Only Lewis can rival Froch

Saw this on BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/22699848

I think Froch is correct. Lewis is overrated on these shores. I still think its close between Froch and Calzaghe though.

I think he is spot on about Ward and the entertainment side of boxing. Froch now should outrank Ward. He is he bigger name and he has proven himself b travelling. Ward still has to do that. Froch beats him in the UK based on his performances in his last few fights there.

World IBF super-middleweight champion Carl Froch says only heavyweight Lennox Lewis rivals him as the best British boxer.

Froch, 35, kept his title by claiming a thrilling points victory over Denmark's Mikkel Kessler in London on Saturday.

"The recognition has been a long time coming, but I'm getting the recognition I deserve now," Froch told BBC Sport.

"In Great Britain I'm number one. It's between me and Lennox Lewis, depending on how far you are going back."

Lewis was the undisputed world heavyweight champion and claimed victories over Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson and current WBC title holder Vitali Klitschko before retiring in 2003.

Andre Ward, who beat Froch on points in December 2011 in Atlantic City, could be the next opponent for the English fighter, but only if the 29-year-old American travels to Britain.

"If he comes to the UK there is a big chance of it happening," added Froch. "But he does not want to fight here, he has made that quite clear. He is waiting for me to go the States, but will be waiting a long time.

"He knows I will be at my best in Britain and he doesn't want to fight me at my best. He wants to fight me when I'm jet-lagged, against the crowd, against the judges and with everything in his favour.

"He said I would only be a great or a superstar if I fought in America, and I have done that. In the Super Six Boxing Classic I got to the final and lost a tight decision on points to him in America.

"That defeat has never hurt me as I felt I got pick-pocketed. It was more frustrating than hurtful."

Nottingham-based Froch has won 31 of his 33 contests and still wants to unify the division by winning the WBC belt.

"I'm a superstar in my own right, in my own country," said Froch.

"I can't think of any British fighter who can say they are more exciting than me because of the manner I conduct myself and my fighting style in the ring.

"Amir Khan and David Haye are involved in exciting fights but I have provided more frequent entertainment and I fight the best of the best.

"In the pound-for-pound rankings I'm in the top 10 in the world and, in terms of winning a fight, Andre Ward is number two.

"But on a pound-for-pound list for entertainment I would not put him in the top 20. It's an entertainment business and if you don't entertain you won't get any fights."

Hamed, Lewis, Hatton and Calzaghe were the men in their divisions....

Is Froch ???

Why should Ward come here anyway..........Wants a fighter that'll test him.

"In Great Britain I'm number one. It's between me and Lennox Lewis, depending on how far you are going back."

Very much the key sentence in all that.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

"In Great Britain I'm number one. It's between me and Lennox Lewis, depending on how far you are going back."

Very much the key sentence in all that.

He must have missed out that anyone Welsh with Italian heritage isn't included and that if you have a training camp in Cyprus you are also out of the vote.

"He knows I will be at my best in Britain and he doesn't want to fight me at my best. He wants to fight me when I'm jet-lagged, against the crowd, against the judges and with everything in his favour.

Try going over in plenty of time then, ya massive doughnut.

However, having criticised Ward for wanting home advantage, Froch implies that all he wants is for Ward to face him when he (Froch) is at his best, when Ward is jet-lagged, with the crowd against him, the judges against him andeverything in Froch's favour. Don't want much, do you Carl?

Calzaghe lost to Kessler...didn't you know??

Froch reminds of Larry Holmes sometimes.

Froch in "Calzaghe couldn't carry my jock" shock

Why was he only jet lagged for the Ward fight? He fought Taylor and Johnson in the states and never mentioned it once. Froch must have a book as thick as the yellow pages full of excuses.

If he actually thinks he got "pickpocketed" against Ward then he is deluded. He got made to look very ordinary, and very crude.

He's a PPV fighter now.......Show some respect!!

Sounds like Froch has been hanging out with Haye

Froch needs to hang out with Khan to get some humility. The guy is a grade A fool.

I just read on the comments on the bbc that froch v haye at light heavy that could go ahead! Brilliant

The version of Kessler that Calzaghe beat was far, far superior to the one that Froch has beaten and even Froch himself so that win alone keeps Joe a fair bit ahead of Froch in my eyes.

Saying things like this it seems he is still just trying to wind up Calzaghe.
If he was to beat Ward and then move up to Lhw and beat Dawson then I think he'd have a fair case to rank himself so high but until then he's beaten a passed it Kessler (who Calzaghe beat when Kessler was unbeaten and at his peak 6 years ago) and a poor champ in Bute. Best fighters he's faced he's lost against and that includes Dirrell.

Froch is clearly as deluded as Winchester. Where is Gordy when we need him?

He must have the tastiest feet in boxing, he seldom stops chewing on them.

The thing about Froch is, i quite like him when he's not talking about himself. But he hasn't quite worked out where the line between self belief and confidence, becomes arrogance and bragging. Someone ought to tell him, that compliments sound better when it's someone else saying them about you.

I don't think you can say that Froch lost to Dirrell out of hand like that, no matter how you look at it or try to spin it. If a result is clearly a stitch up, or a piece of gross incompetence on the part of the judges, then by all means discard the official verdict if overwhelming consensus is that it was a bad one. You'll never convince me that Roy lost to Park Si-Hun at the 1988 Olympics regardless of what the judges said, for instance, as the reality is he won by a mile and all you need is a working pair of eyes to see it. It brooks no argument.

Froch-Dirrell doesn't even get close to that category. You can make a case for Dirrell edging it, for sure, but you can just as easily make a case for Froch. He got a split decision in a very close fight which could potentially have gone the other way, and I believe the extremely split opinions on who deserved the nod in the aftermath (there was no landslide either way, or anything approaching it) were perfectly in line with that. Arguing that Dirrell is a cold, hard loss on Froch's record is off the mark.

... and that from a froch hater

I like Froch, because as boxers go he tended to be pretty honest and kept the bs to a minimun which was refreshing. Lately though he seems to have finally succumbed to the usual pr rubbish. I dont really mind his warrior/throwback/trenches routine because its actually grounded in truth but the stuff about the Ward fight up there is a genuine corker. That could have been co-written by Haye and Audley. He should enjoy the status he has now but if anything he seems increasingly insecure about what people think of him.

I said he lost and as opinion is split I'd put myself in the obvious bracket. Its all opinions and Im not trying to change anyone's.
To me Froch badly struggled with Dirrells speed and Dirrell did the much cleaner work throughout. Froch knew he was lucky there as you could see when the decision was called.

Ah right, apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick there, RP. Much like Calzaghe-Reid, the legend of Dirrell being 'robbed' has grown and grown with each subsequent Froch victory, you see, and while I agree wholeheartedly that Dirrell caused Froch all sorts of problems and that it could have gone the American's way, I have found it a bit irksome when some people put it in the blatant rip off category.

Personally, I thought Dirrell blew it by simply not fighting between rounds six and nine. There's a line between good, effective defensive work and simply not engaging your opponent, and Dirrell crossed it, and crossed it badly. From a styles point of view, he had the beating of Carl, I admit. I just don't think he quite matched it well enough with self-belief and industry on the night. In the final three rounds he really did show what he's capable of, but I think he just left it ever so slightly too late.

With the point deduction, I made it 114-113 to Carl but it really was a knife edge kind of fight. I remember being stunned that so few people in the crowd around at the Arena that night seemed concerned when the final bell rang - most seemed to be acting as if Carl had walked it. I, for one, was pretty nervous awaiting the decision.

A tight points decision against Ward? He was arguably 8-0 down after 8 rounds.

8-0 upon Richie woodhall's card

with a 10-8 round added in...

Maybe he's just trying to wind up Calzaghe as someone said above.


But it's more a response rather than Froch being proactive.


Of course, I'm referring to Calzaghe's comments about beating Ward as Froch's fight with Kessler drew near.

If only someone else had said it. All hell would have broken out here. Reasoned argument when it comes to Froch and rightfully so.

Boxers often talk rubbish.

He's still pumped after his Kessler win. Give it a few weeks and he will calm down as its abit ott at the minute.

azania wrote:Froch needs to hang out with Khan to get some humility. The guy is a grade A fool.

Hahaha it's nice when you take time to even laugh at yourself, thanks for that Az.

RanjitPatel wrote:The version of Kessler that Calzaghe beat was far, far superior to the one that Froch has beaten and even Froch himself so that win alone keeps Joe a fair bit ahead of Froch in my eyes.

Saying things like this it seems he is still just trying to wind up Calzaghe.
If he was to beat Ward and then move up to Lhw and beat Dawson then I think he'd have a fair case to rank himself so high but until then he's beaten a passed it Kessler (who Calzaghe beat when Kessler was unbeaten and at his peak 6 years ago) and a poor champ in Bute. Best fighters he's faced he's lost against and that includes Dirrell.

If he did all that he'd be COMFORTABLY ahead of JC!!

I agree TopHat, but as things stand he hasn't (and wont be Ward anyway) so cant see how he can rank himself so high unless he's on a wind up.

He's still below JC for me, but the gap's closing. Just don't see how he can leapfrog Joe given his ability and available opposition. Think he needs to ditch SMW and get a few wins (and Clev's strap) on his ledger at LHW to have any chance.

TopHat24/7 wrote:He's still below JC for me, but the gap's closing. Just don't see how he can leapfrog Joe given his ability and available opposition. Think he needs to ditch SMW and get a few wins (and Clev's strap) on his ledger at LHW to have any chance.

What?

Look, listen carefully. No, in fact, go on Boxrec, consider Joe C finest ten victories, then look at Carl Froch's last ten fights, look where they took place, who they took place against, who they themselves went on to face. Consider some more, think hard again about Joe, think hard again about his record.

And then come to your senses.

The title of this post was accurate, only Lewis rivals Froch, and if Froch beats Ward, then no one does.

Its funny how you never hear Messi or Nadal or Woods telling you how good they are and where they stand amongst their peers. I remember Woods being asked where he stood among the greats of the games and he replied that it was just good to be part of the conversation which I think is a great line and one he probably borrowed.
Now I've no doubt that these guys know exactly how good they are and have a very high opinion of their abilities....they just don't have to say it. Its the guys on the levels below greatness who seem to keep wanting to shout look at me, look at what I've done. Froch seems to be a classic example of this.
I don't dislike the bloke at all, as milky says when he isn't banging on about how good he is he seems like a good bloke. He should learn from the best and let others do his talking for him.
There is nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance, especially in a young guy. I see Callum Smith got some stick on here for being a bit mouthy which I thought was pathetic, he just clearly said he had goals and he thought he could achieve them. Selby seems another guy who is cocky but when you look at these guys fight that's maybe no bad thing, a bit like Naz at his best.
But when you are a seasoned "warrior" like Froch sounding off about how good you are just comes off as a bit bitter and twisted really.

Thing is, there are actually a couple of posters on here who have stated that, for them personally, Froch has surpassed Calzaghe already, so Froch's talk isn't always falling on deaf ears.

Beating Ward would probably do it for me, and if he added a rubber win against Kessler (just to put the rubber-stamp on his overall career superiority over the Dane's, for instance) to go with that then there'd be no question in my mind. But ultimately, I think Ward is all wrong and also a bit too good for Carl.

If a Ward rematch doesn't materialize, then going up to 175 and beating Dawson (or whoever is the Ring Magazine champion at the time) and adding one or two good victories there would also give him a genuine argument to be higher than Calzaghe, I reckon. Either way, he needs to become the generally-accepted number one in at least one of those weight classes to have any chance, really.

I appreciate that Calzaghe had Ring Magazine recognition in both divisions, but in fairness to Froch the Super-Middleweight class he's been a part of in recent times is better than the one Calzaghe prospered in, for my money. If Froch went up to 175 and relieved Dawson of his title, and then made a couple of successful defences against the likes of Pascal, Cleverly etc, then he'd be knocking at Calzaghe's door in terms of career record at least, methinks.

Ability wise, I cannot put Froch above Calzaghe. Legacy wise, Froch is still trailing and will do unless he beats Ward (not important where). But I prefer Froch as a fighter as he hasn't ducked anyone. I do agree with Diggers that harping about your own legacy comes across as very desperate and he needs to learn to live with his success and come across as more of a smug B*****d.

davidemore wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:He's still below JC for me, but the gap's closing. Just don't see how he can leapfrog Joe given his ability and available opposition. Think he needs to ditch SMW and get a few wins (and Clev's strap) on his ledger at LHW to have any chance.

What?

Look, listen carefully. No, in fact, go on Boxrec, consider Joe C finest ten victories, then look at Carl Froch's last ten fights, look where they took place, who they took place against, who they themselves went on to face. Consider some more, think hard again about Joe, think hard again about his record.

And then come to your senses.

The title of this post was accurate, only Lewis rivals Froch, and if Froch beats Ward, then no one does.

JC is 1-0 with a better version of a guy Froch is 1-1 with;
JC is two weight world champ
JC’s best victory (Hoppo) is better than Froch’s (Kessler?)
JC would beat Froch ‘prime for prime’
Nobody found a way to beat JC, 2 people have Froch.
Lacey-Bute cancel eachother out as victories.

Diggers wrote:Its funny how you never hear Messi or Nadal or Woods telling you how good they are and where they stand amongst their peers. I remember Woods being asked where he stood among the greats of the games and he replied that it was just good to be part of the conversation which I think is a great line and one he probably borrowed.
Now I've no doubt that these guys know exactly how good they are and have a very high opinion of their abilities....they just don't have to say it. Its the guys on the levels below greatness who seem to keep wanting to shout look at me, look at what I've done. Froch seems to be a classic example of this.
I don't dislike the bloke at all, as milky says when he isn't banging on about how good he is he seems like a good bloke. He should learn from the best and let others do his talking for him.
There is nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance, especially in a young guy. I see Callum Smith got some stick on here for being a bit mouthy which I thought was pathetic, he just clearly said he had goals and he thought he could achieve them. Selby seems another guy who is cocky but when you look at these guys fight that's maybe no bad thing, a bit like Naz at his best.
But when you are a seasoned "warrior" like Froch sounding off about how good you are just comes off as a bit bitter and twisted really.

NONE OF THE PEOPLE FIGHT FOR A LIVING!

davidemore wrote:

Diggers wrote:Its funny how you never hear Messi or Nadal or Woods telling you how good they are and where they stand amongst their peers. I remember Woods being asked where he stood among the greats of the games and he replied that it was just good to be part of the conversation which I think is a great line and one he probably borrowed.
Now I've no doubt that these guys know exactly how good they are and have a very high opinion of their abilities....they just don't have to say it. Its the guys on the levels below greatness who seem to keep wanting to shout look at me, look at what I've done. Froch seems to be a classic example of this.
I don't dislike the bloke at all, as milky says when he isn't banging on about how good he is he seems like a good bloke. He should learn from the best and let others do his talking for him.
There is nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance, especially in a young guy. I see Callum Smith got some stick on here for being a bit mouthy which I thought was pathetic, he just clearly said he had goals and he thought he could achieve them. Selby seems another guy who is cocky but when you look at these guys fight that's maybe no bad thing, a bit like Naz at his best.
But when you are a seasoned "warrior" like Froch sounding off about how good you are just comes off as a bit bitter and twisted really.

NONE OF THE PEOPLE FIGHT FOR A LIVING!

Here's a thought. Why don't you try and explain your point rather than simply using an emoticon at the end of your somewhat limited and shouty sentence.

You've clearly not spent much time with emore before, Diggers.....

TopHat24/7 wrote:You've clearly not spent much time with emore before, Diggers.....

Its not something I can say I'm looking forward to.

I agree with Davide, after all, Ali made a career out of rhyming about how good he is. Tyson told anyone who cares that he was cut from the same cloth as Louis, Johnson and Ali. Mayweather also isnt afraid to tell you how good he is. Boxers generally have looser mouths when estimating their greatness.

Is David Emore, or Davide More?

I think of him as a davide, pronounced as in David ginola. They have a bit in common... ginola was a suave, talented entertainer and a bit of a t**sser.

Like I said, they have a bit in common.


Only teasing davide...have a cuddly emoticon

(they're talking about you davide, never stop them...)

Is it just me or does the 'founder' Adam seem to have it in for the poet, emore?

We be beefing over beef. I be squashing the beef but he be going all west coast on my ass straight after. Like i did something i aint meant to have done, like i dissed his mumma!

Carl Froch. Can everyone just get behind him now? What's he got to do to persuade you lot, fight an actual lion?

He probably would.

I'm pretty sure just about everyone is behind him, Davide. The question isn't about the level of support he has, it's about his claim that only Lennox can possibly outrank him amongst modern British fighters (or in the past twenty-odd years, perhaps).

We're simply pointing out that it's a bit of a fanciful claim by Carl, is all. No need for you to start jumping around about it like some poncey hairdresser, fella!

Now then, bromance?

davidemore wrote:Is it just me or does the 'founder' Adam seem to have it in for the poet, emore?

Grown rather fond of Adam recently..

88Chris05 wrote:I'm pretty sure just about everyone is behind him, Davide. The question isn't about the level of support he has, it's about his claim that only Lennox can possibly outrank him amongst modern British fighters (or in the past twenty-odd years, perhaps).

We're simply pointing out that it's a bit of a fanciful claim by Carl, is all. No need for you to start jumping around about it like some poncey hairdresser, fella!

Now then, bromance?

I'll bromance the pants off you.

I said too much.

Carl can claim he is Jesus at the minute, why? Because he LOVES TO RUCK THE VERY BEST!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

davidemore wrote:Is it just me or does the 'founder' Adam seem to have it in for the poet, emore?

Grown rather fond of Adam recently..

Where exactly on your body have you 'grown' fond of Adam?

(Please not the middle stump)