Pro12 Playoff 1; Ulster (1st) vs Scarlets (4th) at Ravenhill

by **Notch** Sun 05 May 2013, 9:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

Got my ticket booked for this one- expecting a good game if the weather holds up! Scarlets will probably raise their game from their abject home display against Treviso. Having watched them this season, I have noticed that when things don't go well for them and they start making mistakes they tend to get frustrated and make more and more. It seems they once again succumbed to this malaise against an excellent Treviso side who are slowly and surely growing into a team that can contend for a Top Six placing. But at Ravenhill, there is little pressure on them and they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Totally different scenario.

Ulster were pretty poor for the first 40 minutes against Cardiff, no denying it, and will need an improved 80 minute display to see of the challenge of Scarlets and hopefully, in the event of a win, get primed to peak in the final two weeks later. Paddy Jackson has to return to the team at 10- a better defensive organiser and tackler, a more creative outhalf and it sees Pienaar return to his best position. Diack has to play too. Diack adds a great deal of balance to our backrow and I think dropping him to accommodate both Henderson and Williams would be a big mistake. Too unbalanced. Tuohy and Muller is a better balanced second row too, especially at lineout time, and Henderson hasn't been as impressive at lock as he has at 6. It seems like Henderson and Gilroy might both miss out- Gilroy maybe even not making the bench if Fridays selection is anything to go by, although I'd like to see him in there. Peter Nelson would be unfortunate to lose his place on the bench. In terms of impact subs, I actually think Tom Court can be a good impact sub coming on at loosehead. With Court, Henderson and Gilroy leading the charge from the bench in the second half hopefully we have enough to make it to our first ever Pro12 final.

Preferred Team;

1) Callum Black
2) Rory Best
3) John Afoa
4) Johann Muller (c)
5) Dan Tuohy
6) Robbie Diack
7) Chris Henry
8) Nick Williams
9) Ruan Pienaar
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Tommy Bowe
12) Stuart Olding
13) Darren Cave
14) Andrew Trimble
15) Jared Payne

16) Rob Herring 17) Tom Court 18) Declan Fitzpatrick 19) Iain Henderson 20) Sean Doyle 21) Paul Marshall 22) Michael Allen 23) Craig Gilroy

by thebluesmancometh Sat 11 May 2013, 7:02 pm

viewtothegym wrote:nope a mirror is a huge distraction for a powerlifter, form check by using the video on your phone, creatine can dehydrate but it never has really effected me that way.

I need to know 2 things...

Mirrors distract you but holding your phone while your lifting doesn't??? Imagine how much more you'd lift with 2 hands!

And how exactly do you know that creatine doesn't dehydrate you and effect performance? Endurance athletes would notice pretty easily, but the more concise and extreme the sport the less you could tell!

Also are you lifting to gain, compete or just for funsies? What injuries have you had recently?

by Guest Sat 11 May 2013, 7:06 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:nope a mirror is a huge distraction for a powerlifter, form check by using the video on your phone, creatine can dehydrate but it never has really effected me that way.

Just spat cider all over the computer!

good for you

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 11 May 2013, 7:07 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:nope a mirror is a huge distraction for a powerlifter, form check by using the video on your phone, creatine can dehydrate but it never has really effected me that way.

I need to know 2 things...

Mirrors distract you but holding your phone while your lifting doesn't??? Imagine how much more you'd lift with 2 hands!

And how exactly do you know that creatine doesn't dehydrate you and effect performance? Endurance athletes would notice pretty easily, but the more concise and extreme the sport the less you could tell!

Also are you lifting to gain, compete or just for funsies? What injuries have you had recently?

He's using Pantene, so bad hair probs

by Guest Sat 11 May 2013, 8:33 pm

I do it as a hobby i don't compete, easy to place a phone on a bench 3meters away and press record, creatine does increase strength and as far as dehydration i drink at least a litre of water during a work out.
Trust me i know what im doing been training since 1995 then started powerlifting in 2008,iam pretty good at it.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 11 May 2013, 8:34 pm

viewtothegym wrote:I do it as a hobby i don't compete, easy to place a phone on a bench 3meters away and press record, creatine does increase strength and as far as dehydration i drink at least a litre of water during a work out.
Trust me i know what im doing been training since 1995 then started powerlifting in 2008,iam pretty good at it.

You still here? Shouldn't you be down the ~~salon~~ gym

by Guest Sat 11 May 2013, 8:36 pm

trained legs this morning

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 11 May 2013, 9:33 pm

viewtothegym wrote:trained legs this morning

Do they do tricks? Like jump thru hoops and Poopie?

by **rodders** Sat 11 May 2013, 9:57 pm

View

by flyhalffactory Sat 11 May 2013, 10:15 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:trained legs this morning

Do they do tricks? Like jump thru hoops and Poopie?

by The Saint Sat 11 May 2013, 10:52 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:I do it as a hobby i don't compete, easy to place a phone on a bench 3meters away and press record, creatine does increase strength and as far as dehydration i drink at least a litre of water during a work out.
Trust me i know what im doing been training since 1995 then started powerlifting in 2008,iam pretty good at it.

You still here? Shouldn't you be down the ~~salon~~ gym

You must have confused View with your average Welsh backline player for a moment.

by The Saint Sat 11 May 2013, 10:55 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:nope a mirror is a huge distraction for a powerlifter, form check by using the video on your phone, creatine can dehydrate but it never has really effected me that way.

I need to know 2 things...

Mirrors distract you but holding your phone while your lifting doesn't??? Imagine how much more you'd lift with 2 hands!

And how exactly do you know that creatine doesn't dehydrate you and effect performance? Endurance athletes would notice pretty easily, but the more concise and extreme the sport the less you could tell!

Also are you lifting to gain, compete or just for funsies? What injuries have you had recently?

Mirrors don't distract me in the gym. If it wasn't for mirrors I wouldn't be able to see how good I looked in my vest and shorts... I agree on the creatine point though, and I find it gives me muscle cramp.
I tell you what View, you should try NO-xplode, that's a hell of a kick.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 11 May 2013, 10:58 pm

The Saint wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:nope a mirror is a huge distraction for a powerlifter, form check by using the video on your phone, creatine can dehydrate but it never has really effected me that way.

I need to know 2 things...

Mirrors distract you but holding your phone while your lifting doesn't??? Imagine how much more you'd lift with 2 hands!

And how exactly do you know that creatine doesn't dehydrate you and effect performance? Endurance athletes would notice pretty easily, but the more concise and extreme the sport the less you could tell!

Also are you lifting to gain, compete or just for funsies? What injuries have you had recently?

Mirrors don't distract me in the gym. If it wasn't for mirrors I wouldn't be able to see how good I looked in my vest and shorts... I agree on the creatine point though, and I find it gives me muscle cramp.
I tell you what View, you should try NO-xplode, that's a hell of a kick.

by Guest Sat 11 May 2013, 11:30 pm

Had that Noxplode once and it made me really agitated i hated it.

100ofus no my legs don't do tricks they just lift heavy weight and look great in shorts.

by **rodders** Sat 11 May 2013, 11:49 pm

viewtothegym wrote:Had that Noxplode once and it made me really agitated i hated it.

Feic a laid back soul like yerself! Bad stuff! Wink

by TJ1 Sun 12 May 2013, 12:04 am

Just watched the game - dunno what the whinging about the ref is about. Missed loads of offsides from the Scarlets for example - missed a subtle trailing leg perhaps - the only bad mistake.

by Gibson Sun 12 May 2013, 1:35 am

TJ wrote:Just watched the game - dunno what the whinging about the ref is about. Missed loads of offsides from the Scarlets for example - missed a subtle trailing leg perhaps - the only bad mistake.

The cold light of reason. guinness

by Taffineastbourne Sun 12 May 2013, 10:03 am

TJ wrote:Just watched the game - dunno what the whinging about the ref is about. Missed loads of offsides from the Scarlets for example - missed a subtle trailing leg perhaps - the only bad mistake.

Then you must be a top level Scottish ref coz they don't know what they are doing either! laughing

by TJ1 Sun 12 May 2013, 10:49 am

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 11:59 am

viewtothegym wrote:I do it as a hobby i don't compete, easy to place a phone on a bench 3meters away and press record, creatine does increase strength and as far as dehydration i drink at least a litre of water during a work out.
Trust me i know what im doing been training since 1995 then started powerlifting in 2008,iam pretty good at it.

A combination of Creatine, a disciplined diet and a very strict hydration strategy CAN increase strength, but dehydration at a cellular level can not be countered by drinking water during your session, you need a very strict strategy in place to combat the negative effects of creatine!!!

If you want some advice gimme a PM mate

by The Saint Sun 12 May 2013, 1:23 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
TJ wrote:Just watched the game - dunno what the whinging about the ref is about. Missed loads of offsides from the Scarlets for example - missed a subtle trailing leg perhaps - the only bad mistake.
Then you must be a top level Scottish ref coz they don't know what they are doing either!

The game thread has moved on since so don't drag it back up with your usual anti-Wales BS. There's a top lad

.

by **Notch** Sun 12 May 2013, 1:25 pm

Why is it having an opinion is always anti-Welsh on here?

by The Saint Sun 12 May 2013, 1:28 pm

Notch wrote:Why is it having an opinion is always anti-Welsh on here?

It isn't Notch, don't act silly. I was referring to the particular poster.
On that note, why is it us welsh aren't allowed to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our players without being told we're showing off because our players aren't being worshipped as gods or deities?

by Artful_Dodger Sun 12 May 2013, 1:41 pm

by Seagultaf Sun 12 May 2013, 1:43 pm

neilthom7 wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:Ok so this whole the ref ruined the result well heres a wee break down I managed to come up with
IF the ref had got every decision right then
No try for Bowe because Diack Tripped Scarlets player, Diack Probably goes to the bin Agree, would the Scarlet's score against 14 men...probably say just one penalty
Court try is adjudged short but the 2 Scarlets players quite clearly offside stoped him 1 metre from their own line professional foul called both players to bin and penalty try awarded Disagree lost the ball and short no try
Trimble get yellow maybe red for the slaps or punches or whatever that was from him Williams gets Red for the punches. If Trimble cant take it don't dish it out, yellow each fair.
Scarlet's get close to Ulster line and lose posession twice due to illegal stamps from scrumhalf this may also have resulted in yellow card Two kickable penalties or chance of a converted try against 14 men.
Final score presuming no other scores are scored during yellow cards etc and that Ulster still take their foot of the gas
Ulster 21-17 Scarlets anybody think this is wrong?
I make that 14 - 27!

The truth is that Ulster would probably have raised their game and prevented the Scarlet's comeback, but we will never know because the ref prevented a fair contest.

What mate your maths is off the stamps from scrumhalf were scarlets scrumhalf and agree or disagree on courts ground he was quite clearly stoped by 2 offside men im sorry but there just is no argument there, also whether trimble can take it or not is not an indication of rules Williams by law would ahve been sent of so probably would trimble if they were interpreted as punches. by your maths on yellows etc Ulster would have won by even more mate

I didn't see any stamp from any scrumhalf's, apart from a few nudges by the Scarlet's scrum half for Ulster players lying over the ball, I though you were talking about the two occasions that the Ulster scrum half kicked the ball out of the Scarlet's scrum. Hence 6 points to the Scarlet's for 2 penalties.

Williams and Trimble exchanged handbags, Trimble started it and Williams finished it and two yellows was the right call, end of story.

Despite my maths being pretty conservative, I still doubt that Scarlet's would have won as Ulster have been the better side all season and certainly deserve to be in the Final. What I am saying is that the Scarlet's cause on the night was severely hampered by atrocious refereeing, so we will never know what the result would have been if a competent ref had been in charge.

by The Saint Sun 12 May 2013, 1:50 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
I didn't see any stamp from any scrumhalf's, apart from a few nudges by the Scarlet's scrum half for Ulster players lying over the ball, I though you were talking about the two occasions that the Ulster scrum half kicked the ball out of the Scarlet's scrum. Hence 6 points to the Scarlet's for 2 penalties.

That's what the team does to good effect, lie all over the ball and put their hands up in the air. When the Ospreys last came to Ravenhill they were ferocious at the breakdown and that was dealt with effectively. Ulster fans had a few things to say about the ref if I remember correctly Whistle

,but when the welsh have a comment we're seen as incorrect and bitter. The Scarlets back-row of three 6's could not compete. Easterby left a pacific islander on the bench who shows the exact type of commitment and ferocity that was required.

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 1:53 pm

The Saint wrote:
Notch wrote:Why is it having an opinion is always anti-Welsh on here?

It isn't Notch, don't act silly. I was referring to the particular poster.
On that note, why is it us welsh aren't allowed to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our players without being told we're showing off because our players aren't being worshipped as gods or deities?

I see this post has risen to levels above my IQ..........

by MrsP Sun 12 May 2013, 2:00 pm

Saint,

I think you need to see the difference between;

(1) Fans complaining about some calls not going their way, or the ref missing the occasional thing,

and

(2) Fans suggesting that the ref was biased so almost every call was deliberately against them in a conspiracy to exsure they wont win.

There is a huge gulf between those 2 situations. The first is just fans being fans, the second is something much worse.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 2:01 pm

MrsP wrote:Saint,

I think you need to see the difference between;

(1) Fans complaining about some calls not going their way, or the ref missing the occasional thing,

and

(2) Fans suggesting that the ref was biased so almost every call was deliberately against them in a conspiracy to exsure they wont win.

There is a huge gulf between those 2 situations. The first is just fans being fans, the second is something much worse.

But only worse due to the ref being unfairly put in that position, switch Rolland around with the Scot running the line and there is no issue

by The Saint Sun 12 May 2013, 2:03 pm

MrsP,

.
It is easy for some to bring out the term 'bias' when the ref is IRFU though. But Rolland is more professional than that, he just had a really bad night!

by MrsP Sun 12 May 2013, 2:04 pm

Blues,

i know you don't remember the game I referred to before when the ref was Scottish (I think) and the outcry was even worse. The coach was crying in his post match interview and Scrum V dedicated a section of the program to the debacle.

The nationality of the ref didn't seem to matter then.

by TJ1 Sun 12 May 2013, 2:04 pm

The Saint wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
TJ wrote:Just watched the game - dunno what the whinging about the ref is about. Missed loads of offsides from the Scarlets for example - missed a subtle trailing leg perhaps - the only bad mistake.
Then you must be a top level Scottish ref coz they don't know what they are doing either!

The game thread has moved on since so don't drag it back up with your usual anti-Wales BS. There's a top lad .

What anti welsh BS. Once again a paranoid poster who cannot understand that critism of welsh players and or fans does not equal anti welsh bias.

I just hate whinging about refs and said similar on the Glasgow / Leinster thread. I am anti whinging that its all the refs fault when you got beat especially when to neutral eyes it is not. Scarlets could easily have had penalty try against and 2 yellows for the two guys who tackled from off side on the goalline. Refs mistakes work both ways - and this can be seen if you are two eyed. One eyed fans only see the decisions that go against them.

Now grow up and stop claiming you were only beaten because of the ref and that anytime anyone has an opinion you do not share it is anti wales bias. it makes you look childish and stupid

by **Notch** Sun 12 May 2013, 2:06 pm

I think saying a Leinsterman like Rolland is biased towards Ulster is like saying Nigel Owens is biased towards England- no love lost between old enemies.

I don't think Rolland is biased against Ulster at all btw. I have not even the slightest inclination to think that that is even close to being true. Same as I think claims of his 'bias' against the Scarlets are nonsense. But in Irish rugby, it's provincial allegiance first 90% of the time.

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 2:07 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
MrsP wrote:Saint,

I think you need to see the difference between;

(1) Fans complaining about some calls not going their way, or the ref missing the occasional thing,

and

(2) Fans suggesting that the ref was biased so almost every call was deliberately against them in a conspiracy to exsure they wont win.

There is a huge gulf between those 2 situations. The first is just fans being fans, the second is something much worse.

But only worse due to the ref being unfairly put in that position, switch Rolland around with the Scot running the line and there is no issue

What issue?

by **Notch** Sun 12 May 2013, 2:12 pm

TJ wrote:Now grow up and stop claiming... that anytime anyone has an opinion you do not share it is anti wales bias. it makes you look childish and stupid

Indeed

Haven't seen anyone mention Ulsters disallowed first try. You know the one we scored off a beautiful cross kick only to see the ref pull play back for the fight off the ball between Trimble and Williams, before giving the penalty the wrong way. Typical Leinster bias devil

Just cos it was the right decision to bring play back doesn't mean they aren't out to get us, after all
Whistle

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 12 May 2013, 3:00 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:Ok so this whole the ref ruined the result well heres a wee break down I managed to come up with
IF the ref had got every decision right then
No try for Bowe because Diack Tripped Scarlets player, Diack Probably goes to the bin Agree, would the Scarlet's score against 14 men...probably say just one penalty
Court try is adjudged short but the 2 Scarlets players quite clearly offside stoped him 1 metre from their own line professional foul called both players to bin and penalty try awarded Disagree lost the ball and short no try
Trimble get yellow maybe red for the slaps or punches or whatever that was from him Williams gets Red for the punches. If Trimble cant take it don't dish it out, yellow each fair.
Scarlet's get close to Ulster line and lose posession twice due to illegal stamps from scrumhalf this may also have resulted in yellow card Two kickable penalties or chance of a converted try against 14 men.
Final score presuming no other scores are scored during yellow cards etc and that Ulster still take their foot of the gas
Ulster 21-17 Scarlets anybody think this is wrong?
I make that 14 - 27!

The truth is that Ulster would probably have raised their game and prevented the Scarlet's comeback, but we will never know because the ref prevented a fair contest.

What mate your maths is off the stamps from scrumhalf were scarlets scrumhalf and agree or disagree on courts ground he was quite clearly stoped by 2 offside men im sorry but there just is no argument there, also whether trimble can take it or not is not an indication of rules Williams by law would ahve been sent of so probably would trimble if they were interpreted as punches. by your maths on yellows etc Ulster would have won by even more mate

I didn't see any stamp from any scrumhalf's, apart from a few nudges by the Scarlet's scrum half for Ulster players lying over the ball, I though you were talking about the two occasions that the Ulster scrum half kicked the ball out of the Scarlet's scrum. Hence 6 points to the Scarlet's for 2 penalties.

Williams and Trimble exchanged handbags, Trimble started it and Williams finished it and two yellows was the right call, end of story.

Despite my maths being pretty conservative, I still doubt that Scarlet's would have won as Ulster have been the better side all season and certainly deserve to be in the Final. What I am saying is that the Scarlet's cause on the night was severely hampered by atrocious refereeing, so we will never know what the result would have been if a competent ref had been in charge.

Well actually, my dad was talking to Andrew (Trimble) this morning and according to him he did not start it. He was punched by someone (might not have been Liam though) and he reacted. The TV doesn't show everything that goes on.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 3:10 pm

Notch wrote:I think saying a Leinsterman like Rolland is biased towards Ulster is like saying Nigel Owens is biased towards England- no love lost between old enemies.

I don't think Rolland is biased against Ulster at all btw. I have not even the slightest inclination to think that that is even close to being true. Same as I think claims of his 'bias' against the Scarlets are nonsense. But in Irish rugby, it's provincial allegiance first 90% of the time.

That is the most ignorant and disrespectfull things Ive read on these boards!!

With regards to being 'anti - welsh' Why oh why is anyone responding to the 'non welsh' saint, he is clearly here to sway opinion against Wales and I don't understand why your all falling for it?

by Seagultaf Sun 12 May 2013, 3:14 pm

Notch wrote:
TJ wrote:Now grow up and stop claiming... that anytime anyone has an opinion you do not share it is anti wales bias. it makes you look childish and stupid

Indeed

Haven't seen anyone mention Ulsters disallowed first try. You know the one we scored off a beautiful cross kick only to see the ref pull play back for the fight off the ball between Trimble and Williams, before giving the penalty the wrong way. Typical Leinster bias

Just cos it was the right decision to bring play back doesn't mean they aren't out to get us, after all

That was not a disallowed try, the whistle had gone and play had stopped well before the ball got to Bowe.

by **rodders** Sun 12 May 2013, 3:17 pm

Seagultaf wrote:That was not a disallowed try, the whistle had gone and play had stopped well before the ball got to Bowe.

The try was going to be scored. Rolland saved the Scarlet's bacon.

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 3:24 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Notch wrote:I think saying a Leinsterman like Rolland is biased towards Ulster is like saying Nigel Owens is biased towards England- no love lost between old enemies.

I don't think Rolland is biased against Ulster at all btw. I have not even the slightest inclination to think that that is even close to being true. Same as I think claims of his 'bias' against the Scarlets are nonsense. But in Irish rugby, it's provincial allegiance first 90% of the time.

That is the most ignorant and disrespectfull things Ive read on these boards!!

With regards to being 'anti - welsh' Why oh why is anyone responding to the 'non welsh' saint, he is clearly here to sway opinion against Wales and I don't understand why your all falling for it?

Some of us aren't responding to what Saint says though but to other comments. You alluded to Rolland being put in an unfair position. And that had he switched positions with a linesman there wouldn't have been a 'ref' issue with the game. I asked you what issue was there?

That Rolland was an Irish ref officiating in a game with an Irish side? That was the 'unfair position' he was put in?
Nigel Owens officiated in the recent Ospreys V Leinster game. Was his an 'unfair position' to be put in?
You might say no, because he's a world class ref who proves he doesn't let bias interfere with his subjective reffing of a game. And if you said that, you might be right; but you'd also be accusing Rolland of not being so professional. And we'd be back to square one about just what Rolland is being accused of - bad reffing or biased reffing?

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 3:27 pm

rodders wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:That was not a disallowed try, the whistle had gone and play had stopped well before the ball got to Bowe.

The try was going to be scored. Rolland saved the Scarlet's bacon.

So, his Leinster Mr Hyde escaped maybe once or twice in the game!!! So what??? He's human.................... Wink

well, the human bit of him is.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 3:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
Notch wrote:I think saying a Leinsterman like Rolland is biased towards Ulster is like saying Nigel Owens is biased towards England- no love lost between old enemies.

I don't think Rolland is biased against Ulster at all btw. I have not even the slightest inclination to think that that is even close to being true. Same as I think claims of his 'bias' against the Scarlets are nonsense. But in Irish rugby, it's provincial allegiance first 90% of the time.

That is the most ignorant and disrespectfull things Ive read on these boards!!

With regards to being 'anti - welsh' Why oh why is anyone responding to the 'non welsh' saint, he is clearly here to sway opinion against Wales and I don't understand why your all falling for it?

Some of us aren't responding to what Saint says though but to other comments. You alluded to Rolland being put in an unfair position. And that had he switched positions with a linesman there wouldn't have been a 'ref' issue with the game. I asked you what issue was there?

That Rolland was an Irish ref officiating in a game with an Irish side? That was the 'unfair position' he was put in?
Nigel Owens officiated in the recent Ospreys V Leinster game. Was his an 'unfair position' to be put in?
You might say no, because he's a world class ref who proves he doesn't let bias interfere with his subjective reffing of a game. And if you said that, you might be right; but you'd also be accusing Rolland of not being so professional. And we'd be back to square one about just what Rolland is being accused of - bad reffing or biased reffing?

We won't be back at square one at all, because I think an Irish ref reffing on Irish soil for an Irish team is just as wrong as Welsh ref reffing on Welsh soil for a Welsh team!!

My points aren't directed at Rolland as an individual, it's as his nationality!! Similarly when Owens was accused of cheating at the RWC, he should never have been reffing Samoa when they were in with a shout at putting Wales out of the world cup!!!

On this occasion Rolland, the Irish ref had a stinker and numerous decisions went for the home team, if he didn't ref the game there couldn't be any issue over a Scottish ref being bias toward either team!!

I have no doubt whatsoever that if Owens had a stinker and gave the Ospreys a number of key decisions there would be uproar from the Irish (and myself) over bias and ref placement!!

by red_stag Sun 12 May 2013, 3:32 pm

I agree neutral referees are the way to go.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 3:34 pm

red_stag wrote:I agree neutral referees are the way to go.

Its amazing to me that in a game where the stakes have become so high, and the money nearly there too refs are put in such a difficult position, like they don't get enought criticism or have enough to contend with already!

by red_stag Sun 12 May 2013, 3:37 pm

Exactly at least dont put referees in a position where they can be easily accused of bias.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 12 May 2013, 3:40 pm

red_stag wrote:Exactly at least dont put referees in a position where they can be easily accused of bias.

Especially when an Irishman who speaks fluent French and has ties to France refs a world cup semi against France and the team who put out his beloved France in the round before Whistle

or he might do something stupid and send off the the captain for a challenge that continually went unpunished on every stage of the world game Run

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 12 May 2013, 3:41 pm

Difficulty is that the Rabo is a multi-national league. Effectively the best refs available are either Welsh or Irish. So you have the dilema, do you put the best refs in charge of the big game between a Welsh and Irish outfit, or do you go with a poorer ref from Scotland or Italy. For me you want the best refs taking charge of the big games, in which case you are going to have to wear the fact that there will be opportunity for calls of bias.

by red_stag Sun 12 May 2013, 3:44 pm

I actually think Rolland gets a bad rap with the French thing.

He is not half French or French.

His Dad is French. Thats it.

Rolland was an Irish rugby international, played for Leinster and lives in Leinster. He has always refereed for Leinster branch and for the IRFU.

His father is French and thats it. He was born in Ireland, grew up in Ireland and has always been Irish.

Its an easy stick to hit him with. In todays world there are loads of people with parents from other nations.

by red_stag Sun 12 May 2013, 3:45 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Difficulty is that the Rabo is a multi-national league. Effectively the best refs available are either Welsh or Irish. So you have the dilema, do you put the best refs in charge of the big game between a Welsh and Irish outfit, or do you go with a poorer ref from Scotland or Italy. For me you want the best refs taking charge of the big games, in which case you are going to have to wear the fact that there will be opportunity for calls of bias.

To me this is an easy one.

Premiership Semi Finals: Nigel Owens and Allan Rolland
Top 14 Semi Finals: Wayne Barnes and Dave Pearson
Rabo Semi Finals: Romain Poite and Pascal Gauzere

by SecretFly Sun 12 May 2013, 3:46 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:

I have no doubt whatsoever that if Owens had a stinker and gave the Ospreys a number of key decisions there would be uproar from the Irish (and myself) over bias and ref placement!!

There you go,I say you'd be wrong. Irish fans mostly hate bad performances - by their own teams first and foremost! (you know how it goes, you've listened to many of the longwinded ones that stretched to many many pages. The players aren't up to it, that player was in the wrong position, Heaslip doesn't commit himself enough, our scrum is in major trouble, etc. etc. The recaps are generally of the navel gazing variety. I seldom even remember the ref who officiates much less hold it in store for him to accuse him of bias.

Some refs seem to have good days and bad days and all of them are guilty there (humans again) but I don't see it as a major issue amongst Irish fans that refs are always conpiring to beat us, backed up by their Scottish, English or Welsh bias. But it is a trend amongst (some!!!! not all) Welsh fans....it's a trend or else it wouldn't be identified as one, and it is. There's always a reason or reasons running above and beyond the actual game being played itself, chances taken and not taken, defensive lapses etc.

So yeah,bad ref days certainly and we'll call it if we see it....but the 'bias' line remains a favourite with our Welsh kin.

by MrsP Sun 12 May 2013, 3:47 pm

Or maybe, just maybe, rugby fans could show a bit of respect and stop accusing refs of bias?

Certainly refs will make mistakes.

Fans will always notice the mistakes "against" their team more than the mistakes which benefit their team.

Sensible fans acknowledge that this happens and realise it is them who is biased, not the ref!

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