Scottish Pro team thread

by 123456789 Mon 27 May - 17:50

First topic message reminder :

There doesn't seem to be much going on but I thought it might be an idea to set up a thread devoted to transfers, coaching news and general new information to do with the Scottish pro clubs over the summer

by Weegie Wizard Tue 16 Jul - 9:03

I think Edinburgh's first team is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.
They are one or two players away from having a 1st XV as good as most teams in the league. Admittedly they do not have enough depth to challenge this year or possibly next but with a decent coaching team (!?) and the resulting confidence Edinburgh should finish above Treviso Connacht and the like.

Just as we should remeber the lack of progress with Glasgow in the HC and not get carried away, we should realise that Edinburgh are not far from being a decent side.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 9:06

Weegie Wizard wrote:I think Edinburgh's first team is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.
They are one or two players away from having a 1st XV as good as most teams in the league. Admittedly they do not have enough depth to challenge this year or possibly next but with a decent coaching team (!?) and the resulting confidence Edinburgh should finish above Treviso Connacht and the like.

Just as we should remeber the lack of progress with Glasgow in the HC and not get carried away, we should realise that Edinburgh are not far from being a decent side.

You should post on here more often! Hug

by tigertattie Tue 16 Jul - 9:17

what does MFL actually stand for?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 9:55

Mighty Fantastic Legends

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 10:02

Going back to ASBOs point, I do think the closeness of Edinburgh to the SRU blazeratti is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. The right coach could change the culture, I'm sure of that. Last season the players were just complacent, and the concentration levels on the pitch were woeful. We never played with any intensity and our lineout and restarts never functioned. Most of the time it was unclear what Edinburgh were actually trying to do!

The 1st XV for next season isn't a bad side. One or two additions are needed, but overall it's a decent XV, and certainly good enough to compete for the top half of the table. But the defence needs sorting, as does the lineout. Basic errors cost us a bunch of games last season, and we nearly always conceded points immediately after scoring. Concentration was poor in defence, and that comes down to poor squad culture, ethos and work ethic.

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 10:05

tigertattie wrote:what does MFL actually stand for?

For reasons lost in the swirling damp mist of time, I seem to recall that it stands for Metrosexual Festival Luvvies. The general rationale is that Edinburgh remains the team for those supporters who have proper wicker picnic baskets and are not afraid to exfoliate.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 10:18

Who seriously does not own a proper wicker picnic basket??

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 10:19

RDW_Scotland wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:there's no way that Zebre can be as bad as they were last year, maybe you'll drop to bottom after all!

Christ I hope not! Concerned about Connacht - they've recruited very well this year and are starting to build something.

Agree with that

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 10:22

funnyExiledScot wrote:Going back to ASBOs point, I do think the closeness of Edinburgh to the SRU blazeratti is a problem, but not an insurmountable one. The right coach could change the culture, I'm sure of that. Last season the players were just complacent, and the concentration levels on the pitch were woeful. We never played with any intensity and our lineout and restarts never functioned. Most of the time it was unclear what Edinburgh were actually trying to do!

The 1st XV for next season isn't a bad side. One or two additions are needed, but overall it's a decent XV, and certainly good enough to compete for the top half of the table. But the defence needs sorting, as does the lineout. Basic errors cost us a bunch of games last season, and we nearly always conceded points immediately after scoring. Concentration was poor in defence, and that comes down to poor squad culture, ethos and work ethic.

I think confidence is a massive issue at Embra - they're a team that is simply not using to winning, so when the tide turns in a match, they're missing the mental fortitude to get them back in the mix - the experience of winning should be a key criterion in any new recruitment

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 10:24

Connacht will improve, and so will the Dragons. Not looking forward to watching Talei play against us.

Whilst I have little beef with the signings of Dickinson and Walker, I don't think our squad is any stronger this season than it was last. In fact the loss of Talei probably renders us weaker at present. I don't think Lutui and Cuthbert will add much, if anything.

At the moment we're going backwards. It's all going to hinge on this new coach, but already it's getting too late for him to have much impact this season. He needed to control the pre-season and sort out the summer signings. I suspect we're in for a lost season whilst he assesses the squad.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 10:31

Weegie Wizard wrote:I think Edinburgh's first team is nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.
They are one or two players away from having a 1st XV as good as most teams in the league. Admittedly they do not have enough depth to challenge this year or possibly next but with a decent coaching team (!?) and the resulting confidence Edinburgh should finish above Treviso Connacht and the like.

Just as we should remeber the lack of progress with Glasgow in the HC and not get carried away, we should realise that Edinburgh are not far from being a decent side.

Ach, but it's no fun if we can't pull their collective plonker - they're such a sensitive shower after all!! Wink

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 10:34

Get back to painting yer roads!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 10:37

funnyExiledScot wrote:Get back to painting yer roads!

Yes sir :doffscapbowsheadandwalksaway:

by tigertattie Tue 16 Jul - 10:44

at 100 years of age, asbo should not be doing manual labour these days!!!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 10:48

He's remarkably spry for an elderly gentleman. I suspect real ale has a preserving quality to it if you drink it in sufficient quantities.....

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 10:50

funnyExiledScot wrote:and so will the Dragons. Not looking forward to watching Talei play against us.

I really hate games against the Dragons - for some reason they are our bogey team (like Glasgow and Connacht) and every time we lose is a kick in the nuts that we are a team that loses to them instead of gives them regular pumpings.

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 10:58

funnyExiledScot wrote:Get back to painting yer roads!

You might need our newly painted roads whilst you're waiting for your tram. Run

I do think that this will be a 'rebuilding year' for Edinburgh, after which they'll need to make a decision about whether to keep a number of senior players or sell them on and start from the bottom again.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 11:34

Anyway, I don’t know what all the fuss is about – I won the Heineken Cup with Edinburgh last night on the new Jonah Lomu rugby game on the PS3, beating Toulon in the final! If they can do it on a computer game surely they can do it in real life?

Saying that, I may have altered the playing stats of the Edinburgh players slightly….although to be fair as the game was made by Kiwis they obviously don’t have a clue who the Edinburgh players are.

For example Denton was rated as 46 (out of 100) and was an openside flanker and Lee Jones had suddenly moved to scrum half!

Think it’s fair to say by the time I was done Denton was a one man wrecking ball, Matt Scott was Sonny Bill-esque and Lee Jones was a speed demon who could catch the ball and tackle! May have overdone it with Harry Leonard though, he’s now got the same rating as Sexton…

by tigertattie Tue 16 Jul - 11:44

RDW_Scotland wrote: Lee Jones was a speed demon who could catch the ball and tackle!

surely there needs to be some realisim in the game?

Lee Jones!

Catch a ball???

Tackle???

he's no called the Selkirk Sissy for nothing!

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 12:17

tigertattie wrote:
surely there needs to be some realisim in the game?

Nick De Luca knock-ons a lot - there's your realism!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 12:19

I remember the original Jonah Lomu game - for some reason Kenny Logan was awesome. I often wonder who compiles the data for these things.

Lee Jones probably should move to scrum half. With a week of basic skills training he'll probably have a quicker and more accurate pass than Laidlaw, and he's got decent pace. Plus he was so terrible on the wing last season that he really can't be any worse at 9!

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 12:21

The original is one of my favourite games ever - I used to give the ball to Jonah, run through the entire team handing off everyone, then run through them all again to score!

Of course the great Bill McLaren commentary helped too!

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 12:22

I've always thought Jones' best position was as the fairy on top of the Ediburgh club Christmas tree.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 12:30

Don't think we'll be able to afford a Christmas tree this year. Plan is to paint Jack Cuthbert green and wrap him in tinsel instead. That's actually the real rationale for signing him.

by 123456789 Tue 16 Jul - 12:59

In general Glasgow have an experienced Scottish player in each position and a younger Scottish player in each position as well as a few very good foreign players, i.e in the second row they have Ryder, Kellock and Swinson as well as Jonny Gray. Whereas Edinburgh just have a random collection of players. They need to sign a lot of young Scottish players who will provide depth over the next few years as well as an experienced fly-half, an outside centre, a strong second row and some props.

by EWT Spoons Tue 16 Jul - 13:09

I think this should have been a development year for Edinburgh, but I think we are going about it the wrong way. This should have been the time where we look to the future and bring in players (either already in the squad/ EDP etc or players from outside the club) who are going to form the bedrock of the side going forward. Instead we seem to be recruiting for either the right now or the past (Lutui might have made sense a couple of years ago, or even a 1 year contract)

I think in reality this is going to be a holding year for Edinburgh, unless we get a head coach in soon, who can stand up to the blazers at MF and put a stop to whoever’s signing players at Edinburgh. However I fear that ship is getting closer and closer to sailing and may potentially be too late for him to make a difference at this stage. I mean the league will KO again in around a month, so during that time we need to get a coach, they need to come in and assess the squad and see how they want Edinburgh to play, where the strengths/weaknesses are and what if any players they want to bring in. Then they need to get the squad up to speed with game plans and the style of play. That’s a lot to do in 4 weeks, and given the wall of silence coming from Edinburgh, I have no idea if we are even close to getting a Head coach.

I really hope I’m wrong about all this, and I’ll probably be full of optimism the moment a new coach is appointed.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 13:11

Agreed 123456789.

The new coach at Edinburgh needs to quickly assess his squad and start addressing squad composition. There should be a senior Scottish player and a young Scottish player in each position, with a small number of NSQs to address key positions/reflect when a top class NSQ player becomes available.

The has been no sign of strategy at Edinburgh when it comes to signing players for a number of years. Whilst Glasgow and Lineen seem to be signing each player with a designated purpose, Edinburgh just seem to take anyone who comes along. As a result there are only a small number of positions in the Edinburgh side where I'm content with both the starting player and the depth:

2. Ford, Lawrie, Lutui and Walker
3. Nel, Cross and Allen
5. Cox, VDW and MacAlpine
7. Rennie, Grant and Watson
9. Laidlaw, Kennedy, Leck and Hidalgo-Clyne
15. Tonks, Brown and Cuthbert

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 13:16

Depends entirely what Edinburgh's appetite is to bring SQ players back home.
Think of the signings you could make if you were willing to stump up the dosh.

For example, if Edinburgh could sign Hamilton, Gray, Brown, Grove, Allan and Shiells that would go a hell of a long way to rectifying their problems.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 13:19

If we signed even two of those players, I'd perform a victory dance around my proper wicker basket!!

Hamilton and Strokosch are the two old boys I'd pick to return, plus Tommy Allan would be extremely handy.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 13:41

Right enough of this Edinburgh bashing - what do the Weegies think of the season ahead?

I personally fear for Glasgow - it really was a monumental feat last year to win the number of games they did, and I'm just not sure if they will manage to do it again. Despite a strong squad they are still a few injuries away from being short in some positions (6, 8, 12) and there's still question marks at 10.

Teams will also be targeting Glasgow and Glasgow will have to carry the expectation of being favourites for most games - something the Scottish psyche doesn't cope well with.

So I may be proven wrong, and indeed I hope I am, but I just think a top 2 place is probably out of reach, and a top 4 finish again would be a significant achievement.

Unfortunately I also can't see much progression form the HK group, especially since Connacht and Zebre are in a HK group together again, pretty much guaranteeing one of the other teams qualifying as best runner up.

Scotland needs successful pro teams though and I really hope Glasgow can maintain their momentum and Edinburgh can at least gain respectability - will do wonders to the national team.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 13:56

Agree - second season syndrome looming for Toonie. Key factors are as follows:

1. Grant, Hogg and Maitland will have Lions fatigue having featured so heavily on the tour.

2. Wilson, Cusiter, Weir, Jackson and Horne are all broken.

3. Kellock's thesis on ruck inspection is due at the end of this season in order to complete his phD on the aforementioned topic.

4. Mike Cusack and Tim Swinson will leave for Edinburgh after Glasgow are whitewashed in the 1872 Cup citing that they "want to train with real men".

5. Mark Bennett will flop.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 14:07

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agree - second season syndrome looming for Toonie. Key factors are as follows:

1. Grant, Hogg and Maitland will have Lions fatigue having featured so heavily on the tour.

2. Wilson, ~~Cusiter~~, Weir, Jackson and Horne are all broken.

3. Kellock's thesis on ruck inspection is due at the end of this season in order to complete his phD on the aforementioned topic.

4. ~~Mike Cusack and Tim Swinson will leave for Edinburgh after Glasgow are whitewashed in the 1872 Cup citing that they "want to train with real men"~~.

5. ~~Mark Bennett will flop.~~

Right, young man, go and wash yer mooth oot wi soap. I've fixed a few glaring attrocities on your generally keich list, altho am sure there are more. Cus is back in pre-season training, rebuilt and raring to go; Jacko and Weir will be ready at the start of the season; Cusack and Swison would fit in over at the MFLs as badly as a paedo at a pantomime. MB is angel

Shocking effort furious

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 14:08

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agree - second season syndrome looming for Toonie. Key factors are as follows:

1. Grant, Hogg and Maitland will have Lions fatigue having featured so heavily on the tour.

Truly exhausting to pick up skelfs in your arse sitting on that bench.

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 14:13

Just in case any non-Scottish posters are wondering:

1. Average Glasgow Fans:
Scottish Pro team thread - Page 9 Glasgo10

2. Average Edinburgh Fans:
Scottish Pro team thread - Page 9 Edinbu10

I'm just saying.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 14:14

Right, young man, go and wash yer mooth oot wi soap.

Any chance one of you Weegie's could lend me some (Jenners is being re-furbished at the moment)? Sorry, stupid question....

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 14:15

Ah, good to see my good friends Benedict, Cecil, Pip, Hugo and Humphrey in that pic George!

by GLove39 Tue 16 Jul - 14:27

Speaking of the sop dodgers, apparently the latest series of 'School of Hard Knocks' was filmed in Glasgow. Wondering any of the Warriors will make cameo appearances?

by 123456789 Tue 16 Jul - 14:28

I think Glasgow will do very well although I do think the decision to let Barclay go may end up haunting them although Fusaro is a very good player and Holmes is an unknown quantity but with Cusiter coming back there will be no shortage of experience. Dunbar and Bennett should form a very effective centre partnership and with Lamont, Van Der Merwe, Hogg, Seymour, Maitland and Murchie covering the back three there should be very few issues out wide at least until the international window. Fly-half may be an issue until Weir, Jackson and Horne come back from injury but Wight and at a stretch Hogg will be more than capable of covering, at nine Cusiter, Pyrgos and Matawalu will have an interesting fight for the shirt.
In the back-row we should be all right, Ryan Wilson, Richie Vernon and Josh Strauss will cover eight, again an example of Wilson an up and coming Scottish player, Strauss a very good NSQ who can also cover Blindside and Vernon an experienced Scottish international (somehow) although Wilson is ahead of Vernon in the pecking order in Scotland and Adam Ashe is a very promising prospect as well. At openside we might be a wee bit bare after Barclay's departure but Fusaro is a very good player and I've no idea about Holmes but there's also Will Bordill coming through. Rob Harley is the kind of player Edinburgh need and Strauss can easily cover blindside as well as James Eddie who can cover all three and Second row if necessary. Second row is very well covered with three experienced players in Kellock, Swinson and Ryder and Jonny Gray who may break through this season. The front row is well covered with Hall and MacArthur at hooker and Gillies backing him up, and Ryan Grant, Jon Welsh, Moray Low, Ed Kalman and Gordon Reid as well as the new Fijian prop.

The good thing about Glasgow is that there defence is so good that even if there attack isn't firing they can scratch a win and with the likes of Al Kellock, Josh Strauss and Sean Lamont the other players aren't likely to let their standards drop whereas Edinburgh don't quite have the same leaders in their team that will drive the standards up and give the other players a kick up the bum.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 14:35

Numbers - Wilson is out for 6 months so at 8 there's only really Strauss, who is more of a 6 really, or Vernon who is a complete beanpole. Ash has promise but needs a year or 2 to develop physically.

So it will only take 2 injuries and Glasgow will be really struggling at 8. We can lend you Roddy Grant if you want...! Run

by 123456789 Tue 16 Jul - 14:37

RDW_Scotland wrote:Numbers - Wilson is out for 6 months so at 8 there's only really Strauss, who is more of a 6 really, or Vernon who is a complete beanpole. Ash has promise but needs a year or 2 to develop physically.

So it will only take 2 injuries and Glasgow will be really struggling at 8. We can lend you Roddy Grant if you want...!

So just to clarify Glasgow are in trouble because they only have three players covering one position?

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 14:40

No, if you read what I said earlier I think there are a few positions where the squad is still a little weak, and 8 is one of them. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that due to Scotland callups and injury Strauss and Vernon are unavailable. And Adam Ashe has basically no pro experience and is in clear need of physical development - not someone you want to rely on regularly.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 14:44

When they realise how rubbish Mark Bennett is, Vernon will be used at centre.

Still, Edinburgh are in a much bigger mess at 8. Behind Denton and McInally we're back with Roddy Grant at 8.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 14:45

Got Basalaia too FES - he had a disappointing first season but he definitely shows promise. Very robust carrier and tackler, just a bit rough round the edges with the rest of his game.

by 123456789 Tue 16 Jul - 14:48

RDW_Scotland wrote:No, if you read what I said earlier I think there are a few positions where the squad is still a little weak, and 8 is one of them. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that due to Scotland callups and injury Strauss and Vernon are unavailable. And Adam Ashe has basically no pro experience and is in clear need of physical development - not someone you want to rely on regularly.

But he'll develop pro experience only one way and surely the best time to do so would be during the international window rather when the other clubs are missing their big players, we need to trust the young players and maybe he'll turn out to be another Stuart Hogg.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 16 Jul - 14:55

RDW - true, I've been thinking of him though at 6. Basically we have Denton, Basilia and McInally covering two positions.

I'd take Glasgow's back row options over ours. Denton and Rennie may be top class players, but Strauss, Harley, Fusaro and Wilson are pretty handy, plus there's now Vernon and Holmes.

Basilia needs a big season. I liked what I saw last season, but Bradley just didn't give him a chance.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 14:58

I admire your optimism numbers, and if you think the Glasgow squad is bullet proof and they will have a relentless march to victory this season then fair enough. I'm more of a realist though and with Wilson injured look at the 8 position and see vulnerability. It's great that a young Scottish player is probably going to get his chance, but I'm not sure you can rely on that if you are aiming for a top 2 finish.

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 14:59

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah, good to see my good friends Benedict, Cecil, Pip, Hugo and Humphrey in that pic George!

That reminds me - there was a message from Torquil, Binkey and Crawford:
Pimms o'clock there tonight. Something about there being some 'fine fillies'...

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jul - 15:17

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah, good to see my good friends Benedict, Cecil, Pip, Hugo and Humphrey in that pic George!
That reminds me - there was a message from Torquil, Binkey and Crawford:
Pimms o'clock there tonight. Something about there being some 'fine fillies'...

You must have heard wrong GC - Pimms night is every Wednesday and 2nd Friday, unless Wimbledon or the Cricket is on, in which case Pimms night is dictated by committee with a 60% vote decider.

Monday nights we get in the Rolls and go laugh at poor people!

Also, Crawford is away in his gap yah so can't make it unfortunately.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 16 Jul - 15:27

Cue Billy Connolly skit

by **George Carlin** Tue 16 Jul - 15:40

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah, good to see my good friends Benedict, Cecil, Pip, Hugo and Humphrey in that pic George!
That reminds me - there was a message from Torquil, Binkey and Crawford:
Pimms o'clock there tonight. Something about there being some 'fine fillies'...

You must have heard wrong GC - Pimms night is every Wednesday and 2nd Friday, unless Wimbledon or the Cricket is on, in which case Pimms night is dictated by committee with a 60% vote decider.

Monday nights we get in the Rolls and go laugh at poor people!

Also, Crawford is away in his gap yah so can't make it unfortunately.

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