Enjoyable day of upsets Berdy, Murray, and Del Po are all gone

Had to say I quite enjoyed the matches although Djokovic doesn't look nearly all there with his movement he survives the early round upsets. Many had Del Po touted for a deep run but Del Po loses to veteran underdog Niemennen in what was a crazy match going to the wire in a third set tiebreaker. I had a feeling foggy would upset Berdy, before the tournament started I had him penciled in as a quarter finalist, Berdych's favorite surface being an indoor hardcourt was always going to have problems with the skillful Italian playing on his favorite surface where he defeated Djokovic and end his consecutive win streak at Roland Garros in 2011.

Gasquet continues to impress disposing of Cilic, I am starting to think that the second spring in his career that I have been hoping for starts to come around. His variety and magical one handed backhand is wonderful to behold and he is starting to really become a more experienced match player. Berdych continues to disappoint though although foggy was a tough matchup on clay he has to fulfill that promise of everyone looking at him as the player with the most ability to have not won a slam.

I still can't see how Djokovic keeps winning he is practically a shell of himself dropping a set to Monaco of all people. This tournament looks like a poor choice as he is laboring and struggling to push off on the slippery clay off of his right side. His movement to the forehand is poor also he can't change direction back into his backhand corner, basically any pivoting off the right side is way off.

I have to admit I'm confused about Djokovic's behavior. I was aware that he was in a tricky position regarding making a decision to play but am not keen on all the dramatics now that he is. Apparently two Dr's and a physio at an MTO but no treatment. Just a pep talk. Ice towels. Looking like he's half dead. Getting his team to talk to the media about how they advised him not to play. Peter Flemming scoffed a bit at this and I have to say I agree. It's like a ploy to makes him out as a hero for playing but give him a built in excuse if he loses.

Maybe Djokovic just can't help himself? He just loves attention and wants to bathe in sympathy? Maybe it's his way of trying to steal a bit of the spotlight from Nadal who from what I've seen is being treated like a popstar (How Djokovic would love that) I'm not sure what Roddick would would say if he was watching. In some ways it's a shame for Djokovic that he isn't. Roddick has a way with words that might make him snap out of the dramatics.

On the upsets I'm not sure they were totally unexpected and I'm also pleased about Gasquet.

Drama queen

I wish people would like Djokovic. Maybe then he'd stop all this attention seeking nonsense.

hawkeye wrote:I'm not sure what Roddick would would say if he was watching. In some ways it's a shame for Djokovic that he isn't. Roddick has a way with words that might make him snap out of the dramatics.

Sadly, Roddick is currently in Syria talking to Assad on behalf of the UN and is then flying out to North Korea.

He has a way with words, you see.

When Djoko has more slams than Nadal maybe he will...

Well people are stupid as he's easily the most likeable slam winner in the last 7 or 8 years in terms of personality but I guess it just goes to show that people will buy anything they are sold.

Haha, oh the dripping sarcasm in BBs post.

I tend to agree in that it almost feels he likes to play the battling victim in between points by hobbling around only to then race around all over the place when the ball is in play. He was calling the trainer out for a chat yesterday. He's now played well over 4 hours in 2 matches - and won, with pics of him sliding in the usual contortional splits position with his ankles turned at 90 degrees - and we're supposed to believe he's hobbling around in pain and a half step slow? Geez, and the grief Nadal used to get about the alleged non-injury of his knees because he wasn't hobbling around.

Fear not, BITF, Novak's doing just fine.

Although maybe if he spoke about injury less he'd be treated like a popstar.

You never, for instance, hear Rafa going on about injuries. You never hear Uncle Toni giving contradictory stories about injuries to the media. You never see Rafa taking medical time outs.

Actually, in fairness, I thought we saw exactly that.

But there are people on this forum who follow Rafa a lot more closely than I do and they've never noticed this. So who am I to argue?

I disagree, I think Djokovic is very popular. Pretty much every match he plays in, the stadium is full, that suggests to me the crowds want to watch him. He seems to get as much media coverage nowadays as Federer and Nadal, certainly from what I have seen. Anybody I talk to, even friends who dont care much for tennis all seem to talk about him in a similar way to Federer and Nadal. He has 3 million fans on Facebook so not too shabby on that front either. You have to remember he is not around nearly as long as Fed and Nadal, who had everything their own way and had a rivalry going for years even if one sided.

Novak has been the only player to regularly beat Nadal and Federer in slams, as much as i like those two players i am glad a worthy challenger arrived on the scene to at least bring some unpredictabilty. It took Murray until this year to finally get his first win over Fed in a slam. Novak has 5 slam wins over Federer and 3 against Nadal, amazing feat in itself not to mention his 6 slam wins.

Whether you like him or not, Novak is great for the game. He contends on all surfaces and at least has a bit of fun on and off the court. Also one of the few that congratulates a good shot from an opponent and is arguably better at handling defeat than any other top player. see how he embraced Nadal in US Open 2010 and Murray in US open 2012. He is a huge draw for any tournament and its sponsors. How people come to the conclusion he is unpopular is beyond me. I dont think this forum necessarily reflects the entire global tennis audience.

slashermcguirk wrote: How people come to the conclusion he is unpopular is beyond me.

I think some believe that by declaring Novak unpopular, it in some way elevates Nadal and Federer further.

These people used to use slam victories to do this.

Now that Fedal slams have become harder to come by, the popularity card is an easier one to play.

Oh I like him a lot and I think his etiquette is much superior to his rivals (apart from the limping around and acting tired).

He's not unpopular, he's just not quite the iconic figure of the others. Federer is the ultimate artist and winner, Nadal the ultimate competitor, Nole the ultimate...... contortionist? endurance athlete? It just doesn't have as much to hang it all on I think.


EDIT: I think some posters are getting this out of proportion, we're searching for reasons that he behaves like a drama queen sometimes.

He might be liked, but never loved, he can get 50 GS but will never be looked same as other Legends, as he has no single weapon of beauty except for returning balls and staying in his feet for 6 hours.

He's popular with many, definitely and I posted an article recently showing the increase in his popularity in the US. I dont mind watching him play although not as much as Federer or Nadal.

However, popularity is not the topic of discussion here although that said popularity is a fickle thing. The public wont warm to him if they perceive he's milking the injuries.

After the match yesterday he was going on about how he's half a step slow - which is a little disservice to your opponent you've just beaten BTW. However, he's alluding to the sore ankle causing that. I posted the pic above for a reason - it shows a 3 foot slide into a wide FH with his sore right ankle taking the brunt of all that weight and force into the shot. How sore can that ankle be to be doing those kind of movements for hour after hour? How can he do all that but then be seen gingerly hobbling/limping around between points? It doesn't add up. It just comes across as attention-seeking to many people...as BB says, the question is why act up like this during a match?

No single weapon Jahu ??? is that a joke? only one of the greatest if not the greatest return in the history of the game, if you play the game you will know how hard a skill that actually is particularly when returning balls at about 130MPH. What about his backhand down the line that is superior to most if not all of his rivals.

Do we need to mention the incredible angles he is capable of hitting on both forehand and backhand side. To say this guy has no weopans is insulting to say the least. One last one, the ability to save match points on the biggest stage under incredible pressure, have never seen one guy fend off so many match points on the big stage most of which were saved with screaming winners on both the forehand and backhand sign. If you need just three examples of Djokovic's weopons, watch the two match points saved against Fed in US open 2010 and the 1st match point saved against Fed in US open 2011 !!

dont forget djokovics match point against federer in ATP World tour finals last year. That backhand down the line sure proved no weopan at the critical moment. Fed thought he hit a winner and within a second the match was over

Greatest returner ever = Jimmy Connors.

I always leap to Jimbos defence; the guy handled mega serves using just one step above a frying pan. No fancy strings or huge headed weapon there!

Sorry, back to the matter in hand........

break_in_the_fifth wrote:When Djoko has more slams than Nadal maybe he will...

Well people are stupid as he's easily the most likeable slam winner in the last 7 or 8 years in terms of personality but I guess it just goes to show that people will buy anything they are sold.

Djokovic is number 1 and has done more than enough in terms of wins to prove his worth. He is a media dream with his personality... And he craves attention. But he still can't crack the popularity contest. To be honest I'm virtually certain he never will. Of course by this I mean he'll never be as popular on the whole as Nadal and Federer but he has earned his own level of popularity. Of course in Serbia things will be very different so he has that.

Maybe he's like you in that he thinks he's done what's required and people should dam well like him better. That's not how things work though. In IW's Nadal and Federer hogged the prime courts and he (the number 1 how dare they he must have thought) was put on late in front of a sparse crowd. He let his frustration out by cursing the crowd (in Serbian). But you can't shout at people to make them like you it won't work. At least he doesn't get booed like Murray. Murray is a case in point that people don't always buy what they are sold. But unlike Djokovic Murray doesn't appear to care.

Blimey HE...you don't pull your punches do you! lol

lydian wrote:Blimey HE...you don't pull your punches do you! lol

Gosh! Was it that bad... I didn't mean it to be. I actually like Djokovic and feel a bit bad for him. But not too much as he's doing fine. Seriously what's he really got to worry about?

Everybody has their own preferences, I think Federer and Nadal deserve their popularity. All i am saying is Djokovic is very popular but I agree that it will always be difficult to match the other two because they were around for so long and had their legendary rivalry. I just think people saying Novak is unpopular is so far from the truth. Also, it cant be a coincidence that a large proportion of the greatest matches of recent years have involved him. That cannot be denied. Even his match against wawrinka at oz open was out of this world

I even booed Murray yesterday. I got my dogs to do the same too

surprised to hear tsonga has just beaten wawrinka in deciding set. I would have thought stan would win that match fairly handy. Looking at the stats, Tsonga won 2/3 break points, Wawrinka won 2/12 !! that tells the story i guess.

result aside, been very impressed with Wawrinka this year. Hopefully teaming up with new coach Magnus Norman will bring his game on further. The guy has so much talent and I could watch his backhand all day long. I think he turned a corner this year in Oz, depsite losing to Novak he kept fighting right until the very end and produced some incredible tennis throughout. Would love to see him win more titles, the guy has been so unlucky to be so overshadowed by his countryman Federer.

bogbrush wrote:He's not unpopular, he's just not quite the iconic figure of the others. Federer is the ultimate artist and winner, Nadal the ultimate competitor, Nole the ultimate...... contortionist? endurance athlete? It just doesn't have as much to hang it all on I think.

Federer, yes, can't argue.

I find the whole Nadal as "the ultimate competitor" a bit vague though. What does it really mean? That he tries hard? All the top guys do. That he fights every point? All the top players do. That he brings his best in the face of adversity? He's not alone in that either.

He's a staggeringly good player with an idiosyncratic style that make him unique or, at least, distinctive.

But I'm not really keen on labels beyond "best" or "most successful".

Anyway, back to the matter hand - why is Novak a drama queen? Well, why is Nadal so obsessive? Why is Andy so moody? He just is. I'd rather he wasn't but if that is the only downside to to a general demeanour that is friendly, funny and sporting, I'll take it.

Yes, it should not obscure other things. Most notably I think he is genuinely a very good sport, it doesn't come across as affected at all.

Federer & Nadal do not generally (if ever) applaud good shots or give up contentious points.

Good win for Tsonga over Wawrinka - he's having a decent season on the clay - he played well in Argentina in Davis Cup on the red stuff and, provided he avoids injury, I can see him going on a decent run at Roland Garros.

HM Murdoch wrote:Fear not, BITF, Novak's doing just fine.

Although maybe if he spoke about injury less he'd be treated like a popstar.

You never, for instance, hear Rafa going on about injuries. You never hear Uncle Toni giving contradictory stories about injuries to the media. You never see Rafa taking medical time outs.

Actually, in fairness, I thought we saw exactly that.

But there are people on this forum who follow Rafa a lot more closely than I do and they've never noticed this. So who am I to argue?

Exactly, Murdoch, it seems that Novak is the only player to talk about his injuries in the history of tennis. All we have heard here for some time is about Nadal and his injuries and how Nadal feels pain all the time when he plays etc. Nobody cares if the BBs or Jahu's of the world like Djokovic or not he is doing pretty well without the hardcore of critics. Anyone who has watched Djokovic can tell that he is having problems pushing off the right leg and probably regrets entering the tournament at this stage. He moves well still to the left but moving to the forehand corner is way off and when he plants on the shot it also troubles him. But then again a lot of the astute observers on this tennis site leave a lot to be desired of their awareness of the actual match. The same people who said poor nadal would be fractured for months after his return from injury after his first match are now saying that Djokovic isn't hurt and he is just hamming it up for the cameras. If you watched the man play and can't tell his movement especially to the forehand corner is hampered well then that basically sums up your ability to discern facts from a tennis match.

bogbrush wrote:I wish people would like Djokovic. Maybe then he'd stop all this attention seeking nonsense.

I would say vice-versa too, once Djoko stop all his attention seeking nonsense people will start to slowly like him, anyways Tennis needs some villan or heel character at top, we have too many faces in Fed/Nadal and Murray to add to it.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I wish people would like Djokovic. Maybe then he'd stop all this attention seeking nonsense.

I would say vice-versa too, once Djoko stop all his attention seeking nonsense people will start to slowly like him, anyways Tennis needs some villan or heel character at top, we have too many faces in Fed/Nadal and Murray to add to it.

I would be more worried by why a one-legged Djokovic can advance further than Del Potro at this tournament instead of who attracts the most fanboys and fangirls, frankly I never lose that much sleep over it.

Nole seems much more needful of approval. Probably worth having a word with him.

slashermcguirk wrote:No single weapon Jahu ??? is that a joke? only one of the greatest if not the greatest return in the history of the game, if you play the game you will know how hard a skill that actually is particularly when returning balls at about 130MPH. What about his backhand down the line that is superior to most if not all of his rivals.

Do we need to mention the incredible angles he is capable of hitting on both forehand and backhand side. To say this guy has no weopans is insulting to say the least. One last one, the ability to save match points on the biggest stage under incredible pressure, have never seen one guy fend off so many match points on the big stage most of which were saved with screaming winners on both the forehand and backhand sign. If you need just three examples of Djokovic's weopons, watch the two match points saved against Fed in US open 2010 and the 1st match point saved against Fed in US open 2011 !!

Jahu, holds Novak responsible for Serbian ethnic cleansing in the 90s eventhough he wasn't even 10 years old, he has very little understanding of tennis or anything else. Same nonsense of Djokovic not having a weapon, Federer and Nadal would both trade their backhands for his in a millisecond. And his forehand is also among the best and clearly one of the best returners in the history of the game. I laugh when fans of Federer and Nadal claim that Novak should be quiet about his injuries and pretend he isn't hurt so as not take credit away from his opponents. That is pretty funny to anyone who remembers 2008 a year where every body else's trophies and victories were chalked up to mono with this crowd. How dare Novak become the first player in history to talk about his injuries Roger would never do that, Rafa the warrior would never do that; blah, blah, blah same garbage dressed up in a vinagerette and sold to us as a Waldorf Salad.

Socal, did you see today's match? I heard it was a little better than the first two?

I'm concerned that he has lost his opening service game twice (and in the other match he lost his second!), failed to serve out a set twice and has second serve conversion of under 50%!

I have it on my DVR box Murdoch have to work unfortunately, I was enthused by the scoreline and also by the fact that after the match he says that the ankle feels better and feels better in each match as he goes along. The left ankle would affect his serve more but the right ankle is the foot you plant on as a righty once you have finished your motion. I don't think he is 100 percent or will be for some time unless he takes a break. I actually think he will lose before the final and if not for upsets and a favorable draw he should have been out earlier in the tourney. If anything Djokovic winning three matches a step slow on his first clay court tournament is a good sign as long as the ankle gets better before Rafa runs away with the whole clay court season again. Will definetly give you my thoughts once I see the match. But his movement wide to the forehand leaves a lot to be desired of and is causing him to miss a lot of forehands. To me Novak's forehand determines how easily he holds as much as his service delivery if he can't get around the cross court forehand properly or get the proper lift off and push off the right ankle it will certainly show up in his serving numbers. So that isn't surprising.

Socal, interesting.

I thought the tone of his post-match comments were much more optimistic and there was apparently some very good play too (albeit interspersed with some wobbly moments!).

The remarkable thing is that, despite really being off his game, he is now just one win away from defending all his points! The draw has been kind though.

Murdoch, I ain't gettin' on no plane fool!

JuliusHMarx wrote:Murdoch, I ain't gettin' on no plane fool!

Was it ever explained how B.A. managed a career in the special forces with a phobia of flying? How did he even get to Vietnam? By boat?

Yes, Murdoch the good thing is that he does look better than the first match against Youzhny because he looked plain terrible in that match, if the ankle is getting looser with each match that is a positive sign but I feel like he needed to be fit going into this clay court season and in away he has seeded the early clay momentum to Nadal by hurting himself in DAvis cup, this confidence could prove a huge deal as it was a determining factor in their matchups in 2011 and 2012.

Yes, since all green berets have to generally go through Airborne Ranger training it is rather surprising that BA made it as far as he did in the military being scared of flying. Flying is one thing riding in low and slow into a hot landing zone is a bit more stressful than a mere plane ride.

HM Murdoch wrote:Fear not, BITF, Novak's doing just fine.

Although maybe if he spoke about injury less he'd be treated like a popstar.

You never, for instance, hear Rafa going on about injuries. You never hear Uncle Toni giving contradictory stories about injuries to the media. You never see Rafa taking medical time outs.

Actually, in fairness, I thought we saw exactly that.

But there are people on this forum who follow Rafa a lot more closely than I do and they've never noticed this. So who am I to argue?

Agree with this sentiment.

Also, I tend to be quite sceptical of players' injury claims. In many cases they have interest in either exaggerating small (or even non-existent) ailments, or hiding the bigger ones. I do not even hold it against them - it is all part of the battle. If you know that the battalions on your eastern front are ill-equipped and malnurished, you would be silly to advertise it, and similarly you may have interest in making the opponent underestimate you in other places.

Interesting ideas of double reverse strategy on the part of Djokovic summerblues but the injury was very real and while not severe or long term it seemed to being really affecting him for a few matches. I will say this that after watching the niemenin match Djokovic was moving a great deal better thanI have seen since his injury he made some great gets and indicated that the ankle felt better and better.

I am not necessarily imagining any deep strategy by Djokovic and obviously players do get injured and he did turn his ankle, so who knows; maybe it indeed bothers him still.

I am just saying I do not really trust various signals that players send in these types of situations - neither their comments nor their body language.

So maybe it really bothers him and his game will be hindered this weekend. But, likewise, I would not be surprised to find him running, turning, scampering and sliding like there is no tomorrow for four hours on Sunday.