My take on the Lions squad.

First topic message reminder :

Missed the chat as I had to work (Yeah I know that is unbelieveable), so I had a quick squiz over the selections.

Not surprised at seeing the Welsh starters there, but two ommssions glares at you from the monitor.

NO Rory Best, I would love to know how he is overlooked. a 67 match veteran and Gatland decides to leave him at home?

You can almost bet your bottom dollar that Stephen Moore will be the Wallalby hooker, so you want an experienced campaigner to take him on, and when you consider Healy who in my book is the best loose head prop in the home nations is in the squad you would think that it is only common sense to pair him up with Best. Hibbard has not been a regular starter for Wales and has a third of the test experience Best has, Hartley has discipline problems half the time and isn't even in the class of Best.


I think Robshaw is rather unlucky as well.

It is understandable that Gatland has decided to focus most of his squad on Welsh players, in fact most coaches will go with the players they know best and beleive in the most.

Depending on selection it seems the starting 15 might be heavily weighted towards wales which in my humble opinion will not be the way to go.

Wales have had more than enough shots at australia without success, at this point in time I can really only see 4 or so players that Gatland is going to put in his starting XV that will not be welsh.

I don't know we'll have to wait for the first test match.

The only two that are not welsh that I can see Gatland will select at this point in time is Jonny Sexton and Cian Healy.

I definitely think Gatland has misses a trick with making Warburton captain, I don't think he is one of the better back rowers in the home unions and being captain means he must play.

weird.

My thoughts on the Lions selection:

It just occurred to me that the team that took to the field against England in the last game of the 6N could be replicated when the Lions take on the Aussies, but with one notable omission - no Welsh number 10.

That starts begging some questions. Can you see Sexton or Farrell interfacing in any meaningful way with Phillips? Maybe not, so you replace Phillips with who..Murray? Then it has to be Sexton, but what about the back row link? Heaslip instead of Faletau perhaps. With that axis BOD has to be one of the centres surely? So one of the Welsh centres goes and with that midfield it might make a bit of sense putting Bowe on one of the wings and while we're at it, complete the Irish spine with Kearney - yeah, that could work. So, that's got rid of five Welshmen.

Then of course we could put Farrell at 10 with Ben Youngs inside him. Of course Tuilagi would have to feature.....

Bugger it, I don't think I want to be a selector, I think my head will blow up!

WG will start with Warburton at 6 and Tuperic at 7, so Australia had better pick their fittest and fastest flankers they've got because those two will be everywhere, I would expect Heaslip to be picked at eight for his carrying, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Falatua there either, we have some really good options coming off the bench as well I just cannot wait for this tour to start.

Lord Dowlais..... In my opinion being a non welshman with reference to Hibbard and being the best hooker in Wales..... Ken Owen was at least his equal during the 6Ns and over the last six weeks with the Scarlets has been a much much better player. The amazing thing about this disappointing and totally disjointed squad is that we have THREE 15s THREE 9s and only TWO 10s with NO utility players at all. Pathetic that Ben Morgan is not selected and Faletau is, disgraceful that Kelly Brown who has been consistently good all season is not on the plane, the same with Ryan Jones, the same with Ryan Grant who tucked Adam Jones up like a kipper in the 6Ns but even more so just two weeks ago when the Weegies destroyed the Os and in the same match Barclay destroyed Tuperic (who the week before was beaten by Warbs). Grant Brown Laidlaw, Ken Owens, Ben Morgan, and Ryan should all be on the plane. To put the Welsh 15 selected they formed the bulk of the team that was soundly beaten 3-0 by probably the weakest Aussie team in living history with 21 players injured or not available. Gatland had a chance to select a squad to beat a SH side in their own back yard and now look what he has done. Give him a Castlemaine XXXX and call him a dingo.... strewth Sheila

[quote="LeinsterFan4life"]

GunsGerms wrote: Ha I'm guessing you don't watch super 15 rugby then? Gill at only 20 years old is already better than any 7 in the NH imo. The guy is brilliant and will be a star in this series and yes they did have an injury crisis for 4 of the tests be because 3 of them were in one series in the summer and the fourth was in November if the same year.

Ha super rugby is not the same thing as test rugby.

Ben Morgan is not fit enough to finish an international game, there is no way Ryan Grant tucked Adam Jones up, I suspect you've got your Scottish tinted glasses on as only one team turned up to scrummage in the Ospreys v Glasgow game and it was not Glasgow, anyway that game is gone now, Glasgow deserved their win and we are talking about the Lions, I am sorry but Wales are the six nations champions and they won it by beating Scotland in Scotland, how can you say that the best nation in the NH should not have as many players as they should because of recent results with Australia who had 21 injuries apparently, you want more Scottish players ? Then Scotland need to do more than finish third in the six nations, Hibbard is first choice for Wales, and he was when he scored the winning try in Murrifield, I am sorry but you just sound like other bitter posters on here, perhaps you should go on the anti Lions thread.

Lord Dowlais..... two thing 6Ns was TWO months ago and the first Lions game is ONE month ahead and the first test is SEVEN weeks ahead. That is why Lydiate is boarding the plane...... do you want me to say this a bit more slowly so it sinks in. The Scarlets pack with Owen balancing the front row destroyed Glasgow, the following week Glasgow did the same to the Os with Hibbard as usual popping up due to the pressure Grant was putting on Adam. Those two games revealed just how improved Ken Owens is and how much better he is over Hibbard. Warburton beat up Tuperic and the following week Barclay did an even better job. This is not form of 6Ns in Feb this is form of end of April. Ben Morgan had MOM last week and has been awesome for Glos this season and but for injury would probably have made the difference in Englands final match against Wales.... he should be on the plane. As far as anti-Welsh how can I be when I have already stated that Ken and Ryan should be going. If the Lions play a back row of Warbs at 6 Tips at 7 and Toby at 8 we will not win a single test against what is going to be a totally improved Australia to last year

Hibbard went off early against Glasgow, and who said anything about a Welsh 6,7,8 ? I said Gatland will probably start with Warbs and Tips and I went for Heaslip at 8, but knowing Gatland he would probably pick Faletau. Also you cannot dismiss the six nations, international rugby is a step up from club or regional rugby and it is how much of a step up you can make that make's the difference, certain players can do it, others cannot. Lydiate will struggle to start the test matches with choices we have, but he is certainly good enough to be there, I cannot recall Tuperic getting beaten up by anyone by the way, infact wasn't he MOM against the Blues, I certainly remember everyone crowing over him in that game, anyway I am not arguing about this, if you ask me the on balance of it all the right choices have been made, except for perhaps Hartley and Stevens, but other than that, also 37 players doesn't seem right to me, I expect a 38th player to be called up after the HC final or after the T14 is over.

My view for what its worth:

Stevens is a good choice but james can feel unlucky, Vainupolo will be great off bench but not as a starter

Hartley over Best puzzles me

Robshaw, Beattie, R Jones and Morgan missing out proves how tough the backrow battle was

No obvious 3rd cover for o/half is a big worry, if either of Sexton or Farrel get injured then I guess they will fly replacement out but who would cover in the meantime Hogg maybe, Halfpenny possible?

Despite not being a Hook fan did think he or 36 might have sneaked on plane

My starting XV from the squad

Healy
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
POC
Lydiate
Faletau
Warburton

Youngs
Sexton

Maitland
BOD
Tuilagi
Cuthbert

Halfpenny

LD,

I cant see him taking a risk on Lydiate then not picking him, I would expect to see Dan and Sam there with Faletau or Heaslip at 8

Biltong wrote:Seriously?

Where have I poured scorn over the Welsh players?

I questioned the experience of Best over Hibbard.
I questioned whether taking a captain who I don't bekieve is the better backrower and his losing streak against OZ.

Please explain?

Hibbard was part of a Welsh front row unit that has smashed almost all before them at scrum time. The only scrum which matched them was the French one, and even then refereeing interpretations and the condition of the pitch didn't help matters.

Warburton can play 6 or 7, so he can slot in somewhere.
The bottom line for me is coaches do generally go for someone their familiar with and trust when they try and build a team at short notice, Ian McGeechan went for Finlay Calder in 89, and Gavin Hastings in 93, Clive Woodward wanted Martin Johnson for the 2005 tour, but he declined.
At least Gatland has selected the most successful and best players in Europe to form the core of his squad. Woodward simply picked the 2003 world cup team in 2005, several years after they all retired and that tour was a shambles.

Your taking on the Wallabies in their own backyard and Wales had a 3 test tour there in 2012, so half the squad are well prepared and it won't be alien place for them.

I think my two big concerns with the two most surprising omissions- Rory Best and Chris Robshaw- is that we've given up the chance to pick two ideal tourists.

The Geech, Lions guru, has always said it's not just the ability it's the character of the man that makes the ideal tourist. I think we've overlooked two tough players who are experienced, level headed, have great leadership qualities and are real team players who would give everything to the cause whether they were test Lions or dirt trackers.

I think we are weaker without them, on and off the pitch. Two guys who could have Captained the midweek side and supported the Captain, two able lieutentants, and two wonderful tourists.

Notch wrote:I think my two big concerns with the two most surprising omissions- Rory Best and Chris Robshaw- is that we've given up the chance to pick two ideal tourists.

+ 1

Its also quite a dull selection. Not much verve or pace in the backline. The hard grounds out there are ideal for the likes of Care, Madigan, Zebo, Wade, Gilroy etc.

Apart from Hogg, Sexton and Young's maybe there's not much game breaking ability there, no x-factor.

Notch wrote:I think my two big concerns with the two most surprising omissions- Rory Best and Chris Robshaw- is that we've given up the chance to pick two ideal tourists.

The Geech, Lions guru, has always said it's not just the ability it's the character of the man that makes the ideal tourist. I think we've overlooked two tough players who are experienced, level headed, have great leadership qualities and are real team players who would give everything to the cause whether they were test Lions or dirt trackers.

I think we are weaker without them, on and off the pitch. Two guys who could have Captained the midweek side and supported the Captain, two able lieutentants, and two wonderful tourists.

Agree 100 per cent

X factor? It's all the B factor. Bang, bosh and bia... well, you know. Different coaches have their own priorities in selection.

(Pulls the pin and runs away)

Notch wrote:I think my two big concerns with the two most surprising omissions- Rory Best and Chris Robshaw- is that we've given up the chance to pick two ideal tourists.

The Geech, Lions guru, has always said it's not just the ability it's the character of the man that makes the ideal tourist. I think we've overlooked two tough players who are experienced, level headed, have great leadership qualities and are real team players who would give everything to the cause whether they were test Lions or dirt trackers.

I think we are weaker without them, on and off the pitch. Two guys who could have Captained the midweek side and supported the Captain, two able lieutentants, and two wonderful tourists.

+1

Couldn't have worded that better myself, completely agree with this sentiment. And have to say am really gutted for both Best and Robshaw.

Also agree with a few other posters in that I don't see as much flair in the backline as I would have liked, let's just hope we can be inventive enough!

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:I think my two big concerns with the two most surprising omissions- Rory Best and Chris Robshaw- is that we've given up the chance to pick two ideal tourists.

+ 1

Its also quite a dull selection. Not much verve or pace in the backline. The hard grounds out there are ideal for the likes of Care, Madigan, Zebo, Wade, Gilroy etc.

Apart from Hogg, Sexton and Young's maybe there's not much game breaking ability there, no x-factor.

I'd much rather have Zebo than Kearney on recent form. Zebo can also cover full back far better than Kearney can cover wing. Madigan I always was praying for but Gatland decided not to pick a young bolter.

I guess I was never going to be happy but my main niggles with the squad are:

1. Inclusion of Stevens,Croft, Lydiate and Hartley
2. Exclusions of Best, Brown and personally, Zebo
3. Just two fly-half capable players, and Farrell has clearly been selected for one reason only
4. Lack of excitement as you say in the backline, nearly every player bar Hogg, Youngs and Sexton from 9-15 are geared towards Gatland-ball

The fact is Best was THE best hooker in the home nations in 2011 and 2012.

Unfortunately for him he had a poor 6 Nations. And the constant lineout malfunctions especially have cost him his place.

He would have been a great squad man though whether starting or not. As would Robshaw. Both could still go though. There'll be injuries.

No surprise at all there are so many Welsh players. They've won the 6 nations twice in a row.

I think Youngs at 9 with Sexton and O'Driscoll in the midfield along with Roberts or Tuilagi could bring more tempo and guile to the Lions than the Welsh normally exhibit. O'Brien can tackle like Lydiate and brings much more when given the ball.

I think POC/Gray could be a legendary second row.

After that I'd go with Welsh players give are take one or two on form.

Notch wrote:X factor? It's all the B factor. Bang, bosh and bia... well, you know. Different coaches have their own priorities in selection.

(Pulls the pin and runs away)

Notch you know I'm a actually big bang, bosh fan, it works well most of the time ... and I'm an admirer of the Welsh game plan but it won't work against the SH sides. You need something extra up your sleeve and I just don't see that in the selection. If plan A doesn't work... well the Lions a in trouble....

Feckless Rogue wrote:The fact is Best was THE best hooker in the home nations in 2011 and 2012.

Unfortunately for him he had a poor 6 Nations. And the constant lineout malfunctions especially have cost him his place.

He would have been a great squad man though whether starting or not. As would Robshaw. Both could still go though. There'll be injuries.

No surprise at all there are so many Welsh players. They've won the 6 nations twice in a row.

I think Youngs at 9 with Sexton and O'Driscoll in the midfield along with Roberts or Tuilagi could bring more tempo and guile to the Lions than the Welsh normally exhibit. O'Brien can tackle like Lydiate and brings much more when given the ball.

I think POC/Gray could be a legendary second row.

After that I'd go with Welsh players give are take one or two on form.

I agree with Feckless here with Youngs and Sexton bringing a sense of urgency and tempo compared to what Wales are used to - Healey Hibbard and Jones are a hugely formidable front row and with Grey or Evans partnering POC we have a strong boiler room - Back row balance is key and OBrien offers a lot alongside Warburton and Toby with Tipuric on the bench. I would include Hogg at FB with 1/2p on the bench. Very very strong side

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:X factor? It's all the B factor. Bang, bosh and bia... well, you know. Different coaches have their own priorities in selection.

(Pulls the pin and runs away)

Notch you know I'm a actually big bang, bosh fan, it works well most of the time ... and I'm an admirer of the Welsh game plan but it won't work against the SH sides. You need something extra up your sleeve and I just don't see that in the selection. If plan A doesn't work... well the Lions a in trouble....

It didn't work the last 4 times Wales played an injury ravenged Australia so I wouldn't hold out much hope.

Hogg, Youngs, Sexton and BOD have never played for Wales v Aus - Get over it LF4 there is plenty of dynamism and power there to beat Aus

But is the true orchestrator of Welsh bang, bosh, zip, and sweat sitting at home in Wales?

Is the real zen master Shaun Edwards? Will even the bang, bosh, wallop, splat gameplan materialise in any effective capacity without him???

I'm genuinely beginning to wonder about that. Just who did the real work at Wales? And if he isn't on the plane is it going to be Welsh guys trying to mimic an English gameplan?

RubyGuby wrote:Hogg, Youngs, Sexton and BOD have never played for Wales v Aus - Get over it LF4 there is plenty of dynamism and power there to beat Aus

It's not just dynamism and power we need- we could use a bit of creativity behind the scrum too. I'm worried about our distribution.

Not a lot of discussion about defence and how they're going to cope with the Ozzies in the backs. For me thats the make or break of this tour. The Lions defence out wide.

If they dont control that, it will make the difference. In the last 12 months NH sides havnt scored a lot of tries, I dont expect that to change a lot here. Tipuric and Warburton will be critical to the Lions chances in this respect- forcing turnovers, plugging gaps.

Forget dominating Oz in the pack. Nether NZ or SA could do it effectively so thats a huge fallacy. And theyre already used to living on oily rags...

Wow. There are some feisty commenters going on here.

GunsGerms wrote:Surely if you add players such as Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi, etc. guys that Australia have struggled to contain in the past then you have a much stronger outfit.

I'll match your Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi with Genia, Cooper, Horwill and MMM and raise you a George Smith, Israel Folau, Liam Gill, Jesse Mogg and CL - all at least equal players, if not better IMO. I would be surprised if the Wallaby back line contains more than 3 players who defeated Wales over the past 4 games, those being Digby, AAC and JOC. Even then it would be no surprise to see only 2 of those 3 in the run on side. I'm not sure why NH posters are even mentioning Beale, let alone Mike Harris in regard to the Wallaby squad. KB has been 2nd rate all year and Harris can't get a start with the Reds. I am wondering where all this NH confidence comes from because aside from Scotland (am surprised at the lack of Scottish forward representation) no Home Nation defeated a depleted Wallaby team, despite numerous attempts. I hope the Lions players and coaches are as over- confident as some of their fans.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:X factor? It's all the B factor. Bang, bosh and bia... well, you know. Different coaches have their own priorities in selection.

(Pulls the pin and runs away)

Notch you know I'm a actually big bang, bosh fan, it works well most of the time ... and I'm an admirer of the Welsh game plan but it won't work against the SH sides. You need something extra up your sleeve and I just don't see that in the selection. If plan A doesn't work... well the Lions a in trouble....

It didn't work the last 4 times Wales played an injury ravenged Australia so I wouldn't hold out much hope.

It did work really though. It's not due to tactics why we lost, it's due to individual errors and naivety. I don't think Gatland is going to look to play purely Bosh, despite the squad. It's not in his best interests to. Players like Roberts and Davies etc have proven capable of being attack minded before. We do have extra up our sleeve to supplement them now anyway, with BOD and Sexton being probable starters.

Sexton is key to our hopes in the Tests. Farrell isn't a playmaker and we won't beat the Wallabies playing ten-man rugby.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Sexton is key to our hopes in the Tests. Farrell isn't a playmaker and we won't beat the Wallabies playing ten-man rugby.

Except that is probably the best chance you have. None of the NH sides played good front foot ball as a foundation to winning their matches with any consistency, if at all during the whole of last year. Except for the odd moments here and there it was all about winning the ball from set pieces, gaining a metre here or there through one offs, ball retention and a heck of a lot of lateral movement of the ball.

Hard, safe, percentage, goalkicks. That will be the Lions best chance of success so why all this talk of moving the ball, distribution, Sexton getting the backline going when none if this is being done now?

When has Sexton guided test wins over SH sides through getting the backline going, being the playmaker. Doing this in the NH doesnt count. Lions fans need to be realistic. It is obvious the Lions will play to their strengths and that is certainly not in the backs.

These thoughts are also echoed by Deans with this selection and to a degree by Gatland when he admitted ringing Wilko to check his availability- a sure guide to a 10 man game. And why would he ask Wilko to play if he only wanted him for the midweeks- no point in that. Sure signs that Farrell will be at 10 come test time. Sexton will be brought on when they need to come from behind to score tries, reminiscent of the Ogara Sexton tag team of a few seasons ago.

I don't mind my argument being blown apart when it's done so eloquently.

well...I'll stop there ...just been reading Deans thoughts on the squad and a lot of it rings true, the way we all see this tour going down here. Don't get me wrong, its going to be exciting. I do hope Maitland gets to pin one on his old coach.

We (Wales) play a direct, physical game under Gatland and it stands to reason that we'll see the Lions play that kind of game too; but if we have Sexton varying things, going wide from first phase occasionally, threatening the line himself, then that'll put doubt in the Wallabies' minds. There's nothing worse for me than seeing Wales give it to Jamie Roberts to take it up every time. As effective as he can be, the opposition know what's coming. If we can keep them guessing, that can create space.

Icu wrote:Wow. There are some feisty commenters going on here.

GunsGerms wrote:Surely if you add players such as Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi, etc. guys that Australia have struggled to contain in the past then you have a much stronger outfit.

I'll match your Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi with Genia, Cooper, Horwill and MMM and raise you a George Smith, Israel Folau, Liam Gill, Jesse Mogg and CL - all at least equal players, if not better IMO. I would be surprised if the Wallaby back line contains more than 3 players who defeated Wales over the past 4 games, those being Digby, AAC and JOC. Even then it would be no surprise to see only 2 of those 3 in the run on side. I'm not sure why NH posters are even mentioning Beale, let alone Mike Harris in regard to the Wallaby squad. KB has been 2nd rate all year and Harris can't get a start with the Reds. I am wondering where all this NH confidence comes from because aside from Scotland (am surprised at the lack of Scottish forward representation) no Home Nation defeated a depleted Wallaby team, despite numerous attempts. I hope the Lions players and coaches are as over- confident as some of their fans.

ICU - There is NO overconfidence - all Im reading is how this is already a foregone conclusion between a large and undynamic Lions squad against a vibrant Australian team. I just thi nk it's not as simple as that and I believe the Lions will win. People quoting the performance of NH teams against Aus over the past few years has no bearing on this tour whatsoever

Icu wrote: I am wondering where all this NH confidence comes from because aside from Scotland (am surprised at the lack of Scottish forward representation) no Home Nation defeated a depleted Wallaby team, despite numerous attempts. I hope the Lions players and coaches are as over- confident as some of their fans.

Totally agree. The Lions are up against it here and on paper this is a 3-0 whitewash for the Wallabies. This is a very mediocre looking Lions squad with too many form players left out.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't mind my argument being blown apart when it's done so eloquently.

That was a great reply from Taylorman. Inwardly, I'm thinking exactly the same.

I stayed up for most of the 6N and apart from that last match... it was excruciatingly painful rugby to watch. The commentators tried their best to make every touch sound superlative - but honestly - who are they kidding? Most of it was dreadful. Same with the HEC; apart from some ASM matches but not their last one.

Yeah if only every game could be as exciting as the 2011 RWC Final - What was it? 8-7 or something

A dull safe selection which will be geared to playing dull safe Rugby.Cannot say that this was unexpected having seen Wales under Gats.
If it works folk will not complain too much.Pragmatism is the order of the day.
We have very few exciting backs up here so Gats' hand has been forced.Our cudgel will take on the Aussie rapier.
Zebo and Wade would have been nice but in reality never an option from the outset.
If we get blitzed in the first Test I would not be surprised if a handful of flair players were parachuted in to offer a plan B to cover for "injuries".

Taffineastbourne wrote:A dull safe selection which will be geared to playing dull safe Rugby.Cannot say that this was unexpected having seen Wales under Gats.
If it works folk will not complain too much.Pragmatism is the order of the day.
We have very few exciting backs up here so Gats' hand has been forced.Our cudgel will take on the Aussie rapier.
Zebo and Wade would have been nice but in reality never an option from the outset.
If we get blitzed in the first Test I would not be surprised if a handful of flair players were parachuted in to offer a plan B to cover for "injuries".

I think that is one of the biggest concerns. There is no plan B. We have set our stall out, and if that is not working we are in trouble

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah if only every game could be as exciting as the 2011 RWC Final - What was it? 8-7 or something

The 35-12 against France in Cardiff '99 RWC Final was fun to watch.

No team has scored more points in RWC Finals than Australia and it was good to hear Robbie say today that this (Lions Series) is an even bigger challenge for the players than the RWC. (not that I agree... and I think he was stretching things too for the cameras) So it sounds as though they are completely driven to succeed and going on recent form - I just want them to go up another notch for this series.

I think it's possible considering the current form of Australian teams in SXV with some real talent rising and the older, more experienced heads (with plenty of international caps) finding something extra - resulting in some very distinguished performances at a very high level of rugby.

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah if only every game could be as exciting as the 2011 RWC Final - What was it? 8-7 or something

Yeah remarkably similar to their 8-9 Wesh semi...must be a French thing...

Taylorman wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah if only every game could be as exciting as the 2011 RWC Final - What was it? 8-7 or something

Yeah remarkably similar to their 8-9 Wesh semi...must be a French thing...

Was that the game were the Lions captain got sent off? .....

Oops...youre right Rodders...he doesnt have a lot of out this way...wonder if Gats thought of that...maybe the tides a turning...

Didn't someone once say that if you keep banging on the barn door... eventually it will open? Maybe that's The Plan?

So there's no hope for the Lions - You guys do make me laugh I'll give you that

Laughter is good for you.

Biltong wrote:Laughter is good for you.

Riskysports wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:A dull safe selection which will be geared to playing dull safe Rugby.Cannot say that this was unexpected having seen Wales under Gats.
If it works folk will not complain too much.Pragmatism is the order of the day.
We have very few exciting backs up here so Gats' hand has been forced.Our cudgel will take on the Aussie rapier.
Zebo and Wade would have been nice but in reality never an option from the outset.
If we get blitzed in the first Test I would not be surprised if a handful of flair players were parachuted in to offer a plan B to cover for "injuries".

I think that is one of the biggest concerns. There is no plan B. We have set our stall out, and if that is not working we are in trouble

What grates the most with folks espousing their particular faves like Brown,Robshaw,Best,Wood,Morgan etc.Most would simply be swapping like for like.The basic model will remain fairly rigid.Sh@t or bust approach does seem fairly desperate.Players like Madigan,Wade,Burns,Hook and even Foden would have given a choice of playing styles.Fingers are crossed.

Biltong wrote:

gowershowerpower wrote:and no doubt from you mr ego...

flower, go pull your little petals elsewhere, I am in no mood for your ignorance.

Now now stop it you two.

Oh sorry I am not a MOD, but you are are you not.

Icu wrote:Wow. There are some feisty commenters going on here.

GunsGerms wrote:Surely if you add players such as Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi, etc. guys that Australia have struggled to contain in the past then you have a much stronger outfit.

I'll match your Sexton, Healy, SOB, Tuilagi with Genia, Cooper, Horwill and MMM and raise you a George Smith, Israel Folau, Liam Gill, Jesse Mogg and CL - all at least equal players, if not better IMO. I would be surprised if the Wallaby back line contains more than 3 players who defeated Wales over the past 4 games, those being Digby, AAC and JOC. Even then it would be no surprise to see only 2 of those 3 in the run on side. I'm not sure why NH posters are even mentioning Beale, let alone Mike Harris in regard to the Wallaby squad. KB has been 2nd rate all year and Harris can't get a start with the Reds. I am wondering where all this NH confidence comes from because aside from Scotland (am surprised at the lack of Scottish forward representation) no Home Nation defeated a depleted Wallaby team, despite numerous attempts. I hope the Lions players and coaches are as over- confident as some of their fans.

God I hope Israel Folau, Liam Gill and Jesse Mogg all start for the Wallabies. I know they wont though because they are all uncapped and untested at international level. Folau doesnt even know the rules of union.

George Smith hasnt played international rugby for a long time so wouldnt be particularly worried about. That would be like the lions calling up Martin Williams and claiming he is that messiah.

Cooper and Genia are grossly over rated in particular Cooper who consistently fails to shine at international level. He is also potentially a side show distraction that the Aussies dont need. Genia is probably the best SH in the world right now but Ive seen him fold enough times to be confident that if enough pressure is put on him he can be neutralised ala the last time he faced Sexton.

"no Home Nation defeated a depleted Wallaby team, despite numerous attempts"

Ireland defeated a more or less full strength Wallaby team in the world cup. Pocock was the main absentee but he will be missing again now anyway.

James Horwell has really stood up in the last few years for the reds and Australia but he will be up against one of if not the best line operators in the world.

Im not particularly concerned about any one player the Aussies have. They dont have a Carter or a Drico. The biggest threat the Aussies represent is that they are unbelievably good at out thinking teams and are usually extremely well prepared. They can be struggling in a match and adapt and turn things around better than any team.

The Lions will need to mix it up and they cant afford to be too predictable.

dragonbreath wrote:

Biltong wrote:

gowershowerpower wrote:and no doubt from you mr ego...

flower, go pull your little petals elsewhere, I am in no mood for your ignorance.

Now now stop it you two.

Oh sorry I am not a MOD, but you are are you not.

i am a poster first mate, would you have preferred me put my mod hat on because flower went "your ego" route, or as a poster take him on?

What you don't realise is that we as mods also get fedup with being attacked, and yesterday I was i the right mood for my little flower.