Munster 2013/14

First topic message reminder :

Some news of players leaving Munster.

Doug Howlett has announced his retirement.

Other departures from the current squad - besides Peter Stringer who remains with Bath, Marcus Horan who announced his retirement recently, Sean Scanlon (Rotherham Titans) and Sean Henry (Connacht) - include Wian du Preez who returns to his native South Africa, Scott Deasy and Christy Condon.

BJ Botha will continue on with Munster having signed a two year contract extension while Danny Barnes has not been re-contracted but is understood to have negotiated an opportunity to play abroad and news of that will be confirmed in the coming weeks.

Munster team for Tomorrow.
Zebo at FB, Hurley at IC and Barry O' gets a run out....

Munster: Simon Zebo, Gerhard van den Heever, Casey Laulala, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, Stephen Archer; Donncha O'Callaghan, Dave Foley; CJ Stander, Barry O'Mahony, James Coughlan (Capt.).Replacements: Ger Slattery, James Cronin, John Ryan, Billy Holland, Sean Dougall, Cathal Sheridan, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

Blues team:

15 Dan Fish, 14 Harry Robinson, 13 Owen Williams, 12 Gavin Evans, 11 Chris Czekaj, 10 Gareth Davies, 9 Lloyd Williams; 1 Sam Hobbs (c), 2 Kristian Dacey, 3 Benoit Bourrust, 4 Chris Dicomidis, 5 Filo Paulo, 6 Macauley Cook, 7 Ellis Jenkins, 8 Robin Copeland

Replacements: 16 Marc Breeze, 17 Thomas Davies, 18 Patrick Palmer, 19 James Down, 20 Luke Hamilton, 21 Lewis Jones, 22 Simon Humberstone, 23 Isaia Tuifua

Hammering for Cardiff tonight. Were still in it at half time but Zebo was outstanding in the second half along with James Cronin. Van de Heever looks like a good un and JJ to my mind has surpassed Keatley but I guess Keatley will keep his spot for the HC QF.

MOTM was Coughlan...completely outplayed the possible usurper Copeland. Looks like Copeland will have a fight on his hands next year to win over the Number 8 jersey.

BBC says the attendance was 13,800. Presume thats mostly season tickets and it wasnt close to that?

Dod you forgot to mention CJ thought he had his best game in a Munster jersey!

Coughlan was just absolutely brilliant carried tackled aggression he was everywhere! Is it possible that the Munster back tow of Pom tod and coughlan is stronger that the irish back row yesterday? Not much in it I reckon!

Lastly Zebo surley has to get a call up! He has far more potential than either Trimble or Kearney!

Can't see Joe calling up Zebo...

CJ had a great second half. First half he wasn't great.

What's the story with Conway.

He was arguably our best back at the end of last season, and I before this season began I would have thought he'd be ahead of Hurley, Murphy and Jones. (To be fair Murphy has looked very good in the HC matches I've seen him in). Terrible career move from Conway.

Conway has been unlucky with injury up to now. Now he has a problem with Earls/Zebo/Murphy/R O'Mahoney and now Heever all vying for places (although Heever is thought of as a possible IC and Earls will probably move to OC). Up to him to make the grade....took his try well yesterday....

No surprise really but Foley confirmed as new Head Coach. Dont think there will be too many complaints.

Im sure he is smart enough to continue with some of the changes Penney brought while naturally he will bring some old school Munster to the table.

It will be interesting dynamic for the rest of the season i.e. who will really be in control when it comes to the crunch??

Even more interesting is who he brings onboard.

ME-109 wrote:Even more interesting is who he brings onboard.

I'd say Costello will be promoted (he seems to be highly rated and I think was coaching the Emerging Ireland at Tibilisi Cup last summer).

Wouldn't be surprised if ROG came back in some capacity. Johnny let slip that his contract with Racing is 1 year with an option on a 2nd year.

Would be surprised if it was ROG...but you never know

Are Wales releasing Ryan Bevington, James King , Ryan Jones, Dan Baker  and Ashley Beck (if fit ) to the O's, for the game against you, Munster  , on Sunday , at the Liberty Stadium?

Just so this thread wont completely disappear...

Good win today. Excellent defence all round (except for Keatley and Becks try).

Standouts...Williams in the second half, JJ for the lead up to Downeys try, The Zee man, Coughlan and Cronin were pick of the forwards and Dave Foley made a nuisance of himself.

Not so good...Sheriden is looking more and more pedestrian, Casey LLL looked like he wasnt interested and looks like his bags are packed already.

Eh Conway? Again looked a busy player.

The Zee man? Oh dear.

BlueMuff wrote:
Lastly Zebo surley has to get a call up! He has far more potential than either Trimble or Kearney!

International rugby is a massive step up from playing for Munster. For Ireland we need guys that can take direction.

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:
Lastly Zebo surley has to get a call up! He has far more potential than either Trimble or Kearney!

International rugby is a massive step up from playing for Munster. For Ireland we need guys that can take direction.

Well, his Munster coaches seem well able to get a performance out of him. Maybe Joe should ask them for some help in how to give direction  

He's already been there and done that (and then some).

And was I dreaming or was he not called up for the Lions?

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:
Lastly Zebo surley has to get a call up! He has far more potential than either Trimble or Kearney!

International rugby is a massive step up from playing for Munster. For Ireland we need guys that can take direction.

Well, his Munster coaches seem well able to get a performance out of him. Maybe Joe should ask them for some help in how to give direction  

Maybe thats their problem, too focussed on individual players. If you want to play for Ireland you have to be a team player. Simple as that.

MunsterMac wrote:He's already been there and done that (and then some).

And was I dreaming or was he not called up for the Lions?

Only because Tommy Bowe, who is a much better player was injured. Zebo was called up as cover thats it. Tom Court was called up too. Maybe if he was more focussed on the summer tour he would be playing for Ireland now?

Basically what Ireland need is Tommy Bowe to be back not the "Zee man".

Lets be fair here.

Tom Court was only brought in because he was already in Australia so I wouldn't be using that as some type of barometer of the standard of replacement being called up.

And are you seriously suggesting that the reason Zebo is not being called up is because he answered a Lions call up rather than stay with Ireland 'A' in the USA?!?

When is the last time a player was called up to the lions and turned it down?

Look Guns actually thinks Heaslip had a good game yesterday so no point in arguing with him.

Dont you like the Zee Man Guns...beats the Kearndog any day....

MunsterMac wrote:Lets be fair here.

Tom Court was only brought in because he was already in Australia so I wouldn't be using that as some type of barometer of the standard of replacement being called up.

And are you seriously suggesting that the reason Zebo is not being called up is because he answered a Lions call up rather than stay with Ireland 'A' in the USA?!?

When is the last time a player was called up to the lions and turned it down?

The rumour is that he hasnt been called up because his attitude was quite poor on the summer tour. He wasnt trying too hard in an effort to keep himself fit in case of a Lions call up. Something like that. Wouldnt be surprised as he doesnt seem to have the required attitude for Ireland test rugby.

ME-109 wrote:Look Guns actually thinks Heaslip had a good game yesterday so no point in arguing with him.

Dont you like the Zee Man Guns...beats the Kearndog any day....

Beats Kearndog at what? Threesomes?

Heaslip got a better player rating from both the Irish Times and Sunday Times. He also gets included in the Independents team of the week.

Of course though because he doesnt have a face like a embittered bulldog he doesnt fit so snugly into the Munster fanboy understading of a effective backrow player.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Look Guns actually thinks Heaslip had a good game yesterday so no point in arguing with him.

Dont you like the Zee Man Guns...beats the Kearndog any day....

Beats Kearndog at what? Threesomes?

Heaslip got a better player rating from both the Irish Times and Sunday Times. He also gets included in the Independents team of the week.

Of course though because he doesnt have a face like a embittered bulldog he doesnt fit so snugly into the Munster fanboy understading of a effective backrow player.

oooh guns...handbags drawn I see...  

You always seem to have the old putdown of the munster player when they werent referenced. Shows an inability to argue the points...good tactic but ultimately self defeating. Anyhow regarding old Jamie the man had more ball than anyone else outside of the halves and as you know he made a great impression on Saturday...like I said if Fat Billy had been on the park with that amount of ball he would have scored a hat trick....I suppose we will get to see old Sergio giving Jamie a spanking as he does every time they play each other in a couple of weeks.

ME-109 wrote:You always seem to have the old putdown of the munster player when they werent referenced?

Eh? Who are you on about?

Seems the old Zee man on his own over the last three games has nearly carried more metres than the whole of the Irish backline, scored more tries, more defenders beaten (than the whole team) and off loads.... Only Cian Healy comes close....

I've no truck with rumours.

The fact is Zebo offers something that presently doesn’t exist in the Irish squad.

He's very skilful, is clocked as the fastest current Irish international and has that x-factor as shown against Wales last year.

I've noticed reading the papers & forums since Saturday that his name is coming up more and more as people begin to realise that he has something to offer.

Another player who has a lot to offer is JJ Hanrahan but unfortunately because of the way he has been handled over the last 2 years he is not in a position to be called up.

It’s especially irritating when you see that when Sexton needed to be replaced on Saturday Schmidt didn’t have enough confidence in Jackson to bring him on.

Hanrahan is only 6 months younger than Jackson, has a 93% kick rate this season, scores and sets up try after try, wins the MOM in at least 50% of the games he plays in and is obviously the real deal.

With Sexton’s move to France having an obvious effect for the worse and the WC next year Schmidt would want to sort out the no 2 out half position even if it means dictating to the provinces who plays / kicks.

ME-109 wrote:Seems the old Zee man on his own over the last three games has nearly carried more metres than the whole of the Irish backline, scored more tries, more defenders beaten (than the whole team) and off loads.... Only Cian Healy comes close....

He cant have he hasnt been playing international rugby. Who cares what he does in the Rabo. None of the top 5 try scorers in the Rabo are getting picked for their countries in the 6 nations.

There is more to six nations rugby than the odd flick and exuberant try celebrations.

MunsterMac wrote:I've no truck with rumours.

The fact is Zebo offers something that presently doesn’t exist in the Irish squad.

He's very skilful, is clocked as the fastest current Irish international and has that x-factor as shown against Wales last year.

I've noticed reading the papers & forums since Saturday that his name is coming up more and more as people begin to realise that he has something to offer.

He still isnt as good as Tommy Bowe.

MunsterMac wrote:Another player who has a lot to offer is JJ Hanrahan but unfortunately because of the way he has been handled over the last 2 years he is not in a position to be called up.

It’s especially irritating when you see that when Sexton needed to be replaced on Saturday Schmidt didn’t have enough confidence in Jackson to bring him on.

Hanrahan is only 6 months younger than Jackson, has a 93% kick rate this season, scores and sets up try after try, wins the MOM in at least 50% of the games he plays in and is obviously the real deal.

With Sexton’s move to France having an obvious effect for the worse and the WC next year Schmidt would want to sort out the no 2 out half position even if it means dictating to the provinces who plays / kicks.

Yes JJ is improving all the time. Young player of the year a couple of years ago and proving to be a real prospect. He has a good box of tricks too.

Guns,

I'm a huge fan of Tommy Bowe but he and Zebo are very different types of players.

Plus Bowe is injured at the moment and Zebo isn't.

The Ladyboy doth protest too much...

ME-109 wrote:The Ladyboy doth protest too much...

"doth protest too much" I thought you were a redneck DOD? Where did you learn to talk like that?

GunsGerms wrote:

MunsterMac wrote:I've no truck with rumours.

The fact is Zebo offers something that presently doesn’t exist in the Irish squad.

He's very skilful, is clocked as the fastest current Irish international and has that x-factor as shown against Wales last year.

I've noticed reading the papers & forums since Saturday that his name is coming up more and more as people begin to realise that he has something to offer.

He still isnt as good as Tommy Bowe.

Nor as good as Dave Kearney, Andrew Trimble, Luke Fitzgerald or Fergus McFadden but sure everyone loves a good conspiracy theory  .

Great result yesterday. Thought James Cronin was outstanding but in scrum and in the lose. Overall big performances in the pack from Casey, DR, Dave Foley and Coughlan. Defence was immense at times.

Of the backs Zeeman was class especially in defence and Andrew Conway stood out (and not just for the Nidge haircut).

MunsterMac wrote:Another player who has a lot to offer is JJ Hanrahan but unfortunately because of the way he has been handled over the last 2 years he is not in a position to be called up.

It’s especially irritating when you see that when Sexton needed to be replaced on Saturday Schmidt didn’t have enough confidence in Jackson to bring him on.

Hanrahan is only 6 months younger than Jackson, has a 93% kick rate this season, scores and sets up try after try, wins the MOM in at least 50% of the games he plays in and is obviously the real deal.

With Sexton’s move to France having an obvious effect for the worse and the WC next year Schmidt would want to sort out the no 2 out half position even if it means dictating to the provinces who plays / kicks.

I think JJ has been handled very well and Munster & Ireland will do very well because of how well he has been handled. Penney/Mannix have let him get on very nicely developing his all round skills without putting too much pressure on him. How much confidence will he get from his place kicking (33 from 36 this season in the Rabo). That is something he will never have to worry about if he can nail it at this stage of his career.

It is also good to see that Keatley (who I think is a confidence player) has also improved so we have two good OHs who are both getting a fair crack at things - all boats are rising rather than one going up and the other going down.

I feel sorry for Jackson - I think he has been messed about because he really can't be trusted internationally unless he gets to take responsibility for every time he plays and not have a crutch (Pienaar) to fall back on.

BlueMuff wrote:Great result yesterday. Thought James Cronin was outstanding but in scrum and in the lose. Overall big performances in the pack from Casey, DR, Dave Foley and Coughlan. Defence was immense at times.

Of the backs Zeeman was class especially in defence and Andrew Conway stood out (and not just for the Nidge haircut).

Zebo's defence was excellent - managed to shore up Andrew Conway's wing a few times!

I also think Felix Jones is really getting to be the player he was before all his injuries again which is good to see. Signing a new contract has given a confidence boost to CJ - think he was trying too hard there for a while.

Sin É did you hear anything on the rumour from Leinsterfan about Sheriden being signed from LI? Havent seen anything on it myself.

I'm sorry Sin I can't agree on JJ.

If he had been handled properly he would now be the Irish no 2 out half.

Everything that has been asked of him so far in his career he has done with ease including taking the 10 shirt at short notice for the u-20 at the WC and consequectly being shortlisted for player of the tournament.

As I said earlier his kicking, defending, try scoring, try setting up (eg Sunday v Ospreys) etc has been top notch.

Dan Carter made his debut for NZ at 21 and by 22 he made the position his own.

I see no reason why JJ couldn't have been the Irish no 2 at this stage if he had been handled correctly.

I think he has basically been a victim of circumstance being behind ROG and the man they brought in to replace him last season and Munster feeling they have to play Keatley this season.

JJ is ready to be No.1 for Munster (if you're good enough your old enough). Regarding Ireland that is a different kettle of fish altogether. He is probably too flash for JS.

ME-109 wrote:JJ is ready to be No.1 for Munster (if you're good enough your old enough). Regarding Ireland that is a different kettle of fish altogether. He is probably too flash for JS.

Its not about being flash rather than having the right attitude. Being from Kerry I've no doubt JJ has the right attitude. He ticks a lot of boxes so Im sure his time will come.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:JJ is ready to be No.1 for Munster (if you're good enough your old enough). Regarding Ireland that is a different kettle of fish altogether. He is probably too flash for JS.

Its not about being flash rather than having the right attitude. Being from Kerry I've no doubt JJ has the right attitude. He ticks a lot of boxes so Im sure his time will come.

Dont you have a Leinster thread to show some man love to Jaime or some other l'boy instead of making inane comments on here or stick to the English/Ireland thread (you were doing well digging a big hole for yourself concerning your comments on Joubert)...

Very aggressive ME-109. Try to stay focused on the topic.

Who is Jaime by the way? Is that some Spanish international I have never heard of?

That's my point, his time should have come already.

He should already have a few caps to his name and we would all be happy that we have a 10 on the bench who we can rely on when his time comes.

Instead we have a 10 on the bench who can't kick reliably and who the coach doesn't trust to bring on.

MunsterMac wrote:That's my point, his time should have come already.

He should already have a few caps to his name and we would all be happy that we have a 10 on the bench who we can rely on when his time comes.

Instead we have a 10 on the bench who can't kick reliably and who the coach doesn't trust to bring on.

Well if ROG had retired a year earlier maybe JJ would be further on as you say but sometimes you have to wait for your break sometimes you just get lucky with injuries etc. O'Gara had very few injuries so it was hard anyone under him to get game time.

MunsterMac wrote:That's my point, his time should have come already.

He should already have a few caps to his name and we would all be happy that we have a 10 on the bench who we can rely on when his time comes.

Instead we have a 10 on the bench who can't kick reliably and who the coach doesn't trust to bring on.

Considering the coach doesnt trust his No.2 or No.3 (given he shafted him as well) cant say the confidence would be high. Also similar to what he has done to Luke Marshall...

So dramatic Dod

Yeah Guns too true. What I meant to say was the coach has given his No.3 OH a list of things to improve on (except he cant get on the pitch with the other guy said coach brought in). Same with Luke Marshall...pick him for one game and drop him from the matchday squad completely with a clear list of things he needs to improve on (apparently being liked by BOD is one of them)