Mayweather And The Welterweights He Should Have Fought

Hi guys, with the upcoming Maywetaher showdown between him and Guerrero, I thought I'd create another thread about Floyd Joy Mayweather Jr!! How original of me, I know!!

So this is basically dedicated to the guys that Floyd SHOULD have fought, mainly around the 2007 -2009 part of his career where he took a 21 month abscence to "recharge his batteries". To be fair to Floyd, it could be part of his success with his longevity, seemingly not slowing down much at the age of 36.

You're all more than welcome to add in other fighters that aren't Welterweights that he perhaps should have fought such as Tszyu, or any that I may have missed off.

Miguel Cotto

After Cotto defeated Shane Mosley he was being veiled around as possibly the best Welterweight on the planet, in a red hot division. Undefeated he had claimed Zab Judahs scalp at the weight and had beaten a good undefeated fighter in Quintana that went on to upset Paul Williams, although Quintana did blow hot and cold throughout his career.

Of course Cotto then went on to lose a crushing and controversial defeat to Antonio Margarito, however he was generally at the time one of the main guys that could be conceived to be a major test to Mayweather at the weight.

So, what about the actual fight, Cotto at Welterweight was slightly quicker and would pressure more but he wouldn't do it as carefully and clever as he learned to do slightly later on in his career. He became a smarter fighter, but his body couldn't quite react the same as it used to, despite coming forward with more guile and experience.

For me, this is actually an easier fight for Mayweather at 147 than it was at 154last year. Due to the fact that Cotto developed him self into a much smarter fighter and thats what counted for him going forward against Floyd, his timing was good and he came forward in a much smarter manner than he would have earlier in his career.

Floyd to pick Cotto off after a decent start from Cotto and really push Cotto back towards the later stages of the fight.

Paul Williams

Williams is a very interesting one. A guy standing at 6"2, Welterweight, was one of the most avoided fighters around at one point. Throwing 100 punches a round often meant that his ridiculously long arms would swarm your body and would mean that it woukld be easy for somebody with a low workrate to be outworked by a guy like him.

It became apparent that after beating MArgarito that he was a force to be reckoned with, however, Williams didn't have an awful lot of amateur experience and it really showed in his fight against with Quintana. Williams clearly had a problem with Southpaws, especially quick ones with good movement and a fantastic straight left hand. (Quintana, Martinez, Lara). However, he was very awkward and good at swarming his opponents and could have made it incredible awkward for Mayweather.

At the same time, Williaqms didn't ever learn to fight at his advantages, his long body and long arms could have made him a real beast at the weight when used properly, but sadly I don't think he ever utilised it well enough to actually get 7 rounds agaisnt someone of Floyds class.

For me, Floyd to be just a bit too quick for him and too good at controlling the range of the fight for Williams to seriously be effective, however, he would probably take around 3 rounds due to his workrate and awkwardness.

Antonio Margarito

Margarito had a slow start to his career but was building himself up rather well, it was possible for this fight to come for Margarito before he lost to Paul Williams, it was also possible when he was lining up for a shot against Cotto and most certainly after the Coto win. A lot of controversy surrounds Margarito's career however with the hand wraps against Mosley and possibly Cotto, which brings doubt into his other meaningful fights at the weight.

For me Margarito is just far too slow to catch Floyd and were it not for Margarito's absolutely unbelievable chin I think he would under normal circumstances be taken out rather fast. I see Floyd doing a job similar to what he did to Gatti, just down to the speed and the ridiculous skill difference between the two I think that he would go right hand crazy over his face.

That being said, Pacqiaou probably hits a bit harder than Floyd and with more combinations and Margarito simply kept on walking him down, relentlessly until his body could barely take anymore. Makes me think that Floyd's punches perhaps won't be enough to seriously hurt Margarito, but have enough on them to keep him some form of honest but get outboxed to a UD.

So a decent start on the main 3 at Welterweight, have any others for any others from other weights or any at Welterweight that I have missed out on, some glaringly obvious ones?

Marg was never anything but ordinary..............A Williams fight didn't matter .......because Williams was taller than Hearns and Duran who was 135 champ not 130 champ like Floyd gets a free pass on that fight..........

Cotto was too lazy too often in his fights..........Paulie gave him a good go..winning at least four out of 12 rounds on two cards and five on the other...and Paulie is garbage...

Floyd didn't need any of these guys.........

Ideally he would have fought all of them. You might be able to ecuse Margarito or Williams at the time as being too short lived or not huge fights but an unbeaten Cotto would have been a massive fight that ticked all the boxes for a major fight. Both unbeaten, both highly rated pound for pound, both big fanbases. Id make Mayweather favourite but no real reason not make the fight happen.

Margarito, would have added depth and activity to Mayweather but never been particularly sold that he causes Mayweather much problems and I dont think it was a major fight. He was a legitimate contender and champion though.

Williams I would make a dark horse to beat Mayweather through a combination of durability, work rate and freakish size at the weight. I can see why Mayweather would never want that fight as it was high risk low reward but Williams just when he seemed to have all the momentum bizzarely lost to Quintana which made a Mayweather fight fairly dead. After he beat Margarito though he would again have been a more that worthy opponent.

If Margarito could punch I would say he will walk though Money enough to land a few clean shots. He nearly dropped Manny with one single body shot, but he weighed +-165 for that fight. I think if Mayweather stays up (with no reason to believe he wont) its a pretty clean shut out.

Paul Williams could have beat Mayweather if he knew how to freakin fight. Didnt, but I cant see Money convincingly putting him away in any case, with an excitable judge maybe giving him seven rounds.

Cotto really just wasnt elite, a very good era pfp fighter, but the smaller the weight, the more it suits MoneyMay.

Mayweather perhaps struggles with Williams early but the other two.......

Marg fought with his face..........Way too easy to hit like Hatton and Cotto just was too lazy in most of his fights..........

Think Manny was the only test for Floyd.Even then you'd have to pick Mayweather to find a way....

I still think Margarito walks through Floyds punches and cleanly connects a few, but how big was his punch? Like I said he seemed to hurt Manny with every punch, but he was a Super middleweight that night.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marg was never anything but ordinary..............A Williams fight didn't matter .......because Williams was taller than Hearns and Duran who was 135 champ not 130 champ like Floyd gets a free pass on that fight..........

Cotto was too lazy too often in his fights..........Paulie gave him a good go..winning at least four out of 12 rounds on two cards and five on the other...and Paulie is garbage...

Floyd didn't need any of these guys.........

Who needs top ranked opponents?

Why not just fight once a year against whoever will make you a ton of money with no risk.

I'd make Floyd favourite for all 3 fights but it really is poor that he didn't fight any of them.

Margarito was a cheating scum bag and shouldn't even be mentioned in mayweathers bracket once he was caught he got smashed by mosley if mosley hits him that much whilst recieving little punishment floyd would be 60+% connection which means he simply wouldn't lose

I also think a lot of people underestimate floyds power, pacman koed cotto but to be fair he could've survived the last minute and he's meant to punch a lot harder, same with mosley, so this whole he would walk him down I don't agree with he would hit and move simpler to the baldimor fight boring but would hardly lose a round

Other than an opportunistic liberty punch at that idiot Ortiz, Mayweather hasnt really hurt anyone since Hatton, Im not saying he is powder, more that Margarito is one tough SOB, he Took a battering from Manny, and was never gonna get knocked out vs Cotto, if the eye wasnt such an obvious problem he sees 12 rounds.

I cant see Mayweather adequately hurting a guy who is willing to die in the ring.

kingraf wrote:Other than an opportunistic liberty punch at that idiot Ortiz, Mayweather hasnt really hurt anyone since Hatton, Im not saying he is powder, more that Margarito is one tough SOB, he Took a battering from Manny, and was never gonna get knocked out vs Cotto, if the eye wasnt such an obvious problem he sees 12 rounds.

I cant see Mayweather adequately hurting a guy who is willing to die in the ring.

Agreed but floyd won't lose more than 3 rounds

I cant see him losing one. Thats why Im asking how big a hitter Tony is, because I think he walks down enough to create a few openings, but does he hit big enough to put Mayweather to sleep? If both men are on their feet after 12, its obviously 119-109 120-108 120-108.

Seriously though the guy is coming to the end of a career which in length and opposition is only matched by Ali, Louis and Robbo.........

We can argue whether he belongs in the top 10.........

Let's just enjoy a guy who we'll probably never see the like of again and toast a wonderful career and talent..

Nah!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Seriously though the guy is coming to the end of a career which in length and opposition is only matched by Ali, Louis and Robbo.........

We can argue whether he belongs in the top 10.........

Let's just enjoy a guy who we'll probably never see the like of again and toast a wonderful career and talent..

Yup, I will be tuning in tonight to enjoy a master at work.

With that being said, I do think there is value in criticising his recent opponents as for a guy with his talent, his resume over recent years is quetionable.

The Pacquiao thing has been butchered but I do think it looks worse for Floyd (than it does for Manny) having not fought him back in 2010 when it was a genuine mega/era defining fight and in my opinion, he could really do with a win over Canelo to cement his career. His career is awesome but a Canelo win would add weight to his ATG top ranking claims.

It's been a long time since a Floyd fight where there was anything close to a 50/50 debate about the winner...

It's like you said on a thread a few weeks back Truss, it's the opponents that make the resume and I think Floyd needs a big one before he retires.

Looking forward to watching him later, his skill set can only be admired!

Why would beating a 22 year old novice make his status better?

Who has Alvarez fought apart from trout?

It's like saying wladmir Klitshcko needs Tyson Fury to cement his legacy.

No he does not.

There are plent of fights that could cement it or better it:

Sergio Martinez
Manny Pacquiao

That's it.

Why the Saul Alvarez crap?

Who has and what has he done??

When he beats Saul people will claim that he beat a novice and should have fought Pac. If he goes up to MW and beats Sergio people will find other reasons to beat him with and ask why he isn't fighting Ward.

Floyd wasnt gonna beat Martinez at MW, at no stage.

Maybe LMW, not MW

The Alvarez "crap" is because he didnt fight Martinez (despite showing interest) or Manny.

kingraf wrote:Floyd wasnt gonna beat Martinez at MW, at no stage.

Wouldn't stop people from using that as a reason to beat Floyd with.

But if he doesnt fight Alvarez, like he didnt fight Pacquiao, then even more people will say - he should have fought Alvarez and he should have Pacquiao.

manos de piedra wrote:But if he doesnt fight Alvarez, like he didnt fight Pacquiao, then even more people will say - he should have fought Alvarez and he should have Pacquiao.

Exactly, thank you MdP, you got there first!

I'm not putting a downer on Floyd at all, the guy is phenomenal and a joy to watch. I'm saying that I think he should fight Canelo to shut people up and get more of them on his side.

Here's a guy (Canelo) who is being hyped up, is clearly beatable, and would make Floyd a whole load of cash whilst answering any lingering doubts...Why not do it, beat him and then ask, "ok, who else have you got?". Winner.

Just like he/they/whoever, should have done with Pacquiao. It's a crime for both of them that it never happened.

manos de piedra wrote:But if he doesnt fight Alvarez, like he didnt fight Pacquiao, then even more people will say - he should have fought Alvarez and he should have Pacquiao.

Agreed.

You guys are talking about a 130 pounder having to fight 154 pounders and upwards WTF??????

It's pee poor when you consider Duran's defeats to Sims at 160.....Hearns at 154 etc don't count against him.......

160 for Duran is the same as 154 for Floyd.....1 pound in it!!!!

Remember that!!

Floyd is a 154 champion. Duran was an average plodder above 154. Too much is made of the Davey Moore win and the Berkely win.

Not enough is made of the thumb in the first round that gave Davey one eye.......and the fact Barkley was average and robbed.

I had Duran winning against Berkley. But that is an irrelevance. Berkley was spanked in a round by Benn. In short Iran was tosh.

Duran is a modern day old timer in that his fans will create all manner of excuses to cover his short comings. Great boxer though and his record on its own stands alone against many others.

Nit picking is left to modern greats who definately challenge the sepia few ie SRL, RJJ and Floyd. Exciting face first greats will always be ranked higher than those who make boxing look easy and as a result win easily.

Which face first greats are ranked higher than Floyd, Az?

superflyweight wrote:Which face first greats are ranked higher than Floyd, Az?

Duran for one.

If you genuinely think Duran is a face first fighter then you should change your name to Spazania. Doesn't say much for your p4p greatest that he got his ass handed to him by "a face first" fighter operating above his best weight.

OK, aggressive fighters as opposed to slick boxers like those mentioned.

I genuinely think you underestimate how highly Floyd is ranked by most sensible observers.

It's also possible to rate a fighter without disparaging others.

I'm going by many here. To be honest I have no idea where 'sensible' observers rate him.

Who have I disparaged?

Duran for one. Robinson on your other thread.

I have not disparaged SRR. How on earth is ranking other boxers higher than he is a criticism of him? I think that proves a point I said. Ranking anyone higher is criticism.

I could go through that thread and copy and paste numerous disparaging comments. I can't be bothered and similarly I can't be bothered going through the equivalent of beating my head against a brick wall as you yet again deny things that are written in black and white.

Good night and good luck!