Mayweather-Canelo

First topic message reminder :

Just announced!

Mayweather tweet - "I chose my opponent for September 14th and it's Canelo Alvarez. I'm giving the fans what they want. It will be at the MGM Grand."

Canelo tweet - "The top is close on September 14 there will be a new king!"

Thoughts on this fight? 2 fights in a row Floyd's delivered, would be a great way to reach 45-0. I always thought Canelo needed more experience despite the huge interest in this fight, and it will show!

p.s the weight's not been announced by either fighter but Fighthype have reported that it will be a jr. middleweight unification bout.

** Hey guys, I added a poll to this for early thoughts. Didn't want to start a new thread - Seanusarrilius**

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:Has there ever been a p4p no.1 who was a red top? Should help ginger kids in playgrounds all over the country.

Ward will become number 1 I expect should Canelo win..

Ward to become no 1 in the absence of Floyd or a Floyd loss.... I just fell out of my chair with surprise!!! Lool! I really can't believe this is Truss! I mean the old Truss had a few funny turns, but I don't think this guy is serious! has ur account been hacked again, perhaps by lil handsofstone!!!

All you've done is abuse and patronise me....................I should be bothered......

Still Mayweather is the first 36 year old athlete to be at his physical peak.............kudos to him.........

Something Ali, Holmes, Louis, Robbo, Leonard, Jones jr couldn't manage to do.......But enough now.

Come on Truss !!! I love u really!!! Ur a legend, you know that! You have outlasted all of us on this forum! But u know I have to give u lil smack when u get naughty, and I know u well enough to guess u are being a touch naughty here! A man schooled on the technical brilliance of Curry and Holmes knows the real deal! But in these days where I have no senioritta to keep me occupied, having a ding song with u does something strange in stirring my loins.... No homo!!! Love u kiddo

I wouldn't say past their best - Lampard is still banging in goals, maybe even better than when he was at West Ham?

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

Lampard doesn't start that often does he ??

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I wouldn't say past their best - Lampard is still banging in goals, maybe even better than when he was at West Ham?

lampard is no where near his peak of 05-09

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Zoomies posting style is potentially more annoying than Truss'! Because I write like this! Will you like it if I write like this?!?! LMAOOOOOOO

Although he is right in semblance - Truss you can't throw a generalisation at Floyd that he's past it at 36, he was impressive in his last fight. Showed no real signs of age. Same as Pacquiao, before he was KO'd he looked fresh, sharp and fast.

Athletes are getting more longevity at it stands Truss, look at Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Neville etc. All quality players well into their 30's, some into their late 30's!

I'd say Floyd has too much for Canelo, but he's not as much of a longshot as Zoomy seems to think.

Jabby!!!!! thanks for the English lesson!!!!!! Point taken!!!!!!!!!..... But even more thanks for comparing me to Truss who is a legend on this site. I might have a few spats with him, but I do respect and love the kid. What was your point again fella???? Lmaooooooooooo. All tongue in cheek! The one on your face obviously!

Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

What is wrong with you people? We have a Superfight to discuss!

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

Well done, you found Boxrec

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Lampard doesn't start that often does he ??

Expect he averages more than 36 minutes a match though. Several dozen times a year, not once or twice.

Seanusarrilius wrote:What is wrong with you people? We have a Superfight to discuss!

Oh come Sean this is fun! This is what a forum should be all about, entertainment.

We have a 36 and a half year old who has bought the T-shirt.. against an up and coming solid Mexican fighter who knows he has the keys to fame and fortune If he can pull it off..........

A Mexican fighter in his prime..........much bigger and a damaging cumulative puncher just ask Rhodes..........

Anybody who thinks this isn't a close fight is crazy..........He will hit Floyd and hurt him..

We've seen the best of Floyd........Have we seen the best of Canelo??

azumah HOF wrote:

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

They haven't gone on record though, have they? #thatsthepoint

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

By this logic I could make an argument for Audley Harrison being a knockout artist and for Lucas Matthyse being feather fisted.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

By this logic I could make an argument for Audley Harrison being a knockout artist and for Lucas Matthyse being feather fisted.

Any insider tips on the fight Jabby ???

azumah HOF wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:What is wrong with you people? We have a Superfight to discuss!

Oh come Sean this is fun! This is what a forum should be all about, entertainment.

Fair enough. Carry on!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

By this logic I could make an argument for Audley Harrison being a knockout artist and for Lucas Matthyse being feather fisted.

Any insider tips on the fight Jabby ???

Hahaaha

Never gets old

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

They haven't gone on record though, have they? #thatsthepoint

They have the. Chief exec has quoted the over one million mark to the press in interview including to Ben Thompson on fight hype, one the most respected boxing writers. What hasn't been announced is the final figures, but they have said it has topped one million.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mayweather is not at his peak, his power has vanished, he only wins UD's now.

Oh. Its you.

He never had "power" - I'm not sure you watch much boxing.

since turning 30 he has 1 ko in 9 wins. his 9 fights before turning 30 he had 5 ko's in 9 fights.

By this logic I could make an argument for Audley Harrison being a knockout artist and for Lucas Matthyse being feather fisted.

Any insider tips on the fight Jabby ???

I could be sparring with Mayweather in the leadup - I'll keep you posted

I believe Azumah............Guerrero's Mexican heritage accounts for 900,000 of the buys..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I believe Azumah............Guerrero's Mexican heritage accounts for 900,000 of the buys..

Does that mean we are friends again Trussy!

Azumah- I'm not saying that they are lying, but
again "Exceeding a million" without giving an
actual figure doesnt sit well with me. Dan Rafael
may be a dodgy boxing mind, but as a journo, I
cant recall him getting too many wrong. His
sources put the figure at 870,000. Prior to this they
have never been far off, to get it wrong by 130,000
would be shocking. Also with all the doubts
surrounding the actual figure, it is suprising that
Showtime still wont put out an official figure.

I've a hat to eat. I honestly thought this fight wasn't happening.

kingraf wrote:Azumah- I'm not saying that they are lying, but
again "Exceeding a million" without giving an
actual figure doesnt sit well with me. Dan Rafael
may be a dodgy boxing mind, but as a journo, I
cant recall him getting too many wrong. His
sources put the figure at 870,000. Prior to this they
have never been far off, to get it wrong by 130,000
would be shocking. Also with all the doubts
surrounding the actual figure, it is suprising that
Showtime still wont put out an official figure.

Just one health warning! rafael is very close to HBO camp and Arum, has history of conflict with mayweather camp and GBP. Lets see

Fair enough, but why wont they release the official numbers? After all, the Ortiz, Cotto, Mosley numbers were all released pretty swiftly.

azumah HOF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

They haven't gone on record though, have they? #thatsthepoint

They have the. Chief exec has quoted the over one million mark to the press in interview including to Ben Thompson on fight hype, one the most respected boxing writers. What hasn't been announced is the final figures, but they have said it has topped one million.

So they haven't gone on record then, have they??! They've merely hinted at and suggested a figure but have never gone firmly ON RECORD with an ACTUAL FIGURE.

NEW YORK — The Showtime boxing pay-per-view show headlined by Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Robert Guerrero last Saturday will surpass 1 million buys, Showtime Executive Vice President of Sports and Event Programming Stephen Espinoza told SI.com. Espinoza declined to give an exact figure but said “we’re very comfortable saying that the pay-per-view buys for Mayweather-Guerrero will definitely exceed 1 million.”


That was the quote from the top of the organisation . Lets see . If they get it wrong they will be compromised!

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

They haven't gone on record though, have they? #thatsthepoint

They have the. Chief exec has quoted the over one million mark to the press in interview including to Ben Thompson on fight hype, one the most respected boxing writers. What hasn't been announced is the final figures, but they have said it has topped one million.

So they haven't gone on record then, have they??! They've merely hinted at and suggested a figure but have never gone firmly ON RECORD with an ACTUAL FIGURE.

He's gone on record saying it is over 1 million.

But why cant he just release the official figure? Its been three weeks.

"There were early reports as early as Tuesday,
72 hours after the fight, about what the (PPV)
results had been, which is really way too early,
from my perspective, to speak meaningfully
about this," Espinoza said on Monday's
edition of The MMA Hour.
"So when enough data had come in that we
were able to speak meaningfully, which was
probably Friday, that's when we went ahead
and confirmed that we will definitely be over a
million buys. I'm not sure exactly how much
over a million it will be, whether it be a little or
a lot over a million, a lot of that depends on
how some of the lagging buys come in and
are reported over the next few weeks, but we
definitely hit the million buy threshold."

He said that over two weeks ago, yet there is still no figure

kingraf wrote:But why cant he just release the official figure? Its been three weeks.

"There were early reports as early as Tuesday,
72 hours after the fight, about what the (PPV)
results had been, which is really way too early,
from my perspective, to speak meaningfully
about this," Espinoza said on Monday's
edition of The MMA Hour.
"So when enough data had come in that we
were able to speak meaningfully, which was
probably Friday, that's when we went ahead
and confirmed that we will definitely be over a
million buys. I'm not sure exactly how much
over a million it will be, whether it be a little or
a lot over a million, a lot of that depends on
how some of the lagging buys come in and
are reported over the next few weeks, but we
definitely hit the million buy threshold."

He said that over two weeks ago, yet there is still no figure

I wouldn't get hung up over it! There are some Arum figures for Manny still shrouded in mystery. What I think is clear is that Floyd vs Canelo was needed now to marinating momentum in the 6 fight deal.

The PPV for Guerrero was poor, IMO. No way does Floyd make this fight at such short notice if he had decent numbers. If he had decent numbers v Guerrero he would take on a nother Guerrero type fighter in September and Canelo in May, but he has gone straight to Canelo. That tells me the ppv was poor v Guerrero.

Good news is we get a Superfight.

Guerrero was p4p no 8...that was a superfight.

The PPV for this will be huge, Alvarez is already a Mexican draw, gets big numbers - Floyd is Floyd, he'll always get the numbers.

Cinqo de Mayo aswell?

Massive. Looking at 2 - 3 million buys in my opinion.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azumah HOF wrote:

kingraf wrote:Just to put it out there- FMJ-Guerrero PPV numbers have not been officially released. The only thing that keeps popping up is Showtime saying it "definitely exceeded a million buys" without a release. While they may be telling the truth, the fact is they offered Floyd 200m, so they cant have his PPV status questioned. Add in the fact that Floyds big fights are always Cinco de Mayo dates, and I think Floyd took this fight this year following a "suggestion"...

King I think its a stretch to far to suggest that the bosses at show time will go on record with a false hood. That would be very damaging. I think it is fair to follow their public statement that this tops one million buys! The late reporting of final figures is nothing new either. However I agree that the financial sense is that this fight happens now, Floyd fighting anyone else next because of his dominant display would invite a pay per view drop in figures.

They haven't gone on record though, have they? #thatsthepoint

They have the. Chief exec has quoted the over one million mark to the press in interview including to Ben Thompson on fight hype, one the most respected boxing writers. What hasn't been announced is the final figures, but they have said it has topped one million.

So they haven't gone on record then, have they??! They've merely hinted at and suggested a figure but have never gone firmly ON RECORD with an ACTUAL FIGURE.

He's gone on record saying it is over 1 million.

No, he hasn’t. I realise your standards are pretty mediocre when it comes to this kind of thing but most of us require more than idle hyperbole before we get all over-excited about things.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guerrero was p4p no 8...that was a superfight.

I should ban you for this comment, but I won't

Seanusarrilius wrote:The PPV for Guerrero was poor, IMO. No way does Floyd make this fight at such short notice if he had decent numbers. If he had decent numbers v Guerrero he would take on a nother Guerrero type fighter in September and Canelo in May, but he has gone straight to Canelo. That tells me the ppv was poor v Guerrero.

Good news is we get a Superfight.

Think poor would be over egging it a bit. What I suspect is that it is close enough to the million mark that it called into question the sense behind letting Canelo vs Mayweather brew further. I think the calculation was that to put Floyd in against someone the public were not clamouring for next would definitely not interest the public. There is no jail sentence to hang this one on! So the strategy had to change from Canelo being the culmination to going for Canelo now to maintain momentum.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guerrero was p4p no 8...that was a superfight.

Only in your eyes

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Cinqo de Mayo aswell?

Cinco de Mayo is 5th May, not 14th Feb.

www.freetranslation.com

Guerrero wasn't a superfight Truss, clutching at straws there. Superfights are where the PPV is almost guaranteed over 1million buys. This one seems to be under contention.

by that Logic- Bradley-Pacquaio was THEE SUPERFIGHT, then Truss

So If hagler-Hearns didn't sell it wouldn't have been a superfight??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So If hagler-Hearns didn't sell it wouldn't have been a superfight??

Moot point. The fact it was a super-fight meant it always would sell well.

Chicken and the egg situation....

It wouldn’t surprise me in the figures for the Guerrero fight dipped. He just wasn’t seen as a big threat or challenge. The only real case to be made for Guerrero winning was that Mayweather had become well past it. Outside of that it was impossible to see Guerrero winning. Even if the fight ended up close the judges would see Mayweather through.

Maybe the comments regarding Alexander or Canelo having to come to 147 were testing the water and they decided they needed to get things back on track by making the Canelo fight asap. If everything was hunky dory in terms of the ppv figures they may not have wanted the Alvarez fight immediately and waited for their usual Cinco de Mayo. But after the Guerrero fight was so one sided and generally not entertaining (for the average punter) the likes of Alexander or Garcia would be a harder sell and there would be a growing disinterest.

Also it would interesting to know how how much power Mayweather has had to give up over his opponents selections as part of his Showtime deal, if any. The fact he is fighting more regularly to me suggests Showtime have more of a say than HBO did as part of their giant contract with him. Im sure Mayweather would have preferred to take his standard year off and wait for next May.

Tyson v Neeley fetched over a million...so that's a superfight and two p4p warriors like May-Guerrero isn't..

ok.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tyson v Neeley fetched over a million...so that's a superfight and two p4p warriors like May-Guerrero isn't..

ok.

No, see earlier post.

'two p4p warriors', jesus christ....

Mayweather and Guerrero aren't p4p warriors ???

You just used 'warriors'... must be a Froch fan

Mayweather has never been a 'warrior', he's a master technician, an elite boxer, a purist, but not a warrior. And only you and the ridiculous recent Ring rankings have ever had Guerrero 'p4p'.

Few sane rational unbiaised people ever actually thought it was a real challenge or big fight. Like Ortiz.