Lions only have one 10

Having watched the Sarries - Northampton game yesterday anyone else scared that we have only one 10? He was pretty awful (again) and definitely not Lions class.

Not scared because Jonny or even Flood will be called out as back up to sexton

100%beefy wrote:Not scared because Jonny or even Flood will be called out as back up to sexton

I very much doubt that to be honest.

majesticimperialman wrote:

100%beefy wrote:Not scared because Jonny or even Flood will be called out as back up to sexton

I very much doubt that to be honest.

Snap, JW is nursing an injury and said himself he doesn't feel like up to the tour physically. I'd give Biggar a call up - he's been better than Farrell recentry anyway.

Dangerous if Sexton gets injured!

Planetrugby made the same point last week:

http://www.planetrugby.com/lions/story/0,25883,16993_8695995,00.html

Meanwhile, the choice to take only two fly-halves - and not one of the centres in the squad could possibly be considered fly-half cover, even at a pinch - is indicative of only one thing for us: that one Mr. J. Wilkinson will complete his tour de force with Toulon and then jet off to Australia.

But we are truly mystified as to the inclusion of Owen Farrell. The Six Nations was the measure of form according to Gatland. In which case, we have a fly-half in Jonathan Sexton who is only now rediscovering pre-injury form,and another who singularly failed ever to ignite England's backs with anything beyond a kick.

If ever there was an illustration of Farrell's shortcomings it had to be the butchered overlap in the Heineken Cup semi-final where an accomplished fly-half of the ilk of Carter, Wilkinson or Cooper would have found the pass to be of second nature. Instead, Farrell delivered a wonky, soggy balloon of a pass, which cost his side their last real opportunity of winning.

He kicks well. Very well. He tackles. But he is indisciplined, has a lot of skills to learn, and just does not have the variety of game a complete fly-half should have. The Lions are short in the ten department - until Jonny flies out anyway.

JW has ruled himself out but said to give him a call come the test, so for me he's out.

Flood was dire again yesterday and needs some time off.

Biggar is hated by Gatland and I think Adam Jones has a better shot at the 10 shirt than him.

Which leaves Madigan and Hook as options... I don't want to see either in the tests but bench options maybe.

Bottom line is we have no cover for a recent returnee from injury who has to be involved in every game!!

Biggar is the form 10 left IMO

Not too worried about it. There is plenty of rugby to be played between now and the test matches. There are always injuries leading up to and during the tour. Sexton will be targeted by the McRaes of this world and back ups may need to be drafted in but Id rather have Sexton and Farrell than Cooper and Barnes.

I like the way people - including media pundits - have extrapolated what Wilkinson meant from the little both he and Gatland have said publicly about their conversation.

As far as I can see, all we can say for certain is that Gatland offered him a chance to be on the plane to Hong Kong but he declined because of club commitments.

I haven't heard anything about him saying he's only interested in playing in the Tests, or that he doesn't want to take part in Lions training sessions.

It's certainly true that his response has been taken differently even by members of the Lions management. Andy Irvine sounded distinctly unimpressed:

Irvine told BBC 5Live: "The truth is Jonny wasn't up for it. He ruled himself out. He told Warren that he feels his body isn't in the right shape to complete a tour like this."

The Scotsman later added: "My take on it is Jonny said 'look I'm flattered but I don't think it's right for me to be considered with the young bucks. Get on with them'.

"Had he said 'I'm your man, I'm desperate to play for the Lions, I'm really up for it, don't worry about the French cup final I'm coming with the rest of you', I think Jonny would have been on that trip. But he didn't say that.

"I personally feel very passionate that if you want to play for the Lions you prove to us that you want to play for the Lions.

"Four years ago Nathan Hines was so determined to go he just walked out on Perpignan. That's the attitude we're looking for."

Irvine believes Wilkinson has "left the door open slightly" to being called up, in the event of injuries, once the tour gets underway.

If you listen to what Wilkinson said, then it sounds like he is more than open to the idea of a late call-up:

'I told him where I am at the moment, that there's a bit of day-to-day management where my body is concerned,' Wilkinson said. 'I'll see how I am at the end of the club season and if Warren needs me and I am able to get involved, that would be fabulous.

Farrell will be the only FH available to face the Baabaas - if Sarries had won, we would have had Hogg at 10.

It is a really strange decision to only take 2 Flyhalves

Call up Biggar (or Madigan if you like) now!

Maybe this is Gatlands intention not to show his hand to the Aussies. It really wouldn't surprise me

RubyGuby wrote:Maybe this is Gatlands intention not to show his hand to the Aussies. It really wouldn't surprise me

Hogg was doing the goal kicking for Glasgow on Saturday. Not sure he usually does.

Hogg should not be kicking any goals for the Lions - I'd still start him at FB but goalkicker he is not at this level

We have Halfpenny to kick goal no matter what

Hogg was kicking because Horne isn't great (and Weir and Jackson were not starting) I think?

Hogg is a pretty decent 4th choice kicker

Is Farrell Jr the Antichrist?

Discuss.

There will have to be another 10 parachuted in. Even if Farrell hits a purple patch, how is he and Sexton going to cope with being involved in every game? Because surely one will start and the other will bench or am I missing something as usual?!

With the greatest of respect to Irvine, did he just expect Wilko to walk out on his contract with Toulon?

beshocked wrote:Is Farrell Jr the Antichrist?

Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxeodOhZU8

maybe

wales606 wrote:Farrell will be the only FH available to face the Baabaas - if Sarries had won, we would have had Hogg at 10.

It is a really strange decision to only take 2 Flyhalves

Call up Biggar (or Madigan if you like) now!

I am amazed either weren't picked ahead of Farrell. Both have proved their ability while I think we are all still waiting to see Farrell actually demonstrate that he is good enough to play top level rugby.

He is a good goal kicker, when he is not under pressure.

Not worried about Farrell at all. He is a very decent player. In many ways Biggar is just as good but Farrell got the nod so I will back him for the tour.

The only issue I have with Farrell is the bit of niggle he gets involved in and his annoying goal kicking face. Other than that I would prefer to have him than Cooper and Barnes.

Is anyone else frightened by just how incredibly poor the Lions team is likely to be from 9-13 in Hong Kong?

Sexton, Youngs, O'Driscoll and Tuilagi are all involved in finals the week before so we have;

9) Murray/Phillips
10) Farrell
12) Roberts
13) Davies

!?

A 9 who takes a lot out of of the ball with side-steps pick and gos, a 10 who sits deep, has no running game and a poor passing game, and two centres who just run hard. Neither is really a passer.

God, I hope the Lions pack gels otherwise its going to be a long dull tour. Also better pray that BOD and Sexton stay fit for the tour...

Notch wrote:Is anyone else frightened by just how incredibly poor the Lions team is likely to be from 9-13 in Hong Kong?

Sexton, Youngs, O'Driscoll and Tuilagi are all involved in finals the week before so we have;

9) Murray/Phillips
10) Farrell
12) Roberts
13) Davies

!?

A 9 who takes a lot out of of the ball with side-steps pick and gos, a 10 who sits deep, has no running game and a poor passing game, and two centres who just run hard. Neither is really a passer.

God, I hope the Lions pack gels otherwise its going to be a long dull tour. Also better pray that BOD and Sexton stay fit for the tour...

No not really. I tip Phillips to be the stand out Lion on tour. I also fancy Roberts, one of the stand out players on the last tour to return to form down under.

Also I have no issue what so ever with Farrell. Id rather have Farrell than Cooper or Barnes to be honest.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:Farrell will be the only FH available to face the Baabaas - if Sarries had won, we would have had Hogg at 10.

It is a really strange decision to only take 2 Flyhalves

Call up Biggar (or Madigan if you like) now!

I am amazed either weren't picked ahead of Farrell. Both have proved their ability while I think we are all still waiting to see Farrell actually demonstrate that he is good enough to play top level rugby.

He is a good goal kicker, when he is not under pressure.

You really are an ignoramus aren't you.

Can anyone tell me why Gatland would not have selected Biggar?

beshocked wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:Farrell will be the only FH available to face the Baabaas - if Sarries had won, we would have had Hogg at 10.

It is a really strange decision to only take 2 Flyhalves

Call up Biggar (or Madigan if you like) now!

I am amazed either weren't picked ahead of Farrell. Both have proved their ability while I think we are all still waiting to see Farrell actually demonstrate that he is good enough to play top level rugby.

He is a good goal kicker, when he is not under pressure.

You really are an ignoramus aren't you.

Leave out the personals please beshocked.


I can understand Farrell going ahead of Biggare and Madigan on international experience, and over the past couple of seasons (which has been Gatland's selection criteria for a few positions) he's got a lot more form in-position than either of the other 2. You could argue that Biggar has more form over the past few weeks, but on that basis there's a few other Lions who could count themselves luckier than Farrell.

It's not like the Lions are leaving a Dan Carter at home after all - 10 just isn't that strong a position in the NH at the moment

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me why Gatland would not have selected Biggar?

(i) Stubborness (ii) It seems we have a lot of welsh on board so that ounce of diplomacy he has may have swayed it.

At the moment Biggar might well be the best OH of the home nations IMO

But he could have left Lydiate and selected Biggar if he wanted to be seen as diplomatic?

Bring back Parks

The good news is Preistland is not fit, he dropped out of the Scarlets game on Friday, I suspect Gatland wanted him to come through that game, for some reason Gatland favours his random form over a reliable consistent Biggar.

Biltong wrote:But he could have left Lydiate and selected Biggar if he wanted to be seen as diplomatic?

He was never going to leave Lydiate at home - he is his favourite player and most of Warburton's best games for Wales have been in tandem with Lydiate.

Is the Lions selection written in blood ? Can it be changed for non injury reasons does anyone know ?

Can't see why injured players won't be replaced, unless Gatland thinks it isn't necessary.

munkian wrote:Is the Lions selection written in blood ? Can it be changed for non injury reasons does anyone know ?

I suspect there's been some pre-tour contracts signed so people will be going unless injury/disciplinary issues crop up. Nothing stopping Gatland from adding to the squad though (aside from having to justify a u-turn to the media )

You think we might see some fake blood...?

Biltong wrote:You think we might see some fake blood...?

Are there any Harlequins players going ?

Dunno

Must try harder Biltong

Biltong wrote:You think we might see some fake blood...?

I meant pre-tour contracts with players - so they'd have to be "convinced" they'd failed a medical (as simply de-selecting someone in favour of someone else could lead to employment law issues). I suspect fake blood wouldn't cut it

I am lazy, it is after work, I am bored and nobody wants to shoot the sh... With me.

Biltong wrote:I am lazy, it is after work, I am bored and nobody wants to shoot the sh... With me.

I wish it was after work

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:You think we might see some fake blood...?

I meant pre-tour contracts with players - so they'd have to be "convinced" they'd failed a medical (as simply de-selecting someone in favour of someone else could lead to employment law issues). I suspect fake blood wouldn't cut it

knew what you meant but I am bored.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am lazy, it is after work, I am bored and nobody wants to shoot the sh... With me.

I wish it was after work

just fake a bit of blood and go home early.

Biltong wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am lazy, it is after work, I am bored and nobody wants to shoot the sh... With me.

I wish it was after work

just fake a bit of blood and go home early.

I had to leave early last Thursday to meet a locksmith at home*. Can't have things like htat happen too often




* 1st time I've left home without my housekeys in 3 years, and it's the week my flatmate is on holiday in Greece

That's such a good point about the babas game that hogg would have been starting 10!! Then who would have been the reserve 10?? half penny I guess?? Gatland has made a strange choice he really has.

Lions coaches rarely add to a squad. Last time, McGeechan actually reduced it. He selected Halfpenny but the player had an injury. Geech decided he had the position covered and elected not to replace him. He did leave the door open for Halfpenny to join later if he could get fit, and that's what happened. He then succumbed to injury again, and Hook was called up. We'll never know whether Hook, or some other player, would have been added as a replacement if Halfpenny had not been able to travel.

I hope this year we don't have the same circus we saw over Ryan Jones in 2009. If you recall, he was called up as a replacement for Ferris. While on tour in America, however, he had picked up a head injury. The Lions felt the Welsh medical team told them he was fit to travel and play but discovered, when he arrived, that this was not the case. The Welsh said they had only cleared Jones for travelling home, and hadn't done any further fitness tests, which they expected the Lions to do. The official verdict was "miscommunication" but the result was Jones being sent straight home again and no-one else being called up.

That all took place before the first Test had been played, which gives you an idea of how small the window really is for replacements to join a tour and make a contribution.

It would have been interesting to see what might have happened in 2001 if Graham Henry had sent Matt Dawson home. We came up short on scrum halves that year. Howley was out and Healey picked up a late injury. Andy Nicol had to be drafted in from a boozy supporters tour as a last minute bench replacement. Cover would certainly have been needed if Dawson had been sent packing.

What about Charlie Hodson?

He could be called up. he is playing better than Farrell is right now.

majesticimperialman wrote:What about Charlie Hodson?

He could be called up. he is playing better than Farrell is right now.

This is a Lions thread Maj - The Hong Kong seniors thread is in the club rugby section

RubyGuby wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:What about Charlie Hodson?

He could be called up. he is playing better than Farrell is right now.

This is a Lions thread Maj - The Hong Kong seniors thread is in the club rugby section

I'm not worried. I think Farrell will do well behind a formidable Lions pack. I would call up somebody like Madigan though just to be careful.