Will NZ achieve a "full house"?

With yet another New Zealander named coach of a foreign nation (Ireland this time) to add to the list of Wales, NZ, Australia, Japan, Italy, Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and The Lions... Will NZ coaches soon have occupied coaching positions representing all top rugby playing nations?

this is actually very interesting. It does make you wonder if they see the game so much differently to every one else.

The Scotland job is still up for grabs!

I think they will struggle to get a NZ head coach for SA or England

mckay1402 wrote:this is actually very interesting. It does make you wonder if they see the game so much differently to every one else.

It could be just that people want to believe in them because they know they're from that country....that country!!!!

People either instinctively believe they are better and hire them or they simply are better. The rankings since the rankings began seem to back the latter up. Something about New Zealand rugby that makes it just work - and it's natural that other sides want a slice of it/them.

England is stuffed with Irish jockeys...are they just instinctively better jockeys or does tradition just run deep and trainers believe that they should be?

Does it actualy matter? The coach maybe from NZ, but will that make a difference to the result of the team they are coaching?

When we start seeing these team start to win all their games. Then it is time reflect just how good the NZ coaches are.

It's not completely unimaginable for Plumtree to coach the boks (although it is unlikely)....

majesticimperialman wrote:Does it actualy matter? The coach maybe from NZ, but will that make a difference to the result of the team they are coaching?

When we start seeing these team start to win all their games. Then it is time reflect just how good the NZ coaches are.

Of course you need other ingredients majestic....like players! Players of International calibre in numbers enough to keep a squad going. The NZ coaches aren't magicians.

But Cotter at Clermont is winning enough games to be able to say Cotter makes an impression. Leinster have won enough to be able to say Schmidt makes an impression. Wales have won enough (for a NH side) to be able to say Gatland makes an impression. If he didn't he wouldn't now be Lions coach.

So yeah, it seems to make a difference - there is certainly an argument for it. But winning ALL their games is much too high a bar you set for them.

majesticimperialman wrote:Does it actualy matter? The coach maybe from NZ, but will that make a difference to the result of the team they are coaching?

If the answer to that is no, then it effectively means that coaches have no value in sport.

GloriousEmpire wrote:With yet another New Zealander named coach of a foreign nation (Ireland this time) to add to the list of Wales, NZ, Australia, Japan, Italy, Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and The Lions... Will NZ coaches soon have occupied coaching positions representing all top rugby playing nations?

Italy no longer have a Kiwi coach, and the ultimately doomed experiment with Kirwan means it may bve a while until they do again.

AFAIK Argentina have never had a Kiwi coach, just Graham Henry visited and gave some advice.

Will SA ever have a kiwi coach? When hell freezes over maybe.

Given Plumtree's position at the sharks is look a little uneasy and seems to have lost the dressing room I doubt it he will make it another couple of seasons in the job. There are far better coaches in SA then plumtree anyhow.... the guy has had the most talented SA squad for say 4 years yet they continue to under-achieve.

SA would never appoint a non south african for the job, not now, not ever. Its simply not in their mentality.

To be honest for me it doesn't matter from what nation the coach comes, there are three NZ coaches I would have liked to coach the Boks, two of them are still active coaches.

Laurie Mains coached the Lions in SA, John Plumtree who is coaching the Sharks and then John Mitchell, who I have been listening to in the Supersport Studio on a regular basis since 2011,

It might be conicdental that they are all three from NZ, but I respect them.

But then, those are the only three foreign coaches I would not mind coaching SA

Nor would NZ appoint a foreign coach. What does that say about how they view the game? If you get a foreign coach you're conceding your team needs an edge. Sa or nz would never make that concession.

Probably not, but a good coach is a good coach.

And to be honest unlike FA, I think we currently have very few good coaches.

However one of the biggest reasons why Foreign coaches will not come to SA to coach the Boks will be the interferences of who you may or may not select.

Biltong wrote:Probably not, but a good coach is a good coach.

And to be honest unlike FA, I think we currently have very few good coaches.

However one of the biggest reasons why Foreign coaches will not come to SA to coach the Boks will be the interferences of who you may of may not select.

Really??? You don't rate Drotske, Erasmus and Coetzee???

Coetzee doesn't play great styled rugby but the injuries the Stormers have had in the last 2 years has been horrific and yet they have done very well, attrition style rugby.

Drotske lost near half his first team last year but has built a great team.. with their best player out injured also. They have never bought their way out of trouble.... I fancy them for the CC this year. Meyer doesn't like them so they won't lose too many players for the test window and they are still very strong... i guess it helps when your SR franchise has 2 top division CC sides to choose from.

Given those are coaches with no test experience I think thats pretty decent... you could also throw in Meyer, Mallett and White and of course the ace in the hole.... the head coach of the University of the Western Cape.

I rate erasmus, but he is too wily a character to coach the Boks, he knows the political interference is something he won't put up with.

Drotske will never get to coach the Boks, he isn't the mould of coch they want, they want conservative, Coetzee is most likely our next coach, as he fullfils both criteria, ACI and conservative.

I don't rate coetzee, or Ludeke, bith to conservative for modern day rugby, they refuse to expand their teams core skills and gameplans.

Kia NZ wouldnt appoint a non NZ coach but I believe only because the current depth is so great. I believe if our coaches werent cutting it we would be prepared to look overseas, provided it was in the best interests of the All Blacks. We are used to our other sporting codes having overseas coaches-cricket, League, basketball etc and in those sports we're in similar positions as Ireland is in Rugby- there is frankly better equipped coaches overseas.

But I dont think we would close the door to the option should the situation become dire. I dont believe the position of AB coach must be a kiwi is as sacred as the jersey itself, plus we'd be limiting our options for pursuing rugby excellence.

I agree with Biltong. A good coach is a good coach and we'd be naive to rule the option out purely for nationalistic pride and perhaps a touch of hypocracy- its alright for us to coach others but not have others coach us kind of thing.

I can see the likes of Mallet or White coaching the AB's. Perhaps its too early for us just yet but I wouldnt be surprised if I lived to see it, put it that way....

White can build you a team, but he has aligned himself as an aussie now, he is cementing a future for himself in Australia, doubt he will be back.

Mallet is my ace in the hole.

Perhaps we could have PDV?

You'd have to pay us to release him, he has an ironclad contract... on a sell out tour at the moment as a stand up comic.

Taylorman wrote:Perhaps we could have PDV?

Only if you promise to take his assistant coaches as well. I can just see dick Muir coaching carter.

LondonTiger wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:With yet another New Zealander named coach of a foreign nation (Ireland this time) to add to the list of Wales, NZ, Australia, Japan, Italy, Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and The Lions... Will NZ coaches soon have occupied coaching positions representing all top rugby playing nations?

Italy no longer have a Kiwi coach, and the ultimately doomed experiment with Kirwan means it may bve a while until they do again.

AFAIK Argentina have never had a Kiwi coach, just Graham Henry visited and gave some advice.

Will SA ever have a kiwi coach? When hell freezes over maybe.

Grizz Wyllie coached Argentina a few years back.


NZ has used foreign coaches before - after some years of struggle when the Home Nations got our 7-man scrum formation banned the NZRU got some South African coaches to come over and teach 8-man scrums in the 1950s. That was at provincial level and below admittedly, as the role of national team coach didn't really exist then.

GloriousEmpire wrote:With yet another New Zealander named coach of a foreign nation (Ireland this time) to add to the list of Wales, NZ, Australia, Japan, Italy, Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and The Lions... Will NZ coaches soon have occupied coaching positions representing all top rugby playing nations?

Perhaps I'm behind the times but isnt Steve Mc Dowell coaching Romania, or have I got that wrong?

I think now we pride ourselves on the system we have on place. Centrally contracted players with everything feeding to the elite level. That includes the coaches. We don't take players who play overseas and the same applies to coaches. You have to be part of the system as only then can you have an intimate knowledge of what you have at your disposal. Outside views are all well and good but you need to know how to get the best out of players and that can't be learnt quickly in my opinion.

Ha Kia Rattue just had a right go at that in the Herald recently.

Really rate Mallett and White. Not to be condescending to the NH sides but it almost seems coaching 6N sides is a stepping stone to the ABs job now. If White got the Aussie job look out. Schmidt may well get a Super Rugby job on his return to NZ, then an assistant AB role, then the whole shebang if he plays his cards right. Mind you Rennie and Joseph have done well lately. I'm waiting till the ABs fall upon hard times to see how effective McLean and Foster really are.

Ted used to say to richie go out and win us the game. To Nonu he said go out and play the best for the team. Very simple stuff But shows a deep knowledge of the psyche of the players.

If White or Mallett did their time with nz super franchises I wouldn't mind seeing them get the coaching job. I have a feeling the NZRFU would. What happens after their coaching stint in nz? Lot of intellectual property much like smith being offered the England job. Doesn't sit well with the bosses me thinks.

disneychilly wrote:Ha Kia Rattue just had a right go at that in the Herald recently.

Not to be condescending to the NH sides but it almost seems coaching 6N sides is a stepping stone to the ABs job now.

Why should that even be considered to be condescending? We're smart enough here in the NH...we've already worked that bit out years ago. A New Zealand coach might be using NH coaching (club and International) to make a name for himself and draw his name up the list of coaching for Number 1 team in the world - BUT, even more importantly, he's simply hoping to have a chance of coaching his Home Nation.

Every coach of a any Nation, if they're not too terrified of it, would like to think that one day they might have a shot at coaching their Home Nation. That's always an Honour more than a job to coach your own Nation.

disneychilly wrote: Not to be condescending to the NH sides but it almost seems coaching 6N sides is a stepping stone to the ABs job now.

Thats not condescending at all, in fact I consider it an honor.... we aren't very good at rugby up here you know .....

What do you mean Home Nation. Are you being deliberately ambiguous fly?

Where did my go?!

FFs someone keeps stealing my smiley face emoticon. Nobody leaves until it's returned.

seems the culprit has returned it. Ok nothing to see here. Move on...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:What do you mean Home Nation. Are you being deliberately ambiguous fly?

Hmmmm....... I don't rightly know, kia. Am I being? Home Nation...hmmmmmm I give up. Tell me.

Home is where the heart is. That is not a Home nation. That is home. And Schmidt is not at home but he does get to coach a Home nation.

So I think you're just being coy.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Home is where the heart is. That is not a Home nation. That is home. And Schmidt is not at home but he does get to coach a Home nation.

So I think you're just being coy.

???????????????????? You really will have to help me out with my coyness, kia. I must have even bamboozled myself with smartness now because I don't know what the hell you're on about as regards the 'Home nation' bit???