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PGA Tour: HE'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Masters: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: HE'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Masters: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 14 Empty PGA Tour: HE'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Masters: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Tue 09 Apr 2013, 3:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Martin Laird of course; you didn't think I was talking about the guy who's on the cover of every golf magazine and even some others did you? Or even that young Northern Irishman we've heard so much about?

No, Martin Laird's fantastic final round last Sunday in San Antonio not only stuck two fingers through the Ballwasher who doubted his resolve after a dismal nine-month spell. But also earned a ticket to Augusta National and finds himself in the "long shot, stranger things have happened, but not many" category for The Masters. More on that later.

2).The TPC San Antonio, ("Greg Norman designs golf courses to test professional golfers, not to please professional golfers," said Padraig Harrington), certainly looked much easier on the eye than in years past and it seemed that most pros who turned up enjoyed their week; some will hopefully even be back.
But play was dreadfully slow and one young American is just another guilty party who I hadn't spotted before. Daniel Summerhays, good lord, how long does it take you to hit the golf ball? Summerhays seemed to turn to Winterhays during some of his pre-shot routines.

3).And, while our thoughts turn to Magnolia Drive, our annual word in tribute to the Welshman from Bangor, Errie Ball, who played in the first Masters and is still alive today, hopefully to tell the tale, at 102.

4).Billy Payne has two new members this year, one who's just gone up one rung, presumably, on the list of the World's most evil women, the other who got her invite the old-fashioned way, thru' connections. (Have a personal interest in Darla Moore's richly endowed University of South Carolina's Moore School Of Business, so pleased to see her being honoured with a membership.)

5).With McIlroy and Woods striking form, I'd say this Masters, more than most, is almost certain to go to a favourite if, not necessarily, THE favourite. So let's look at some long shots and the owgr Top 25 for a form guide, with all the usual biases of course:

"Long shots, stranger things have happened, but not many":

#269: Angel Cabrera: You may think there's more chance of him attending Thatcher's funeral but, hey, this man hasn't forgotten how to play the game, he's physically fitter, has shown glimpses of form, and knows how to win - and how many can say that?

#56: Well, Martin Laird certainly can! 20th first time around Augusta, 50-something last year, but if he can putt like last week who knows? He hits the ball perfectly for the course, but it will be all about course management and his short game for Martin. The Laird of San Antonio with 22 Sunday putts, or the Laird of Florida when he took eight 3-putts each at Bay Hill and Tampa?

#41: Henrik Stenson: Eccentric as ever but plenty long enough and can putt well. On my e.w. list at 75/1.

#38: Scott Piercy: Thinks he's the best golfer the world has ever seen. Still seething at the perceived injustice of not being interviewed on TV after his demolition of Luke Donald at the MatchPlay. The favourite, in his eyes anyway, and don't you dare discount his chances!

6).21 - 25:
#25: Furyk: Planning to attack Augusta with two drivers but hasn't done better than 4th here and not likely to this week.

#24: Els: Terrible year so far, seems to have lost confidence just when he needs it most.

#23: Watney: Jekyll and Hyde, Would love to see him take the proverbial next step but don't see it this week.

#22: Hanson: 3rd last year but in much better form coming in than this year's version. Wouldn't count him out completely, top ten material.

#21: Mahan: A couple of Masters' top tens under his belt, but something's been missing this past year and I can't see him finding it at Augusta.

7).16 - 20:
#20: Simpson: His US Open win apart, hasn't really had that great a last 18 months. Can't see it improving here.

#19: Dustin Johnson: Augusta National is made for Dustin - no par 5's here for him, but nothing inside the Top 30 here yet, and his dodgy short game will frustrate him again this week.

#18: Dufner: Good start a year ago but faded. If his Dufnering pic's are anything to go by he's still asleep.

#17: McDowell: Top 15 material, doesn't fancy some of the tee shots here and, until he does, can't see him contending.

#16: Garcia: This place frustrates the sh1t out of him. Shame, might get close, but not close enough.

8).11 - 15:
#15: Schwartzel: 2011 winner and no reason to think he can't win another one. Except none of the five South African Major (and Players) winners these past eight years have won since on the PGA Tour. Top three candidate.

#14: Bubba Watson: It's all about his emotions - I fancy a left-hander but perhaps not this one.

#13: Westwood: Nope, not this year, Lee, not until your short game and your long game are on the same page. But, if he can somehow be -10 on the par fives, he'll be right there. Nah.

#12: Poulter: Would love to see Poults win a Biggie but reckon Augusta National is too long for him, too much pressure on his mid and long irons. Top 15 though.

#11: Bradley: Lots of top tens this year and may score another one. Plenty long enough but can't see that short game winning a Green Jacket.

9).6 - 10:
#10: Kuchar: 3rd last year, plods along with that inane-looking, sh1t-eating grin of his and, hey presto, he's right there. Top 5 perhaps, but Green Jacket? Perhaps not, e.w. value though at 33/1 or 40's.

#9: Mickelson: My choice last year and should've, would've and certainly could've . . . . Those triple bogeys did him in. My idea of the man to beat, not scared to win and probably doesn't want it so manically much as Number One.

#8: Stricker: Says he's "still trying to figure out Augusta". I bracket him with Poults, his long game puts too much pressure on his world-class short game; top 20 probable but can't see him in the shake-up.

#7: Scott: No form to speak of this season; plays a bizarre schedule and who knows if he's up for this? Not worth the risk.

#6: Oosthuizen: Difficult for me to separate the two South African Kings: He was devastated by last year's play-off defeat, but can he bounce back? Sh1t or bust I'd think - at his best a sure-fire contender.

10).1 - 5:
#5: Snedeker: Has been out injured for most of the past two months, no cuts made since his early season super form. Certainly has the game, but feel he's still slightly under-cooked for this week. The Sneds of the past year a certain Major winner - just not this week.

#4: Donald: No form for ages. The 2011 model Luke would be a contender anywhere, but not the short-and-crooked version of years ago which has made an unwelcome return - might get away with it at Hilton Head but not 150 miles up the road at Augusta.

#3: Rose: Which Justin will we see? The winner at such top courses as Aronomink and Muirfield Village, or the strutter who flatters only to deceive, but then burns up the final nine holes for a back-door podium finish? Until he can prove that he won't wilt when the heat turns up, I'd have him down as a likely top tenner, not a winner.

#2: And then there's Rory. If his confidence right now was as high as Scott Piercy's I'd ink him in to his first Green Jacket, but his driver left him a bit last Sunday and he won't be "back" until he's back. Not many would be surprised to see him win; me neither, but perhaps not this year.

#1: Tiger: The only person who can beat Tiger is Tiger, and his ambition and anxiety to earn his next Major. Until he does it, I'd bet against him and gamble that Tiger will beat Tiger. As we saw at Bay Hill, though, the old intimidation factor is back and, if he putts like he did in Orlando and hits 60% of the fairways, he'll win this. For me, I'd bet the field against him.


Can't wait though, although we'll have to put up with the unctuous, over-reverential tones of CBS - would be nice to think they'll have a commentator under the age of 50, a breath of fresh air so sorely needed, but no chance of that. The weather should have the course in perfect condition, but there's a chance of severe storms Thursday p.m. into Friday, after which the sun will shine.

I fancy Phil to win, but Bones (perhaps the only born-in-Britain winner this year?) has to keep him focussed. Reckon Louis and Charl will be right there and fancy Kuchar as best outsider, Stenson best complete long-shot.



Last edited by kwinigolfer on Tue 09 Apr 2013, 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by AlciG Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:16 pm

blisteringblue wrote:
AlciG wrote:

Or you could just have played better and beat a man that had an almost certain 4 turned into an 8 by an unlucky bounce. Golf really needs to come out of the dark ages and change the rules to better suite the times we live in. It ridiculous that a TV viewer can change the outcome of a tournament. Especially as some players have so much more TV exposure and therefor are scrutinized more then others.


I agree on both points and hate that armchair ref's can do this, but it doesn't change the fact that if this had been Lee Westwood or Justin Rose they would no longer be in the tournament.

I wouldn't have agreed with those being thrown out either. We live in a different world then the one the rules were designed for. How big is the chance that if this had been somebody like say Craig Stadler (no disrespect) that a TV viewer would have called in or let alone seen the drop? You open such a can of worms when you allow viewers to call in and do this.

What's to stop players from paying lots of people to have follow all their competition and and the slightest sight of something that might be wrong even if the player was not aware call in.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:18 pm

faldo is 100#% spot on ..

however i am well up for getting rid of this dq for signing the incorrect card- but apply it to everyone- not just woods.. So I also agree with fehertys position..

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Post by Conehead Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:19 pm

Forum filter puts sausage instead of c o c k up? Strange?

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Post by Guest Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:19 pm

AlciG wrote:

What's to stop players from paying lots of people to have follow all their competition and and the slightest sight of something that might be wrong even if the player was not aware call in.

Nothing at all, and I am glad that a precedent is now set so it is unlikely to happen again. But I just wish it was for golfing integrity reasons and not TV ratings.

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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:20 pm

Superb charge from Tim Clark, and I'd be surprised if his ends up with a crash like Bubba's...

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Post by golfermartin Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:23 pm

In this case it wasn't trial by TV after the event. I understand that some commentators at the time thought that the drop looked a bit dodgy and said so in commentary. The fact remains that ignorance of the rules is no defence.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:25 pm

I'm struggling to see why Guan hasn't been ticketed again.
Where's John Paramor?

There's no consistency here; isn't two holes behind enough??

martin:
Spot on, and that's what seems to be rankling the pros who are commenting.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:27 pm

why hasnt that 14 yr old kid learnt anything!!

if i was his playing partners i would rush the little runt on a bit!

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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:39 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:I'm struggling to see why Guan hasn't been ticketed again.
Where's John Paramor?.
Where is that showing? Based on the official Masters LB he seems just the one hole behind Grace and Glover, as he should be..

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:46 pm

on the ahmen corner coverage he just finished 11 as they finished 13..

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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:53 pm

For those wondering what's El Pato's secret for playing so well this week...

http://www.cadena3.com/contenido/2013/03/06/110404.asp

...or if you want more 'evidence' just google "coki ramirez photos"...

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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 5:59 pm

mystiroakey wrote:on the ahmen corner coverage he just finished 11 as they finished 13..
...don't think that broadcast is shown all in real time/sequence though, so I wouldn't take that as a reference...

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Post by Sand Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:01 pm

Whole thing is just a mess and a nonsense!! Tiger admitted trying to bend the rules to his advantage, so he could play same shot that he pitched too far up green originally, yet he's still in the tournament. Just doesn't sit well at all.

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Post by incontinentia Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:16 pm

Sand wrote:Whole thing is just a mess and a nonsense!! Tiger admitted trying to bend the rules to his advantage, so he could play same shot that he pitched too far up green originally, yet he's still in the tournament. Just doesn't sit well at all.
He admitted no such thing, most likely he simply confused the rule. Yes he probably got preferential treatment and that sucks but lets move on.
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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:18 pm

Not sure if there's any issue with Guan's pace today, but seems to suit Olesen down to the ground playing with him... 5-under after 15 holes today!

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Post by Sand Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:24 pm

incontinentia wrote:
Sand wrote:Whole thing is just a mess and a nonsense!! Tiger admitted trying to bend the rules to his advantage, so he could play same shot that he pitched too far up green originally, yet he's still in the tournament. Just doesn't sit well at all.
He admitted no such thing, most likely he simply confused the rule. Yes he probably got preferential treatment and that sucks but lets move on.

Em he went back two yards as it was a better yardage for him to play the shot he wanted too??

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Post by incontinentia Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:32 pm

because he thought he could under the rules, there's no way he tried to bend the rules, and even if he did there's no way he would talk about it in his interview after the round!
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Post by pedro Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:37 pm

This is a farce. The rules book is the longest in sport, yet no one knows the rules. Maybe they should do something about it...?

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:51 pm

this isnt a tough rule in my mind pedro. tiger was ignorant and complacant.

however dq'ing for signing an incorrect card needs to be stopped with only the penalty that should have been awarded or score to be updated...



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Post by gaelgowfer Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:58 pm

Disgusted with the Augusta ctte's decision. It stinks.

Seems to me Tiger Woods is about to lose an opportunity to show that he is a changed man. WD from the tournament would show the Augusta ctte and ROW that he is capable of acting with integrity.

I don't believe for one moment that Tiger Woods tried to take advantage but ignorance of rules is no defence and he should have WD. That he hasn't thusfar speaks volumes that he hasn't changed.

Bobby Jones must be turning in his grave.


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Post by SmithersJones Sat 13 Apr 2013, 6:59 pm

Sorry, I took it from that red button thing that it wasn't the tv rule they'd invoked, but it was. I can't see how this works at all now. The examples in the rule make it clear that it's for something the player COULDN'T HAVE known about, but HD evidence reveals. Woods SHOULD have known, and most certainly could have. As you were, this is b0ll0cks.
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Post by Skydriver Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:08 pm

There was another "Watergate" incident some years ago. It led to the resignation of a very high profile American.

Perhaps history doesn't always repeat itself.

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Post by Diggers Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:17 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:Disgusted with the Augusta ctte's decision. It stinks.

Seems to me Tiger Woods is about to lose an opportunity to show that he is a changed man. WD from the tournament would show the Augusta ctte and ROW that he is capable of acting with integrity.

I don't believe for one moment that Tiger Woods tried to take advantage but ignorance of rules is no defence and he should have WD. That he hasn't thusfar speaks volumes that he hasn't changed.

Bobby Jones must be turning in his grave.


Gael how many players do you think would have withdrawn ? Do you think Rory would have, Rose, Westwood Kuchar ?
I really do t think any of them would have when they were still on with a shot at winning. Of course maybe they wouldn't have had to as they would have been dq!d anyway but that's just conjecture.

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Post by Shotrock Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:30 pm

Bobby Jones? Idolize him all you want, but in his day a man who was part of the leadership that made sure all the members were white while all the caddies black.

Tiger's got a massive hill to climb.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:32 pm

Rors picked up a shot!

up to 3 under

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Post by AlciG Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:36 pm

Shotrock wrote:Bobby Jones? Idolize him all you want, but in his day a man who was part of the leadership that made sure all the members were white while all the caddies black.

Tiger's got a massive hill to climb.

Isn't that why this is a so called 'gentleman's sport'?? Only for white males. No colored people or women allowed.

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:42 pm

Nick Faldo has balls- He says exactly what he thinks.. I wonder what BS monty is going to talk on this subject... He is gonna be like ohhhh ummmm yeahhhhh blahhhhhh.,....

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Post by gaelgowfer Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:44 pm

Not one of your more intelligent questions Diggers.

What you should be questioning is why the augusta ctte didn't DQ Tiger Woods. In my opinion, Rule 33-7 has been abused. It was never meant for the kind of situation Tiger found himself in.

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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:47 pm

And after all the hyped reaction to his birdie at the 1st, there he is droping it back at the 4th...

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Post by navyblueshorts Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:51 pm

Bit slow to join the party. This decision is an absolute disgrace. Who gives a 4X whether he did this in innocence???? Since when has ignorance of the rules, especially to gain an advantage, been a defence???

Is there any creditable evidence that TW queried what he did on 15 yesterday with an official before signing for his score?
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Post by princedracula Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:51 pm

...and a lovely start of the bbc live coverage showing Tiger spitting on the 5th fairway. So, all's back to normal....

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Post by gaelgowfer Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:56 pm

Shotrock wrote:Bobby Jones? Idolize him all you want, but in his day a man who was part of the leadership that made sure all the members were white while all the caddies black.

Tiger's got a massive hill to climb.

Don't forget ... no women Shotrock!

Now why would you have forgotten that? Whistle Wink


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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 7:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Bit slow to join the party. This decision is an absolute disgrace. Who gives a 4X whether he did this in innocence???? Since when has ignorance of the rules, especially to gain an advantage, been a defence???

Is there any creditable evidence that TW queried what he did on 15 yesterday with an official before signing for his score?


No but they have 100% admitted (complete rubbish by the way) that they had a look at it and judged it to be ok without him being present- therefore no they are saying he didnt quiery it.

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Post by Diggers Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:04 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:Not one of your more intelligent questions Diggers.

What you should be questioning is why the augusta ctte didn't DQ Tiger Woods. In my opinion, Rule 33-7 has been abused. It was never meant for the kind of situation Tiger found himself in.

Of course. But you are suggesting Woods should start some kind of moral crusade ... I'm simply saying nobody on the field would do that so why should Woods.

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Post by navyblueshorts Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:05 pm

Ergo, he signed his card to certify his score was what was written. This stinks worse than a rotting fish. The fact he hasn't voluntarily DQ'd himself says all you need to know about his 'new' personality.
Such a shame a ridiculously talented golfer is a w@nker and whom also gets preferential treatment.
What a load of utter balls. Any error I ever make now I'm going to say "Sorry Committee. I didn't realise I was breaking Rule X.y. Two shot penalty OK with you lot? Cheers!".
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Post by navyblueshorts Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:06 pm

Diggers wrote:
gaelgowfer wrote:Not one of your more intelligent questions Diggers.

What you should be questioning is why the augusta ctte didn't DQ Tiger Woods. In my opinion, Rule 33-7 has been abused. It was never meant for the kind of situation Tiger found himself in.

Of course. But you are suggesting Woods should start some kind of moral crusade ... I'm simply saying nobody on the field would do that so why should Woods.
I think you're wrong big time there Digs but we'll never know will we?
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Post by Diggers Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:06 pm

Diggers wrote:
gaelgowfer wrote:Not one of your more intelligent questions Diggers.

What you should be questioning is why the augusta ctte didn't DQ Tiger Woods. In my opinion, Rule 33-7 has been abused. It was never meant for the kind of situation Tiger found himself in.

Of course. But you are suggesting Woods should start some kind of moral crusade ... I'm simply saying nobody on the field would do that so why should Woods.

And I notice you didn't actually answer the question...

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:13 pm

all i know is that after all the questions and stuff i would probally dq myself., that or put up a 80 because i feel embarrased.,

But that is why I am here and Woods has 14 majors Whistle

All the same Faldo has 6 of them and i fully believe he would have withdrawn.. Oldschool dude..

Has golf been infected with the same cynism other sports have.. Hd telly has affected fore sure.. But in this case tv wasnt needed. HE ADMITTED Fault!!

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Post by Diggers Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:15 pm

Really, I don't think there is a cat in hells chance that Faldo would have withdrawn.

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Post by Shotrock Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:16 pm

Gael - Don't forget his storming off the Old Course mid round. And yet still the one to idolize?



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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:17 pm

Diggers wrote:Really, I don't think there is a cat in hells chance that Faldo would have withdrawn.

he knew the rules 100% and if he infringed he would call a penalty on himself. so in that way you may be right. In this case he has been the main media presence saying Tiger should withdraw. And with that i know 100% he would if he was in the same situation. But lets be honest Faldo isnt/wasnt ignorant and he isnt/wasnt a cheat

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:19 pm

Does anyone want woods to win?

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Post by gaelgowfer Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:24 pm

Diggers, since you're the one who's asking the question, where is your proof that
nobody on the field would do that?




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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:28 pm

Come on westy and lynn- pick each other up!!! make birdies..

by the way diggs- at the end off the day if you are allowed to play by the commitee that is clearly good enough reason to play..

i am not taken anything away from woods in this at all.. Its all todo with the TV and the organisers having no balls!!*well bar the fact that woods is stupider than i thought and all!!)

If tiger had just walked off that would have stiched them right up and i would have respected him.. He may have got his fan base back if truth be told!! might have been the best thing for him in the long run

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Post by JPX Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:31 pm

Anyway, moving on.....when is Couples all to predictable collapse going to start? on the 13th I reckon.

I don't get the fuss on Woods anyway, did he gain some massive advantage? No. Play on! (don't think he'll win anyway).

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Post by incontinentia Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:31 pm

Rule 33-7 is supposed to keep unnecessary disqualifications from coming around. Under the description of Rule 33-7/4.5 there's a "not reasonably have known" factor that applies.

"However, if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules, it would be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving the disqualification penalty prescribed by Rule 6-6d,"

Tiger should have known the rule governing his drop, therefore he should have been DQ'd, no doubt about it. Gael is correct that rule 33-7 has been abused to keep Tiger in the tournament, a sad day for golf.
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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:33 pm

JPX wrote:Anyway, moving on.....when is Couples all to predictable collapse going to start? on the 13th I reckon.

I don't get the fuss on Woods anyway, did he gain some massive advantage? No. Play on! (don't think he'll win anyway).

its kind of the bigger picture mate

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Post by mystiroakey Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:34 pm

JPX wrote:Anyway, moving on.....when is Couples all to predictable collapse going to start? on the 13th I reckon.

I don't get the fuss on Woods anyway, did he gain some massive advantage? No. Play on! (don't think he'll win anyway).

i think he will last till tommorow!!

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Post by JPX Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:34 pm

"a sad day for golf"

What on earth???? Don't be so pathetic.

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Post by sirbenson Sat 13 Apr 2013, 8:35 pm

Greens are scary quick at the moment, case in example Rose just on 7

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