pronounce. Do they teach it in Welsh schools still?

It would be like Italy singing their anthem in Latin.

We haven't got the time to learn it Cyril, we're too busy winning

thebluesmancometh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Does anyone think now he's chosen Wales that he would say... "of course, England was the only option but when that never happened I took a punt with Wales".

Had he gone through the youth setup with England I can't imagine he would have turned his back on them.... but from what I recall hearing he got his chance in Wales and then it was a natural process.

He's just playing up to his fans.

Not quite the way he saw it when taking up the contract with the blues, he was always England football mad, but never wanted to be associated with English rugby.

Infact the reason he took the Blues contract was because of the chance to play rugby in Wales, he did have options I heard.

Perhaps but he got the blues contract whilst studying in Wales right? He wasn't with a England club side or had junior honours with England prior to that.

It would make sense for him to honour those who took the first punt on him.

A bit like Josh Lewsey in reverse... I've heard from someone who went to uni with him that he was Wales mad and that's all he used to talk about in terms of rugby in addition to being mainly of welsh origin... but he went through the ENG setup and they were the ones who gave him a shot etc so it was natural for him to chose them.

Nothing wrong with his choice and its romantic to think he always had his heart set on Wales but I would take that with a pinch of salt.

RubyGuby wrote:We haven't got the time to learn it Cyril, we're too busy winning

You had plenty of time last year Ruby. You should have been fluent by the time the Autumn Series had finished

It should be compulsory to learn Welsh at school in Wales I reckon.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I always think it's a bit odd that a 'country' has an anthem that most of them don't understand or know how to pronounce. Do they teach it in Welsh schools still?

It would be like Italy singing their anthem in Latin.

But what is the English anthem?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I always think it's a bit odd that a 'country' has an anthem that most of them don't understand or know how to pronounce. Do they teach it in Welsh schools still?

It would be like Italy singing their anthem in Latin.

But what is the English anthem?

Same as the British one. I imagine you'll have sung it at some point with pride in your heart.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I always think it's a bit odd that a 'country' has an anthem that most of them don't understand or know how to pronounce. Do they teach it in Welsh schools still?

It would be like Italy singing their anthem in Latin.

But what is the English anthem?

Same as the British one. I imagine you'll have sung it at some point with pride in your heart.

Hahahaha sorry matey I stand for no queen or god, never mind sing to them. I recommend 'Always look on the bright side of life' I imagine the Polish anthem will be more popular for you soon

Thought you'd still be driving the 6 nations bandwagon mikey. It's over, let it go. Here in Wales, it's back to football. The Epl, Cardiff going up. Swansea
Finishing strong. The token 6 weeks a year is on hold till 2014.

Yep, Welsh 'fans' put away their red shirts again for another year and get back to supporting Cardiff City, Swansea City, Man Utd and Liverpool.

Football's coming home to Wales again

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I always think it's a bit odd that a 'country' has an anthem that most of them don't understand or know how to pronounce. Do they teach it in Welsh schools still?

It would be like Italy singing their anthem in Latin.

As the only place that has Latin as an official language, Vatican City have recently reckoned that, and I quote, "the number of fluent Latin speakers is no more than 100" and "the real official language of the Vatican is Italian, not Latin" So it's hardly surprising that the Italians have decided to sing their anthem in their official language - Italian!

Wales on the other hand, have over 500,000 native Welsh speakers, 20%+ of the population - a few more than a 100 anyway, and I certainly know the words (and the meaning). Oh, by the way they DO still teach Welsh in schools.
Dw i'n caru Cymru.

RuggerBoy,

Those figures seem wildly inflated and will just be taken from census figures which are notoriously inaccurate. It's like people who think they can speak French because they can ask for a loaf of bread in a shop.

It should be compulsory in schools otherwise the decline will continue.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:RuggerBoy,

Those figures seem wildly inflated and will just be taken from census figures which are notoriously inaccurate. It's like people who think they can speak French because they can ask for a loaf of bread in a shop.

It should be compulsory in schools otherwise the decline will continue.

My word cyril you seem terribly concerned about a poor little country you seem to ridicule and despise with most of your pathetic posts. Hey! tell you what, why not pop over to the football forum after all we have packed our shirts away and gone there

Wales and the Welsh language have been around centuries before your ancestor types came to the shores of Briton and if the Romans did not put us down you lot had no chance and here we still are language and all.

Dal dy dir, Cymru am byth.

keyboard-warrior,

I lived in Wales for 16 years so I've got an interest in the place, mate. That's probably longer than you've lived there

I don't think there has been any insults, biltong.

It always begins like that Cyril someone making a smartarse comment and then it escalates

Biltong wrote:It always begins like that Cyril someone making a smartarse comment and then it escalates

Ah, the Minority Report approach to moderating. Hit them hard before they have a chance to commit any crimes.

Mod: Right you!
Poster: What?
Mod: You were thinking of typing something naughty.
Poster: Er, no I wasn't.
Mod: We have ways of knowing.
Poster: Oh crud.
Mod: Take him away
Poster: Noooooo!

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:RuggerBoy,

Those figures seem wildly inflated and will just be taken from census figures which are notoriously inaccurate. It's like people who think they can speak French because they can ask for a loaf of bread in a shop.

It should be compulsory in schools otherwise the decline will continue.

Actually Cyril, had I wanted to use the census I would have quoted you 35.3% of Welsh speakers for a street in Llandaff as a headliner, just to impress you like! I was merely being general and somewhat conservative, just to illustrate that half a million-ish is significantly more than a 100-ish.

And Biltong, I'm with Cyril on this one, it's only banter mate. Anyway, if it was about facts he'd know that Welsh has been a compulsory subject in Welsh schools since 1999, so he definitely wouldn't make the same mistake a number of times in suggesting that it SHOULD be compulsory - not a man of his learning (and having lived amongst the chosen people for 16 years!).

Biltong wrote:It always begins like that Cyril someone making a smartarse comment and then it escalates

Oh dear me again huh

........... 16 whole years, wow amazing stuff Cyril, few of the boys must have really upset you. I have children twice the age of that and shout loud and proud about being Welsh .... in Welsh. Pop to 'Y Tarw' in Llanerchymedd, Ynys Mon and get a pint off my sister who owns the pub. Ask for the pint in Welsh and you may get it for the usual price. You may even bump into George North if he is up the area, you'll be able to ask him what nationality he is....again in Welsh aye.

RuggerBoy wrote:Anyway, if it was about facts he'd know that Welsh has been a compulsory subject in Welsh schools since 1999, so he definitely wouldn't make the same mistake a number of times in suggesting that it SHOULD be compulsory - not a man of his learning (and having lived amongst the chosen people for 16 years!).

Hmmm, I didn't know that. I can only hang my head

16 years. Yep, you can get less for murder Seriously though, I had a good time there (Aberystwyth and Cardiff). Some of my best friends are Welsh

Cyril you're qualified on residency

RuggerBoy wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:RuggerBoy,

Those figures seem wildly inflated and will just be taken from census figures which are notoriously inaccurate. It's like people who think they can speak French because they can ask for a loaf of bread in a shop.

It should be compulsory in schools otherwise the decline will continue.

Actually Cyril, had I wanted to use the census I would have quoted you 35.3% of Welsh speakers for a street in Llandaff as a headliner, just to impress you like! I was merely being general and somewhat conservative, just to illustrate that half a million-ish is significantly more than a 100-ish.

And Biltong, I'm with Cyril on this one, it's only banter mate. Anyway, if it was about facts he'd know that Welsh has been a compulsory subject in Welsh schools since 1999, so he definitely wouldn't make the same mistake a number of times in suggesting that it SHOULD be compulsory - not a man of his learning (and having lived amongst the chosen people for 16 years!).

Mate it works like this.

Step 1 - a poster says something
Step 2 - a poster is offended
Step 3 - a poster reports it.
Step 4 - a mod reads the report
Step 5 - the mod has to act, so he assesses the reported comment. Now he has different ways to respond to it.
Option 1 - it is a mild situation that can escalate - minor warning
Option 2 - remove post or edit post accoridngly and send PM to offending poster
Option 3 - Serious offence warn poster with a ban
Option 4 - Just ban the offender

RubyGuby wrote:Cyril you're qualified on residency

Yeah, but it might have lapsed now as I've been back in England for nearly three years

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:
Both JD and George are fluent Welsh speakers. How many real Englishman speak Welsh. You are what you are raised to be. Their situation is completely different to say a Ricky Fluety and you know it, Naughty boy

John Redwood?

I think its more a question of 'who in their right mind would want to'.

Biltong - I didn't appreciate a poster has to report an objection. I assumed, silly me, that you mods just sat there trawling all day looking for an opportunity to pounce on some unsuspecting "ne'er do well".

I was quite happily bantering away with Cyril not realising, as I believe Cyril wasn't, that we were offending or insulting anyone because I certainly took no offence. Ah well, it only goes to show we're all different. I'll try and be more careful in future, if indeed it was me who had any part in giving offence.

And just to even things up with Cyril, some of my best friends are indeed English, but then again I've always had a weak spot for the afflicted. (Eeeek, there I go again.... )

Some of my best friends are Aus or NZ, some are arguably both like my friend Steve

RuggerBoy wrote:Biltong - I didn't appreciate a poster has to report an objection. I assumed, silly me, that you mods just sat there trawling all day looking for an opportunity to pounce on some unsuspecting "ne'er do well".

I was quite happily bantering away with Cyril not realising, as I believe Cyril wasn't, that we were offending or insulting anyone because I certainly took no offence. Ah well, it only goes to show we're all different. I'll try and be more careful in future, if indeed it was me who had any part in giving offence.

And just to even things up with Cyril, some of my best friends are indeed English, but then again I've always had a weak spot for the afflicted. (Eeeek, there I go again.... )

I will hold my hand up on this one, twas I who possibly popped a complaint in too early, possibly as it was at the time when the thread was going belly up I was, however, quite impressed as to how the thread went. Unfortunately a far more immature troll has just entered the thread so expect it to get uglier.

Touché

What's happened to Morg? He would love this thread I'm sure.

I can only assume Morg has been relieved of his posting privileges. What else would explain his long and increasingly pleasant silence?

Nobody denies that Cuthbert has ties to England (not to be taken as synonymous with him being fully English) and could have played for England if he'd wanted but his Welshness ultimately shone through and overpowered his English side...sort of like when they play each other at rugby

I am sure Welsh is very useful if you wish to spend much time in the places that RW mentioned, and to work out what the locals are saying about you, but then its just as easy to not go there at all.

Being serious for a sec Welsh is a very political issue, and despite its importance as part of a manufactured Welsh identity its value and usage vary dramatically across Wales as a whole.I lived in Swansea for 7 years, and that was never a Welsh speaking area (unlike the Gower), yet we got the same 'welsh content' in schools, dual language documentation (one part everyone can read, one part only a few) and had the same weird employment restrictions (Lots of public jobs require that you can 'speak welsh') and mandates as everywhere else.

Having a department where I worked that translated all public e-mails into a language that few could read and none needed to seemed like a huge waste of money. Keeping old languages alive is important, but there has to be a better, targeted way than that currently in place.

Regarding whether Cuthbert is being honest or simply 'playing towards the fans', I wouldn't be surprised either way. His wiki page states that he qualifies through his granny but then again the same source also states that he filled the slot vacated by the retired Shane Williams which is just made up. Shane always played 11, Cuthbert thus far has always played 14. There seems to be an incompetent amount of research put into some of these things by parties whose so-called function it is to know. I wouldn't be surprised if the interview linked by the OP was the first time Cuthbert's been asked directly about his family, before that people will have felt the strange need to assume.

Manufactured Welsh identity! The most pathetic yet pal if you dot like it find yourself and return to your country. Wales and Welsh are here to stay in fact the sooner we are free of Westminster the better.

Stop bickering.

Cuthbert just wanted to play for the best team!

One day, St David's Day will be a bank holiday...

rainbow-warrior wrote:Manufactured Welsh identity! The most pathetic yet pal if you dot like it find yourself and return to your country. Wales and Welsh are here to stay in fact the sooner we are free of Westminster the better.

Dont worry I have escaped - as have you I believe? To be honest I'd love to see what those idiots in Cardiff would do if the ties were cut from the idiots in Westminster. You would have thought they couldnt make things worse but I am sure they would find a way.

It is for me mikey, whether my employer says so or not!

lostinwales wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Manufactured Welsh identity! The most pathetic yet pal if you dot like it find yourself and return to your country. Wales and Welsh are here to stay in fact the sooner we are free of Westminster the better.

Dont worry I have escaped - as have you I believe? To be honest I'd love to see what those idiots in Cardiff would do if the ties were cut from the idiots in Westminster. You would have thought they couldnt make things worse but I am sure they would find a way.

So true...

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's happened to Morg? He would love this thread I'm sure.

Morg is the Op. WLG lived up the original mikeyphils rear end on the old 606, he lit a candle for him on here and took on his name.

lostinwales wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Manufactured Welsh identity! The most pathetic yet pal if you dot like it find yourself and return to your country. Wales and Welsh are here to stay in fact the sooner we are free of Westminster the better.

Dont worry I have escaped - as have you I believe? To be honest I'd love to see what those idiots in Cardiff would do if the ties were cut from the idiots in Westminster. You would have thought they couldnt make things worse but I am sure they would find a way.

Well I do recall that when those 'idiots' made prescriptions free, Hundreds of idiots east of Offas Dyke tried to register with Welsh surgeries. Insulting the Welsh Assembly is a trifle stupid when you see what wesminster are doing. My view is let them do it to England, the Welsh and Scottish far better going it alone. Oh by the way I have not escaped, I go home 4 times an year at lease....because I can.

I cant understand why some people get upset by these threads, no one is whiter than white when it comes to eligability.

I doubt there is any team out there that can pick their team purely from players born in that country.

Argentina can

Biltong wrote:Argentina can

I know some Argentinians that have played have Welsh ancestory. Patagonia has many regions where Welsh and Spanish are the only languages spoken.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:Argentina can

I know some Argentinians that have played have Welsh ancestory. Patagonia has many regions where Welsh and Spanish are the only languages spoken.

Could be, but we all ultimately come from Europe, don't we?

I read an article about the countries who had the most " qualified players from elsewhere" during the RWC in 2011, and Argentina was the "cleanest".

It's not could be at all.

Welsh people went to Argentina in the mid 19th century and these people went on to establish communities that still remain today, hence people speaking Spanish and Welsh only with no understanding of the English language. I have relatives there and I believe some 25,000 people speak Welsh there. That's more than speak English in some parts of England lol So I agree Argentina would be the cleanest.

rainbow-warrior wrote:It's not could be at all.

Welsh people went to Argentina in the mid 19th century and these people went on to establish communities that still remain today, hence people speaking Spanish and Welsh only with no understanding of the English language. I have relatives there and I believe some 25,000 people speak Welsh there. That's more than speak English in some parts of England lol So I agree Argentina would be the cleanest.

I don't mean coud be as in debatable, I am thinking generations.

So yeah as I say we all come from europe, but depending on 4th, 5th or whatever generation it is no longer really relevant in the sense of rugby qualification.

flyhalffactory wrote:So OP what are you trying to say that out of "backs" who play the "Welsh Way"

15 Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert
13 Davies
12 Roberts
11 North

Only two out of the five are actually Welsh, and the try scorers in the 6Ns for Wales were actually English North Cuthbert and Davies............... Ahhh I see what you are getting at now thanks for pointing that out. No wonder Rowntree & Lancaster cried foul, and there I was thinking they were complaining about the dodgy scrums

"for Wales" is probably redundant in that sentence. A pity the only English lads to dot down were playing for Wales!

No one really believes that you have to be born in a country to be of that country do they?
Anyway lots of us don't come from Europe no matter how many generations you look back. Central Africa may be...
I'm sure NZ could make a reasonable team from players born in NZ.
1 Woodcock
2 Mealamu
3 Franks (one was born in Aus so use the other one)
4 Whitelock
5 Retalick
6 Messam
7 McCaw
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Carter
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Jane
15 Dagg

[/quote]
Both JD and George are fluent Welsh speakers. How many real Englishman speak Welsh. You are what you are raised to be. Their situation is completely different to say a Ricky Fluety and you know it, Naughty boy [/quote]

How is it different? Fluety speaks English.

nganboy wrote:

Both JD and George are fluent Welsh speakers. How many real Englishman speak Welsh. You are what you are raised to be. Their situation is completely different to say a Ricky Fluety and you know it, Naughty boy [/quote]

How is it different? Fluety speaks English.[/quote]