Munster 2013/14

Some news of players leaving Munster.

Doug Howlett has announced his retirement.

Other departures from the current squad - besides Peter Stringer who remains with Bath, Marcus Horan who announced his retirement recently, Sean Scanlon (Rotherham Titans) and Sean Henry (Connacht) - include Wian du Preez who returns to his native South Africa, Scott Deasy and Christy Condon.

BJ Botha will continue on with Munster having signed a two year contract extension while Danny Barnes has not been re-contracted but is understood to have negotiated an opportunity to play abroad and news of that will be confirmed in the coming weeks.

Any new signings? 2 Niq spots now with Dougie and Wian out. Even Leinster are only leaving one free.

Is Williams being kept? perhaps a medium ranked scrummie to back up Murray when he is away?

Dougie signed in Jan 08. Since then, French and Japanese money has meant that Irish provinces are unlikely to ever sign such a high profile player again.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Any new signings? 2 Niq spots now with Dougie and Wian out. Even Leinster are only leaving one free.

Is Williams being kept? perhaps a medium ranked scrummie to back up Murray when he is away?

I don't think there'll be many signings. Maybe Penney knows a few Crusaders but they wouldn't be high profile. Finances are tight and the IRFU want to limit the amount of NIQs.

Williams is already under contract.

I think Deasy is going to Aurillic in France along with Brian Hayes.

profitius wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Any new signings? 2 Niq spots now with Dougie and Wian out. Even Leinster are only leaving one free.

Is Williams being kept? perhaps a medium ranked scrummie to back up Murray when he is away?

I don't think there'll be many signings. Maybe Penney knows a few Crusaders but they wouldn't be high profile. Finances are tight and the IRFU want to limit the amount of NIQs.

Williams is already under contract. Ar$e. His bro plays for Monkstown, perhaps you could do some deal.....

I think Deasy is going to Aurillic in France along with Brian Hayes.

Start of a Fine Gael exodus?

One other player - Corey Hircock - is going back to Bedford.
ROG and Conor Murray have yet to sign new contracts. ROG could be retiring.


Coming in are..
Andrew Conway - winger (signed from Leinster. The others named below were promoted from within)
Cian Bohane - wing/center
Duncan Casey - hooker
James Cronin - prop
Barry O'Mahony - flanker
Ronan O'Mahony - winger
Niall Scannell - hooker


I don't know much about the new players but Scannell looks a good prospect at hooker and Conway we all know about. James Cronin could be the one to watch though.

So overall next season the squad will have a youthful appearance to it with the granddaddys of the squad being DOC, POC, Coughlan and Botha.

Poor Doug, I hoped he'd stay one more year, great player for Munster, really bought into the team and was one of the best NIQ signings any of the Provinces.
He has intimated that he will remain in Cork, does this suggest that a coaching role is on the cards?


A little surprised by BJ's 2 year extension, with the IRFU threating one NIQ per position we can safely say they are going for a more reasonable appraoch. Surprised still, as Afoa's deal has a while to run yet, but we can prob say that Ulster need to source an IQ TH. lets hope that the loosehead conversion works out.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Dougie signed in Jan 08. Since then, French and Japanese money has meant that Irish provinces are unlikely to ever sign such a high profile player again.

Not true Zane Kirchener is coming to town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will there be any more signings for Munster over the summer.They look pretty short on depth at prop (LH and TH) and in the halfbacks.Are they going to trust the young lads to come good or will they make use of the NIQ spots that have opened up.

Well, scrum half is a problem but between Keatley and J.J. I think we have outhalf covered.

I know Munster fans have great faith in Hanrahan but wouldn't Penney have used him a bit more this season if he was thinking he might be his backup 10 for next season?

Think you'r only allowed 4 NIQ (including projects) from now on, meaning Munster have one space left.
NIQ
BJ Botha
CJ Stander
Casey Laulala

Think Ulster were given special premission to extend Johann Muller's contact and have 5 NIQ.

Oh it's down to 4 already,I didn't realise that.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Oh it's down to 4 already,I didn't realise that.

I don't think that's correct. No changes until the 14/15 season. Leinster have just chosen not to use their 4th spot. Not sure what Munster have planned as they will have 2 spots with Wian and Dougie leaving.

I think we save the cash. Squad doesnt need that much work IMO.

I know loan repayments to Thomond are an issue and I think we dont need a NIQ signing.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I know Munster fans have great faith in Hanrahan but wouldn't Penney have used him a bit more this season if he was thinking he might be his backup 10 for next season?

They want to ease him into it. Penney said he might play him at 12 for a few seasons. Mannix too said from his own experience its better not to rush young players.

I've always rated James Rael as highly as Scannell even though he played second fiddle, but I see he's also moving to Connacht.

profitius wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I know Munster fans have great faith in Hanrahan but wouldn't Penney have used him a bit more this season if he was thinking he might be his backup 10 for next season?

They want to ease him into it. Penney said he might play him at 12 for a few seasons. Mannix too said from his own experience its better not to rush young players.

Yeah that's what I thought,it seems unlikely then that he'll be the backup 10 next season if they are still sticking with that policy so who will be Keatleys understudy (this is all on the assumption that RoG is retiring).

Surely that's sufficiently eased in. Got a few appearances this year. Will feature mainly from bench next year as Keatley has no commitments.

I hadnt seen Deasy is leaving. We would need another 10. Can't think of other academy lads.

Is it beyond all possibility ROG will stay on? No announcement yet.

Rumour doing the rounds when BJ was thought to be re-signing was that Du Preez was been sacrificed as a result. The IRFU regulations are more or less dead in the water I believe with the case of each NIQ being considered individually

Who's going to be the new captain with Howlett gone? POC?

Who is going into the Munster academy next season?

Golden, personally I'd go with POM, but with him being on Ireland duty others might favour a guy who'll be around more often than not, so in that case, Coughlan might well be the man as he will be available, injury notwithstanding. His place at 8, however, would be far from certain, so they might break with the "tradition" and name either POC or POM as Captain and then have Coughlan others filling in during the Int windows and rotation periods.

We could potentially see ROG, Howlett, Horan, Du Preez and Stringer all leave. Thats a lot of experience leaving and being replaced by inexperienced players. Thats a worry for next season.

On the plus side of those only ROG started against Harlequins and Clermont.

Profitus, exactly, Stringer wasn't even a squad member for much of the last two seasons and Horan had been repalced by 2 guys so that is not a real loss. Du Preez though will be felt in that Kilcoyne will be likely with the Irish squad for two protions of the seasons and so the 2 guys behind him will be called upon to play around 10 games or so. Will not be surprised if we sign an NIQ loosie.

Our wing/FB situation is young but fun! Woot!

Irish internationals do not make good captains, as they are missing for so many games.

I'd say BJ may be in with a shout, Experienced player and will be there all year round.

I was on the Connacht thread and could a case be made for Connachts backs being better than Munsters?

Sinoti Sinoti, Griffin, McSharry, Poolman
Henshaw

Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo
Felix Jones

?

debaters1 wrote:Profitus, exactly, Stringer wasn't even a squad member for much of the last two seasons and Horan had been repalced by 2 guys so that is not a real loss. Du Preez though will be felt in that Kilcoyne will be likely with the Irish squad for two protions of the seasons and so the 2 guys behind him will be called upon to play around 10 games or so. Will not be surprised if we sign an NIQ loosie.

Our wing/FB situation is young but fun! Woot!

They won't be signing a NIQ loosie because they just left one go. The IRFU ordered them to get rid of Botha or Du Preez. To be honest its the right call as John Ryan or Cotter hardly played for Munster last season. Props need game time to improve as Archer has shown and NIQ props are blocking the development of Irish props. You have to balance that out with Munster winning so the resigning of Botha was the right call and so was letting Du Preez go.

John Ryan can cover loosehead and James Cronin is coming from the academy. Physically Cronin is a very impressive unit and destructive in the loose. If they can get his scrummaging up to the required standard then they'll have a better player than Du Preez.

Kingshu wrote:Irish internationals do not make good captains, as they are missing for so many games.

I'd say BJ may be in with a shout, Experienced player and will be there all year round.

I was on the Connacht thread and could a case be made for Connachts backs being better than Munsters?

Sinoti Sinoti, Griffin, McSharry, Poolman
Henshaw

Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo
Felix Jones
?

You could make a case for Connachts backs being better. Munster would have the better wingers but the rest is debatable. Next seasons backline will be better with ROG gone, in terms of scoring tries. Munster have looked more dangerous this season with Keatley and Hanrahan playing. They're completely different players to ROG so will bring something different.

Surely if ROG and Deasy leave we will be looking at a NIQ 10?

We are worried that the Lions could struggle on a 7 week tour with just 2 flyhalves.

A year is a long time for Munster to just have Hanrahan and Keatley.

Kingshu wrote:Irish internationals do not make good captains, as they are missing for so many games.

I'd say BJ may be in with a shout, Experienced player and will be there all year round.

I was on the Connacht thread and could a case be made for Connachts backs being better than Munsters?

Sinoti Sinoti, Griffin, McSharry, Poolman
Henshaw

Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo
Felix Jones

?

Except Leo Cullen of course.

Leo Cullen is an exception due to him not really being involved in internationals. DoC may go th esame way, and if he was starting for Munster would be a shout for Captian, really to Captain a Province to have it an experienced player that will be there most of the year, it will fall to a NIQ like Muller, Howlett or an Irish player not involed with internations much, like Cullen.


To be honest I think Connachts backs compare well enough to the other Irish provinces (much closer than they ever have been anyway).

Bowe Cave Marshall Bowe
Panye


Fitzgerald BoD Darcy/Madigan McFadden
Rob Kearney

And I think they are better than a lot of thier rivals in the league.

They (Connacht) signed a young Kiwi flanker yesterday. Interested to see how he does.

Peter O'Mahony for captain with James Coughlan captain in his absense.

- Botha or Laulala are not captain material IMO


- O'Connell can be a leader without being a captain

- Coughlan will be an able deputy when O'Mahony is away

- I think Stander could be a starter over Coughlan for key games. It becomes harder to drop your club captain for a big match.

- O'Mahony has tended to do well as captain. Give him extra responsibilities and stop him getting engrossed in off the ball niggles.

MUNSTER 2013/14 (What I wouldn't mind seeing)

01 Dave Kilcoyne
02 Mike Sherry
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha Ryan
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Peter O'Mahony (c)
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 CJ Stander
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Keith Earls
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Andrew Conway
15 Simon Zebo

16 Damien Varley
17 James Cronin
18 Stephen Archer
19 Donncha O'Callaghan
20 James Coughlan
21 Cathal Sheridan
22 JJ Hanrahan
23 Denis Hurley

Obviously don't rate Jones and prepared to move Zebo to keep him out.

Would team Ireland like Zebo at 15?

I think Tommy O'Donnell is going to become a huge player for you guys. He seriously impressed me against Edinburgh this season - certainly made of the right stuff.

Who are the young locks at Munster coming through?

I dont see what Stander has done to start ahead of Coughlan. Coughlan has been one of Munster's most consistent players in recent years.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I dont see what Stander has done to start ahead of Coughlan. Coughlan has been one of Munster's most consistent players in recent years.

A hunch. I'm trying to think ahead.

I can see Stander having a big season. Did well when he played but without the stress of trying to settle in Ireland, the injuries and a proper preseason (not just coming in off the back of Super Rugby) I think he will do very well.

Coughlan is an incredible player and will be a true leader especially when internationals are away but when push comes to shove and the big Heineken Cup knockout clashes start to roll around I think Stander will be the man we want.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Tommy O'Donnell is going to become a huge player for you guys. He seriously impressed me against Edinburgh this season - certainly made of the right stuff.

Who are the young locks at Munster coming through?

Nagle and Dave Foley are coming through. They're in their mid twenties now so its not looking great. Academy lock Brian Hayes has just signed for Aurillic in France. Billy Holland is just a squad player. There are 2 secondrows in the academy and 3 are being signed up to the academy for next season according to some reports.

O'Donnell had a great season. Won Munsters player of the season award the other night. He is looking like David Wallaces long term replacement.

Anthony Foley is signing a new 1 year contract with Munster. So hes off the Ireland radar.

Newstalk reporting that ROG is on his way to RACING METRO as an assistant coach for 2 years

http://www.newstalk.ie/OGara-poised-to-join-Sexton-at-Racing-Metro

Sexton must be wondering when will he ever get rid of ROG?!

The Munster squad is beginning to look pretty thin,they still have a pretty strong first 15 but injuries to a couple of key players could really hit them hard especially at prop,centre and halfback.

SirJohnnyEnglish wrote:Sexton must be wondering when will he ever get rid of ROG?!

They'll have a .............. well, a ball.

.

red_stag wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I dont see what Stander has done to start ahead of Coughlan. Coughlan has been one of Munster's most consistent players in recent years.

A hunch. I'm trying to think ahead.

I can see Stander having a big season. Did well when he played but without the stress of trying to settle in Ireland, the injuries and a proper preseason (not just coming in off the back of Super Rugby) I think he will do very well.

Coughlan is an incredible player and will be a true leader especially when internationals are away but when push comes to shove and the big Heineken Cup knockout clashes start to roll around I think Stander will be the man we want.

POM was always going to be captain (only time before he takes over from heaslip).
Also when push comes to shove if Coughlan maintains his form I cant see Stander getting in.

Strong first squad but a weak second 15 means it could be a tough season

doctor_grey wrote:But, can O'Gara actually teach?
Frequently players very good at something are not the best teachers.
Or, do you think O'Gara is there just to keep Sexton company?

His missus is a primary school teacher..we all know sexton is a bit slow on the uptake so she is there to help him along....come on Johnny between the posts and you get a great big gold star

From what I have seen, in only a few appearances Stander has shown he is up there with the best flankers/8s in Ireland already. What is his try to games ratio now? Something silly.

Very powerful guy.

He can't even start for Munster, so I don't see how he is seen as one of the best in Ireland. Maybe next year he will show better form.