O'Gara and Wilkinson Must Tour With Lions

So the northern hemisphere rugby reaches its crescendo those with the skill, tenacity and big game mentality step up:

Ronan O'Gara and Wilkinson both featured heavily in stand out fly half performances. This should be all Gatland needs to know about who as the credentials to shepard the Lions to glory. He needs to drop this ridiculous notion of Top 14 involvement ruling out Lions contention and immediately name Wilkinson as starting 10 with O'Gara as reserve.

That's O'Gara, Wilkinson, O'Connell and O'Driscoll? There'll be a lot of deja vu-ing for the spectators at those games! Especially given that only one of them was considered a month ago, and only then as an outside bet, when all the young things were doing their things at 6N. A month is a long time in rugby....

Why? Both too old and too slow and both limited players even at their best.

Slowness might be the only weapon going for Lions come test time. Don't knock it till you try it. Trying to match Australia at speed might work... but more probable is that Lions will try to slow them down.................

Games for old slow men with brains and experience??? Who knows. Gatland will decide.

Madigan's goal kicking percentage is higher than Wilkinsons this year

I expect it to be Sexton Farrell and Biggar but Wilko may well go after today. Likewise POC .....what is the situation with Gray's injury?

Currently my Test XV
Healey
Best
Jones
POC
AWJ
Warburton
Tipuric
Faletau
Philipps
Sexton
North
Roberts
BOD
Zebo
Hogg

Wilkinson slower than ever, but he's still got it in terms of kicking and tackling. Definitely prefer him to Flood on today's performance.

O'Gara? No, thanks. Have you forgotten the Scotland game already?

10s - Sexton, Biggar, Farrell / Wilko.

Then you think of the psychology, tactical nous, influence on the squad. Who would the Aussies NOT want to see lining up against them?

Sexton, Wilko, Biggar.

If Wilko goes the aussies will know that the threat of the Lions backs is negated especially if he is partnered with Phillips.

Youngs must be SH on this weekends performance and Sexton is by far the best 10 available to us.

The Aussies will also know they are facing one of the hardest tackling 10s in the game.

I don't doubt Sexton will start, but JW could easily be in the mix, given nobody else has really stepped up.

Furthermore, I very much doubt Gats will go for flowing back moves. He never has for Wales. It will be hard-nosed, attritional stuff, based on forward grunt and big boshing backs. Far from having potential to negate, I think our likely backs are pretty limited, though very effective in their own way. Compared to the Aussie backline, which is full of game-breakers.

Lions strength will be in fielding big, strong nasty men across the park.

And if you need a last minute drop goal to win the series - who you gonna call?

TJ wrote:Why? Both too old and too slow and both limited players even at their best.

People who think Johnny was a "limited" player have blatantly not watched much of him. And if your going to list...couldnt run ball in hand, pass etc...then i suggest you watch some of his earlier games for England, when the guy played some scintilating rugby..

I believe that JW and POC should seriously be considered after yesterdays performance.
POC in particular was immense and a deserved MOM, he has helluva engine, controlled aggression and very clever/aware of the players around him. Revealing an empathy with players on and off the pitch, He seems the epitome of the player that Gatland had talked about when he stated Form was only one criteria but not the only one.

JW was clearly the dominant back in a star studded and high quality match, impeccable kicking and tackles that would better his Lions 10 potentials to shame.

With what 8-10 games to go before the first test that will be enough to get the Lydiates Rennies and POCs of this world match fit.

I hope that POC is on the plane already and Wilks seriously looked at

NO. DEFFO NO.

O'gara was a shambles last time on the Lions tour. And Wilkinson although he is a master of the big game. His time as come for him like BOD too retire from the game and make way for the younger generation.

GloriousEmpire wrote:So the northern hemisphere rugby reaches its crescendo those with the skill, tenacity and big game mentality step up:

Ronan Ogara and Wilkinson both featured heavily in stand out fly half performances. This should be all Gatland needs to know about who as the credentials to shepard the Lions to glory. He needs to drop this ridiculous notion of Top 14 involvement ruling out Lions contention and immediately name Wilkinson as starting 10 with O'Gara as reserve.

ROG...Lions credentials? Do you not remember the 2nd test in 09?

Hopefully O'Gara and Wilko will not tour. They can both kick goals, wow!!

Neither are good enough. Biggar, Sexton, Madigan and WilkoV2 are all younger and better now.

I would select Sexton, Madigan and WilkoV2.

Madigon = untried. Sexton = tried and failed. Biggar = ditto

Only JW and O'Gara have the potential and experience and maturity. They will have learned from their past experiences and be "bigger" than the occasion allowing clear and rational approach to the games. Both top game managers with big game heads.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Madigon = untried. Sexton = tried and failed. Biggar = ditto

Only JW and O'Gara have the potential and experience and maturity. They will have learned from their past experiences and be "bigger" than the occasion allowing clear and rational approach to the games. Both top game managers with big game heads.

and neither of them play regular international rugby anymore because neither are good enough to play international rugby anymore.

Actually i disagree about Johnny...i think he could very well play international. He put his body on the line countless times...and finally chose himsaelf to call it a day and go and play in a nice environment in France...can anyone really knock him from that.

Should he tour..well who knows..i wouldnt be pushing it, but wouldnt be concerned if he was chosen.
As for WilkoV2...i dont think theres a doubt he is improving...and he's only 20/21...but he's another who might be better sticking with England in Argentina this summer...

Ok, ROG and JW have more three pointers than Chris Huhne but picking one or both would be a massive backward step. Neither carry any threat with ball in hand (as Geordie says, JW did but that was some time ago)
Hell, I would even want Farrell picked ahead of either of them

Lions will probably take 3 fly halves, unless there's a utility back in the squad.

Sexton will be first choice. Biggar did enough to go.

Flood was just comprehensively outplayed by Wilkinson. Man vs boy.

Farrell lacks big game composure and doesn't have the tackling and DG technique.

Forget about ROG. His cameo in Scotland vs. Ireland spelt the end of the line for him.

Who you gonna call?

samuraidragon wrote:Lions will probably take 3 fly halves, unless there's a utility back in the squad.

Sexton will be first choice. Biggar did enough to go.

Flood was just comprehensively outplayed by Wilkinson. Man vs boy.

Farrell lacks big game composure and doesn't have the tackling and DG technique.

Forget about ROG. His cameo in Scotland vs. Ireland spelt the end of the line for him.

Who you gonna call?

Sexton needs to become first choice for Leinster first, never mind Lions..

Who is ahead of him at Leinster?

A certain Ian Madigan???

4 times MOTM in 5 Leinster games, a very solid performance behind a beaten Leinster pack against Ulster, and was the only glimmer of light in the catastrophic Irish defeat against Italy.

Sensational running game, has an even better pass, strong in defence, unfortunately his goal kicking remains a weakness though, only 94% so far this year.

The Six Nations has shown us all the best fly half in the Home Nations, ain't playing at the moment (Sexton) or ain't playing internationals at all any more (Jonny).

Lesser, or lesser experienced, 10s may look OK from time to time, but will eventually get our backsides kicked all the way back up north. Not the way any of us hopes the season would play out. I struggle to find another international level 10 I feel comfortable with at the moment. Not one. Therefore we need an aggressive, play making 12 and a powerful player at 13. Speed on one wing and power on the other. And a full back who is not afraid to get hurt after getting at least 20 kicks per match.

I can accept, but not really be happy, if Simon Shaw is not selected.

100%beefy wrote:I expect it to be Sexton Farrell and Biggar but Wilko may well go after today. Likewise POC .....what is the situation with Gray's injury?

Currently my Test XV
Healey
Best
Jones
POC
AWJ
Warburton
Tipuric
Faletau
Philipps
Sexton
North
Roberts
BOD
Zebo
Hogg

Ridiculous team.

What has Zebo done? Cuthbert is currently the best wing in the NH. The lions need tries.

Halfpenny is also a must.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

100%beefy wrote:I expect it to be Sexton Farrell and Biggar but Wilko may well go after today. Likewise POC .....what is the situation with Gray's injury?

Currently my Test XV
Healey
Best
Jones
POC
AWJ
Warburton
Tipuric
Faletau
Philipps
Sexton
North
Roberts
BOD
Zebo
Hogg

Ridiculous team.

What has Zebo done? Cuthbert is currently the best wing in the NH. The lions need tries.

Halfpenny is also a must.

BOD/Hogg and Zebo are the closest the Lions have to the Aussie backs, the rest on offer are blunt instruments, even half only runs in a straight line.....and please edify us with your non ridiculous team

1.Sheridan 2.Hibbard 3.A Jones 4.Shaw 5.POC 6.R Jones 7.Robshaw 8.Easter 9.Phillips 10.Wilkinson 11.North 12.Tindall 13.BOD 14.Roberts 15.Kearney

The Lions team of nightmares, the side Sir Clive Woodward would choose for Australia.....

funnyExiledScot wrote:1.Sheridan 2.Hibbard 3.A Jones 4.Shaw 5.POC 6.R Jones 7.Robshaw 8.Easter 9.Phillips 10.Wilkinson 11.North 12.Tindall 13.BOD 14.Roberts 15.Kearney

The Lions team of nightmares, the side Sir Clive Woodward would choose for Australia.....

He'd probably O'Gara at full-back

123456789 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:1.Sheridan 2.Hibbard 3.A Jones 4.Shaw 5.POC 6.R Jones 7.Robshaw 8.Easter 9.Phillips 10.Wilkinson 11.North 12.Tindall 13.BOD 14.Roberts 15.Kearney

The Lions team of nightmares, the side Sir Clive Woodward would choose for Australia.....

He'd probably O'Gara at full-back

Not sir Clive Woodward.

Martin Johnson,Maybe.

Despite his tries having been a big part of us winning the championship and tha fact he does know his way to the try line I am not a big Cuthbert fan as his defence is poor, that said I would have him in side over North currently.

samuraidragon wrote:Lions will probably take 3 fly halves, unless there's a utility back in the squad.

Sexton will be first choice. Biggar did enough to go.

Flood was just comprehensively outplayed by Wilkinson. Man vs boy.

Farrell lacks big game composure and doesn't have the tackling and DG technique.

Forget about ROG. His cameo in Scotland vs. Ireland spelt the end of the line for him.

Who you gonna call?

Perhaps one of the most idiotic comments I have seen on these boards. Farrell lacks big game composure?

You mean like in an Aviva Premiership Final? Perhaps a HC quarter final? Ok let's move onto internationals- Farrell has actually done pretty well. Great composure shown vs NZ and Ireland, France away. Really good vs Scotland.


Didn't do so well vs Wales but hamstrung by a pack getting smashed and a misfiring backline.

Farrell has generally shown the big match temperament but did look rattled against Wales - mind you he was not the only one. He will tour tho for sure. Sexton, Farrell , A.N.Other I would have thought and Laidlaw might get the nod as he can cover both halfback positions. Flood is the other obvious choice. Laidlaw would give Gatland more flexibility in the backs.

I would like a better choice of flyhalfs but this is the best we have

TJ wrote:Farrell has generally shown the big match temperament but did look rattled against Wales - mind you he was not the only one. He will tour tho for sure. Sexton, Farrell , A.N.Other I would have thought and Laidlaw might get the nod as he can cover both halfback positions. Flood is the other obvious choice. Laidlaw would give Gatland more flexibility in the backs.

I would like a better choice of flyhalfs but this is the best we have

TJ like most fly halves he finds it tough when his pack is getting battered.

Look at Carter vs England last autumn as an example.

If Tuilagi had picked up a relatively simple pass by Farrell it could have been a try for England early on. Could have changed the whole match on it's head. The Welsh loss was a collective one - funnily enough the focus of blame went on Farrell and Ashton.

Farrell was not at all helped by his fellow backs or forwards. Farrell can be criticised for not getting his 2 kicks though.

Agree with Beshocked - Farrell is not the perfect 10, but big match temperament is not something he lacks. I've been very impressed with his attitude and his game is developing nicely. He'll never be Dan Carter, he doesn't have the pace and step, but his distribution is improving as is his tactical kicking game. His defence has always been excellent.

Ian McGeechan has already labelled him a "test match animal" - high praise from a coach who would certainly recognise one.

My view on the 10 jersey aligns with TJ - Sexton and Farrell go, with the 3rd choice fly half still to be decided. Biggar and Flood will no doubt be on the radar, and James Hook as well I suspect. Ian Madigan a possible bolter, he'd certainly be an exciting choice.

Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

I think Gatland will go with Sexton, Farrell and Hook and leave Biggar to develop his game on the welsh tour

RubyGuby wrote:I think Gatland will go with Sexton, Farrell and Hook and leave Biggar to develop his game on the welsh tour

Hook would be a leftfield choice because he doesnt play International rugby anymore. He is a good player though and has of course toured with the Lions before. Maybe his versatility will stand to him who knows. He is also only 27 so should be at the peak of his powers but he is a bit of a hit and miss player.

I would go for Madigan over him but I am biased.

Sexton, Farrell and Wilko.

Madigan as utility back.

2 current internationals.
1 old head
1 bolter
1/2 penny as an additional place kicker.

Covers all the bases

rodders wrote:Sexton, Farrell and Wilko.

Madigan as utility back.

2 current internationals.
1 old head
1 bolter
1/2 penny as an additional place kicker.

Covers all the bases

I think thats the most sensible combination.

What Gatland needs is options. There is not that much difference between Farrell and Bigger.... so what is the point of bringing both if Sexton is your no.1? If you need to change the game swapping like for like is not going to change matters.

Wilkinson is a proven pressure player and can grind a team down with penalties and drop goals. Come the 2nd test if you need someone to calm heads then who better to bring off the bench? Farrell may be called the ice-man by some but in the high pressure moments (NZ does not count as pressure was off) i.e. vs. Wales and SA in the 3rd test he struggled.

GunsGerms wrote:Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

Based on what exactly?

faa019 you pick out Farrell's moments when he did not perform well. Easy to knock him when you just focus on them - not for example his form vs Ireland home and away, France away, AP final, HC quarter final,Scotland game.

He's not the finished article but at only 21 is that surprising?


We'll see the Farrell vs Jonny battle in the HC. That's something to look forward to.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

Based on what exactly?

faa019 you pick out Farrell's moments when he did not perform well. Easy to knock him when you just focus on them - not for example his form vs Ireland home and away, France away, AP final, HC quarter final,Scotland game.

He's not the finished article but at only 21 is that surprising?


We'll see the Farrell vs Jonny battle in the HC. That's something to look forward to.

Ireland away he did well I raise my cap to that... the other matches there was no similar pressure. The pressure of the Wales match needed a England player to make those kicks to keep them in the game... had he done that Wales themselves would have felt it more and it would have been far closer (not just because he would score the goals.).

All I'm suggesting is that in a one off series, with the 2nd test having pressure only equalled in a RWC final you can't have any doubts over the capabilities of your place kicker. JW is a sure thing and if the Lions needed someone to drag the lions across the victory line in the last 20mins and we had a choice of Farrell and Wilkinson I'd go with JW every time.

To be honest I can see the fly half choices being Sexton, Biggar, Farrell. I think Hook will sneak in somehow as a centre, or fullback or ball boy. Also I remember reading somewhere that Gats will not be selecting players who will be involved in the later stages of hte French league, so that should rule Wilko out of contention, but put him on the reserve list instead.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

Based on what exactly?

faa019 you pick out Farrell's moments when he did not perform well. Easy to knock him when you just focus on them - not for example his form vs Ireland home and away, France away, AP final, HC quarter final,Scotland game.

He's not the finished article but at only 21 is that surprising?


We'll see the Farrell vs Jonny battle in the HC. That's something to look forward to.

Based on his saved sides, high on top hair cut. The guy is a class act. He has got it all.

He is the leading points scorer in the Rabo, he has scored 6 tries from outhalf so far this season. More than any Rabo OH since Contepomi got 9 in 05/06 and the season isnt over yet. Third most tries from an OH in the Rabo ever behind Henson (7 in 03 and Felipe in 06).

He also scored a try in his last match in the Amlin Quarter win v Wasps.

The guys is just gifted.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

Based on what exactly?

faa019 you pick out Farrell's moments when he did not perform well. Easy to knock him when you just focus on them - not for example his form vs Ireland home and away, France away, AP final, HC quarter final,Scotland game.

He's not the finished article but at only 21 is that surprising?


We'll see the Farrell vs Jonny battle in the HC. That's something to look forward to.

Based on his saved sides, high on top hair cut. The guy is a class act. He has got it all.

He is the leading points scorer in the Rabo, he has scored 6 tries from outhalf so far this season. More than any Rabo OH since Contepomi got 9 in 05/06 and the season isnt over yet. Third most tries from an OH in the Rabo ever behind Henson (7 in 03 and Felipe in 06).

He also scored a try in his last match in the Amlin Quarter win v Wasps.

The guys is just gifted.

I should have guessed - he plays in the Pro12. That makes him god's gift to the world.

If he is as good as you say why isn't he starting for Ireland?

If he's that gifted what's Paddy Jackson doing as your number 2

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest I can see the fly half choices being Sexton, Biggar, Farrell.

3 guys who've never toured before, 2 of whom are fairly inexperienced internationally? I doubt Gatland would take such a risk. All these guys have played huge games but the Lions is a different level of pressure with the media interest and touring demands.

I think Wilko has to be involved somewhere. Even as just a midweek captain and test back up.

He and O'Driscoll in particular have massive profiles in Australia and if they can do the job on the field would bring huge benefits off it too.

If he wants variety at O Half he can take Sexton, Hook and Wilko

rodders wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest I can see the fly half choices being Sexton, Biggar, Farrell.

3 guys who've never toured before, 2 of whom are fairly inexperienced internationally? I doubt Gatland would take such a risk. All these guys have played huge games but the Lions is a different level of pressure with the media interest and touring demands.

I think Wilko has to be involved somewhere. Even as just a midweek captain and test back up.

He and O'Driscoll in particular have massive profiles in Australia and if they can do the job on the field would bring huge benefits off it too.

Even though Gats said he said that he will not be taking anyone involved in the later stages on the French League as it clashes with the Lions training (and warm up match?).

GloriousEmpire wrote:Madigon = untried. Sexton = tried and failed. Biggar = ditto

Only JW and O'Gara have the potential and experience and maturity. They will have learned from their past experiences and be "bigger" than the occasion allowing clear and rational approach to the games. Both top game managers with big game heads.

pretty sure Biggar was instrumental in beating England by a record score and winning the championship. of all the players mentioned he is the only one with any intensional form.

Gats has history of saying things that don't turn out be true.

That was a thinly veiled dig at the Welsh boys moving to France. I very much doubt anything will come off it. He'll pick the guys he believes can do the job.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Madigan will get the nod he is the form man in the NH and could light up the tour.

Based on what exactly?

faa019 you pick out Farrell's moments when he did not perform well. Easy to knock him when you just focus on them - not for example his form vs Ireland home and away, France away, AP final, HC quarter final,Scotland game.

He's not the finished article but at only 21 is that surprising?


We'll see the Farrell vs Jonny battle in the HC. That's something to look forward to.

Based on his saved sides, high on top hair cut. The guy is a class act. He has got it all.

He is the leading points scorer in the Rabo, he has scored 6 tries from outhalf so far this season. More than any Rabo OH since Contepomi got 9 in 05/06 and the season isnt over yet. Third most tries from an OH in the Rabo ever behind Henson (7 in 03 and Felipe in 06).

He also scored a try in his last match in the Amlin Quarter win v Wasps.

The guys is just gifted.

I should have guessed - he plays in the Pro12. That makes him god's gift to the world.

If he is as good as you say why isn't he starting for Ireland?

Many people think he should start for Ireland actually. Now that Declan Kidneys time is up he probably will particularly if Joe Schmid, fingers crossed, takes over.

If you arent familiar with Madigan just youtube him. His running game is sublime.