606v2's British ATG P4P top 10 *RESULTS*

Here is the results their was a total of 29 boxers rated by posters.

Anyone who didn't post their list and would like to just add it to the thread and I will add it to the list.

Thanks for voting

1. Jimmy Wilde 112
2. Lennox Lewis 105
3. Ted Lewis 103
4. Bob Fitzsimmons 70
T5. Joe Calzaghe 65
T5. Ken Buchanan 65
7. Freddie Welsh 58
8. Jack Berg 52
9. Jim Driscoll 41
10. Naseem Hamed 30

11. Benny Lynch 27
T12.John Conteh 16
T12.Nigel Benn 16
T14.Chris Eubank 12
T14.Carl Froch 12
16. Owen Moran 11
T17.Ricky Hatton 9
T17.Randy Turpin 9
19. Lloyd Honeyghan 7
T20.Barry McGuigan 6
T20.David Haye 6
22. Jackie Brown 5
23. Peter Kane 3
T24.Clinton Woods 2
T24.Amir Khan 2
T24.Percy Jones 2
T27. Nathan Cleverly 1
T27. Jock McAvoy 1
T27. Robin Reid 1

Don't know much about British heritage.....However...

Fitz would be no 1.............

Ted Kid Lewis would also be in there with Buchanan, Lynch, Calzaghe, Wilde and Hamed and Hatton...........

Obviously I've missd a few out but I don't know much about the Howard Winstones so i'll bow to a higher source of BB knowledge..

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Freddie Welsh
5. Jack "Kid" Berg
6. Benny Lynch
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Joe Calzaghe
10.Lennox Lewis

My 1 and 2 spots might vary depending on what the criteria is.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't know much about British heritage.....However...

Fitz would be no 1.............

Ted Kid Lewis would also be in there with Buchanan, Lynch, Calzaghe, Wilde and Hamed and Hatton...........

Obviously I've missd a few out but I don't know much about the Howard Winstones so i'll bow to a higher source of BB knowledge..

Truss you've named 9 some on here don't know much about the old fighters so their list will be more modern.

Colonial Lion wrote:1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Freddie Welsh
5. Jack "Kid" Berg
6. Benny Lynch
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Joe Calzaghe
10.Lennox Lewis

My 1 and 2 spots might very depending on what the criteria is.

Use whatever criteria you like it's your list. Although I am intesrested to know why?

Haven't got the encyclopaedic knowledge of some on this board, although I do hope to acquire a tad more over time.

Anyway, here goes...

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Jim Driscoll
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Barry McGuigan
8. John Conteh
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Ricky Hatton

prettyboykev wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Freddie Welsh
5. Jack "Kid" Berg
6. Benny Lynch
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Joe Calzaghe
10.Lennox Lewis

My 1 and 2 spots might very depending on what the criteria is.

Use whatever criteria you like it's your list. Although I am intesrested to know why?

Firstly, I presume Fitzsimmons is counted as British for the purposes of the list as his nationality and citizenship are often much disputed.

The margins get fine for me because I have Wilde as the clear greatest ever flyweight but due to circumstances the division was not universally recognised at the time and I think this often harms his legacy unfortunately. He was seldom the bigger man in his fights and even when he weighed in fully clothed he was often lighter than his opponent. In pure pound for terms Wilde almost epitomises the essence of it. Even more so than Fitzsimmons I feel who is also a pound for pound great. Both real freaks of power and ability in that regard. In the rawest sense I might plump for Wilde over Fitzsimmons.

However Fitzsimmons remarkeable acheivements happened on a geater stage than Wildes and he mixed it with the more marquee names so I think when you consider all aspects of their careers its close but Fitzsimmons ranks above in an all time sense.

I often have a tough time seperating the two though.

1. lewis
2. calzaghe
3. hamed
4. eubank
5 benn
6. froch
7.hatton
8. haye
9. khan
10. cleverly

Great list lion.

Personally -
1=Fitz
1=Wilde
3 T. Lewis
4. Welsh
5. Berg
6. Driscoll
7. Lynch
8. Buchanan
9. Percy Jones
10. Calzaghe

Huge copout at the top - I love Fitz - a true p4p legend - but Wilde is one of my heroes. A great man in and out of the ring - and robbed of his title (fighting the huge Herman; when he was already old) - also with massive punching power. I also took his work in the boxing booths into account, stories of which were drummed into me since I was a boy - of him fighting bigger men and cutting them to pieces whilst receiving no punishment himself. 1 tale I remember well involved a local heavyweight-weighing fellow. The man was boxing Wilde - but couldn't touch him and the young Jimmy was laughing whilst coming into range, landing some hard clean shots and then moving away again. In a rage, the bigger man grabbed Wilde, tackled him to the floor and sat on him - then preceded to try to connect with some hard punches. This being the boxing booths with notoriously irregular rules - no-one moved to stop things initially. In spite of sitting on Wilde's waist and throwing punches downwards - he still couldn't connect - and Wilde was still hitting his face. The chastened bleeding larger man was hauled off, his money lost and Wilde victorious. An absolute legend.

Calzaghe sneaks in ahead of L. Lewis because although Lennox fought better opposition - he is still guilty as Calzaghe of fighting defining fights against men too old and he was careless twice - and I'm (perhaps) a little harsh on people taking fights lightly. Percy Jones - world flyweight champ gets in there - partly because he had a good record against the greats of the day - and partly because his career was tragically cut short and I'd like him to get more recognition.

Other than that - no real surprises there.

Nice article prettyboy.

Ox cheers for putting Lynch above Buchanan common train of thought is Buchanan is Scotlands greatest, I would have Lynch above him as well not much in it though tbf.

Was Fitz actually British?

For the purposes of the list yes. Although their is some debate over it.

NO DISRESPECT TO PAST FIGHTERS, IE 60'S ETC, I DIDNT SEE THEM FIGHT ON TAPE, ETC, FIGHTER'S IVE SEEN FIGHT!
1. LEWIS
2. CONTEH
3. CALZAGHE
4. HONEYGHAN
5. BUCHANAN
6. EUBANK
7. BENN
8. HATTON
9. MCGUIGAN
10. HAMED

Hamed > than McGuigan by some distance.

I'd have:

1) Fitz
2) Wilde
3) L. Lewis
4) T. Lewis
5) Calzaghe
6) Hamed
7) Berg
8) Welsh
9) Lynch
10) Hatton

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Kid Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Ken Buchanan
6. Freddie Welsh
7. Kid Berg
8. Naseem Hamed
9.Nigel Benn
10 Benny Lynch
As a Cornishman I'm forced to plump for Fitzsimmons at the top.

Not going to include Fitzsimmons or McLarnin, too many grey areas and it's probably best to avoid the confustion.

1. Ted 'Kid' Lewis
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Freddie Welsh
6. Jack 'Kid' Berg
7. Joe Calzaghe
8. Jim Driscoll
9. Benny Lynch
10. Owen Moran

This is a very hard list to do... it would probably change 5 times a day if I thought about it too much!

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Ted 'Kid' Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Ken Buchanan
6. Jack 'Kid' Berg
7. Joe Calzaghe
8. Benny Lynch
9. Jim Driscoll
10. Freddie Welsh

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Ted Kid Lewis
3. Freddie Welsh
4. Randy Turpin
5. Naseem Hamed
6. Jackie Brown
7. John Conteh
8. Peter Kane
9. Benny Lynch
10. Jock McAvoy

Bumping this up to see if I can get a few more

I've taken a bite.

My list comes with a caveat that I don't know too much pre mid 90s so I will go from around the Naz era onwards. Count or discount as you will good sirs but here are my two cents:

1. Lewis
2. Calzaghe
3. Naz
4. Froch
5. Hatton
6. Eubank
7. Benn
8. Haye
9. Woods
10. Reid

I think Naz was the most talented but Calzaghe pips him as he achieved more and won his big ones.

I look forward to this being obliterated.

1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Ted Kid Lewis
3. Freddie Welsh
4. Jack 'Kid' Berg
5. Ken Buchanan
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Benny Lynch
9 Joe Calzaghe
10. Randolph Turpin

Never could resist adding my own take on this....

1) Ted Kid Lewis
2) Jimmy Wilde
3) Lennox Lewis
4) Ken Buchanan
5) Freddie Welsh
6) Joe Calzaghe
7) Jim Driscoll
8) Owen Moran
9) Jack Kid Berg
10=Naseem Hamed/Randolph Turpin

Conteh and Lynch would be bracketed together just outside this top ten.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Never could resist adding my own take on this....

1) Ted Kid Lewis
2) Jimmy Wilde
3) Lennox Lewis
4) Ken Buchanan
5) Freddie Welsh
6) Joe Calzaghe
7) Jim Driscoll
8) Owen Moran
9) Jack Kid Berg
10=Naseem Hamed/Randolph Turpin

Conteh and Lynch would be bracketed together just outside this top ten.

Cheers mate but I have to disqualify your list for that.

Benny at 12=, you mean? I can see why he would make people's top ten, that's for sure. I've always thought it appropriate to place Conteh with Lynch, two of our greatest talents, and two of our most spectacular wasters as well. Could have been anything they chose, and what they ultimately chose was to be drunks, and in Benny's case, worse, which is infinitely depressing. They might have been numbers one or two if they'd had the dedication and determination of someone like Dennis Andries.

I did a article on Lynch a couple of days ago I will bump it up have a look at it. I'm Scottish mate just defending imo our greatest ever. A lot don't agree with this but if Lynch had dedicated himself properly he could have been held in the same esteem as Wylde.

Plenty of good judges already speak of Benny in the same breath as Wilde, certainly as far as talent is concerned. Obviously, Lynch falls down on the longevity criterion, and he didn't hit as hard as Wilde (nor did anyone else), but Peter Kane is a more impressive victim than anyone on Jimmy's record.

I'm a die-hard Buchanan fanatic, and would always give him a narrow edge over Benny as Scotland's finest, but in terms of pure God-given talent, I'd have Lynch up in the front row with Conteh, Driscoll, Herol Graham and maybe Hamed. Such an enormous waste.

Let me just say hoe delighted I am that you have joined us, captain.

The board will be much the richer for your presence. Welcome aboard.

I really don't know much about ye olde British fighters so I'm going abstain. It pains me to see Calzaghe up so high on so many list though.

Hence I will rubbish him in the traditional manner: Stay at home, feather fisted, cherry picking, shot legend beating, tedious interviewing and beaten by Bernard and Robin.

I'm late in replying, but thanks very much indeed, Windy. It looks pretty promising, I must say.

The captain has made it over? When did this happen!? Great news though I must say, welcome aboard cap.

Just realised i've not posted my list as of yet which will exclude Fitzsimmons who's inclusion would surely make Jimmy McLarnin eligible as well

1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Ted 'kid' Lewis
3. Freddie Welsh
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Jack 'kid' Berg
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Owen Moran
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Joe Calzaghe

The Mighty Atom wrote:Just realised i've not posted my list as of yet which will exclude Fitzsimmons who's inclusion would surely make Jimmy McLarnin eligible as well

1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Ted 'kid' Lewis
3. Freddie Welsh
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Jack 'kid' Berg
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Owen Moran
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Joe Calzaghe

You can put him in if you want others have. Your list your rules.

I personally don't include Fitz and Mc Larnin so my list is as follows. Goes without saying if the consensus is those guys should be in they would both feature

Wilde
Ted Lewis
Lennox Lewis
Freddie Welsh
Joe Calzaghe
Jim Driscoll
Ken Buchanan
Owen Moran
Jack Berg
Naseem Hamed

Bumpin this to see if their is any more to post.

Calzaghe at 5... I dont think he would make my list. I'll have a think tomorrow and post my list...

I've not thought about it yet but not to sure he would make my list either.

Just going to put mine up then totla them up. Results will be up sunday at some point.

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Ted Lewis
4. Freddie Welsh
5. Jim Berg
6. Benny Lynch
7. Jim Driscoll
8. Ken Buchanan
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Owen Moran

I was suprised to see Calzaghe so high on this list at one point when I was totalling it up he was in contention for first place.

The inclusion of Fitzsimmons is a bit misleading especially as Mclarnin is excluded

I never excluded anyone left it up to the person to set their own criteria. Some chose to include Fitzsimmons some chose not to.

Thinks it a bit misleading seeing him 4th that's all because if he is included he's a clear number one by some way too

I had him 1st on my list but their was also a few modern lists that never had him on it and a few who chose not to include him.

With the general consensus being that he's not british don't think he should be included but each to their own

I think you it makes more sense to have people working off the same or similar criteria. If some people arent going to include Fitzsimmons and some people are then the its unlikely to reflect accurately. Almost impossible to consider Fitzsimmons to be outside the top 2 if hes included.

7 People had him 1st no one else included him. I stated at the start he could be included but people chose not to.

Just doesn't seem like a level playing field to me, it's not a case of not including him on skill but rather question marks on his nationality, why I always leave him out, were I to include him i'd include Mclarnin 2nd which is where it becomes even stranger.

No one included McLarnin even those like myself who had Fitz at 1. You chose not to put him in even though others had so you and the others who left him out caused the problem.

Yeah because he's not british, his nationality at his time was always considered to be a new zealander it was only a long time after his death did he start being claimed as british.

For instance if you were to include Mclarnin where would he be?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Yeah because he's not british, his nationality at his time was always considered to be a new zealander it was only a long time after his death did he start being claimed as british.

For instance if you were to include Mclarnin where would he be?

I would have him 3rd maybe 2nd ahead of Wilde. What are you suggesting I do remove Fitz?