Pro12 Playoff 1; Ulster (1st) vs Scarlets (4th) at Ravenhill

First topic message reminder :

Got my ticket booked for this one- expecting a good game if the weather holds up! Scarlets will probably raise their game from their abject home display against Treviso. Having watched them this season, I have noticed that when things don't go well for them and they start making mistakes they tend to get frustrated and make more and more. It seems they once again succumbed to this malaise against an excellent Treviso side who are slowly and surely growing into a team that can contend for a Top Six placing. But at Ravenhill, there is little pressure on them and they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Totally different scenario.

Ulster were pretty poor for the first 40 minutes against Cardiff, no denying it, and will need an improved 80 minute display to see of the challenge of Scarlets and hopefully, in the event of a win, get primed to peak in the final two weeks later. Paddy Jackson has to return to the team at 10- a better defensive organiser and tackler, a more creative outhalf and it sees Pienaar return to his best position. Diack has to play too. Diack adds a great deal of balance to our backrow and I think dropping him to accommodate both Henderson and Williams would be a big mistake. Too unbalanced. Tuohy and Muller is a better balanced second row too, especially at lineout time, and Henderson hasn't been as impressive at lock as he has at 6. It seems like Henderson and Gilroy might both miss out- Gilroy maybe even not making the bench if Fridays selection is anything to go by, although I'd like to see him in there. Peter Nelson would be unfortunate to lose his place on the bench. In terms of impact subs, I actually think Tom Court can be a good impact sub coming on at loosehead. With Court, Henderson and Gilroy leading the charge from the bench in the second half hopefully we have enough to make it to our first ever Pro12 final.

Preferred Team;

1) Callum Black
2) Rory Best
3) John Afoa
4) Johann Muller (c)
5) Dan Tuohy
6) Robbie Diack
7) Chris Henry
8) Nick Williams
9) Ruan Pienaar
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Tommy Bowe
12) Stuart Olding
13) Darren Cave
14) Andrew Trimble
15) Jared Payne

16) Rob Herring 17) Tom Court 18) Declan Fitzpatrick 19) Iain Henderson 20) Sean Doyle 21) Paul Marshall 22) Michael Allen 23) Craig Gilroy

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Very happy with the win!

Williams, Diack and Best were just playing like men possessed. Superb game from the 3 of them.

Commiserations to the Scarlets, but lo and behold the Scarlets lose yet again and the referee is at fault. But hey, what else is new.

Check the teams the ref complainers support! Not too many of them are Scarlets fans, the Scarlets fans have all said the right team won, please don't add to your injury (lots of them tonight on the pitch) with insult by calling us sour losers over comments of other non scarlet fans.

The Saint wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Well what a surprise the hand picked ref won Ulster the game.

Shocking! even as far telling a Scarlets scrum five meters out from the Ulster line going for a push over try to "use it" WTF?

Every Scarlet ruck formed he called "use it" immediately,
the trip,
the close line on Davies with the try line in sigh,
the ball slapped down on the Ulster line,
Tom Court didn't even get over the line,
Andrew Trimble assaulting someone with their arms pined down thn backing off when he fought back.
Sealing off
In the side.

SHOCKER!

Here's a man telling you how it is Rodders, Gibson, Neil, etc.

Nah, view's probably just a bit stressed because he's ran out of creatine or something. A wee drip down to holland and barrett and he'll be back on top form ...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

rodders wrote:

The Saint wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Well what a surprise the hand picked ref won Ulster the game.

Shocking! even as far telling a Scarlets scrum five meters out from the Ulster line going for a push over try to "use it" WTF?

Every Scarlet ruck formed he called "use it" immediately,
the trip,
the close line on Davies with the try line in sigh,
the ball slapped down on the Ulster line,
Tom Court didn't even get over the line,
Andrew Trimble assaulting someone with their arms pined down thn backing off when he fought back.
Sealing off
In the side.

SHOCKER!

Here's a man telling you how it is Rodders, Gibson, Neil, etc.

Nah, view's probably just a bit stressed because he's ran out of creatine or something. A wee drip down to holland and barrett and he'll be back on top form ...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Exactly. This wasn't like another night at Ravenhill a few years ago (I forgot the ref/score but he was a rookie Scottish ref who was diabolical) where the ref decided the game. Ulster were dominant, and they undeniably had a 'home' ref. Had Ulster not had such great leeway at the breakdown, and had to keep playing hard past the hour, perhaps the scoreline would have been greater, Ulster picking out the corners for the full 80. It's quite possible to criticise atrocious officiating and not equate it as the reason for your side losing the game.

Ok we all know the ref had not a good game, but a few things that seem to have been missed
Owens lineouts were no where near straight (hope he is ok though)
Neither Trimble nor Williams were innocent, however Trimble cleaned him out then had some slaps then Williams punched him there is a difference
2 scarlets players were offside on their line for Courts not try try so it would/should have been a pen try and 2 yellows anyways
Davies at the end on more than one occssion stamped on Ulster players
Now the ref had a bad game, but he certainly wa snot the only reason Scarlets lost until the point when Ulster took their foot off the gas about 20+ points up they never even had a sniff for the line so please stop just blaming the ref and we have played welsh sides many times with Welsh refs so don't use the whole irish ref irish team thing

Hope all those injured for Scarlets are OK and that they rebuild and come back even stronger next year.
SUFTUM

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Very happy with the win!

Williams, Diack and Best were just playing like men possessed. Superb game from the 3 of them.

Commiserations to the Scarlets, but lo and behold the Scarlets lose yet again and the referee is at fault. But hey, what else is new.

Check the teams the ref complainers support! Not too many of them are Scarlets fans, the Scarlets fans have all said the right team won, please don't add to your injury (lots of them tonight on the pitch) with insult by calling us sour losers over comments of other non scarlet fans.

Apologies Scarlets. Enjoy your night.

This game showed why Diack should have started against Saracens.

Disapointing game really, expected more from the Scarlets backline but clearly some of them weren't 100% fit.
Also can someone tell me why Phil John an Samson Lee were the starting props?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

The Saint wrote:Perhaps some Irish should think back to when they were last beaten by Wales in the 6 Nations before you start making all these claims. Oh and there's the last Pro12 final where Leinster plus the ref were dominated by the Ospreys; the post match discussion being the Leinstermen blaming the ref for the loss!

You welsh have funny memories.

I remember the Leinster fans questioning the lack of control the referee had on the scrum (the scrum was almost a 50/50) but ultimately accepting that they were beaten by a better team. I literally can't remember even one fan blaming the referee for the loss.

Contrast that with practically every time the Scarlets lose. It is incredibly tedious.

And you Irish are so hypocritical. I can remember Ospreys annihilating Leinster in the scrum and being on the wrong end of the decisions. The fans were rueing that and claimed it was the reason they lost, and because they weren't trying as hard as they would try in the Heineken Cup of course...
I remember Munster getting thrashed a couple weeks earlier and you had a few things to say about the referee . But yes, only the Welsh blame the referee. The Irish don't. The English, Scottish, Dutch, Saffa, Kiwi, Ozzie, Italian don't blame the ref. Just the Welsh!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Very happy with the win!

Williams, Diack and Best were just playing like men possessed. Superb game from the 3 of them.

Commiserations to the Scarlets, but lo and behold the Scarlets lose yet again and the referee is at fault. But hey, what else is new.

Check the teams the ref complainers support! Not too many of them are Scarlets fans, the Scarlets fans have all said the right team won, please don't add to your injury (lots of them tonight on the pitch) with insult by calling us sour losers over comments of other non scarlet fans.

Apologies Scarlets. Enjoy your night.

True SS. Don't let the facts open the eyes of a hypocrite though. Might cause him to fall on his own sword.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Granted we may have well lost the game as Ulster played well. But It was not a fair contest because of Rolland. The man has something in his head about the Welsh and they shall not win.

As a Bye he was advertised on the scrum V web site under officials for the match as French. Well please tell me what is he Irish or French

I thought Rowland was MOTM for Ulster,

Last year the Ospreys had a home game against Munster at the same stage last year and Rowland was the ref, who selects the refs? I have not checked the ref for Leinster and Glasgow if the ref is Clancy there is something wrong with the way refs are appointed..

Scarlets ended with the team that should have started hence the better team won on the day. Williams at 8 proved too powerful but could have had a yellow for a shoulder charge. Could/should have been a few yellows, how the line judge missed the trip is beyond me.

Good luck in the final Ulster, if Leinster get there the ref should be the same for both sides..

I'm not a Scarlets fan and I don't claim it was because of the referee Ulster won. I do think all those decisions stopped it from becoming a contest though, a contest Ulster would have just about won. Rolland didn't officiate any Wales games in the 6 Nations but I remember there being a lot of complaints from the fans who got to see him in action.

Ifandorbut wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Granted we may have well lost the game as Ulster played well. But It was not a fair contest because of Rolland. The man has something in his head about the Welsh and they shall not win.

As a Bye he was advertised on the scrum V web site under officials for the match as French. Well please tell me what is he Irish or French

We were denied the right to lose fairly granted.

Also haven't seen him down as a french ref, but on page 1 of this thread I was cheeky when I posted the Scarlets team and officials, changing the Ire on him to Fra, you sure thats not where you saw it?

The Saint wrote:
And you Irish are so hypocritical.

No we aren't, we just prefer when the referee is bias against the opposition .

Rolland is IRFU.

Dragging the game back to rugby for a second, I thought the Scarlets bench had the better of the Ulster bench, or was it a case of foot off the gas? Ulster fans, any thoughts?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Dragging the game back to rugby for a second, I thought the Scarlets bench had the better of the Ulster bench, or was it a case of foot off the gas? Ulster fans, any thoughts?

When Fitzpatrick went off for us and Adriaanse came on the for the Scarlets I thought our scrum fell to pieces, which is disappointing given how good Lutton looked on his last outing.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

No not the game, just 14 points.
Poliicaly correct is one thing, there are other descriptions that could be classed as more appropriate at the moment though.

miaow wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Exactly. This wasn't like another night at Ravenhill a few years ago (I forgot the ref/score but he was a rookie Scottish ref who was diabolical) where the ref decided the game. Ulster were dominant, and they undeniably had a 'home' ref. Had Ulster not had such great leeway at the breakdown, and had to keep playing hard past the hour, perhaps the scoreline would have been greater, Ulster picking out the corners for the full 80. It's quite possible to criticise atrocious officiating and not equate it as the reason for your side losing the game.

+1

Scarlets would not have won, but I honestly feel there would have been a more entertaining contest with a less bias ref.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Dragging the game back to rugby for a second, I thought the Scarlets bench had the better of the Ulster bench, or was it a case of foot off the gas? Ulster fans, any thoughts?

When Fitzpatrick went off for us and Adriaanse came on the for the Scarlets I thought our scrum fell to pieces, which is disappointing given how good Lutton looked on his last outing.

In Lutton's defence the Scarlets signed Adriaanse to be our scrumaging cure so its fair to say he is a class scrumaging prop, only misses out to Samson due to fitness and workrate out of the set piece.

Any Irish fans on here that can genuinely say Rolland is neutral when reffing a Welsh team need to wach more of the games he is involved in.
His biggest problem though is he is not intelligent enough to know when he doesn't actually need to exercise his bias.
Ulster would have won that game tonight on the strength of the pack and the best 9 in NH rugby.
All he did was prevent a good competition.
Personally I don't like been robbed of the entetainment value of a competetive game.

It does seem odd that, in the play off stage of a four nation competition, a referee from one of the countries not involved cannot be sought.

From a Scarlets perspective, I know the tight 5 needs to improve, and that platform wins you games, and that's what Easterby is trying to instill, but John Barclay will be a big bonus next year. Someone who can turn ball over when the opposition are going forward will be invaluable, it's something we haven't really had for years, since perhaps Gavin Thomas left.

I think it goes without saying it's been a poor year for the backline. Jon Davies's handling goes to pot when he's left as the creative midfielder. I really hope Gareth Owen kicks on and can really play at this level. I think people forget how important Priestland is as well, Owen Williams plays far too deep, and, although I think he has potential as a good jinking 10 if he stood flatter, he's not a great distributor, which Rhys is. Steve Shingler will be interesting, he looked a good runner of the ball, I know he's played in the midfield in England, so with Priestland presumably back in the Wales fold in the Autumn, should give him the opportunity to play a few positions.

Disappointing end to the season, should be a good final whoever Ulster meet. Well done, the power really told in the end. Also, the signing of Ruan Pienaar has to be one of the best in this league for several years, he is world class.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Ifandorbut wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Granted we may have well lost the game as Ulster played well. But It was not a fair contest because of Rolland. The man has something in his head about the Welsh and they shall not win.

As a Bye he was advertised on the scrum V web site under officials for the match as French. Well please tell me what is he Irish or French

We were denied the right to lose fairly granted.

Also haven't seen him down as a french ref, but on page 1 of this thread I was cheeky when I posted the Scarlets team and officials, changing the Ire on him to Fra, you sure thats not where you saw it?

May well have been? I flip back and fore and my memory is not what it used to be.

Guys,

Ulster very much deserved their victory but Rolland (and the rest of them) were an absolute disgrace from start to finish. Clownshoes Clancy would have reffed it better ffs

I thought the game was very entertaining. Even had the handbags

Scarlets played to the end

A definite lack of class in some comments posted here, but the passion for the sport we love can do funny things to perspective sometimes.

Can't wait to see who we play in the final. Really looking forward to what should be a great game tomorrow.

miaow it could have been an italian or scottish ref, but lets face it they are not exactly good refs either. Both assistant refs and tmo were scottish

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Guys,

Ulster very much deserved their victory but Rolland (and the rest of them) were an absolute disgrace from start to finish. Clownshoes Clancy would have reffed it better ffs

+1

Anyway,

Back to the rugby.

Asbo,

I'm not sure how much of the disruption to Ulster was caused by the bench and how much was the long stoppages due to those unfortunate injuries.

I'm hoping it was the later although that would not explain the scrum.

Apparently Ken Owens has been taken to hospital, hope hes ok, it may well just be precautionary as it was a neck injury.

not a great performance by scarlets. shame about all the injuries and the decisions that went against them but that's the game we love...

Will the blatant trip not be cited ?
Hope Ken Owens os ok - bloody good player and deecnt lad too

Rolland wasn't great tonight but Ulster legitimately won a lot of penalties on the ground by isolating the ball carrier and competing legally- we know he's very quick to whistle that and we played for it and we got it. It seems like teams never get credit for playing the ref and that was one of the things I was happy about. In terms of our gameplan there were obviously things about the Scarlets we targeted and things about Rolland we targeted and both paid dividends.

I don't really think Rolland had a good game at all, but maybe one of the things between a team that wins these knockout games and one that doesn't is the team that goes further is canny enough to make a bad ref work in their favour.

Anyway, for 55 minutes we won the scrum, the breakdown and the lineouts- controlled possession and territory. You're gonna win the game if you do that. We kind of had the game by the scruff of the neck but when we got out to 22 points ahead we just started coasting and we emptied the bench. So disappointing not to kick on but the job is done and we'll be fresh for the Final. Happy out.

Concerned maybe Trimble will be cited, but doubt anyone else will be. So hopefully John Afoa and Craig Gilroy are back fit.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Will the blatant trip not be cited ?
Hope Ken Owens os ok - bloody good player and deecnt lad too

YC at best, c21st, so no citing - could've been an 'extended' trailing leg, I suppose?

MrsP wrote:Anyway,

Back to the rugby.

Asbo,

I'm not sure how much of the disruption to Ulster was caused by the bench and how much was the long stoppages due to those unfortunate injuries.

I'm hoping it was the later although that would not explain the scrum.

I thought the Scarlets bench offered more intensity in a pretty much lost cause?

Definitely thought Scarlets got their team selection wrong. They had a bench which was stronger than their starters. Came on to a lost cause.

We took off a number of key players that hobbled our momentum in turn.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Will the blatant trip not be cited ?
Hope Ken Owens os ok - bloody good player and deecnt lad too

Don't think it's a citing offense, but it was blatant, and not the smartest thing to do. These things happen though.

Yep, Owens is a good player, and hope he's ok, along with Earle who really didn't know where he was after the knock.

Oh, I agree. I was looking at it from an Ulster bench POV though.

I wonder did our front row suffer because Tuohy went off?

Adriaanse and Gareth Davies were the main factors in the Scarlets bench starting to turn things around. Both definitely should have started, probably Timani as well who when he came on looked like about the only Scarlets forward who could front up to Ulster in the loose.

MrsP wrote:Oh, I agree. I was looking at it from an Ulster bench POV though.

I wonder did our front row suffer because Tuohy went off?

I think Ricky Lutton was in trouble against their sub loosehead and Timani added some more weight to their pack. Plus some complacency sneaking in.

Watching the interviews, agree with Anscombe and Best that we should have kicked on and ruthlessly hammered our advantage home.

But Scarlets showed a lot of heart to deliver some good scores for their fans. Two weeks time, we play that intensity for 80 minutes and we bring this trophy home.

Gibson wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

Gibson wrote:

rodders wrote:Hi I've just realised Rolland is yer man who sent off Warbs! The barsteward! He hates the Welsh!

Ja. True. But not as much as the Welsh hate themselves.

Me? I blame the English. For everything.

No surprise there then, guess you just need someone to blame.

I guess this is where you claim to have been trying to be smart/ sarcastic, etc.........

Possibly best to think and work it out, rather than guess your life away bud.

That would be a Quantum-Leap. And not just for you, but for Rugby-kind.

Love you. Givvis a cwytch. Gowan, ya know ya want to.

Nothing much to think about, all pretty obvious really, gloat while u can cos there never be a home based ref for the internationals. kind of sums it up really.

MrsP wrote:Oh, I agree. I was looking at it from an Ulster bench POV though.

I wonder did our front row suffer because Tuohy went off?

Think it was a combination of things, Mrs P, but DF going off made things more difficult I believe. RP switching to 10 with Small Parcel coming on seemed to have an immediate impact in the negative. Having said that; the time off during injuries knocked Ulster off their stride a bit too.

rodders wrote:

The Saint wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Well what a surprise the hand picked ref won Ulster the game.

Shocking! even as far telling a Scarlets scrum five meters out from the Ulster line going for a push over try to "use it" WTF?

Every Scarlet ruck formed he called "use it" immediately,
the trip,
the close line on Davies with the try line in sigh,
the ball slapped down on the Ulster line,
Tom Court didn't even get over the line,
Andrew Trimble assaulting someone with their arms pined down thn backing off when he fought back.
Sealing off
In the side.

SHOCKER!

Here's a man telling you how it is Rodders, Gibson, Neil, etc.

Nah, view's probably just a bit stressed because he's ran out of creatine or something. A wee drip down to holland and barrett and he'll be back on top form ...

Actually got some creatine on Wednesday no Holland and Barret crap goes in this temple/body, only pure grade.

Anyway back to the game, Rolland is a tool.

I did say hours ago, that Easterby has been getting his selections wrong all year! For all the praise Earle/Snyman get for their work rate they don't seem very good at going forward or pushing in the scrum. Ball and Timani add a lot of power, I certainly think Ball should be a starter from now on. I can't stress how great a scrum-half Gareth Davies is; but the Scarlets management and fans do not agree. And finally seeing as neither centre can pass maybe Maule or Owen should partner JD. Maule is a strong centre who can go forward, stay on his feet and offload; while Owen is very skilful and an excellent distributor. The abundance of riches in the backline should be put to better use because some players seem to be picked on reputation.

Jhamer25 wrote:

Welsh sides never get beat its always the ref the weather wrong time of the month.

Did you watch that game. I hate people criticising the referee for the score all the time but that performance by the ref was unprofessional. Even the touch judges were poor. Both officials were closer than Ken Owens when the trip occurred yet Ken Owens saw it (why he reacted the way he did and then told the ref, who then apologised) and Allan and the linesman didn't. Love sacks

It's a general point the welsh constantly moan about refs. Rolland may not of had the greatest of games but he was poor for both teams the scarlets gota away with a lot of ruck offences slowing the ball down not scruming straight. The best team won

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The ref didn't cost the Scarlets the game! We were not good enough simple as.

Always liked this guy. Can be a contrary feicer like me, but always tells it like it is.

Sospan fach!

Best team won. Plenty to work on. End of story. Life goes on.

viewtothegym wrote:

rodders wrote:

The Saint wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Well what a surprise the hand picked ref won Ulster the game.

Shocking! even as far telling a Scarlets scrum five meters out from the Ulster line going for a push over try to "use it" WTF?

Every Scarlet ruck formed he called "use it" immediately,
the trip,
the close line on Davies with the try line in sigh,
the ball slapped down on the Ulster line,
Tom Court didn't even get over the line,
Andrew Trimble assaulting someone with their arms pined down thn backing off when he fought back.
Sealing off
In the side.

SHOCKER!

Here's a man telling you how it is Rodders, Gibson, Neil, etc.

Nah, view's probably just a bit stressed because he's ran out of creatine or something. A wee drip down to holland and barrett and he'll be back on top form ...

Actually got some creatine on Wednesday no Holland and Barret crap goes in this temple/body, only pure grade.

Anyway back to the game, Rolland is a tool.

Cheers man. Just spat my vino out all over the screen. Superb.

tecphobe wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:

Welsh sides never get beat its always the ref the weather wrong time of the month.

Did you watch that game. I hate people criticising the referee for the score all the time but that performance by the ref was unprofessional. Even the touch judges were poor. Both officials were closer than Ken Owens when the trip occurred yet Ken Owens saw it (why he reacted the way he did and then told the ref, who then apologised) and Allan and the linesman didn't. Love sacks

It's a general point the welsh constantly moan about refs. Rolland may not of had the greatest of games but he was poor for both teams the scarlets gota away with a lot of ruck offences slowing the ball down not scruming straight. The best team won

Just like the Irish and Leinster fans moan about the ref when Ireland lose to Wales and Leinster to Ospreys. The Irish constantly moan about refs despite always getting the rub of the 'green'