Monte Carlo 1000 match thread

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

Thread for the week to discuss the matches outside the 606Tour and Pick threads.

Mixture of R1 and R2 (?) matches today...

[13] S. Wawrinka vs D. Istomin - 1st Round - Apr 16, 9:30 AM
F. Verdasco vs M. Matosevic - 1st Round - Apr 16, 9:30 AM
A. Ramos vs R. Stepanek - 1st Round - Apr 16, 9:30 AM
[6] Jo-Wilfried Tsonga vs Nikolay Davydenko - 2nd Round - Apr 16, 9:30 AM
[8] Janko Tipsarevic vs Grigor Dimitrov - 2nd Round - Apr 16, 9:30 AM
[7] Richard Gasquet vs Benoit Paire - 2nd Round - Apr 16, 11:00 AM
[WC] Benjamin Balleret vs Florian Mayer - 1st Round - Apr 16, 11:00 AM
[16] Philipp Kohlschreiber vs Pablo Andujar - 2nd Round - Apr 16, 11:00 AM
V. Hanescu vs M. Granollers - 1st Round - Apr 16, 11:30 AM
J. Huta Galung vs J. Melzer - 1st Round - Apr 16, 1:30 PM
K. Anderson vs J. Janowicz - 1st Round - Apr 16, 1:30 PM
[WC] G. Monfils vs A. Montanes - 1st Round - Apr 16, 1:30 PM
[10] N. Almagro vs D. Goffin - 1st Round - Apr 16, 2:00 PM
J. Isner vs E. Gulbis - 1st Round - Apr 16, 2:00 PM
[14] J. Monaco vs M. Klizan - 1st Round - Apr 16, 3:30 PM
[5] Juan Martin Del Potro vs Alexandr Dolgopolov - 2nd Round - Apr 16, 3:30 PM



http://www.atpworldtour.com/scores/schedule.aspx?year=2013&eventid=410

[Jahu]

Poor day for most top seeds.

[banbrotam]

Murray's serve was up and down, Stan was good/solid, just a "nothing" performance from Murray though. That kind of performance you would never expect to see from Federer or Nadal, and Djokovic more these days.

Agreed. Quite honestly, arguably worse that that Kohlschreiber massacre of a couple of years ago

Murray plays with Head racquets too. Agree something goes awry when he steps onto dirt...his movement just isn't good enough, he looks clumsy a lot of the time on it, he's just not a silken mover like the other top 3. Which is surprising considering he moved to Barcelona at 14.

He just has no confidence against anyone decent and worse had more confidence a couple of years ago. In fairness that was the year he also got wiped by Kohlschreiber and came back to play well against Nadal at the Frech and Novak. Maybe Monte Carlo, which is arguably the slowest of the clay courts he plays on and with it being first - just leaves him with no confidence against decent clay court players

I dunno why he just doesn't give it up or go and play at some 'easier' events to build his confidence

[HM Murdock]

Is anyone watching Djovovic v Monaco? Is Novak playing as poorly as the unfolding scoreline suggests?

[laverfan]

LF, I think you're forgetting Djokovic is still in the draw and I don't see Dimitrov being easy either.

Djokovic has had knee/ankle issues, IIRC.

[banbrotam]

LF, I think you're forgetting Djokovic is still in the draw and I don't see Dimitrov being easy either.

Djokovic has had knee/ankle issues, IIRC.

Murray's "issues" are quite easy...........he can't play on the dirt

[lydian]

Looks like it might be a Djoko-Delpo QF...both have got back into their matches now. Djoko not far from the win...another 2 hour match for him - there's not much wrong with that ankle!

Yeah banbrotam, MC is the ultimate clay test as its really slow...the slower the clay the more it tests footwork because its got more top dressing (to slow it down). Not sure what the answer is...he's just not as adept on clay as HC/grass, the numbers don't lie - 35 ATP finals...0 on clay - has there ever been a top player stat like that?

[laverfan]

@Lydian... Djokovic having problems closing the match. Do you think he will provide a good match to Nadal?

[laverfan]

Murray's "issues" are quite easy...........he can't play on the dirt

Quite agree, BanBro. I had him picked for the 660v2 Picking Game.

[lydian]

Hey LF? He's 5-2 up in the 2nd set...I wouldn't call it a problem unless Monaco comes back to 5-5. Yes he'll raise his game like all good players do.

Just looked at Boris Becker, another top player who didn't like clay. Even he got to 2 clay finals by the time he had got to 35 ATP finals.

[lydian]

Monaco suddenly realised he was the 2nd coming of Vince Spadea and fell on his sword after realising he'd won the first set. Abject resistance to the guy with the broken ankle in plaster of Paris.

Delpo will creak that plaster a little more - provided he beats the in-form Jarko.

[HM Murdock]

Is anyone watching Djovovic v Monaco? Is Novak playing as poorly as the unfolding scoreline suggests?

From the point I asked that question, Novak won 9 of the next 11 games! I should do that more often.

As long as that ankle is holding up, these long matches will do Novak good in the long run.

He still seems a way from offering much of a challenge to Rafa at this point though.

[Calder106]

For Murray the strange thing is that the one year in the last 5 that he hasn't had a specialist clay courter in his coaching team (Corretja or Lendl) was 2011 which has been his best clay court season so far. No finals but close semis at MC and Rome with Nadal and Djokovic respectively. Obviously this can change over the next couple of months but not on todays evidence.

Also what has happened to his first serve in percentages. Going back to Miami his last three matches have been 54%, 54%, and 57%. He got away with it in Miami against Ferrer who was also serving badly but needs to get that percentage well up if he is going to compete against the top players.

[banbrotam]

The serve will help - but not if he repeats a set worth of errors, must of which could be avoided by you and I

I'm OK with him going out in an error strewn manner against Ferrer at lasty years French or with the same error ridden glamour that Fed does - but not like this

He looked even more lost than when Gonzo spanked his backside at F-2009'

[lydian]

DP not far from going out here...Djokovic is the winner though...this is a grueller and they'll have to come back tomorrow to do the same again. If its 31 year old Nieminen then he's going to be knackered!

[lydian]

Jarko has MP...

[lydian]

Saves it and into the 3rd set TB they go...

[lydian]

4-4...going to the wire

[JuliusHMarx]

Monaco is out of Monte Carlo, but Monte Carlo is still in Monaco.

(That's the last of the Monaco jokes 'til next year)

[lydian]

Jarko has 2 more MPs...surely this time

[Cogen]

Bugger. Bugger, bugger, bugger.

Of all the upsets today, Del Potro losing was the only one I could not afford. Tournament ruined. Now I need Niemenen to beat Djokovic to minimise damage.

[lydian]

Yep...DP dumped out...to complete a day of surprises....Berdy, Murray, Djoko 1st set.

[banbrotam]

I'm begining to admire Roger more and more for giving this event a miss. He must realise that the slow conditions are a great leveller, given that it's the first of the 'main' clay court events

[lydian]

Not sure about it being a leveller, it just weeds out those with poor footwork and court-craft - of which DP isn't the best at either. Federer used to enter Hamburg which was cold and turgidly slow - much slower than MC - and he fared ok there...

[Danny_1982]

I've only just seen the Murray score. Good grief that's awful.

Murray has reached 40 finals in his career, and beaten some of the greatest players of all time... But not one of those finals or victories have been on clay and I see nothing that is going to change those stats.

Maybe 2011 is as good as its ever going to get on this surface for him. He just isn't the same player on clay, and I don't think he ever will be.

Makes the stretch enjoyable in a way. There are very few easy matches for him. Anyone in the top 20 has a good shot against Andy on clay. I'm just going to enjoy the unpredictability until the relative sanctuary of the green green grass of home.

[Cogen]

Anyone in the top 20 has a good shot against Andy on clay.

Top 50*

[lydian]

He's only defending 520 more pts on clay anyway until end of RG.
Got to QF of Barcelona last year, 90 pts, but no plans to play there again so far. I don't think he'll be losing too much sleep...at least he cant be burnt out by Wimbledon.

[banbrotam]

I've only just seen the Murray score. Good grief that's awful.

Murray has reached 40 finals in his career, and beaten some of the greatest players of all time... But not one of those finals or victories have been on clay and I see nothing that is going to change those stats.

Maybe 2011 is as good as its ever going to get on this surface for him. He just isn't the same player on clay, and I don't think he ever will be.

Makes the stretch enjoyable in a way. There are very few easy matches for him. Anyone in the top 20 has a good shot against Andy on clay. I'm just going to enjoy the unpredictability until the relative sanctuary of the green green grass of home.

Andy's problem is that he's never got any confidence from having some 'easy' wins, i.e. the numerous '250' clay court events around the world. In some ways I admire him for insisting on mixing with the very best - but I mentioned a while ago, I don't see the point.

He's a small chance of winning an event with the best of those from 5 to 20 entering - he's no chance with the big 3 there. Why bother? He'd be best finding 4 hard court events and getting a minimimum of 1000 points

I of course realise that it might not be that simple as he got penalty points galore for not entering the Masters!!

[lydian]

He should be entering clay events like Stan does before MC to gain a better footing. Its only his high seeding from HC events that probably ensures he doesn't go out even earlier in these events. People point to his SF run at RG but that was a cakewalk draw that year...he's just not adept on this surface at all, and its utterly bizarre given his ability elsewhere. Its not like he's a fast court player ala Sampras and Becker, he likes grinding away from the back, just not on clay.

Now Stan - what a massive underachiever for all his talent.

[JuliusHMarx]

Murray prefers natural surfaces, not stuff you have to dig out from a quarry, crush up, shape into bricks, bake in a kiln, then grind into powder

[lydian]

Lol...remind me of how they make natural surface cement again?

[JuliusHMarx]

Lol...remind me of how they make natural surface cement again?

I grow cement in my allotment.
I also heard that Murray likes wood

[invisiblecoolers]

Did anybody see Del Po match? did he play crap or Niem played good or a combo of both?

[Jahu]

How come clay is a problem with Murray, when he spent quite some time playing in Spanish tennis academy on clay?

[banbrotam]

Murray prefers natural surfaces, not stuff you have to dig out from a quarry, crush up, shape into bricks, bake in a kiln, then grind into powder

He didn't look very "natural" today

[banbrotam]

Did anybody see Del Po match? did he play crap or Niem played good or a combo of both?

Bit of both. Arguably, DP was more of a disappointment than Murray. At least Wawrinka is arguably one of the best players to win five events or less.

Niemo was good though and well done to him

[banbrotam]

He should be entering clay events like Stan does before MC to gain a better footing. Its only his high seeding from HC events that probably ensures he doesn't go out even earlier in these events. People point to his SF run at RG but that was a cakewalk draw that year...he's just not adept on this surface at all, and its utterly bizarre given his ability elsewhere. Its not like he's a fast court player ala Sampras and Becker, he likes grinding away from the back, just not on clay.

Now Stan - what a massive underachiever for all his talent.

Agree with the Stan comment, but Andy has far more to his game than grinding. He likes faster surfaces because the more instinctive play needed suits his 'touch' game

[JuliusHMarx]

Pop quiz - which current tennis player's father once beat Jimmy Connors at the French Open?

[laverfan]

Christopher Roger-Vasellin perhaps JHM. ;-)

[Danny_1982]

It is a bizarre one jahu. You'd imagine that he'd be fairly comfortable on the surface having grown up on it.

But despite being a fantastic athlete and a great mover, he's not as light on his feet as the other top guys. Therefore he seems to scurry a lot and seems off balance most of the time. Movement is such a huge part of his game and its 20% worse on clay.

If he was a comfortable mover on the surface then the rest of his game is quite suited to it. But I don't think he'll ever match his 2011, during which he was helped out by a few good draws.

[JuliusHMarx]

Christopher Roger-Vasellin perhaps JHM. ;-)

Yes - did you read that recently, or know it anyway?

[lydian]

Murray is a powerfully explosive mover but he's not a gifted mover like Djokovic, Nadal or Federer in my opinion. Clay exposes his lack of 'lightness' and because he's like a relative oil tanker on clay it's much easier to wrong foot him as he can't change directly quickly. On hard or grass court he can change direction quickly from sheer power with grip but his weight/momentum causes him to often overbalance on wide shots so on clay he finds it hard to go back in the other direction.

The other issues are his 2nd serve - no bite at all, he doesn't hit his FH or BH with particularly high pace AND spin which is needed for clay, and finally he has trouble with high spin to his DHBH making the shot go above his comfort zone. Note he often has problems with SHBHers who can spin more than DHBHers...Gasquet, Wawrinka and Kohli can all whip the ball up above his BH wheelhouse. Nadal's FH does exactly the same thing...and then some. I'm surprised more players haven't cottoned onto this...perhaps they will after today. Clay exposes all the relative weaknesses in his game vs the big top 3.

Finally, I doubt he'll get a draw like RG11 again...Prodon (qualifier), Bolelli, Berrer, Troicki (who choked away a 2 set lead), then Chela in QF before running into Nadal.

[laverfan]

Christopher Roger-Vasellin perhaps JHM. ;-)

Yes - did you read that recently, or know it anyway?

i knew it because of Edouard R-V - Murray match.

[JuliusHMarx]

Christopher Roger-Vasellin perhaps JHM. ;-)

Yes - did you read that recently, or know it anyway?

i knew it because of Edouard R-V - Murray match.

You're a (Thierry) champion!

[laverfan]

You're a (Thierry) champion!

[Danny_1982]

Watching the Murray match now and his movement actually isn't that bad. But goodness me the errors he is coughing up and the amount of short balls is horrendous.

He's in a right strop with himself already, and I'm only 5 games in...

[invisiblecoolers]

Did anybody see Del Po match? did he play crap or Niem played good or a combo of both?

Bit of both. Arguably, DP was more of a disappointment than Murray. At least Wawrinka is arguably one of the best players to win five events or less.

Niemo was good though and well done to him

Did Murray lose as well?

[Danny_1982]

Did anybody see Del Po match? did he play crap or Niem played good or a combo of both?

Bit of both. Arguably, DP was more of a disappointment than Murray. At least Wawrinka is arguably one of the best players to win five events or less.

Niemo was good though and well done to him

Did Murray lose as well?

Yup. 6/1, 6/2 to Wawrinka.

[summerblues]

Ouch. That was rough for Andy. Quite bizarre. It is not like he cannot put together a good performance on clay - he came pretty close to upsetting Nole in 2011 during Nole's streak and he had a close one against Rafa too before. But he is just not good enough consistently enough.

On one hand we have a convergence of surfaces like never before, and on the other hand the gulf between Andy's clay and off-clay results is as big as can be.

Too bad I cannot watch Grisha play Rafa tomorrow. I think he will do well to keep it to a close straight set loss, but it will still be interesting to see how he handles himself.

[The Special Juan]

I hear Novak is doing his utmost to carry on playing. Good guy

Come on Stanford!!

[Silver]

Intriguing match, this. JWT and Stan have only played three times before, and their two clay matches were five set thrillers at RG in 2011/12. Would've thought they'd have played each other more frequently, as staple top-20 players.

On serve in the third...

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