My take on the Lions squad.

Missed the chat as I had to work (Yeah I know that is unbelieveable), so I had a quick squiz over the selections.

Not surprised at seeing the Welsh starters there, but two ommssions glares at you from the monitor.

NO Rory Best, I would love to know how he is overlooked. a 67 match veteran and Gatland decides to leave him at home?

You can almost bet your bottom dollar that Stephen Moore will be the Wallalby hooker, so you want an experienced campaigner to take him on, and when you consider Healy who in my book is the best loose head prop in the home nations is in the squad you would think that it is only common sense to pair him up with Best. Hibbard has not been a regular starter for Wales and has a third of the test experience Best has, Hartley has discipline problems half the time and isn't even in the class of Best.


I think Robshaw is rather unlucky as well.

It is understandable that Gatland has decided to focus most of his squad on Welsh players, in fact most coaches will go with the players they know best and beleive in the most.

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

Wales have had more than enough shots at australia without success, at this point in time I can really only see 4 or so players that Gatland is going to put in his starting XV that will not be welsh.

I don't know we'll have to wait for the first test match.

The only two that are not welsh that I can see Gatland will select at this point in time is Jonny Sexton and Cian Healy.

I definitely think Gatland has misses a trick with making Warburton captain, I don't think he is one of the better back rowers in the home unions and being captain means he must play.

weird.

did you need a new thread when your opinion is the same as every non-welshman?

My thoughts are very similar, Biltong.

A Wales+ selection - it could backfire; if, as you say he goes down that same path. The Wallabies more than held their own last year in the forward tussle and have gone up a notch this year with players returning from injuries / forced to step up to fill the voids last year.

The other option - bringing in some English/Irish players in the front 5 (which I think he will do + SOB) could also unbalance a confident Welsh working combination which started to bear fruit late in the 6N. Or they could click...

gowershowerpower wrote:did you need a new thread when your opinion is the same as every non-welshman?

Yes flowerpower.

You'll find plenty of them over the upcoming weeks..

Biltong wrote:

gowershowerpower wrote:did you need a new thread when your opinion is the same as every non-welshman?

Yes flowerpower.

You'll find plenty of them over the upcoming weeks..

Besides, your take is always different. No floss... just the bare hard facts.

and no doubt from you mr ego...

gowershowerpower wrote:and no doubt from you mr ego...

flower, go pull your little petals elsewhere, I am in no mood for your ignorance.

Yeah, go pick on some weeds, flower.

Linebreaker wrote:My thoughts are very similar, Biltong.

A Wales+ selection - it could backfire; if, as you say he goes down that same path. The Wallabies more than held their own last year in the forward tussle and have gone up a notch this year with players returning from injuries / forced to step up to fill the voids last year.

The other option - bringing in some English/Irish players in the front 5 (which I think he will do + SOB) could also unbalance a confident Welsh working combination which started to bear fruit late in the 6N. Or they could click...

yeah LB, I reckon you guys got this one.

Your players are gaining good form in the Super XV , you have three forward packs that have been impressive enough, and there are a few surprises that will hang around in your backline.

Linebreaker wrote:Yeah, go pick on some weeds, flower.

.... Weeds, I think weeds are perhaps a tad to tough.

Well spring is on it's way there apparently.

He knows what I mean.

A wandering saddletramp Bible-Preacher scours the old West looking for sinners.............

watch out Biltong, he draws with his right hand but he has another gun in his slicker pocket......

......but I am not afraid, cause flowerpower died in the seventies.

petals, flowers, weeds...amazing. you guys are a great double act...

Biltong wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:Yeah, go pick on some weeds, flower.

.... Weeds, I think weeds are perhaps a tad to tough.

He's quite welcome to come over to my place if he wants... but he'd need to be careful. I've got a few drums of insecticide lying around.

We wouldn't want a little unfortunate accident, now would we?

I think you're right BB... I'm not as confident as I was 4 years ago.

The lions squad is strong... but AUS look very impressive this season, they have near all their players available and just when you cheer that Pocock is injured Smith pops up and continues to play like a 23yr old yet with 100 caps!

I think the RC trophy will be heading their way too... the momentum of a Lions series win will push them through.. esp. with NZ at home first.

I think the Lions lack a bit at 12. Roberts was great vs. SA 4 years ago.... but you always play big in their faces centres vs. SA... you need to match them man for man... against AUS I think he could be found out... I think he's quite lucky to be tour... another coach may not have chosen him.

Biltong wrote:......but I am not afraid, cause flowerpower died in the seventies.

Some flowerpower experts even say it was on the closing night of Woodstock... August 18, 1969.

lived in Sydney for about 7 years mate....nice place....curl curl and narraweena.

If anybody has watched the six nations and they know what they are watching when it comes to rugby, which is probably most of the people on this forum, you would have noticed that the Welsh pack were soundly better than their counterparts in every game, how can anybody make a comment about Richard Hibbard not being a regular starter for Wales when he started everygame bar the first one, which we lost, in the six nations ? After that first game our scrum went from strength to stregngth with Richard Hibbard at the helm, also his work in the loose and in defence is second to none. I am a bit surprised over Rory Best, but he does have a tendancy to struggle in high paced games and he gives away a lot of penalties, so perhaps this was WG thinking. We will not see a Wales + 1 or 2 for the tests we will see at most 6 or 7 Welsh players in my opinion, and it will be the LIONS first fifteen nothing else.

Yes, nice places. Although prone to the odd coastal shower. Powerful surf at times too!

Linebreaker wrote:

Biltong wrote:......but I am not afraid, cause flowerpower died in the seventies.

Some flowerpower experts even say it was on the closing night of Woodstock... August 18, 1969.

knew it was somehwere around then, ah well, it isn't like our double act is going to perform anytime else but now.

powerful! feck me, could only manage Dee Why point when small....sadly.

Lordowlais, surely Best doesn't give away as many penalties as Hartley?

well best does because he plays more.

Love the sly anti Welsh bashing that's going on here.

Truth be told Wales were the best home Nations team at the World Cup, and only Ireland have beaten Wales once in the last 2 years, otherwise Wales have beaten every other European team. Including winning both 6 Nations titles since.

There are a few suprises in the selection I'll admit, Biggar should of been in ahead of Farrell. Farrell was soundly beaten by him in the Cardiff game. Farrell couldn't kick simply penalties in front of the posts, and came off a poor second best to Wilko a few weeks ago. Though maybe as Farells Dad is the defense coach, Gatland thought maybe it wasn't worth upsetting his defense coach over a tight (ish) selection.

Lydiate did suprise me though, personally I think Ryan Jones should of got in ahead of him.

Rory Best didn't deserve to go, he's been píss poor all season.

If I recall Best was heavily penalised during the 6N.

Rowntree had a big say in the front five thats for sure, made Best's task that much more difficult.

eggusackly shifty....and my point earlier was that it could have just been kept to one thread, but egomandriedmeat has too start his own like innit.

Shifty wrote:Love the sly anti Welsh bashing that's going on here.

Truth be told Wales were the best home Nations team at the World Cup, and only Ireland have beaten Wales once in the last 2 years, otherwise Wales have beaten every other European team. Including winning both 6 Nations titles since.

There are a few suprises in the selection I'll admit, Biggar should of been in ahead of Farrell. Farrell was soundly beaten by him in the Cardiff game. Farrell couldn't kick simply penalties in front of the posts, and came off a poor second best to Wilko a few weeks ago. Though maybe as Farells Dad is the defense coach, Gatland thought maybe it wasn't worth upsetting his defense coach over a tight (ish) selection.

Lydiate did suprise me though, personally I think Ryan Jones should of got in ahead of him.

Rory Best didn't deserve to go, he's been píss poor all season.

I agree Farrell was lucky esp. given his Da is a coach. Rowntree got a few of his favourites in too.... but Gatland took Warburton as captain which no other coach would have done and Lydiate who has played 2 games all season. Roberts also probably would have struggled had he not had Gatland et al in his corner. Even if England had won the GS match I don't think the team wouldn't have been that much different.

Biltong wrote:
Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

Wales have had more than enough shots at australia without success, at this point in time I can really only see 4 or so players that Gatland is going to put in his starting XV that will not be welsh.

I definitely think Gatland has misses a trick with making Warburton captain, I don't think he is one of the better back rowers in the home unions and being captain means he must play.

weird.

Biltong although I understand your concern about Wales loosing so frequentley to Australia the average number of points they have lost the last 3 games by is 1.66! I think that suggests that a core of Welsh players reenforced by some of the most experienced and talented players from the other 3 nations must stand a very good chance.

The Welsh Team is a young one and adding all those O's from Ireland to it - O'Driscoll, O'Connell and O'Brien is going to significantly boost its mental toughness, added to that the outside half is critical to a team and Wales have been nearly beating Australia without a top class outside half, introducing Sexton into the mix will get the Welsh power backs and Tuilagi moving with greater incision and speed

You will gather that I see a starting line up of mainly Welsh and Irish players but I think the English and maybe the odd Scot will make a significant impact off the bench, we are going to have a lot more quality reserves to bring on than they will.

I agree with you about the captaincy I would have had POC

Best and Robshaw are the two obvious surprise omissions IMO. Both without doubt deserved to go and both may still because there are always injuries before the plane departs.

Hartley for me is the only guy who really isn't good enough to be a Lion. No idea why he is there. Is it to bite people? Is there going to be a biting call in the rucks? I'm not sure.

Not worried about Warburton as captain. I'm sure he will do just fine. Plenty of experienced heads around him.

That said I hope your wrong Billtongbek re selecting almost a full Welsh team. They are of course the best team in the NH but they don't have all the best players so I hope a sensible approach is taken.

Last 8 matches in a row isn't luck. AUS are a better side then Wales... and for most of last year they had terrible injuries all over the park... probably the worst out of all the major unions... yet they still managed 4-0 vs. Wales (the 2012 & 2013 6N winners).

A couple of players here and there from other nations doesn't make things easier... it takes years for combinations to mould.. these guys have 1 month and a couple of games.

Its a real up hill task.

Newsilure wrote:

Biltong wrote:
Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

Wales have had more than enough shots at australia without success, at this point in time I can really only see 4 or so players that Gatland is going to put in his starting XV that will not be welsh.

I definitely think Gatland has misses a trick with making Warburton captain, I don't think he is one of the better back rowers in the home unions and being captain means he must play.

weird.

Biltong although I understand your concern about Wales loosing so frequentley to Australia the average number of points they have lost the last 3 games by is 1.66! I think that suggests that a core of Welsh players reenforced by some of the most experienced and talented players from the other 3 nations must stand a very good chance.

The Welsh Team is a young one and adding all those O's from Ireland to it - O'Driscoll, O'Connell and O'Brien is going to significantly boost its mental toughness, added to that the outside half is critical to a team and Wales have been nearly beating Australia without a top class outside half, introducing Sexton into the mix will get the Welsh power backs and Tuilagi moving with greater incision and speed

You will gather that I see a starting line up of mainly Welsh and Irish players but I think the English and maybe the odd Scot will make a significant impact off the bench, we are going to have a lot more quality reserves to bring on than they will.

I agree with you about the captaincy I would have had POC

newsilure, it isn't the margins that is concerning to me, it is the menatl aspect, it is said when you keep on winning you make a habit of it, but the opposite is also true, if you keep on losing against an opponent it also becomes a habit.

That is why especially the captain should in my view have been the player with the most success against Australia as that leadership and influence can lead the right winning mentality, if a player has any doubt he shouldn't lead.

fa0019 wrote:If I recall Best was heavily penalised during the 6N.

Rowntree had a big say in the front five thats for sure, made Best's task that much more difficult.

Ireland were the most penalised team in the 6N because they spent most games on the back foot. Best also does a lot of scavenging on the deck so picking up a few penalties was inevitable.

I think we should also acknowledge that Hartley and Youngs both had a man on their shoulder putting in a good word.
Farrell I think also rates Hartley for his defence.

Best is just unlucky.

Its politics but generally, the coaching staff have a big sway.

Had it been someone independent like Nick Mallett I think you would have seen a completely different side. Perhaps 10+ players different.

I lost interest when Stevens was named a player who has quit International rugby for two reasons

1- he wasn't going to get picked
2-he isn't good enough anymore.


Robshaw should have gone shown great form all year and was the only player not to let himself down on the day in Cardiff. plus he would have played his heart out in the mid week games. and he could have covered several positions. I can see Lydiate and Croft returning home early as they just haven't played enough rugby this year.

I hope he has a rest this summer.

fa0019 wrote:Last 8 matches in a row isn't luck. AUS are a better side then Wales... and for most of last year they had terrible injuries all over the park... probably the worst out of all the major unions... yet they still managed 4-0 vs. Wales (the 2012 & 2013 6N winners).

A couple of players here and there from other nations doesn't make things easier... it takes years for combinations to mould.. these guys have 1 month and a couple of games.

Its a real up hill task.

Yes but equally the other three nations have much better stats v Australia so you could argue that logically the sum of all four parts should be too much for the Aussies. In reality it doesn't work like that and Wales' record isn't that relevan either because lets not forget Australia were world champions before the last tour and the Lions blew them apart in the first test. The Lions will gel or they wont. If they do I reckon the Aussies will get blitzed.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Last 8 matches in a row isn't luck. AUS are a better side then Wales... and for most of last year they had terrible injuries all over the park... probably the worst out of all the major unions... yet they still managed 4-0 vs. Wales (the 2012 & 2013 6N winners).

A couple of players here and there from other nations doesn't make things easier... it takes years for combinations to mould.. these guys have 1 month and a couple of games.

Its a real up hill task.

Yes but equally the other three nations have much better stats v Australia so you could argue that logically the sum of all four parts should be too much for the Aussies. In reality it doesn't work like that and Wales' record isn't that relevan either because lets not forget Australia were world champions before the last tour and the Lions blew them apart in the first test. The Lions will gel or they wont. If they do I reckon the Aussies will get blitzed.

guns, I agree with you about the sum of the parts, but that is exactly my concern, if most of those parts are swayed towards Wales, and the captaincy is also the Welsh coatain and the Lions with but a few players are led by the Captain who has not been successful then it is is pretty much the same thing as buying a Touyota but serivicing it with pirate parts.

why is it your concern then bilt? just stop sticking your beak in.

Not really Bill because most matches Aus v Wales have been close enough haven't they? The last 6 were all won by Aus by no more than 1 score. 4 of those games played in the SH.

Surely if you add players such as Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi, etc. guys that Australia have struggled to contain in the past then you have a much stronger outfit.

To add to that the Lions will have some very strong impact subs that Wales would not have.

Still banging on about that losing series. Load of tosh there GG.

Only tiny bit I agree with is the "if the Lions gel" bit. At present it's all ahead of them. Not sure about any blitzing. The Wallabies are more likely to do some of that. It's more our style after all.

The only way for the Lions to prevail, imo, is if they try to emulate the Ireland RWC group match. Brisbane won't suit them... best chance is in Melbourne perhaps (if they lose the 1st). Either way, Australia will respond accordingly (this time) and it may be a case of "shut the gate..." early on in the series.

My dear little flower, this is an opinion site, therefor we can provide our opinions.

Now run along, the irrigation system is about to turn on and you look a tad dehydrated

isn't biltong dehydrated?

opinions are different to concerns.

Biltong wrote:

gowershowerpower wrote:did you need a new thread when your opinion is the same as every non-welshman?

Yes flowerpower.

You'll find plenty of them over the upcoming weeks..

yes please Bilt. Will be refreshing to see some non partisan opinions on this tour.

GunsGerms wrote:Not really Bill because most matches Aus v Wales have been close enough haven't they? The last 6 were all won by Aus by no more than 1 score. 4 of those games played in the SH.

Surely if you add players such as Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi, etc. guys that Australia have struggled to contain in the past then you have a much stronger outfit.

To add to that the Lions will have some very strong impact subs that Wales would not have.

well let's hope Gatland does a good blend.

or even non-partisan concerns...

gowershowerpower wrote:isn't biltong dehydrated?

opinions are different to concerns.

it is in fact cured meat.

Guns you need to remember that was an Aus team that had 20+ injuries to contend with. Its going to be a different Aus team with a lot better dept and quality to spring from the bench.

cured by dehydration.

At last... a proper Leinster fan.

Neither team can afford to get carried away just yet. Lots of work (obviously) in the coming weeks. Australia has selection problems of it's own but I still feel a lot better now compared to a year ago.

gowers you're going to have a busy time catching all these grumbling asides on The Great Lions Jaunt. You're going to be run off your feet policing opinions.