Won the lottery?

First topic message reminder :

The title is a phrase beloved of dear old Trussman, and is generally used by him to describe the Mike McCallum left hook that separated Don Curry from his senses.

Of course, I fundamentally disagree with the implication in this case, since McCallum was boxing his way into the fight and causing Don serious discomfort to the body when the KO came, but there have undoubtedly been occasions when it is the only description of a fight-ending punch. There have been times when a fighter is apparently on the verge of being stopped or losing a landslide decision, only to turn the fight his way with a Hail Mary blow (as opposed to a well-constructed attack).

Of these, the most obvious examples to me are LaMotta beating Laurent-Dauthuille with a few seconds left in their fight, Mike Weaver's last gasp pole-axing of John Tate, Iran Barkley's eyes-closed haymaker to see off Hearns, Julian Jackson's piledriver to prevent Herol Graham from claiming a seemingly inevitable victory and the astonishing punch that turned Jorge Castro's fight against John David Jackson in his favour.

Any other examples, where blind luck, as against a skilful turning of the tide, has changed the destiny of a fight?

Rodney wrote:Was Holy not the man in ascendency at the point of fan man ?

It's a while since I've watched the fight, but from memory remember Bowe come steaming out the traps taking all the first 3 rounds, then the next 3 Holy really piling it on with Bowe looking gassed to hell.

Cheers Rodders

I only watched at the time so I might be remembering wrong but I thought that it was Holy who looked gassed. i am most probably [and usually] wrong on these things.

And this was my favourite last moment turnaround fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmzjhKeJhdc

Spoiler:

Holy had a heart defect back then apparently..........which screwed him against Moorer soon after........

Credence to the view Holy was helped more..

Adam D wrote:And this was my favourite last moment turnaround fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmzjhKeJhdc

Spoiler:

The pain of defeat right there. But why take your young kids to watch you fight?

Neither at the time nor since has there ever been the slightest shred of common consensus about Steele's call in Chavez-Taylor I, Silver! Truss articulates the widely held view that Steele was King's house referee and that the ending was therefore fishy. I sympathise with this to an extent, but when I think back to the physical condition of Taylor at the time and pair it with the drastic deterioration in Meldrick's later performances, not all of which can surely be attributable to disappointment alone, I have to think that the ref made the correct call.

If blame exists for the timing of the stoppage, I've always believed that it should be levelled at the ludicrous figure of Lou Duva, who was up on the ring apron, shouting the odds and distracting Taylor at a time when the fighter needed to be focusing on what Steele was saying to him. It gave Steele all the excuse he may have needed to call matters off there and then.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Neither at the time nor since has there ever been the slightest shred of common consensus about Steele's call in Chavez-Taylor I, Silver! Truss articulates the widely held view that Steele was King's house referee and that the ending was therefore fishy. I sympathise with this to an extent, but when I think back to the physical condition of Taylor at the time and pair it with the drastic deterioration in Meldrick's later performances, not all of which can surely be attributable to disappointment alone, I have to think that the ref made the correct call.

If blame exists for the timing of the stoppage, I've always believed that it should be levelled at the ludicrous figure of Lou Duva, who was up on the ring apron, shouting the odds and distracting Taylor at a time when the fighter needed to be focusing on what Steele was saying to him. It gave Steele all the excuse he may have needed to call matters off there and then.

Tough one.......Probaly made the right call but to me he seemed to rush the decision which would suggest he noticed the lights...I mean referees tend to ask them to walk a few steps before making a huge decision..........and one can't be sure he stopped it for the right reasons..

All water under the bridge now.........

I have to say that my memory of the Fan Man fight was that Bowe really looked to be taking control before the intervention. He'd started that seventh round brilliantly, getting that fantastic jab going with some real smoothness and pop. Holyfield looked a little out of ideas, to me, and I think the break did him a world of good. Bowe, on the other hand, seemed to lose all of his momentum and flow afterwards.

In terms of those kind of timely (or not timely, depending on which fighter you are!) interventions, then Toney-Tiberi is a good example, I reckon.

After (if memory serves) the fifth round, Toney was already looking ready to collapse and could hardly even walk back to his corner unaided. Then, for some reason, the referee and Tiberi's corner decided that one, and then both, of Tiberi's gloves needed changing. Locating some new gloves took a little while and, at a time when Tiberi had all of the momentum, it bought Toney a much-needed break of about five minutes which he spend recuperating and taking advice from Bill 'Pops' Miller in his corner. After that, in the sixth and seventh rounds, Toney seemed (albeit temporarily) refreshed and had his two best rounds of the fight.

He lost his way again in the late stages, of course, and the decision was still an absolute stinker (even Fat Toney himself, never the most gracious, has admitted that he got "a gift"), but that lucky break gave Toney a chance to bank a couple of rounds which he wouldn't have done otherwise, and those rounds probably just about convinced the one-eyed judges to allow him to keep his title.

Had it not been for that additional rest and the two rounds which followed, Toney would surely have lost by an even bigger margin, so big that the judges couldn't save him the way they eventually did. Dare I say it, Miller may even have had to think about pulling him out, because Toney really did look like he was running on fumes.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Although I agree with both of your contributions, az, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have read the whole of my preamble to this thread! Quite understandable, of course....

I wouldn't worry about it, he only reads about boxing, never watches it and is too lazy to spell a fighters name so just uses AK, LM, LP when discussing them.

When Adam knows more about boxing than you, you know you're in trouble..........only jokin Adam!!

ONETWO mentioned Khan vs Garcia there, not too sure about that one. Garcia felt what Khan had for 2 rounds then blew him all over the place like a gusty wind.

I wouldnt say that was luck, but accuracy to catch him with that sledgehammer of a shot.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:ONETWO mentioned Khan vs Garcia there, not too sure about that one. Garcia felt what Khan had for 2 rounds then blew him all over the place like a gusty wind.

I wouldnt say that was luck, but accuracy to catch him with that sledgehammer of a shot.

I must have watched a different fight..

What? So you are comparing Garcia's win to wins such as Chavez vs Taylor??

Leonard vs Hearns I?

I am a Marquez fan but I would also argue that Marquez vs Pacquiao IV would come into this category. Things weren't looking too good for Marquez in that fight until he pancaked Pacquiao, it WAS NOT a lucky punch though, perfectly timed and perfectly executed.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Although I agree with both of your contributions, az, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have read the whole of my preamble to this thread! Quite understandable, of course....

I wouldn't worry about it, he only reads about boxing, never watches it and is too lazy to spell a fighters name so just uses AK, LM, LP when discussing them.

When Adam knows more about boxing than you, you know you're in trouble..........only jokin Adam!!

I'm inside your head.

You love it

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:What? So you are comparing Garcia's win to wins such as Chavez vs Taylor??

What???.......

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:You love it

BoxingFan88 wrote:Leonard vs Hearns I?

I am a Marquez fan but I would also argue that Marquez vs Pacquiao IV would come into this category. Things weren't looking too good for Marquez in that fight until he pancaked Pacquiao, it WAS NOT a lucky punch though, perfectly timed and perfectly executed.

I have re-watched Pacquaio vs Marquez 4 about 5 times now and this myth that Marquez was well behind and needed a KO is silly. I had him 2 points down at the time of the stoppage in the 6th. Its a 12 round fight, what if he was 2 down, there was another 6+ to fight for.

His game plan was to draw Manny in and catch him with that right hand. He could have tried for 12 and failed to land it, but it took him 6 rounds to do it, all part of the gameplan. Its this nonsense that has people calling for an unnecessary 5th fight. (not nonsese from you, but a few who go on about it).

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:What? So you are comparing Garcia's win to wins such as Chavez vs Taylor??

What???.......

I think we might have crossed wires Truss, what are you on about?

azania wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:You love it

Julian Jackson v Herol Graham
Carl Thompson v Seb Rothman
Danny Williams v Mark Potter

DAVE667 wrote:Julian Jackson v Herol Graham
Carl Thompson v Seb Rothman
Danny Williams v Mark Potter

Reebornm- Im a Pacquiao fan, and I dont think he was that far ahead in the fight on points. But... Marquez had a concussion and a broken nose, he was physiologically in a bit of a bother. Halfway through a fight with a concussion is very dangerous. Good punch though.

Floyds KO of Ortiz wasnt a hail Mary, but it was absolutely shocking real-time

Jackson v Graham is a good call..........

I thought so!

kingraf wrote:Reebornm- Im a Pacquiao fan, and I dont think he was that far ahead in the fight on points. But... Marquez had a concussion and a broken nose, he was physiologically in a bit of a bother. Halfway through a fight with a concussion is very dangerous. Good punch though.

Look at Tim Bradley, he was concussed in the 1st round in his last fight and still pulled it off. Marquez had more senses than that in the 6th round after he made it to the bell in the 5th.

After the fight was over he looked alright. I just think people are using that 5th round as a stick to beat Marquez with a bit. So he had a bad round, Manny had a bad 3rd round and an even worse 6th. Again, Im not saying this to you, just in general when this fight gets brought up

captain carrantuohil wrote:I thought so!

Butt licker

Are you..

A good recent one surely has to be Froch v Taylor?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Pretty sure Gatti had a lucky escape against someone but as I am at work can't check on it.

That was against Wilson Rodriguez, both eyes swollen shut but he found a left hook that just ended the fight.

Definitely not "beating him with a stick", I was just saying that there could have been some serious damage. The guy didnt even know what had happened when he got to the hospital.

Didnt know about the Bradley concussion so fair enough, but theres a reason most pro sports dont allow concussed competitors to keep playing.

Back to topic- I never saw the Froch-Taylor incident anyone have a link?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Are you..

Depends if its clean

kingraf wrote:Definitely not "beating him with a stick", I was just saying that there could have been some serious damage. The guy didnt even know what had happened when he got to the hospital.

Didnt know about the Bradley concussion so fair enough, but theres a reason most pro sports dont allow concussed competitors to keep playing.

Back to topic- I never saw the Froch-Taylor incident anyone have a link?

Froch Dominated the 2nd half of the fight and the score cards were very close, it was not the one punch turn around some would have you believe, he wore Taylor down then finished him in the 12th.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Neither at the time nor since has there ever been the slightest shred of common consensus about Steele's call in Chavez-Taylor I, Silver! Truss articulates the widely held view that Steele was King's house referee and that the ending was therefore fishy. I sympathise with this to an extent, but when I think back to the physical condition of Taylor at the time and pair it with the drastic deterioration in Meldrick's later performances, not all of which can surely be attributable to disappointment alone, I have to think that the ref made the correct call.

If blame exists for the timing of the stoppage, I've always believed that it should be levelled at the ludicrous figure of Lou Duva, who was up on the ring apron, shouting the odds and distracting Taylor at a time when the fighter needed to be focusing on what Steele was saying to him. It gave Steele all the excuse he may have needed to call matters off there and then.

Tough one.......Probaly made the right call but to me he seemed to rush the decision which would suggest he noticed the lights...I mean referees tend to ask them to walk a few steps before making a huge decision..........and one can't be sure he stopped it for the right reasons..

All water under the bridge now.........

Thanks for that, chaps - very informative!

bellchees wrote:

kingraf wrote:Definitely not "beating him with a stick", I was just saying that there could have been some serious damage. The guy didnt even know what had happened when he got to the hospital.

Didnt know about the Bradley concussion so fair enough, but theres a reason most pro sports dont allow concussed competitors to keep playing.

Back to topic- I never saw the Froch-Taylor incident anyone have a link?

Froch Dominated the 2nd half of the fight and the score cards were very close, it was not the one punch turn around some would have you believe, he wore Taylor down then finished him in the 12th.

He was behind a lot on 2 score cards and needed a ko for the win which he got with 10secs to go

Some might argue Lennox was taken out with a lottery winning punch at least once.

I don't think froch 'dominated' the second half of the fight, he came back into it as Taylor gassed. Bit like chavez Taylor, not a lottery punch because it was looking increasingly likely, but certainly a victory snatched from the jaws of defeat.

Both Laing jones fights might be worth a bingo shout.

Strongback wrote:Some might argue Lennox was taken out with a lottery winning punch at least once.

Guess they happened a bit early to turn the tide of the fight strongback... But regardless, there are those that will tell you that having your eyes closed and not looking where you're throwing a punch, isn't lucky, if its part of your strategy. Moot point.

Matthew Saad Muhammad (although, at the time I think he was Matthew Franklin?) stopping Marvin Johnson in the 12th round of a fight in which, although not utterly one-sided, Matthew was still well behind in, going in to the last.

Good shout, Gentleman. That fight between Saad and Johnson is the closest thing I can think of to the Chavez-Taylor scenario, whereby the fighter who had won the most rounds and only needed to survive the last round to win a sound decision was, somehow, taking more punishment and was in much worse shape physically. A brilliant fight and the one which really announced Saad's arrival in the big time. I've said before that Mavin Johnson would have benefitted greatly from a Super-Middleweight division which wasn't around in his time, and that fight showed why. THe sheer physicality and strength of Saad was just too much in the end.

What a fight.

... Think most of matt franklin/ saad Mohammed's fights could fit in this thread... Didn't call him miracle Matthew for nothing.

I might have got this wrong but wasn't Danny Williams getting beat by potter (I think) before dislocating his shoulder and knocking him out

froch taylor