Ali Williams retiring from All Blacks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meH4lUyQQlg&feature=youtu.be

Ali Williams has just announced he is retiring from the All Blacks. Great player and also a character
over the last 10 years for the all blacks.
Still going to carry on playing club rugby, what are others views on him?

He just became very attractive to french clubs

Not the best timing to cheer this but one player at the test level who's well passed his used by date...by a year or two at least.... finally come to his senses...

Taylorman wrote:

Not the best timing to cheer this but one player at the test level who's well passed his used by date...by a year or two at least.... finally come to his senses...

that's no way to acknowledge on of your own.....even as a nh fan i recognise his contribution to AB rugby!

In my opinion the All Blacks should have dumped him a while ago, it's poor for their brand that they relied on an ageing injured ineffective lock. Now they need to clear out the rest of the old guard - McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Mealamu, Woodcock and Weepu if they are to keep up with the youthful rebuilding programme bearing such fruit for the likes of England!

I think you'll find beefy we don't run much on sentiment in NZ. It's a ruthless environment where reputation doesn't excuse you from performance. It is definitely time for him to retire and I will give him credit for bringing the axe down on himself. I remember when he went to England to a lower division team just to get match fit for the World Cup. That is the commitment to the jersey we admire. But now it's time for him to step aside for the new locks coming through. We're a cheery lot, aren't we?!

in his prime he was one of the best all rounded lock in the world : good in all aspects of the 2nd row game being powerful, mobile and also more than decent in the air.

well, that was before he met Chabal though

speaking of which from ur own team who would u want to retire . being Welsh i can't think of one because they all fairly young and the older guys are lions . i would have said Jenkins but fair play to the guy he played well against England

I'd like to see some clips of Williams against Bakkies

Decent test player but no probably not quite a great.... had one of the best teams around him and played in historically NZ's weakest position. He did the most with his talent though and thats all you can ask. He achieved a lot and should be immensely proud.

When you look at modern great locks such as Johnson, Eales, Matfield, Bakkies, Giffin, Brooke, Andrews & Thorn he looks a little out of place.

Probably in the 2nd tier with O'Connell, Pelous, Sharpe, Shaw & Hines.

Over his whole career you're probably right FA. Over 2005-08 he was right up there though, made the Lions look like lambs in '05.

Nice tribute from the granny Herald here
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10885879

...

His various off-field antics over the years have divided opinion. For a minority, he's been a refreshing point of difference - a blast colour in a world of grey. For the majority, it seems, he's been a hard act to like - a David Brent figure, strangely convincing himself of his comedic genius while others watch on and cringe.

But those on both sides of the divide can presumably find common ground on Williams the player. He destroyed the Lions in the first test in 2005. He was the only man in silver who held up in the 2007 World Cup quarter-final and in 2008 he wasn't so much better than Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha, but a kind of hybrid those two couldn't subdue.

He had four seasons - 2005-2008 - when he was world class: a towering force who could sit alongside the likes of Andy Haden, Ian Jones, Gary Whetton and, yes, even Colin Meads. Williams, in that period, was that good.

The shame is that serious injury in 2009 that repeated in 2010 has distorted the picture. It's easier to conjure images of Williams not quite imposing post-injury than it is to remember him dominating some of the best locks in world rugby before his Achilles and various other bits gave up the ghost.
...

Was possibly NZ's best player in the debacle (everyone knows what game I'm talking about) and absolutely dominated the Lions lineout in 05. Guy was a bit different and a refreshing change from the media trained robots spouting out cliche after cliche. Plus NZ did the right thing by tapping into his knowledge.

GE NZ introduced a hell of a lot of new players last year and are looking to do the same. McCaw, Carter and Smith had stellar seasons and are not only the incumbents but are among the greatest players ever in their positions. A few of those you mentioned are past their best but they'll be on the chopping block soon enough.

We don't give a toss about the brand either mate. That takes care of itself. We care about the team.

Too true Disney. No player is bigger than the team. Even the greats. When it's time to go you just go. The reminiscing happens long after if you're good enough. But the legacy is the team not the individuals who comprised it.

this what I meant by "all-round" 2nd row: a kind of hybrid who was not the level of Botha and Matfield who were possibly the best partnership ever but those guys were specialised (and as a result quite complimentary).

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think you'll find beefy we don't run much on sentiment in NZ. It's a ruthless environment where reputation doesn't excuse you from performance. It is definitely time for him to retire and I will give him credit for bringing the axe down on himself. I remember when he went to England to a lower division team just to get match fit for the World Cup. That is the commitment to the jersey we admire. But now it's time for him to step aside for the new locks coming through. We're a cheery lot, aren't we?!

wow, so you are saying that respecting an AB great is 'sentiment'? hardly, can't see you all being so dismissive when Richie and Dan starting slowing up! williams is acting gracefully, shame the fans aren't.

100%beefy wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think you'll find beefy we don't run much on sentiment in NZ. It's a ruthless environment where reputation doesn't excuse you from performance. It is definitely time for him to retire and I will give him credit for bringing the axe down on himself. I remember when he went to England to a lower division team just to get match fit for the World Cup. That is the commitment to the jersey we admire. But now it's time for him to step aside for the new locks coming through. We're a cheery lot, aren't we?!

wow, so you are saying that respecting an AB great is 'sentiment'? hardly, can't see you all being so dismissive when Richie and Dan starting slowing up! williams is acting gracefully, shame the fans aren't.

Beefy we are already questioning the merits of those two. For me the biggest problem with overseas sides is they keep their players in the mix well past their best. Smith of SA the latest example. But the NH hemisphere do it all the time. How many versions of JW have there been through the years where hes been average to poor at the top level.
And with Ali whats annoyed me is the selectors kept Ali on far too long. Even this time he was selected for this years squad and Ali has had to pull the cord on himself because the selectors were too blind to. I mean who gets selected to an AB training camp and decides there he's not good enough? Havnt seen it in my days. Why did the selectors not see what we al know?

For me I just wasnt a fan of Ali's since he started going off the boil a few years ago. He replaced form with his mouth and for some reason seemed to call his own shots- and is still doing it. Poor form of the selectors to let it get to this point.

Taylorman wrote: He replaced form with his mouth and for some reason seemed to call his own shots- and is still doing it. Poor form of the selectors to let it get to this point.

It seems you're kinda irritated that he got to make the call on his own retirement and should have been beaten to it with a sacking?

I understand what you mean when you see a player outliving their usefulness, but New Zealand hardly suffered adversely because of it.

Beefy I said that I admired his decision to quit because the selectors seemed incapable of pulling the plug. But it was time to go and it is the best thing for the team that he goes. The same will happen to McCaw and Dan just as it's happened before to other long serving players. It may seem disrespectful to you but that's the environment. Ruthless. No passengers. Don't perform don't expect favours. The accolades come later.

Yeah its a bit embarrassing for the selectors in my opinion. They pick him, then he decides theyre wrong. go figure...

He was unbelievable at his peak. Brilliant. He'd be one of the first selected. Then the injuries struck and the game left him behind somewhat. Still, the selectors trusted him for the World Cup and last year, and his experience would have been valuable for the youngsters coming through. Even though he was past his peak, he didn't let the side down (except perhaps for the Irish test in Chch where his ill discipline almost cost us the match)

dallym wrote:He was unbelievable at his peak. Brilliant. He'd be one of the first selected. Then the injuries struck and the game left him behind somewhat. Still, the selectors trusted him for the World Cup and last year, and his experience would have been valuable for the youngsters coming through. Even though he was past his peak, he didn't let the side down (except perhaps for the Irish test in Chch where his ill discipline almost cost us the match)

and now apparently he is of no use, so should be treated like such a used up disposable commodity by 'fans'...its pretty sad when they dress it up as they have here....10 yrs service 70 plus caps, RWC winner (eventually). apparently it's a SH thing.

No beefy...its definitely a NH thing to slag players off. These boards are full of it. And you havnt had to sit through at least two years of Ali flashing himself in front of the media, full of excuses for this or that, speaking out of turn on the field. he's had his time. Move along...

move along?
Ali might have been dropped but i haven't...as for your suggestion that it is a NH thing to 'slag players off' as you so eloquently put it i would rather be critical of a player during his career, than be so disdainful of a retiring great. that's just poor.
Sure you might regard him as a media mupp or whatever but the guy is an AB and deserves at least your respect rather than this.
Since you finally have what you want and say is overdue, the gentlemanly thing would be to acknowledge his contribution to the game and the team, which even us lowly NH fans can see is enormous- not just concentrate on the fact he is past his used by date and celebrate him retiring.

Nice WUMming attempt there beefy

You write his eulogy then beefy. A tearful little nunber. stop. all the clocks. Yada yada. We prefer to look at the living and the young players Ali helped develop. You see it as callous. We see it as the circle of life. Death is just the beginning.

I am surprised that Ali Williams as left as late as this too retire to be honest.

When he got injured 18, month 2 years ago and played for Nottingham, i believe he should of retired from international rugby then.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:You write his eulogy then beefy. A tearful little nunber. stop. all the clocks. Yada yada. We prefer to look at the living and the young players Ali helped develop. You see it as callous. We see it as the circle of life. Death is just the beginning.

i totally understand there is no point responding to this so i will leave it to your coach

"He is a player who has always worn his heart on his sleeve, he is a real character who loved being an All Black and wearing the jersey proudly and representing his country, and that's what we love about him," All Blacks coach Steve Hansen said in a statement.

"He would have played a lot more games for the team if injuries hadn't robbed him of the opportunity.

"But it took a lot of courage to come back to top-flight rugby and that is a measure of the man and shows just how much he loves the game."

Yep, and Hansen is in the position you would like us all to be in. He's required to say those sorts of things and the reality is he stuffed up selection wise. Ali had no right to be in this side. The other locks are clearly outplaying him and Sam Whitelock made him look silly last week versus the Saders. It was starting to get into joke territory. I said goodbye to Ali several years ago hence my move along comment.

Good on you beefy. Fair play to you. Those were nice words. I especially like the last part as that showed what being in a black jersey meant to Williams.

But my point is that a player who has played for so long in a black shirt has already been celebrated. His accolades come during his career. We can all look back on somebody's career like Fitzy, Cullen, Lomu, Meads etc but when a long serving player bows out it shouldn't be an occasion for mourning the loss of that player. The show goes on and the legacy Ali Williams leaves is wrapped up in the legacy of the AB team.

We saluted Ali when he was playing. Seeing him selected made a mockery of his AB career because injuries did rob him of his best and the selectors should've realised that. He went out on his own terms and I salute him for that as he recognised what the selectors could not. He is just affirming what many fans already thought: it was time to go. Saying how much we admired him when he was playing and how much we're going to miss him does him and the team a disservice. No player is bigger than the team. Of course his experience will be missed and of course he was an integral player for many years in a position we often find it difficult to cover. But the team goes on without him and there is no need to add anything further. It's already been said when he was playing.

Hey guys dont be tough on Ali, at the moment he seems to be the only lock we have in the town.

All the more reason to find other options Laurie. I think Romano and Retallick can do the job but they need to know without Ali or Whitelock they need to step up their performance to fill the void. They can't be carried or nurtured by a senior player. Their settling period is officially over. Time to step up and be accounted for.

Personally Kia I really struggle to understand how come Craig Clark hasnt been pulled into the squad, yes I agree with you that Romano and rettalick can cover the 4 and 5, but if craig Clark isnt the number 3 lock in NZ (SW injured) at the moment then I truely should give the game up.

Can't remember the Hurricanes lock called up but it does seem surprising. Unless they want to see what he has to offer and know Clark is best concentrating on the chiefs.

This is the sort of thing I mean about headline grabbing...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8722144/Williams-issues-challenge-to-Blues-team-mates

Besides the fact that we have both Kirwan and GH in the news for ranting at refs/ team now we have the additional luxury of Ali also hogging the spotlight preaching about his teams performance etc etc immediately after his sobbing exit from the AB's last week. He's done this sort of thing several times and just doesnt back it up.

If anyone needs to be dropped from the last couple of games he's right up there on the list, but you don't see him offering up his spot as was so obvious for him as an AB.

I just wish he'd bite the bit and let his actions on the fields 'with the ball' rather than the mouth, make the difference for once. He's played ok this year for the Blues but certainly nothing to write home about.

Let's see where all this leads with his next performance- my money's on 'Ali gets frustrated', 'Ali backchats ref once too many times' being up there with the post mortem of the next Blues match.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Can't remember the Hurricanes lock called up but it does seem surprising. Unless they want to see what he has to offer and know Clark is best concentrating on the chiefs.

Jeremy Thrush? Never heard of him Nd was presuming he was some new secret weapon.

Good player for the Canes. He's come on well over the last 12 months and is a hard worker in both the tight and loose. He and Clarke would be ample support for Retalik and Romano given the chance..

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Personally Kia I really struggle to understand how come Craig Clark hasnt been pulled into the squad, yes I agree with you that Romano and rettalick can cover the 4 and 5, but if craig Clark isnt the number 3 lock in NZ (SW injured) at the moment then I truely should give the game up.

Clark is going to be departing NZ. No point in throwing test matches his way when a couple of months later he'll no longer be in our system.


yes SBW is a precedent, but SBW is awesome!!! and is likely to come back for 2015

Where's he off to dally? Japan as well? Getting to be a bit of a concern...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Where's he off to dally? Japan as well? Getting to be a bit of a concern...

Clark's off to Connacht Kia

Cheers Pete. Bit steep for Ranger to get out of that contract. Hope he's able to do it.

Williams was a very good player with a rather large gob. I agree that he should have gone after the World Cup but in his prime he was an absolute force of nature. He won't be knocking Pinetree off any 'greatest ever' polls but not to recognise he was excellent as player does him a disservice.

Now he will be put out to grass with Racing Metro who will doubtless pay him one gazillion Euro to inspect rucks and stick his tongue out at le press.

Nobody's dissing him as a player GC. The tension in this thread comes from the fact Kiwis are generally happy to see him pull the plug on his career. That's not to say he wasn't a great lock for NZ. Just his time had come and that doesn't detract from his AB career.

He also really looked like he enjoyed the haka.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Nobody's dissing him as a player GC. The tension in this thread comes from the fact Kiwis are generally happy to see him pull the plug on his career. That's not to say he wasn't a great lock for NZ. Just his time had come and that doesn't detract from his AB career.

Wouldnt be surprised if he plays a blinder this week and because of Sam W's absence rethrows his hat back into the mix. He'll be fretting over the bad timing of that announcement- 24 hours before our premier lock is ruled out...watch this space...this time, I think it might be the right move... to keep Romano and Ratalick on their toes.

Ha I was thinking the same thing Taylorman. But in reality he hasn't been good for a long time and then giving away stupid penalties has almost made him a liability. Well played but good bye and good luck. We'll be saying the same to Mealamu, Hore, Carter, McCaw and Smith in the next few years too. No big deal.

Yeah agree, it'd be hypocritical to put himself back in the mix ("Oh, I'm not good enough- last week... but..hmmm...I think I am now").

But its also Ali, he'll be aiming for a huge game this week to allow him to get away with a backtrack- he'd lose all credibility if he announced it now...