England vs New Zealand 2nd ODI Rose Bowl

First topic message reminder :

Match will start at 10:45 am

glorious weather this morning at the rose bowl...

thread to discuss the match, enjoy

Plenty of 2's and 3's to be had out there, don't think Root really needed to go big so soon

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:

msp83 wrote:Joe Root has hold out, and I blame Jonathan Trott for that. The plodder, despite the 6 and all, has scored only 29 of 40.

I don't think you can blame Trott for poor execution of a shot by Root

Well, without hitting too many boundaries, Root had managed 28 at better than a run-a-ball. But because there was no similar proactiveness from the other end, he had to go for the big shot, They are chasing 360 for all its worth!.

Trott does need to pick it up, and so do England. It may be starting to slip. #postnumberfivethousand

Trott's not even scoring at 5 an over. And you can place only so much pressure on the others!.

Now Morgan feeling the scoreboard pressure and the pressure of the plodder being at the other end. Just gets away with it, and a much needed boundary for England.
And all those who say England can score 150 in the last 15 should remember that Jade Dernbach plays for England and not for New Zealand!.

Current run rate up to 5.8 an over but the Required RR has also gone up to 8.4.

True msp. Dernbache is a gift to any team, They must have laughed out loud at the poor selections when they saw that name on the list.

Lets see if some Paddy Power can get us moving...come on Morgan!

150 up for England at the halfway mark...still need to average 8.4 an over for the next 25.

50 up for Trott...off 62 balls. Not too shabby.

Under 200 needed for England now.

Required RR now up to 9.3 an over (197 off 21). Current RR is only 5.6.



Uh-oh...Morgan falls for 21, caught behind by Ronchi off Elliott and England are now 165-4.

Rrr is sky high now. Over 9.

Morgan gone. Ok partnership but again unlike the kiwis nobody can bat big and deep. It's all little cameos and bits and pieces.

Serious problems in this batting line up even without the dire dire bowling depth.

132 they got off there last 10.

Looks like we're gonna be needing the same. Unless Buttler does something unbelievable, I can't see it

Agreed trebell. Not much batting left and there is still an awfully long way to go. Still think we'll fall well short.

dyrewolfe wrote:50 up for Trott...off 62 balls. Not too shabby.

Under 200 needed for England now.

Required RR now up to 9.3 an over (197 off 21). Current RR is only 5.6.



Uh-oh...Morgan falls for 21, caught behind by Ronchi off Elliott and England are now 165-4.

England v New Zealand - A South African bowls to get an Irishman out, who's caught by an Australian.

Joking aside, these two probably need to bat to the end if we are to have any chance

Spoke to soon

Buttler gone after just 3 balls, scoring 2, caught by Guptill off McClenaghan.

England 169-5.

Game over...

And Buttler goes for 2

About 11 runs light so far, and we've probably lost one more wicket than we would have liked. Still there though if Trott remains.

Drat Buttler gone, England gone?

You can just imagine the team's response to this - no need to panic!

The truth is that half this team isn't good enough. Thank goodness we have some better players (nearly) ready to step back in.

All the experiments are failing. What depth?

Time sky tv commentators called it as it is and tell people they are probably ranked amongst the weakest heading into the trophy. Weak attack, weak batting, poor fielding,

Where do they go from here?

Poor captaincy, poor fielding, poor bowling (on the whole) and now poor batting = large defeat.

Another single figure score for Buttler adding to his already decent amount along with his untidy keeping. Clearly no one wants the keeper/batsman job for England.

Apparently Jos Buttler averages 10 from 8 one-day games. Who thought it was a good idea to stick him in the international side?

I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Get rid of the only one scoring runs. Good idea that...

Buttler is another player i think should return to Somerset now. I think he 100% has a future with England in all formats. But when going through a bad spell return him to county cricket to get his head back in the game, keeping him in the national could really affect him long term.

Bring back Prior i say. Always been a solid performer at this format of the game.

If Trott wasn't batting now, we'd be all out. Criticism of him, in this case, is ludicrous - you need someone to bat through.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Buttler is another player i think should return to Somerset now. I think he 100% has a future with England in all formats. But when going through a bad spell return him to county cricket to get his head back in the game, keeping him in the national could really affect him long term.

Bring back Prior i say. Always been a solid performer at this format of the game.

Agreed. I can't understand why he wasn't included in the ODI squad.

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Ha ha. If Trott is the villain what does it make most of the others.

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Get rid of the only one scoring runs. Good idea that...

No let him score 110 of 150 at over 4 an over, and blame the rest for failing to score 250 at 10 an over. Excellent idea.

Duty281 wrote:If Trott wasn't batting now, we'd be all out. Criticism of him, in this case, is ludicrous - you need someone to bat through.

Agreed. True, Trott probably could and should have scored more quickly, but you can't lay the blame for others getting out, at his feet.

dyrewolfe wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:Buttler is another player i think should return to Somerset now. I think he 100% has a future with England in all formats. But when going through a bad spell return him to county cricket to get his head back in the game, keeping him in the national could really affect him long term.

Bring back Prior i say. Always been a solid performer at this format of the game.

Agreed. I can't understand why he wasn't included in the ODI squad.

I agree. Time to bring Prior back. He can't be any worse than Butler.

Its wrong to criticize Trott for his innings as in theory he has batted well. However ...

Like i said the other night when Sussex were on the TV. Joe Gatting came in and batted well and sensibly and got a good score. But he was batting for his average rather than taking more risks in order to help the team out when runs are vitally needed, which is what Trott has done today.

msp83 wrote:

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Get rid of the only one scoring runs. Good idea that...

No let him score 110 of 150 at over 4 an over, and blame the rest for failing to score 250 at 10 an over. Excellent idea.

I believe Bell only got 25 off 32 balls which if my maths is correct is somewhere around 80 strike rate. Trott has 61 off 74 which is also around an 80 strike rate.

Where's the criticism of Bell?

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Get rid of the only one scoring runs. Good idea that...

Trott at least can bowl on occasion. I'd move him up 1 and ditch Bell when KP is back. Finn for Dernbach, broad for Bresnan and A.N. Other for Woakes and the balance improves. For whatever reason Enland have always underachieved in ODIs, but a full strength side should be capable of making the CL semis. Winning is probably a step too far.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Its wrong to criticize Trott for his innings as in theory he has batted well. However ...

Like i said the other night when Sussex were on the TV. Joe Gatting came in and batted well and sensibly and got a good score. But he was batting for his average rather than taking more risks in order to help the team out when runs are vitally needed, which is what Trott has done today.

Cook, Bell, Root, Morgan and Buttler all got out taking risks.

While I agree Trott could probably have made more of an effort to score quickly, if he'd done the same thing as his team mates, our innings would be over already.

You can't blame 1 man for the failures of 5 others.

If you want to blame one man for this defeat, blame Dernbach. 0/87.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

6 fingered tractor boy wrote:

msp83 wrote:I don't think a defense of Jonathan Trott is possible today. The team needed over 7 an over throughout the innings, its OK to get into a slowish start, but 15 20 balls, they have to get it going. Trott scoring under 5 an over rate after playing 65 balls, its just criminal. If he could step it up say, like a Virat Kohli who at times score 50 of 70, and then score 50 of the next 25, its understandable and defensible. England are without Kevin Pietersen, they don't have a proper batsman at 7, Buttler the wicketkeeper is only establishing himself, and here is Trott plodding along at 4.5 an over, and cares a damn about the pressure on the batsman at the other end. Criminal, I would say.
I have defended Jonathan Trott in the past, but I am absolutely convinced that when Kevin Pietersen comes back, Trott has to give way.

Get rid of the only one scoring runs. Good idea that...

Trott at least can bowl on occasion. I'd move him up 1 and ditch Bell when KP is back. Finn for Dernbach, broad for Bresnan and A.N. Other for Woakes and the balance improves. For whatever reason Enland have always underachieved in ODIs, but a full strength side should be capable of making the CL semis. Winning is probably a step too far.

This is what I would do also Pete

The last stand then, 156 needed from 15 overs.

BELIEVE IN THE TEAM

NickisBHAFC wrote:BELIEVE IN THE TEAM

I do. New Zealand FTW!!!


Woakes out for 13 - stumped. England 212-6.

The fat lady is warming up her vocal chords.

Woakes may be gone, but England will go onto the end.

God, this just gets worse!

Bresnan run out going for a suicidal run. England 213-7.

Smart fielding from NZ to be fair.

What are you doing Bresnan?

Well done NZ. good win..

we need to sort this out for the champions trophy

Duty281 wrote:Woakes may be gone, but England will go onto the end.

I don't think they have many other options.

The only good news is that the end is probably very nigh.

Been smashed in the cricket and no doubt we will get smashed in the football tonight

NickisBHAFC wrote:Been smashed in the cricket and no doubt we will get smashed in the football tonight

Chin up lad. England > Brazil

I suppose the only question now is can Trott get his 100 before the next 3 wickets fall?

We can still win this. Swann loves to attack with the bat, get the Kiwis on the back-foot and you never know!